I love a lot of you guys. I love this community. There are some people here that are a pain, and seem to revel in arguing and turning any discussion into a chance to prove they are right. That is sad.
On the other hand, I'm seeing some stuff that bothers me. I know some people can be annoying as Hell. But I'm seeing a lot of good people degenerating into vigilante trolling. I get the temptation, believe me.
But think about someone brand new to the boards . . . they aren't seeing the annoying guy being refuted by the great people on the boards. They are seeing an annoying guy being set upon by a lot of people that are being snarky back to him.
I know its hard, but I'd rather new people to the site get to know the awesome people I know by how they normally act then by them trying to run off a few bad elements.
Thanks all.
I take it that someone specifically set you off?
I love a lot of you guys. I love this community. There are some people here that are a pain, and seem to revel in arguing and turning any discussion into a chance to prove they are right. That is sad.
On the other hand, I'm seeing some stuff that bothers me. I know some people can be annoying as Hell. But I'm seeing a lot of good people degenerating into vigilante trolling. I get the temptation, believe me.
But think about someone brand new to the boards . . . they aren't seeing the annoying guy being refuted by the great people on the boards. They are seeing an annoying guy being set upon by a lot of people that are being snarky back to him.
I know its hard, but I'd rather new people to the site get to know the awesome people I know by how they normally act then by them trying to run off a few bad elements.
Thanks all.
I appreciate the effort on your part, but these threads never accomplish anything but to fuel more trolls. I should know, I tried to do the same thing during the Magus playtest.
I take it that someone specifically set you off?
Nah, its more like, I see posts from people I like, but when I read their post, its like "go away troll" instead of fun stuff, and even though the person the comment is directed at may indeed be a troll, I miss the good stuff.
I appreciate the effort on your part, but these threads never accomplish anything but to fuel more trolls. I should know, I tried to do the same thing during the Magus playtest.
Someone has to define "Quixotic." ;)
Someone has to define "Quixotic." ;)
I appreciate the effort on your part, but these threads never accomplish anything but to fuel more trolls. I should know, I tried to do the same thing during the Magus playtest.
Giant! Where?
*rides off to attack windmill*
Huh.
quix·ot·ic adj \kwik-ˈsä-tik\
: foolishly impractical especially in the pursuit of ideals; especially : marked by rash lofty romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous action
Learned something today.
Huh.
quix·ot·ic adj \kwik-ˈsä-tik\
: foolishly impractical especially in the pursuit of ideals; especially : marked by rash lofty romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous actionLearned something today.
And Knowing is Half the Battle!
Er . . . something like that . . . ;)
I don't have an ear to spare right now but if I find one I will gladly lend it to you :D
Huh.
quix·ot·ic adj \kwik-ˈsä-tik\
: foolishly impractical especially in the pursuit of ideals; especially : marked by rash lofty romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous actionLearned something today.
And Knowing is Half the Battle!
Er . . . something like that . . . ;)
The other half is usually violence.
Huh.
quix·ot·ic adj \kwik-ˈsä-tik\
: foolishly impractical especially in the pursuit of ideals; especially : marked by rash lofty romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous actionLearned something today.
And Knowing is Half the Battle!
Er . . . something like that . . . ;)
G.I. JOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In other news, KEJR, just keep on being you. You bring a lot of civility and interesting conversation to the boards, and that counters about 98% of the strollin' trollin I see here. Continue to be the change you wish to see in the universe(on the messageboards).
Huh.
quix·ot·ic adj \kwik-ˈsä-tik\
: foolishly impractical especially in the pursuit of ideals; especially : marked by rash lofty romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous actionLearned something today.
And Knowing is Half the Battle!
Er . . . something like that . . . ;)
G.I. JOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In other news, KEJR, just keep on being you. You bring a lot of civility and interesting conversation to the boards, and that counters about 98% of the strollin' trollin I see here. Continue to be the change you wish to see in the universe(on the messageboards).
Thank you. That was going to drive me crazy all day. Keep fighting the good fight. Yo Joe!
There are a lot of posters that may or may not get on people's nerves. Because this is a situation that I'm talking about, and not a specific person, it does no good to single out a particular person. That isn't what I'm talking about.
What I'm talking about is that, if someone seems to consistently be beyond any of a given person's personal capacity to communicate with, its probably best to try to avoid that particular poster, if at all possible, or ignore them, rather than to engage them in any particular manner.
I'm also imploring people that find this to be a good community with good people to communicate with to try and find those elements of the boards that are the best representation of this and do their best to make those threads examples of what you love about the boards, so that new posters will see what all of us saw when we first started coming him.
If you saw any other intent in my initial post, I apologize for any lack of clarity on my part, and I would enjoin you to participate in the spirit of this thread and accentuate the positive aspects of Paizo's community.
Thank you for your participation.
I agree with what you are saying KEjr. I too try to be nice and polite. I also try to not let people run me off. Keep up the good work.
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I love a lot of you guys. I love this community. There are some people here that are a pain, and seem to revel in arguing and turning any discussion into a chance to prove they are right. That is sad.
On the other hand, I'm seeing some stuff that bothers me. I know some people can be annoying as Hell. But I'm seeing a lot of good people degenerating into vigilante trolling. I get the temptation, believe me.
But think about someone brand new to the boards . . . they aren't seeing the annoying guy being refuted by the great people on the boards. They are seeing an annoying guy being set upon by a lot of people that are being snarky back to him.
I know its hard, but I'd rather new people to the site get to know the awesome people I know by how they normally act then by them trying to run off a few bad elements.
Thanks all.
You are, of course, correct good sir. I know that I am one of the guilty ones, and should try to show myself to be a better person. In this case, ignorance is not bliss, just a good policy.
As is "flag it and move on".
P.S. And I'm not afraid to say it! I love you to, man.
You are, of course, correct good sir. I know that I am one of the guilty ones, and should try to show myself to be a better person. In this case, ignorance is not bliss, just a good policy.
As is "flag it and move on".
P.S. And I'm not afraid to say it! I love you to, man.
** spoiler omitted **
Man, all that time I just thought those probing hands had to do with trying to figure out how much meat I had on my bones. ;)
I lose my cool as much as anyone, I'm just trying to turn the tide a bit.
As am I. I have been stressed enough about trolls around here I feel, rightfully, that I in fact have added nothing useful to the boards for sometime. Maybe after these few trolls go down in flames and move back to their self troll love in gamings den we can have some peace.
In other news, KEJR, just keep on being you. You bring a lot of civility and interesting conversation to the boards, and that counters about 98% of the strollin' trollin I see here. Continue to be the change you wish to see in the universe(on the messageboards).
You do me far too much credit, but thank you!
You, KEJR, are saying much more directly what I was trying to say in another thread, which one doesn't matter, only more directly and with less beating around the bush.
I tried to make a list of 10 things one should take into account before posting. Fail, or not?
But you are valiant defender of good behaviour.
I salute you good sir!
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Repost from another thread:
It's all gravy. People who feel like their ideas are under assault sometimes cannot step back and take a look at what the actual problem is. Dissention is fine IMO, but it's worth noting that extraordinary claims do require extraordinary proofs, and when you don't provide those then your ability to have a civil conversation is significantly diminished. If you're going to dissent from a mainstream view, you typically need to show some evidence to be taken seriously.
/Repost
This cuts both ways, of course. You've got to understand their will be dissenters to your views. Civility doesn't just mean say something nice, but also avoiding outright dismissal. People are entitled to an opinion, even if you think otherwise of their opinion.
Edit: There was a thread about Summoners that I am having trouble finding now where several posters apologized to one another for their behavior in previous posts. I have to say that I found that incredibly noble of all of those who apologized.
I'm with you man.
The best thing you can do for the forums is to help the newcomers, and ignore the rest, flagging when necessary.
Be the person you want to see, and that's as much as you can do. It won't change the behavior of others, but trying to change others is exactly what leads to the behavior you loathe.
I've been tempted to start this very thread half a dozen times, and each time I realize that it's just feeding into the drama. Let's get back to work, I say.
There are just some threads I should stop reading. If only my will save was higher...
I feel you. Sometimes I'm like, "JMD, don't respond to that post, don't read this thread any more just go do something else." But then I do it anyways. And then I feel bad about it. But one of these days I will roll that Nat 20.
Yeh I am guilty - had some posts removed, telling people stop telling people that they were wrong.
Its very frustrating especially when edition warriors rise up unbidden to defend every nano-aspect of their game. It suffocates an otherwise good thread into a steaming pile of rancid offal.
The other thing I find annoying is the passive-aggressives that word their way around the being a Jerk rule, you cant flag them because the posts they make in isolation do not read as offensive - but when taken in context of the other posts, they are just plain nasty.
I am not sure how to combat the trolls - not feeding them is fine, but trolls can subsist on lichens and toe nail clippings for decades. The ignore button is counter-productive. Not responding only works if nobody responds - someone either a new member or a veteran having a had a gut-full of the vitriolic sputum that dribbles forth from the flabby lipped slack-jawed slow eyed troll loses control and lashes out.
We cant name and shame them, we cant call down a Thor strike and nuke them from orbit, We cant hire a decker to do a run and upload some Black I.C.E into their neural network and fry their wet-wear. We cant gather a posse of like-minded rough riders and run their asses out o town, nor can we gather the pitchforks and torches and form an angry mob.
Sometimes the patience and tolerance runs out and there is an outburst from a usually sane poster and a tsunami containing all the decaying troll crud that the poor sod had to endure heaped upon him/her by a gormless, hairy backed bogan is returned in kind.
Life goes on, the wheel turns, as much as everything changes it is still the same.
I'm not dead yet!
Oh, this thread is about...nevermind.
I'm not dead yet!
Oh, this thread is about...nevermind.
We can change that, Dr. Leafy!
I was touched for a minute there, but then I saw it was all about "How to handle the trolls." The trolls you will always have with you.
The other half is usually violence.Huh.
quix·ot·ic adj \kwik-ˈsä-tik\
: foolishly impractical especially in the pursuit of ideals; especially : marked by rash lofty romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous actionLearned something today.
And Knowing is Half the Battle!
Er . . . something like that . . . ;)
I thought the other half was red lasers and blue lasers.
Not ignoring you.
Just don't think I can say what I truly want to say without....entanglements.
I just want to say it here, and publicly.
I am a total hypocrite. I lapsed, and became the opposite of everything I espoused upthread. And it felt really great, except after.
I'm back to myself now, I hope.
I just want to say it here, and publicly.
I am a total hypocrite. I lapsed, and became the opposite of everything I espoused upthread. And it felt really great, except after.
I'm back to myself now, I hope.
Be careful, that path leads to the Dark Side.
I'm back to myself now, I hope.
Don't worry, I was very close myself.
Not ignoring you.
Just don't think I can say what I truly want to say without....entanglements.
I understand, I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you either, and I don't want to sound too harsh.
Be careful, that path leads to the Dark Side.I just want to say it here, and publicly.
I am a total hypocrite. I lapsed, and became the opposite of everything I espoused upthread. And it felt really great, except after.
I'm back to myself now, I hope.
I dunno, Evil Lincoln Starkiller has a nice ring to it. :)
Not ignoring you.
Just don't think I can say what I truly want to say without....entanglements.
Hey, wait . . . I just realized . . . at least Aberzombie felt me up and told me he loved me . . . is that too much to ask?
I dunno, Evil Lincoln Starkiller has a nice ring to it. :)Be careful, that path leads to the Dark Side.I just want to say it here, and publicly.
I am a total hypocrite. I lapsed, and became the opposite of everything I espoused upthread. And it felt really great, except after.
I'm back to myself now, I hope.
Wouldn't it be more like Darth Lincoln or something like that?
I dunno, Evil Lincoln Starkiller has a nice ring to it. :)Wouldn't it be more like Darth Lincoln or something like that?
I've only seen the trailers and preview clips for The Force Unleashed I and II, but Starkiller seems way more awesome than Vader was.
Plus, Darth Lincoln is more predictable... Predictability is the path toward Awful Lawful.
Not ignoring you.
Just don't think I can say what I truly want to say without....entanglements.
Let's just say we'd like to avoid any...imperial entanglements.
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My experience of these things here is that major league offenders generally either calm down (rarely) or one day disappear from the boards, never to return. I'm sure the Paizo staff are aware of any issues and will act appropriately - which is the point of the flag button, of course. Having taken part in the original PF flame wars, and a few others, I leart the hard way that there is little to gain other than stress and a mildly unclean sensation from engaging trolls on their own territory. I trust the guys here to know what to do as they have dealt with such situations before.
So generally speaking it's a question of the straight and narrow, eh?
I've been guilty of partaking in this troll-issue in the sense that I tried to calm the waters with my keen wit, sense of humor and over-all stay cool at all times factor.
Naturally it was doomed to fail. For three reasons, which I refuse to go into, but will let y'all figger it out... ;)
When you try to make light of things, sometimes, just sometimes it may just infuriate the people that take these "things" awfully serious.
When you try to talk reason, often times this little fragment of the message that might be misunderstood, will be misunderstood.
At the best of times, talking reason will just be ignored...
Here's to a better tone and spirit on these boards!
*Lifts mug of coffee high and takes a sip*
When in doubt do what I do: offer cake or pie. Often such a declration can derail an icky battle as both stalwart champions of good posting and dirty, filthy misbegotten trolls love pastries.
I love a lot of you guys. I love this community. There are some people here that are a pain, and seem to revel in arguing and turning any discussion into a chance to prove they are right. That is sad.
On the other hand, I'm seeing some stuff that bothers me. I know some people can be annoying as Hell. But I'm seeing a lot of good people degenerating into vigilante trolling. I get the temptation, believe me.
But think about someone brand new to the boards . . . they aren't seeing the annoying guy being refuted by the great people on the boards. They are seeing an annoying guy being set upon by a lot of people that are being snarky back to him.
I know its hard, but I'd rather new people to the site get to know the awesome people I know by how they normally act then by them trying to run off a few bad elements.
Thanks all.
I love your post and good intentions.
However, imo, the great people shouldn't refute annoying guys, because it doesn't prevent the annoying guys from spreading hate all over the boards, ignoring the ignorant is the best way to deal with this situation imo.In any case, chapeau.
I dunno, Evil Lincoln Starkiller has a nice ring to it. :)Wouldn't it be more like Darth Lincoln or something like that?I've only seen the trailers and preview clips for The Force Unleashed I and II, but Starkiller seems way more awesome than Vader was.
Plus, Darth Lincoln is more predictable... Predictability is the path toward Awful Lawful.
I prefer Darth Evil Lincoln. It’s redundancy only adds to the awesomeness. Maybe tack on a “, master destroyer” at the end.
Bake ....Shake?When in doubt do what I do: offer cake or pie. Often such a declration can derail an icky battle as both stalwart champions of good posting and dirty, filthy misbegotten trolls love pastries.Mmmmmm....Pake?
Mmmmmm....Cie?
What the?