I was wondering the feasibility of doing a Rogue 5/Dragon Disciple x build. The two Rogue talents would be minor and major magic of course, but would it qualify for "Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation" clause in the prerequisites. I know it is treated like a spell like ability, but does it require preparation like the wizard does?
The basic flavor of the character is to basically start off with an orphaned kid growing up on the streets, doing what he had to survive, with a gnawing suspicion something was different about him. As he gets into more and more stressful situations, (i.e. leveling) he would start manifesting portions of his (copper, of course) draconic heritage, and it would really kind of freak him out.
I think it would be fun to play, and I just wanted to know if the rule lawyers would say its good to go, or might I have to get special dispensation from the DM.
Thanks.
I'm fairly certain that spell-like-ability does not equal ability-to-cast-spells, so also no using Shadowdancer shadow magic to qualify for it.
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No, start thinking of something else. You can keep a similar theme, though.
Start with say, 4 levels of Rogue. Add a level of spontaneous arcane caster. (Sorcerer with dragon bloodline, or Bard)
Ofcourse you can ask your DM to allow it, or for a variant. One thing I'd like to see is a Divine (Golden) Dragon Disciple variant for Paladins.
I would personally houserule to allow it, but this has been brought up before on the forums. CoV is correct in that spell-like abilities do not count as spells for the purpose of meeting prerequisites. Pitch the idea to your DM, as he might be as accommodating as I am.
Yeah, he probably would allow it, but I wanted to check to be sure.
Is the "spell-like abilities not counting as spells" thing in the errata somewhere? Because all I have found are statements like these
Major Magic (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list two times a day as a spell-like ability.
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Spell-like abilities function just like spells, but are granted through a special racial ability or by a specific class ability (as opposed to spells, which are gained by spellcasting classes as a character gains levels).
This definition says the only difference between the two is where you get the ability, not in their function, because that's the same.
Or, if you could provide me a link to the thread that discussed this earlier, I did a search and couldn't find it. Either way, I would be appreciative.
The requirement is to be able to cast 1st-level spells w/o preparation. That is the province of such classes as the sorcerer and bard. They cast spells, no prep. Your rogue talents give you spell-like abilities, not spells, though spell-like abilities duplicate the effects of spells. You do not have spell slots in the same way as a sorcerer, who can cast X spells per day from his Y spells known and can apply metamagic feats on the fly etc. SLAs are like striking a match to get fire, while spells are like mixing potassium permanganate and glycerin to get fire. You both get a flame, but the latter guy knows something about how he got it (since most of us wouldn't know to do that), while the match guy just knows he struck it against the side of the box--there's no underlying knowledge of the chemistry involved.
Is the "spell-like abilities not counting as spells" thing in the errata somewhere?It would count as being able to cast that particular spell, but not '1st level spells'.
-James
...and that is pretty legit, although there might be some wiggle room with the fact that they get two spells of the same type per day. Technically plural with the spells thing.
I still haven't seen anything in the rules that would forbid it outright, just people's opinions about what the rules say, which is no better or worse than my opinion in that none of these people are my DM. If anyone could link me to some errata or that other thread people are talking about, that would be great.
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If anyone could link me to some errata or that other thread people are talking about, that would be great.
What I found. Sorry it took so long, had to get lunch. :)
If anyone could link me to some errata or that other thread people are talking about, that would be great.What I found. Sorry it took so long, had to get lunch. :)
Hey, thanks for the effort, there's no time table really. I appreciate it. Special dispensation or sorcerer level it is.
OK, so what if you allow Major Magic to count as the pre-req?
Great, that means every Dragon Disciple that progresses casting now progresses the casting of... Major Magic.
Which has no progression.
Hmmm,
Just an idle thought. I think I would personally allow a divine caster that worshiped a dragon deity to also take dragon deciple, if they were a spontaneous caster (IE: Oracle). I don't think it would break things, although I would be iffy about allowing a blind oracle (since they'd get blindsense faster). On the other hand, it is a nice synergy, so perhaps instead enhanced blindsense when they get it as an oracle.
Sorry for the threadjack.
Great, this argument again. It was dumb when it was used in 3.5 and it is dumb now. Being able to cast a single spell as a SLA does not equate to being able to cast X level spells.
Accept that Oracles don't need to worship dieties.I fixed that for you.
They still gain their power through deities, but only ones that support their ideals. It's in the first paragraph of the class description.
Thanks,
I'm too busy to respond to everything that people toss at me lately. :)