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Today Germany made the final reperations payment Thus offically ending the First World War.
Technically it was the final interest payment on the loans they took out to make the reparations payment. They'd made the actual payments before World War II.
Also, after Germany was divided and West Germany was paying all the bills, it was decided that the interest on the loans would only be paid by a united Germany, which is another reason it's taken a while to get done.
Today Germany made the final reperations payment Thus offically ending the First World War.Technically it was the final interest payment on the loans they took out to make the reparations payment. They'd made the actual payments before World War II.
Also, after Germany was divided and West Germany was paying all the bills, it was decided that the interest on the loans would only be paid by a united Germany, which is another reason it's taken a while to get done.
Interest on a debt is as much a part of a debt as the principle. So technically David Fryer is correct.
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'The crippling reparation debt was designed to compensate the war-ravaged nations of Belgium and France after the conflict ended.' - The hell it was - It was designed to crush the German Economy and prevent WW2. Fail.
Lets see them pay war reparations for WW2. Lets See the USA pay Japan for the two Nuclear Strikes on Major Population Centres. How do you put a price on Mass Murder?
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'The crippling reparation debt was designed to compensate the war-ravaged nations of Belgium and France after the conflict ended.' - The hell it was - It was designed to crush the German Economy and prevent WW2. Fail.
Lets see them pay war reparations for WW2. Lets See the USA pay Japan for the two Nuclear Strikes on Major Population Centres. How do you put a price on Mass Murder?
the banks have a system worked out
It was designed to crush the German economy and cause WW2.
The regulations might have worked, if we'd actually...oh I don't know...ENFORCED THEM. :P
{digs opposing trench just out of poodle range, posts lookouts for poodle "landmines"}
{is covered in dirt from two trenches}
I've had big piles on me before, but this one is news to me.
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I suppose Japan may want to acknowledge the horrors they caused on the Asian continent Rape of Nanking for one before we start going after the USA for reparations to Japan. The United States helped develop the country Japan is today with the money they put into building the infrastructure. What did Japan do to payback the horrors they inflicted on Korea (north and south) China and the rest of Asia under their dictatorial tyranny?
Lets see them pay war reparations for WW2. Lets See the USA pay Japan for the two Nuclear Strikes on Major Population Centres. How do you put a price on Mass Murder?
How about asking the relations of 6 million Jews what that price is courtesy of Germany? Oh wait, how about Poland asks Russia what's the price on the mass executions in the Katyn forest? China's probably wondering where's the check from Japan's Nanking massacre. Plenty of reparations to go around on that war if you want to start pointing fingers.
Edit: Sorry to repeat Gruumash's sentiment.
I suppose Japan may want to acknowledge the horrors they caused on the Asian continent Rape of Nanking for one before we start going after the USA for reparations to Japan. The United States helped develop the country Japan is today with the money they put into building the infrastructure. What did Japan do to payback the horrors they inflicted on Korea (north and south) China and the rest of Asia under their dictatorial tyranny?
About as much as Europe and the US are willing to pay in reparations to native peoples dispossessed of their land and systematically ethnicly cleansed. The Japanese justification was that the Europeans and US had already killed millions start their Empires why should they be judged any differently (maybe it was because they weren't white).
When is Europe going to repay their loans for WWII?
When is Europe going to repay their loans for WWII?
Ahh sell to both sides, price gouge, loan shark, and turn up late after the Russians and the British Empire do the hard yards and claim victory and demand money for your efforts :-)
When is Europe going to repay their loans for WWII?
Britain paid their last installment to the US for Lend Lease a couple of years ago. I'm pretty that the financial slate is currently clean.
I got marshmellows too for when the flames start.
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Lets see them pay war reparations for WW2. Lets See the USA pay Japan for the two Nuclear Strikes on Major Population Centres. How do you put a price on Mass Murder?How about asking the relations of 6 million Jews what that price is courtesy of Germany? Oh wait, how about Poland asks Russia what's the price on the mass executions in the Katyn forest? China's probably wondering where's the check from Japan's Nanking massacre. Plenty of reparations to go around on that war if you want to start pointing fingers.
Edit: Sorry to repeat Gruumash's sentiment.
Exactly - Lets put a price on the life of a Human that is suitably crushing of the perpetrator's economy and send in the bill.
Pulls up a chair and waits for the fireworks.
throws up his hands What have I done?
Now he asks!
;)
throws up his hands What have I done?
~looks up from Volume one of 583 of "Things David Fryer Has Done (Wrong)"~ Well, I can start at page one. But there are over 1500 pages per volume and they have really little print, so it may take a while.
throws up his hands What have I done?~looks up from Volume one of 583 of "Things David Fryer Has Done (Wrong)"~ Well, I can start at page one. But there are over 1500 pages per volume and they have really little print, so it may take a while.
bad dragon, smacks claw. Down boy.
Pulls up a chair and waits for the fireworks.
I dont know if this is going to kick off... people have shown a lot of restraint - I tried to spark something up :-)
I blame David for not being inflammatory enough...
He should have said the multi-classed Lawful Evil Paladin Magus, Muslim President Obama, started WWI by spilling oil on republicans and forcing Europe to accept mandatory communist healthcare while forming the Taliban with Winston Churchill during the Gallipoli campaign.
He should have said the multi-classed Lawful Evil Paladin Magus, Muslim President Obama, started WWI by spilling oil on republicans and forcing Europe to accept mandatory communist healthcare while forming the Taliban with Winston Churchill during the Gallipoli campaign.
Hey! How'd you get access to my secret chronicles?
He should have said the multi-classed Lawful Evil Paladin Magus, Muslim President Obama, started WWI by spilling oil on republicans and forcing Europe to accept mandatory communist healthcare while forming the Taliban with Winston Churchill during the Gallipoli campaign.Hey! How'd you get access to my secret chronicles?
I am not realy a dwarf you see - I am a Free Rosicurian Illuminati Zionist Mason Gnome of Zurich in league with the lizard men from Mars who live underground and have disguised themselves as Elvis, ABBA and Michael Jackson (hence all the impersonators).
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One could say the Japanese Empire is hardly taken to task for the horrors they committed yet their Allies the Germans are taken to task for what they did. As well the United States and Europeans are taken to task for what they did and have acknowldged those atrocities something Japan has still failed to do. Sort of hard to feel bad for them when they did worse and still don't acknowledge it.
One could say the Japanese Empire is hardly taken to task for the horrors they committed yet their Allies the Germans are taken to task for what they did. As well the United States and Europeans are taken to task for what they did and have acknowldged those atrocities something Japan has still failed to do. Sort of hard to feel bad for them when they did worse and still don't acknowledge it.
Remember, the Japanese were never "taken to task" because their defeat also started the Cold War.
Suddenly, it became more important to shut Russia out of the "Pan-Pacific" pie then it was to seek justice from the Japanese.
One could say the Japanese Empire is hardly taken to task for the horrors they committed yet their Allies the Germans are taken to task for what they did. As well the United States and Europeans are taken to task for what they did and have acknowledged those atrocities something Japan has still failed to do. Sort of hard to feel bad for them when they did worse and still don't acknowledge it.
The Allies might have acknowledged a few internal things (concentration camps for citizens for example) but have certainly never acknowledged any other war crime (mass bombing of Germany being probably the strongest example of what might qualify as one).
On the other hand there are statements by the Japanese that some elements of what they did was wrong, the issue is usually these are qualified in some manner. The 1995 statement by the Japanese Diet being the most notable of these.
Finally! Here we are at the 2016 World Cup! This is a one-legged Brazilian kicker made ... history ... This isn't the World Cup!
That's not right...
Oh, pardon me! I didn't see ... wait, are you a poodle?! Poodle's don't become sentient until 3058! What is going on around here?
How did we get in here?
HELLO! CAN YOU HEAR ME? CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT YEAR IT IS?
Oh. Oh no. This shouldn't be possible! How did we get stuck in a Paizo thread?
Oh, dear. This is really NOT good. Somehow we've gotten trapped in some nonsensical argument about war reparations from WWI. We're going to have to be quick. There's already been some shots fired. We'll have to move very carefully to avoid the crossfire of moronic debate.
I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.
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I am not sure I am comfortable comparing the bombing of Dresden to the Rape of Nanking.
The bombing took place during a war in the attempts to end a war and don't mistake what I am saying the Bombing of Dresden was a horror of war much like the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. They were done to end a war and horrible events.
But trying to compare that to what the Japanese did I think is a little off base. One was done as a deliberate action after they had one the other done as an attempt to win and end a war. I think there are degrees here, you may feel they are comparable but I would have to agree to disagree there.
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I suppose Japan may want to acknowledge the horrors they caused on the Asian continent Rape of Nanking for one before we start going after the USA for reparations to Japan. The United States helped develop the country Japan is today with the money they put into building the infrastructure. What did Japan do to payback the horrors they inflicted on Korea (north and south) China and the rest of Asia under their dictatorial tyranny?
There was a Japanese porn starlet that was offering to have sex with any Chinese exchange students living in Japan in order to make up for those atrocities. Inventive way to pay for reparations, no?
Exactly - Lets put a price on the life of a Human that is suitably crushing of the perpetrator's economy and send in the bill.
While I think that the circumstances of each perpetrator's action would mitigate that "cost", I understand your point on the matter.
(As some have mentioned - there may be some moral distinction between the planned murder/cruelty of some acts and actions committed as part of a greater war effort, even if all are horrible.)I just cited further examples because initially it seems like your original post implied that only the United States was responsible for horrific actions during WW2 - which is not the case in that particular conflict.
And which you reaffirmed was not your intent with the followup response - so I'm following up to clarify my snark's origins.
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Anyhow - going back to David's original posting....
Thanks for that - The whole idea of reparation for WW1 after all this time points out to me:
1) Just how bizzarely obtuse and frustrating the peace process was after the Great War (or War To End All Wars). I read a great book on the Paris Peace conference of 1919, and in hindsight, it's amazing anything got resolved. That another war erupted doesn't seem so shocking considering all the nations that came away from that treaty with grievances about what it did (or didn't do).
2) Despite the fact that it's now some 90 years past, it still seems to impact the politics and societies of Europe in ways no one envisioned.
Anyhow...just some observations.
I am not sure I am comfortable comparing the bombing of Dresden to the Rape of Nanking.
The bombing took place during a war in the attempts to end a war and don't mistake what I am saying the Bombing of Dresden was a horror of war much like the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. They were done to end a war and horrible events.
But trying to compare that to what the Japanese did I think is a little off base. One was done as a deliberate action after they had one the other done as an attempt to win and end a war. I think there are degrees here, you may feel they are comparable but I would have to agree to disagree there.
What about the slow death of nations and cultures, the bans on language and displays of culture the creation of reservations the policy of removal children, the constant breaking of treaties, forced removal from land, selling of diseased clothing, the poisoning of the water supply the mass rapes and massacres, the deaths in custody, the rewriting of history... China and Korea still exist and have the political clout to demand reparations. The west has only just begun to realise the horrors inflicted upon the Native peoples of the world and very little reparations have been made and those of us of indigenous descent know very well anything given will be taken away.
Dont get me wrong, during WWII my grandfather fought the Japanese in the Jungles of New Guinea and Borneo and his view of the Japanese of the time was that they were savage beasts, when the war ended he was part of the occupying forces in Japan. He found the average Japanese person was not that bad and returned to Japan on several occasions - he said he would never forgive the generation that went to war but the younger Japanese he harboured not ill-will.
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I am sorry if I came across that you think I believe the United States and other Nations because of the horrible things they have done in the past are obsolved of their sins and they do not deserve criticism. I don't, they deserve their fair share indeed and what they did what many nations have done to indigenous populations not just the west. The east and west alike can be taken to task and should be taken to task for what they have done so these things are learned from and hopefully not repeated.
My point was that history has been brushed over and we have not taken to task the Japanese and what they did at the time of World War II and for that matter the Russians as well what they did to the Germans during their conquest. Both were pretty atrocious and it is forgotten which I find disconcerting.
Saw this thread title pop up and I thought it referred to the fact that the beta for the Magus is over.
ZING!
Pulls up a chair and waits for the fireworks.I dont know if this is going to kick off... people have shown a lot of restraint - I tried to spark something up :-)
I blame David for not being inflammatory enough...
He should have said the multi-classed Lawful Evil Paladin Magus, Muslim President Obama, started WWI by spilling oil on republicans and forcing Europe to accept mandatory communist healthcare while forming the Taliban with Winston Churchill during the Gallipoli campaign.
Yes that has in fact been half the entertainment.
Pulls up a chair and waits for the fireworks.*Offers a beer and a lighter* This oughta be good.
I hate beer. And though some might think I like starting the fireworks, I actually prefer a nice civil discourse. If for no other reason then to learn why someone disagrees with my assessment.
I suppose Japan may want to acknowledge the horrors they caused on the Asian continent Rape of Nanking for one before we start going after the USA for reparations to Japan. The United States helped develop the country Japan is today with the money they put into building the infrastructure. What did Japan do to payback the horrors they inflicted on Korea (north and south) China and the rest of Asia under their dictatorial tyranny?There was a Japanese porn starlet that was offering to have sex with any Chinese exchange students living in Japan in order to make up for those atrocities. Inventive way to pay for reparations, no?
I could see your boss having an issue with that.
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I could see your boss having an issue with that.I suppose Japan may want to acknowledge the horrors they caused on the Asian continent Rape of Nanking for one before we start going after the USA for reparations to Japan. The United States helped develop the country Japan is today with the money they put into building the infrastructure. What did Japan do to payback the horrors they inflicted on Korea (north and south) China and the rest of Asia under their dictatorial tyranny?There was a Japanese porn starlet that was offering to have sex with any Chinese exchange students living in Japan in order to make up for those atrocities. Inventive way to pay for reparations, no?
I here by offer to have sex with any Japanese girl who comes along as a way of making reperations for the atomic bomb.
I here by offer to have sex with any Japanese girl who comes along as a way of making reperations for the atomic bomb.
Smashing! At this rate we'll have all historical and cultural wounds healed by the end of the decade.
Watch where you're shooting that thing! You nearly took a poodle's eye out!Saw this thread title pop up and I thought it referred to the fact that the beta for the Magus is over.ZING!
Hey, at least I didn't STABBYBLAST!
I here by offer to have sex with any Japanese girl who comes along as a way of making reperations for the atomic bomb.Smashing! At this rate we'll have all historical and cultural wounds healed by the end of the decade.
So does this mean most of us can go to Germany and....
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So does this mean most of us can go to Germany and....I here by offer to have sex with any Japanese girl who comes along as a way of making reperations for the atomic bomb.Smashing! At this rate we'll have all historical and cultural wounds healed by the end of the decade.
So, when are the Swedish Bikini Team going to give us reparations for the horrors suffered by us (geeks) when the cheerleaders wouldn't date us in high school?