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The good think is that we arw not friends (even if we where,after that...)
The bad think mr.fishy is that i'm from greece, otherwise i would like to play with a "7 year old fishy" rather than a 32 year old weirdo
Thanks god in less than a month i'll be in Thessaloniki where my rest friends are.
Well if he is not a friend then kick his ass to the curb... maybe toss in a curb stomp if he gets lippy. :)
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Thx a lot guys. i think i'll try to convice him.
Players often seem to get an attitude that they are somehow doing the DM a favour by playing, and the DM feels they have to 'convince' the player of things.
Don't convince. Lay down the law. Explain the stat rolls are far, far above average and even if they weren't its your policy to have them rolled in front of you. If he can't even accept your authority before the game starts hes not worth the trouble- just tell him your not willing to DM for him. Run for the 3 others and recruit another if necessary. Theres always more players.
Edit: And now after looking over the thread I can see you've let him into the game with those stats. Well, the results speak for themselves as I can see. Bad move. This is a classic problem player.
I know this has essentially been addressed, but I find a good rule of thumb is: would you accept this sort of behavior outside of gaming?
This sounds like very good advice at first, but I am continually amazed what behavior many people accept from others in real life.
If they accept it outside of gaming, then they likely would not see it as a problem inside of gaming and, therefore, would be less likely to make a post like this. If they accept it outside of gaming but realize it is a problem, then they already know it is a problem inside of gaming as well.
I think people often already have an answer when they post. What they are really after is some support.
Well if he is not a friend then kick his ass to the curb... maybe toss in a curb stomp if he gets lippy. :)
Hahaha. Really good option but i stopped kicking ass two years ago. :D
The fact is that one of the other three is a friend of mine and told me come to meet to guys who wanna play the game. I went there and the other two where normal guys polite, friendly and social. I accepted to be the DM almost instantly. And then my friend tells me of a forth player who knows DnD and wants to learn Pathfinder. The rest is already known.
I just refused to be again the DM with the "drow". I dont tolerate this kind of behaviour from nobody not even my closest and dearest friend or girlfriend. Yelling and screaming is just an immature way of expressing one's feelings or disapointment.
Thank you all for your suggestions and ideas.
The session went bad. The player finally agreed to play with the rules and rolled the stats. He rolled pretty well 17,16,14,12,11,10 and i was happy we where going to play. Then the shock comes. I ask him what race and class does he have in mind and i tell him that with these stats he could play anything in a very good level. His response : "I dont like what i rolled, for that reason i'll play a half-celestial drow noble monk" . I told him "The drow noble has a level adjustment +3 (from DnD is +3) and the half-celestial +3 (i made it +3 the moment he told me his intention, in DnD it is +5 ), so your character will start 1 lvl monk half celestial drow noble while the rest party will be 7 lvl and face encounters and problems for 7 lvl party". He told me "i dont care i can perfectly stand up to these problems".
Ok i said and the campaign started. After about a hour the party is ambushed by some slavers and the Half-Celestial Drow Noble Monk (with 14 hp and 23 AC, 20 str,25 dex,20 con, 12 int, 22 wisdom, 16 cha) uses his race SP ability suggestion to one of them and tells him to stand still in order hug him. The spell succeeds and the drow graps him and starts flying (feathers from half-celestial) and then he tells me that because he had taken the feat throw everything he throws the slaver to one other slaver and he throwed him from 60 feet expecting that both slavers would take 6d6 falling damage plus the damage that the improvised weapon (the slaver!) would do....
I looked him and told me that this i doesnt work exactly like this. His response "The feat is called THROW ANYTHING, so i grab ANYTHING I WANT and throw it ANYWHERE I WANT" (caps for screaming). One of the players a very experienced DM tells him that i have right, but the Drow keeps on yelling about cheating him...
The result was that he gave up playing saying he could do nothing to help the party and at the next encounter he simply sat on a rock and was looking at the fight.
He is lucky you did not force a strength check to make him fly off with another creature of about the same size. Well in any event his experience means nothing, which I figured. Time to let him go. The only thing I think he can show is how not to behave.
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20 str he could pick another person up and fly without a str check, assuming the total weight didn't go past 133lbs. I wouldn't make him roll a str check, but it probably did. Throwing people as a weapon is just fine, if you are strong enough, a 20 is not strong enough, you'd probably want a 30, assuming both are medium, or to be a larger category than the person you are throwing.
Both of you Freesword and Wraithstrike are right. The damage for throwing the slaver : 2d10+str mod with a -4 to attack roll, and reflex saving throw for half if he wanted to let him fall, or 30 feet maximum range.
As for the fly part. I asked for fly check because lifting a fighter in Banded Mail with Heavy Steel Shield and a Battleaxe is no easy job to do while flying. He answered that he can do so beacause he has an innate ability to fly.
I could do anything but continue playing with the rest party
I have hade such a player in my grupe, and when we "dealt" with it, by telling him that cheating was not accepted in the grupe, we even did it in a very nice way, by calmly telling the player that we really liked having him at the game but that all roles needed to be made in front of the dm.... he became very angry and permanently left the game.
i will tell you this you are better of without him, but if you insist on giving him a 2nd chance you should make it clear to him that you will not have him treating you like that.¨
as a growen up you dont need to understand why ohter people act the way they do, insted you should be able to trust them to act in a fashion everyone can tolerate. if they dont they should take their anger issues to a professionel
I have found that age and length of playing time have almost no effect on someones ability to play the game, or act mature. Some of the best players I have know were new to the game, and some of the worst started in the early 1980's.
It's not where your from, it is where your at.
Also, yelling, asking for unfair exceptions, and arguing with the GM mid-game are all signs of a bad player (and rude person) regardless of age.
Good on you for giving this player another chance. You showed that you are a great GM and that you put in effort to expand the pool of players. It is a shame that this player left, but it is clearly his lose, not yours.
"i'll play a half-celestial drow noble monk"
*giggle*
Also +1.
HOWEVER, after the events(screaming & yelling) prior to this moment, I'm 100% positive I would told him to...
"GET THE F*** OUT, LEAVE NOW, BEFORE YOU REALLY PISS ME OFF!"
... just like that, I'm certain of it. The player sounds like he lacks common sense as well as any sort of common courtesy(for anyone), I don't deal well with stupidity.
EDIT: You need to talk with Mr. Fishy, you're in DIRE need of a stick!
I wish you better luck DM'ing in your new location, sounds like you'll be happier to say the least. Also, I wouldn't let one idiot sway you from DM'ing, most of us players appreciate the time and effort put into running a game.
Here's the thing. This individual doesn't get it that D&D is a cooperative venture. Again I point out my experiences. If I'm going to do anything even vaguely outside of the direct wording of a feature, I ask.
"Hey... I've got Throw Anything. I'm thinking about grabbing this guy, flying, and throwing him. Will it work?"
See, by the time you've invested two or three actions into a plan it's too late to find out you're not allowed. You will feel cheated. You set something up, you got denied. It sucks. But it's all your fault.
This guy simply doesn't understand how to have fun. He's looking for the Win Button.
Throw Anything (Combat)
You are used to throwing things you have on hand.
Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised ranged weapon. You receive a +1 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made with thrown splash weapons.
Normal: You take a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with an improvised weapon.
Weapons are objects. It could be argued that dead NPCs are objects, but live ones aren't. They're creatures. This player elected to not read his feat.
Even better, applying any sense at all, we'd have to recognize that throwing something the same general mass as you are while flying non-magically, half your throw is going to push you in the opposite direction. To manage to get the slaver to land 10ft away, he'd have to push himself 10ft backwards. So. How hard do you have to throw someone to get them 20ft away? Yeah. Range increment of a medium creature: 0ft. There's a reasonable ruling.
Get a Stick! Mr. Fishy will wait.
[Law requires that Mr. Fishy not endore the stiking of another people]
Hit a B%#~!! [Mr. Fishy is not a people.]
Hey guys, I'm sorry I'm late for Yahtzee night, but while I was in the car on the way over I rolled for all my missed turns.
Hey look, I'm winning! With like six Yahtzees! I'm great at this game!
I think that gets you free turn or double-word score or something! :D
Mr. Fishy calls Evil Lincoln a cheater.
Mr. Fishy calls Evil Lincoln a cheater.
Evil Lincoln is touched by Mr. Fishy's compliment.
Wait, what?! CUT, CUT, CUUUUUT! The script says... "screaming AND yelling"
Try it again, we're wasting money people! *cRACk* ACTION!
EVIL LINCOLN IS A CHEATER AND AN AIRBREATHER!
He then started screaming and yellingLadies and gentlemen, this is why God created the German Suplex.
Remember the German Suplex.
Adminitster the German Suplex.
Continue until behavior is adjusted to something acceptable.
Buh,....buh,... then he has to get behind him and HUG him.
;P
EVIL LINCOLN IS A CHEATER AND AN AIRBREATHER!
Therefor, I employ an underwater breathing apparatus.
It's very popular in the prison system.
Fishy is right, "Get a stick"... then get more sticks, then get a torch.
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He then started screaming and yellingLadies and gentlemen, this is why God created the German Suplex.
Remember the German Suplex.
Adminitster the German Suplex.
Continue until behavior is adjusted to something acceptable.
Buh,....buh,... then he has to get behind him and HUG him.
;P
SACRIFICES HAVE TO BBE MADE TO BETTER SOCIETY. NOW DO IT.
You can shower afterwards.
"i'll play a half-celestial drow noble monk"
*giggle*
"My stat block is 20 22 15 12 20 11... that's fine for level one, man, calm down! I only have DR/5 magic. No biggie."
The good think is that we arw not friends (even if we where,after that...)
The bad think mr.fishy is that i'm from greece, otherwise i would like to play with a "7 year old fishy" rather than a 32 year old weirdo
Thanks god in less than a month i'll be in Thessaloniki where my rest friends are.
I guess I should be glad that my groups (in Greece) were always awesome... I guess it helped we were friends for years too... :)
Kalo kouragio!
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"My stat block is 20 22 15 12 20 11... that's fine for level one, man, calm down! I only have DR/5 magic. No biggie.""i'll play a half-celestial drow noble monk"
*giggle*
Wimp! I had 20 24 22 24 21 32...after a belt of physical perfection +6 and a headband of mental superiority +6, I sold 10 foot poles and bought 10 foot ladders until my eyes fell out.
altough there are already plenty of answers:
I would let him keep his scores, if he threw them in front of several other players. At character generation I as a GM can't always handle every score rolled, but at least be present, and they won't cheat in front of each other.
If they try to cheat, and everybody somehow has such scores, then the probability is so little that you are probably better of playing Poker with them.
In my opinion if you rule he has to reroll (which is only fair) and he starts to argue, ask him if he wants to argue about every decision you make that targets him or his character. If the GM tells someone to stop arguing he should stop or leave the group, that's how the power is in my groups. (see thread about GM=dictators)
I can see that age is a problem, the GM always was one of the older ones, but the main problem is that in your group age does not correlate with maturity. A veteral roleplayer would know that good scores don't add to fun, but arguing with the GM about it decreases the fun.
I hate rolling stats that is why we went to point buy with 3.x. With point buy you get to develop a character exactly how you imagine him to be. This is a phantasy game, don't really need to say anything more.
How, with sixteen years of experience player could think of rolling own stats without GM supervision? Such behavior was hint of either ill will or very poor judgement.
His later behavior didn't clarified if it was really ill will or just personal issues. Anyway, have fun without him.
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How, with sixteen years of experience player could think of rolling own stats without GM supervision? Such behavior was hint of either ill will or very poor judgement.
His later behavior didn't clarified if it was really ill will or just personal issues. Anyway, have fun without him.
Some GMs don't care, but you are supposed to ask first, then roll. I personally don't care what stats you roll, if you annoy me enough, I'll punish you, and sometimes that means killing your character. I will also kill characters if they are difficult for me to run a game with. Like psychics, if they have the right set of powers they can screw a game up royally, I kill those characters very fast. Though I've yet to see a psychic with those powers, but I do know I'd kill it at character creation, because I need secrets to get the plot moving some times.
Some GMs don't care, but you are supposed to ask first, then roll. I personally don't care what stats you roll, if you annoy me enough, I'll punish you, and sometimes that means killing your character. I will also kill characters if they are difficult for me to run a game with. Like psychics, if they have the right set of powers they can screw a game up royally, I kill those characters very fast. Though I've yet to see a psychic with those powers, but I do know I'd kill it at character creation, because I need secrets to get the plot moving some times.How, with sixteen years of experience player could think of rolling own stats without GM supervision? Such behavior was hint of either ill will or very poor judgement.
His later behavior didn't clarified if it was really ill will or just personal issues. Anyway, have fun without him.
If I were your player that would not be kosher with me. Instead I would expect you to tell me, when I told you I wanted to make a psion telepath, that your game is based on intrigue and that character concept doesn't fit your game.
If you let me roll my telepath and then GM-hammered the character in play, I'd feel wronged.|
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Some GMs don't care, but you are supposed to ask first, then roll. I personally don't care what stats you roll, if you annoy me enough, I'll punish you, and sometimes that means killing your character. I will also kill characters if they are difficult for me to run a game with. Like psychics, if they have the right set of powers they can screw a game up royally, I kill those characters very fast. Though I've yet to see a psychic with those powers, but I do know I'd kill it at character creation, because I need secrets to get the plot moving some times.
If a character is in general going to be problematic, I let the player know this up front. I will work with the player to try to redirect their ideas about their character into a channel that will still satisfy their vision of their character's personality and abilities without causing a problem for the group or for me. Killing the player's character in game is something that the DM can always do, at any time. But it destroys the bonds of trust between the DM and the players that they are all there to have fun together, rather than have an antagonistic relationship in game.
Some GMs don't care, but you are supposed to ask first, then roll. I personally don't care what stats you roll, if you annoy me enough, I'll punish you, and sometimes that means killing your character. I will also kill characters if they are difficult for me to run a game with. Like psychics, if they have the right set of powers they can screw a game up royally, I kill those characters very fast. Though I've yet to see a psychic with those powers, but I do know I'd kill it at character creation, because I need secrets to get the plot moving some times.How, with sixteen years of experience player could think of rolling own stats without GM supervision? Such behavior was hint of either ill will or very poor judgement.
His later behavior didn't clarified if it was really ill will or just personal issues. Anyway, have fun without him.
It is the not the DM's job to punish anyone. Killing characters off to be spiteful is no more mature than what the problem player is doing.
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I played with a guy, then DMd for him (briefly) whose "interpretation" of the rules was atrocious. He would "misread" and/or "overlook" sections of entire rules, feats, skills, etc. as long as it was beneficial to him (then he'd be a rules lawyer to everyone else).
When I was playing with him, he basically would pick up entire feat lines without any regard for preqs. He had a dex of like 12 and picked up the whole TWF/Sword and board chain by like 10th level...dex and BAB requirements be damned. He was real secretive about his character sheet, and it wasn't until told us that shield master removed all TWF penalites for his 8 attacks per round (at level 10) and I asked him to explain how that worked that everyone else took notice. He had full vital strike chain he was using to apply to every weapon swing, no TWF penalites, he would have magically "miscalculated" saving throw bonuses shortly after failures, etc.
I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt after the last episode, but hee tried to pull that s+$# when I DMd for him and you know what happened? He got mauled to death by a big f@++in bear. At first level. He rerolled and tried to pull the same sh!t with his next character and I went through line-by-line and had him redo pretty much every attack number.
Moral of the story? I dunno...i've been pretty rambly today. I guess it might be you can't fix stupid or munchkin...follow Mr. Fishy's advice and grab a stick. If worst comes to worse, you can say you thought you were LARPing.
At this stage it is really time to not invite that person back to a roleplaying session, ever! If you want to be nice, you could give him one last chance, explaining very clearly that his behaviour is not tolerated and is distracting from everyone else's enjoyment of the game. I've been quite lucky with my gaming groups and I have the benefit of studying at a university with a rather large roleplaying association, but even so we have some members I would never allow in my games. As the person in your case is not a good friend of yours there is no point in putting up with his behaviour at all.
Rule #32: You don't yell at the ref.
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I played with a guy, then DMd for him (briefly) whose "interpretation" of the rules was atrocious. He would "misread" and/or "overlook" sections of entire rules, feats, skills, etc. as long as it was beneficial to him (then he'd be a rules lawyer to everyone else).
I think if I'd been his DM I would 'misread' his damage rolls and AC.
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Sometimes you take over another person's game, it happens.
I will allow psychics, so long as they don't take certain powers, because some people want to play psychics and the store I play at, they will abuse it. I will even warn them of this, give them options to exchange out, but some players are stubborn.
Stubborn players are a particular thorn in my side, trying to convince a player that his character doesn't have the psych lim: pacifist, ergo he shouldn't play like his character is a pacifist and even if he was destroying vampires is okay, is one of the most annoying issues I've had to deal with to date. I've actually got a psychic in that group, who only has a few moves, none of which offend me, and I'm trying to convince him to use something other than punch.
Yeesh, and I thought I had player problems. This guy is a train wreck. "Half-Celestial Drow Noble??" I would love to hear the backstory on that!
"Well my father...a Drow Noble mage summoned a hound archon and just had to *^$@ it. Then he kidnapped it, waited for it to give birth, and spend the rest of his life wandering the underdark to evade the Matron Mothers so that they would not punish him for his treasonous fornication. Did I mention that they finally caught me and made me a Drider too? But I escaped and fled to the surface where I distribute justice with my magical scimitars."
This is why there are no drow in my homebrew.
