Ok, so I've decided to embark my fighter on the sunder road.
So I now have improved sunder. I'm a bit curious as to what exactly my CMB will be for a sunder attac.
At the baseline I know I get BAB, strength bonus and the +2 from improved sunder. Do I get anything else? Do I get weapon focus, enhancement bonus from the weapon, or weapon training bonus?
Just curious.
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Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.
So Weapon Focus, Inspire Courage, and the like count toward your CMB to sunder.
Something to remember is that "sunder" doesn't mean you destroy it. You can choose to apply the "broken" condition to the weapon instead. Mending and Make Whole fix magical items with the broken conditions.
So you can still keep an item you sunder in one piece, you just have to get it fixed.
Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.So Weapon Focus, Inspire Courage, and the like count toward your CMB to sunder.
Something to remember is that "sunder" doesn't mean you destroy it. You can choose to apply the "broken" condition to the weapon instead. Mending and Make Whole fix magical items with the broken conditions.
So you can still keep an item you sunder in one piece, you just have to get it fixed.
THIS
OK, thanks for the information all. I did pick up an adamantine weapon immediately before taking the feat, so that's covered.
I'll keep in mind the broken option, though one of the main reasons for this direction is the sundering of holy symbols. Those aren't worth much, and if you take out the holy symbol the cleric becomes a whole lot less useful.
Are clerics (or Paladins) required to keep their holy symbol exposed? I know by the ‘stories’ they hold their holy symbol out and use it to power their spells/abilities, but per RAW, is it required to keep the holy symbol in the open when using spells/abilities, even with a Divine Focus?
If not, I believe ‘hidden’ items cannot be sundered, correct? And I mean hidden as in under vestments/armor.
I thought there were a few spells that needed a divine focus, at least for the cleric. But I could be wrong, as I am not intimately familiar with cleric spells in PF.
I thought there were a few spells that needed a divine focus, at least for the cleric. But I could be wrong, as I am not intimately familiar with cleric spells in PF.
Yes, all divine casters do have spells requiring Divine Focuses for some of heir spells (Holy symbol for clerics & paladins, and a sprig of holy or some other sacred plant for druids and rangers).
Ok, thanks.
Then my original questions still stand.
Yup, you have to present it to cast. However, it can be painted on shields, attached to helmets, or even be the weapon you are wielding. Depends on the deity.
At the baseline I know I get BAB, strength bonus and the +2 from improved sunder. Do I get anything else? Do I get weapon focus, enhancement bonus from the weapon, or weapon training bonus?
"When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver."
You get the +2 from your +2 Adamantine Swordhammer, you get the +1 from Bless, you get weapon training, etc. As long as it's applicable to the attack roll with the weapon you're using for the CM.
Here's what you add to CMD:
"circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC"
As for Sundering, remember that a broken holy symbol still works, you have to destroy it. (And broken weapons are just at -2, etc.)
Clerics and Paladins must present their holy symbol to channel (and repel a vampire) but for casting must only manipulate the focus. Whether this means they can reach into their breastplate and touch the symbol while flapping their other hand and chanting is up to the DM.
Ok, thanks. It does make sense in having to present it. The last thing I would do is put it on my armor, shield or weapon (unless I’m a Paladin and it is required by my order) as then you would lose that as well. Never was a big fan of Sunder from 3.5. Way too easy to lose a 80,000 GP item. And I believe it is not too much more difficult in PF.
Even if you build the item to protect against being sundered, the person building their character will always best you.
I thought there was also a trait that allowed you to have a tattoo as your holy symbol.
I thought there was also a trait that allowed you to have a tattoo as your holy symbol.
Birthmark (Source: Pathfinder RPG Character Traits 4)
You were born with a strange birthmark that looks very similar to the holy symbol of the god you chose to worship later in life. This birthmark can serve you as a divine focus for casting spells, and, as a physical manifestation of your faith, increases your devotion to your god—you gain a +2 trait bonus on all saving throws against charm and compulsion effects as a result.There's a rude joke about "Manipulating your Divine Focus" in there somewhere...
I thought there was also a trait that allowed you to have a tattoo as your holy symbol.Birthmark (Source: Pathfinder RPG Character Traits 4)
You were born with a strange birthmark that looks very similar to the holy symbol of the god you chose to worship later in life. This birthmark can serve you as a divine focus for casting spells, and, as a physical manifestation of your faith, increases your devotion to your god—you gain a +2 trait bonus on all saving throws against charm and compulsion effects as a result.
Yep, that’s it.
Now that I would consider non-sunderable as the person sundering can’t really see it (unless you put it somewhere that is exposed).
At least that’s how my DM has ruled it, as well.
Also, how can you ‘present’ a tattoo when casting a spell?
Pathos, could you please link to SRD or at least quote where it indicates you are required to present your holy symbol? Kind of curious as it contradicts the birthmark as a holy symbol.
All I pointed out is divine casters needed a divine focus for some of their spells, per you question of:
"I thought there were a few spells that needed a divine focus, at least for the cleric. But I could be wrong, as I am not intimately familiar with cleric spells in PF."
Now the rules do remain silent on the idea of components/focuses needing to be in hand/presented to cast a spell, it's one of those assumptions.
REFERENCE: HERE
As far as the Birthmark trait goes, I see it as nothing more than an alternative form of the Eschew Materials feat.
Now, if one is using their Channel Energy ability, it is quite plainly spelled out that you need to "present your holy symbol", as noted HERE (last line). Which I don't think the Birthmark trait actually covers.
All I pointed out is divine casters needed a divine focus for some of their spells, per you question of:
"I thought there were a few spells that needed a divine focus, at least for the cleric. But I could be wrong, as I am not intimately familiar with cleric spells in PF."
Now the rules do remain silent on the idea of components/focuses needing to be in hand/presented to cast a spell, it's one of those assumptions.
REFERENCE: HEREAs far as the Birthmark trait goes, I see it as nothing more than an alternative form of the Eschew Materials feat.
Now, if one is using their Channel Energy ability, it is quite plainly spelled out that you need to "present your holy symbol", as noted HERE (last line). Which I don't think the Birthmark trait actually covers.
Oh, you are right. I had actually meant to direct that towards Ender_rpm. Sorry about that.
And as for using the birthmark for Channel Energy, I can see your point in not covering it. But I know I would still at least ask my DM if it would be allowed. :)
All I pointed out is divine casters needed a divine focus for some of their spells, per you question of:
"I thought there were a few spells that needed a divine focus, at least for the cleric. But I could be wrong, as I am not intimately familiar with cleric spells in PF."
Now the rules do remain silent on the idea of components/focuses needing to be in hand/presented to cast a spell, it's one of those assumptions.
REFERENCE: HEREAs far as the Birthmark trait goes, I see it as nothing more than an alternative form of the Eschew Materials feat.
Now, if one is using their Channel Energy ability, it is quite plainly spelled out that you need to "present your holy symbol", as noted HERE (last line). Which I don't think the Birthmark trait actually covers.
Oh, you are right. I had actually meant to direct that towards Ender_rpm. Sorry about that.
And as for using the birthmark for Channel Energy, I can see your point in not covering it. But I know I would still at least ask my DM if it would be allowed. :)
Personally, I'd say no the trait being used in such a manner. If a player of mine wanted to have a tattoo/birthmark that acted as a focus and allowed to be presented for channeling energy, then they can burn a full feat on it. The tattoo/birthmark would also need to be in a place where it can properly presented when channeling.
Personally, I'd say no the trait being used in such a manner. If a player of mine wanted to have a tattoo/birthmark that acted as a focus and allowed to be presented for channeling energy, then they can burn a full feat on it. The tattoo/birthmark would also need to be in a place where it can properly presented when channeling.
I don’t think I would burn a feat for that tattoo if I could not bypass the requirement to present it. The whole point would be for me to keep it hidden (so it can't be targeted). But I can understand your viewpoint in how the rule is worded in having your holy symbol presented for Channeling.
Now, would you even allow with a standard holy symbol (for example, worn around the neck) to take it out and present to use Channel, then when your turn is done, put it back under your vestments, where it is not exposed?
I don’t think I would burn a feat for that tattoo if I could not bypass the requirement to present it. The whole point would be for me to keep it hidden (so it can't be targeted). But I can understand your viewpoint in how the rule is worded in having your holy symbol presented for Channeling.
Now, would you even allow with a standard holy symbol (for example, worn around the neck) to take it out and present to use Channel, then when your turn is done, put it back under your vestments, where it is not exposed?
By all means, that would be allowable.
Yup, you have to present it to cast. However, it can be painted on shields, attached to helmets, or even be the weapon you are wielding. Depends on the deity.
Just more targets to sunder.