She only started playing a few months ago, and according to another DM that ran games when she started (I was out of town), she tries to limit her character to things that have no game impact but still take time away from the game. Like Profession (cakebaking) and other such silliness. The girl is mortified by blood or even the hinting of gore of any kind, and she doesn't even want her character to have a weapon or offensive abilities as far as I can tell.
That's not even the hardest part: she doesn't want to role play. It's 'awkward' for her or something.
Deep down, I know she's a bit of a geek like the rest of us (she loves Harry Potter, Star Wars, watches Doraleous, even goes around singing Wanna Date My Avatar? sometimes). However, her over-dramatization of her dislike of playing the way we play, along with her ever so vocal expression of said dislike, makes things difficult for us.
I have already decided that when our campaign starts I'm going to lay down the law on participation because I don't want her detracting from the other players' experience. I personally would prefer that she just hang out while we play, which would still be distracting, but would be a better alternative to not inviting her and having to listen to the whining and groaning that would ensue for "leaving her out." She's incredibly over-sensitive and takes things very personally (drama-queen stereotype minus the RP).
My question is: How should I deal with her without ruining the fun at the table, which will invariably happen if I ask her not to attend (wherein she will complain to half the remaining players and make them feel bad about playing at all)?
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Unfortunately, I'm probably not the best person to give you advice, as I have very little patience for this kind of thing, but I would take her aside and (as politely as possible) tell her that there are certain things that have to be done in an RPG and by not contributing to either roleplay or combat, she is essentially stealing XP from the rest of the party. Maybe you could suggest a seperate night of the week for you all to get together and do something non-game related, but she either needs to step up and be a productive member of the party or step out and let the people who actually want to play do so.
First and foremost, away from the table pick a night and invite the player, her significant other and the friend over for a chat. This is something that needs to be solved away from the table. Waiting untill gametime and 'laying down the law' will do little but cause conflict in the group. So invite the best friend and the significant other and her and sit down and calmly explain what you have said to us.
Explain that while it isn't a promotion of violence, the game most certainly has violence in it. It is after all a fantasy story, and well wizards, knights, and rogues fight with things. Thats how the game works. Basing your character around cakebaker is not a reasonable thing to do in a game where the characters will be traveling into dangerous situaitons where violence will occur.
That said, she doesnt actually have to use weapos. There are lots of non-violent ways to contribute to the party. Bard is a great example. She can offer support (buffs) to her friends in time of need without actually taking part in the fight. She can use her spells (enchantments and illusions) to actually prevent violence in the first place. Why kill who you can charm right? Other casters can also fill similar roles, or she could be a healer who doesnt fight, just heals and removes conditions. So its very possible for her character to be non-violent and still contribute, she just needs to be shown how. Right now you probably thinks every character has to blast things with fireball or use sharp pointy things on other creatures in order to be a part of combat. The whole concienscious objector could be an interesting personality trait for her character.
Now the last and most important part. The game is about having fun, she needs to understand that includes everyone. Explain to her that if she wants to tone down her own roleplay thats fine, she can just describe what her character is doing as opposed to speaking in character, but that doesnt give her the right to detract from other players fun at the table. If she cannot accept the 'everyone should be having fun clause' then explain she doesnt belong at the table, and she isnt being left out, she is actively choosing not to participate.
The [assumption here] boyfriend and best friend can and should participate in this discussion since obviously they have knowledge of the player and can [presumably] help with the explanation and argument. Clear things with them before the conversation so they know they are there to help make sure everyone her included have fun at the next game.
Again I cannot stress enough that this conversation has to happen AWAY from the game table. The other players (not the boyfriend or best friend) such as the last dm could easly get hostile in the conversation causing the two that are particularly close to her to defend her regardless of who they agree with. The point is not to make her feel teamed up on, but to show her what the real idea behind this particular section of geekdom is about.
Depending on how this conversation goes you can make a better choice on how much law laying down is required and how to handle any future issues. Good luck and happy dming.
my first tought was "how old is she?", my guess would be around 14?
anyway, you say she doesn't want to roleplay, but she still likes to take feats that aren't fight-relevant, but roleplay-relevant. If someone wants to be a baker, let her be, that's my take.
There can be PC's that don't attack, for example pure healers, the book of exalted deeds has a feat: vow of nonviolence. Would be good for her.
An oracle that focuses purely on healing is quite easy to deal with too.
The most important part in fights is, that she doesn't fun of, and you have to divide your attention. If she stands around in fights, that's okay, just downgrade your ennemies a bit.
And in some groups there are people that aren't really there for playing, I once had a girl in my group (I was a player tough), that played an elven bard, half of the time didn't knew what we were doing and drew paintings of elves at the table. She was still very welcomed.
This to say that perhaps you shouldn't expect too much "playing" of every player. Give them as much attention as they want, which doesn't mean it has to be even.
Now if the problem persists, and she disturbs the fun of everyone, talk to her. Perhaps she wants a different take, less description of violence perhaps, which can be good. You might give her the opportunity to GM once perhaps, to see how she would run it, perhaps you'll like her style.
If this doesn't work out at all, well, gather the whole group together (including her) and speak about the problem at hand. Don't let her out of the loop.
Perhaps you just need to tell her, that the game isn't about replaying/replaying Harry Potter ;-) , everyone who would want to play a child-wizard with a lightning scar on his forehead would get his ass kicked by me or by the hordes of demons coming for him, dragging him to hell.
Do you think you can approach her and point out that your playing styles clash? It will be important to not appear to be invalidating her style (like calling her preferences 'silliness'). You simply are after different things from the game. She is likely to get just as frustrated with the game as you are.
Is there anyway to compromise? Perhaps her cakebaking character just happens to be the daughter of an over-protective Duke who has hired the PCs to protect her. Of course, this would get boring quickly.
Role playing is a co-operative sport. It is not just about any one character. So what does she bring to the table? Why would the other characters have anything to do with her? In a novel, you can follow a single character, but in role playing there has to be some compromising.
I'm sorry to say this, but the Gamemastery guide from paizo misses something, it's the type of players, specificly the "Lurker", which is described in the Dungeon Master Guide 2.
Even inattentive lurkers can be assets to your group.
They might fi ll out the party by playing a necessary character
class no one else is interested in. Lurkers often take
the role of “second chair,” playing a class that is useful to
duplicate. They might add brute force, additional healing,
or extra spells without stealing thunder from players more
interested in playing their characters to the hilt.
Don’t underestimate the social role of the lurker. Your
lurker might be the person who makes sure another player
attends, or who drives one or more players to your game. If
disputes arise, it’s calming to have somebody in the room
who doesn’t contribute to a tense situation.
If you have one or two such players, do your best to make
them feel welcome and comfortable. Sometimes lurkers
come out of their shells and blossom into more active players,
and you should pay enough attention to them to bring
them along if that happens. Mostly, though, the lurkers
call for your acceptance. Recognize that it’s okay for them
to be shy or laid-back—and that you’re not failing as a DM
by not setting their imaginations on fi re.
the whole article is a lot longer, but I guess that copying the whole thing might get copyright problem. (or is it open content?)
Go get a stick...Mr. Fishy will wait. Got a stick? Good you're going to need it.
If "she" is a hypersensitive drama queen you sir are screwed, because depending on how sensitive she is nothing you say is going to good down well. You may need to test the waters with the rest of the group. If you are the only person she bothers you do not want to start a fight with the whole group vs you. Ask the rest of the group if they have any problems with the game.
If she is a problem you need to be as diplomacy as possible and prepare for a fall out [nuclear winter]. Mr. Fishy's Trollop takes everything Mr. Fishy says in the worst possible way and takes any slight as a presonal attack. So be easy and good luck.
Get a stick. Also have the "talk" some where you can leave [her/his house, a restaurant] and be ready to walk away if the "talk" is too heated.
** spoiler omitted **
My question is: How should I deal with her without ruining the fun at the table, which will invariably happen if I ask her not to attend (wherein she will complain to...
Talk to the other players first. Get their feedback and secure their backing for any course of action. All in all, sound like she doesn't really want to be there if her character contributes nothing tangible and she doesn't like RP - not a problem, until it detracts from everyone else's fun, then ... it comes down to she has to change or leave.
Well, the boilerplate response is that in-game problems usually result from out-of-game social issues. Once you have exhausted all options treating the problem as a purely social one (which can be tough), only then can you treat this as a GM-Player problem.
So, presuming there is no social issue between you and her away from the gamaing table (which I sincerely doubt), here is how I would fix a "pure gaming problem":
Find out what she likes about playing. She's showing up, she made a character, some part of role playing must appeal.
When you figure that out, you need to merge that intellectual payload with other challenges that are more in line with your GM goals. You can actually teach her to like certain things if you're crafty and you avoid treating her as a problem. That process starts by honing in on what few things she is actually enjoying about the game, then extending those to affect the rest of the game.
Characters with lots of arbitrary skills can be irritating, but they can also ground your game in "realism" (loaded term, I know). However, there's no reason everyone has to be a combatant. There are numerous challenges in the game that are not resolved through combat.
Last of all, avoid picking on her. If you're going to try the above rehabilitation techniques, once or twice per session is fine. If she wants to handle scenes her way, let her.
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We had a friend like this once, who seemed to like the "atmosphere" and enjoyed the story, but never seemed to actually want to play--never used abilities, never role-played, etc. Eventually (before she finally got bored and quit coming) we gave her the role of "chronicler". Since her character was basically an NPC anyway, we had her come along to write down our exploits, which the player wanted to do in real life. That way we had a reason for why she never did a thing. Of course, if everyone else gets tired of protecting her, then it isn't just your problem to deal with, you have a group issue that everybody needs to talk about.
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Kolokotroni gave great advice.
Maybe a "bump" PC, one that heals and bumps the other PCs is best for her.
-- But really I don't think that's the problem.
Does she want to play or not want to play.
Ask her; she has to choose.
Not her boyfriend.
Playing the game is NOT Profession: Baker. Playing a squeemish PC is fine so long as the Player is doing it well. A PC like Fender Mallot can be cool (he's an FR dwarf pansy, but still playable).
Just remind her that you guys are trying to have fun. Her boyfriend and her best friend are trying to play a game and enjoy it and, as much as they do want her to participate, if she's gonna ruin it, it's better to not play.
I think I have mistakenly represented her as someone who is interested in the game. She is not. She plays merely on the basis of having been "left out" by opting not to play in the past. In lieu of not being able to make the boyfriend STOP playing, she has decided to join in. It has been attempted to let her run her cake baking shop or some such and play a non-combatant caster. I was not present for these, but the DM who ran the games was very generous in making time for those activities, but still she chose to distract the rest of the players.
I did allow some of my personal opinions color my original post with the comments on combat and such, but I have been a pro-rule zero player since my first session. I personally believe that the game can be fun for anyone who is willing to participate, more so if they make vocal their desires to the DM on how they choose to play. This player does not care to know enough about the rules to tell anyone what she enjoys except to say "I want to bake cakes" or somesuch. I have considered complex skill checks and encounters, but it grows tiresome and is highly repetitive.
One would really have to meet this girl to understand my desperation. I would not resort to posting here if I felt that I could talk to her away from the game, even with help. Honestly, I had hoped for more in-game ideas, though I'm not sure if I indicated that originally.
I'm thinking about introducing a fashion element so that she might make fancy clothes to let the party mingle with high-class folk in cities, and perhaps jewelry, since gems will be easier to place in treasure hoards, though the RP applications are smaller there. Cakebaking can still have its place, I suppose, though I am loathe to let her 'set up shop' and deter the party from leaving town. Small animals may be a possibility, though I don't want to overdo that because we are highly likely to have a very animal-oriented druid in the party, and the RP would degrade nearly instantaneously into real life arguments.
If I make the situation seem hopeless, it's because the circumstances probably are so. I suppose the best thing I can hope for is to *minimize* damage rather than eliminating the problem altogether.
EDIT: I took so long trying to shorten this post, I got several more replies. XD
I would prefer that I find a way to engage her as a player without having to spend an unreasonable amount of time and energy to do so, especially with the risk that her lack of genuine interest might negate that work altogether. I respect the desire to have a character who does things that are not necessarily adventure related, but there is no advancement to be had. I can't justify gaining anything other than NPC levels for menial tasks done in town, and explaining this, even before hand, would be "unfair" of me. It isn't that her characters are squeamish, it's that the player is. And it isn't limited to not wanting to be violent, it extends to not wanting the GAME to have violence in it. "Why do we have to go out and kill things?" That sort of thing.
Yes, I suspected it's one of those 'I want to play because my BF plays and I cannot make him stop' situations.
Now here's a question: does she want to be a player at the table, or does she just want to be present? If the latter, she can just be gently disengaged from the game and given other tasks to do. Alternatively, perhaps she could be persuaded that RPG night is also Girl's Night Out? See if the SOs of other players want to organise something while you game.
Bottom line is, this is not an in-game problem, so there is no in-game solution.
When the adventurers confronted the dragon, the dragon proposed an agreement. You see, the dragon had heard of the famous pastry chef. The dragon suggested that if this chef could make him the most delicious cake he had ever tasted, he would leave the village alone and never return. If the chef failed to make the cake, then he and the adventurers would fight to the death. The adventurers thought it would an attempt since, even if the chef failed, it would buy them time to prepare for a battle against the dragon. So they agreed.
The adventurers returned to the village and the chef set about to baking the cake. The chef would need flour, sugar and eggs. The adventurers approached one of the two stores in the village. The store owner said they had run out of grain to ground into flour because the goblins had been raiding all the trading caravans. When the adventurers checked with the second store owner, he confirmed the tale. So the adventurers travelled off to hunt down the goblin raiders.
They returned successful and brought back with them a caravan which had the grains needed to make the flour. Next, the chef tried to buy the sugar, but the store owners said all of the sugar in the village had been cursed by the witch in the forest. So the adventurers once again went off to confront the witch. They convinced her to lift the curse and once again return triumphant.
Nearly exhausted at these efforts, the chef went to buy the eggs. But the chicken rancher refused to sell eggs until the store owners paid for the eggs he had sold to them. You see, the first store owner refused to pay the agreed upon price when he discovered that the second store owner had paid less. The second store owner said the first store owner was attempting to drive him out of business because the second store was newer and was attempting to establish itself and needed to negotiate lower prices.
Finally, the adventurers were able to get all three parties to agree to a deal and were able to obtain the eggs the chef needed. With all of the ingredients acquired, the chef made the best cake she had ever made and the group of adventurers set off to deliver it to the dragon.
When they found the dragon, he smiled, and without even tasted it said, "You have made the best cake I have ever eaten. I will leave and never return." Confused, the chef asked, "How do you know? You have not even tasted it." The dragon replied, "It was not about the cake, but making the village unified again." With that, the dragon took to the skies and was never seen again.
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I'm thinking about introducing a fashion element so that she might make fancy clothes to let the party mingle with high-class folk in cities...
This is crap.
It's not gonna work.
Check out my earlier post.
. . . . If she's not into playing, she's not into playing.
Her boyfriend did his best to get her to join -- cool.
But I don't think anymore that the question is "does she want to play" but rather "is she ready to get her boyfriend to quit the group because she doesn't want to play but still wants to spend time together on Wednesday nights."
I agree with dabbler, if its really like you say, this wont be solved in game. I am all for making strange allowances for my players. I have a player in my current game that owns an exotic animals and beats shop. It definately sidetracks us at times, but its fun and its good roleplaying. But they have to be players. If she really has no interest in playing and just wants to be there, its not worth it. The damage will happen no matter what you do so just get it over with at the start. If you try to solve this in game it wont work, and drain the campaign. Just get the drama over at the start.
Yes, I suspected it's one of those 'I want to play because my BF plays and I cannot make him stop' situations.
Now here's a question: does she want to be a player at the table, or does she just want to be present? If the latter, she can just be gently disengaged from the game and given other tasks to do. Alternatively, perhaps she could be persuaded that RPG night is also Girl's Night Out? See if the SOs of other players want to organise something while you game.
Bottom line is, this is not an in-game problem, so there is no in-game solution.
This answer to this shows another facet of the complexity of the problem.
She is the only girl who isn't playing. The "best friend" happens to be my own girlfriend, who is quite a bit more respectful towards other players and has a tendency to enjoy the adventure part far more than other aspects. She also likes to have animal companions/pets that can tear enemies apart (gore).
My girlfriend is tired of not enjoying things because of her as well.
Bottom line is, this is not an in-game problem, so there is no in-game solution.
+1.
Honestly, if I were running the game I'd have to put my foot down and address the boyfriend. It's his responsibility, imho, for bringing the gf to the game and thereby disrupting it. So if you can't play with her there (and I really can't see how you can in that sort of environment) it's up to the guy who brought the girl along in the first place to put a stop to it. Either that or none of you can play.
That last, unfortunately, appears to be her goal.
GET A STICK!
She doesn't want her boyfriend to play? That would be the problem then. Would you carter to any one else in the group this way? If not then you shouldn't do it for her, don't reward her passive aggressive b!@&+#%%.
Let her open a bakery and then have an assassin use one of her cakes to kill someone. Or have a group of urchins rob her shop [cupcake bandits]. Or hee...have her kiddnapped and make boyfriend rescue her. A thief hides a jewel in a pasty. Mr. Fishy's got your back.
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Some players do have a harder time finding the voice of their character; some people will be more inclined to say, "My character tells you he agrees with your plan and will come along," while others will declare with a hearty laugh, "A noble plan, my stalwart friend! You shall have my blade." I personally feel that the latter is more fun, but if you've never done it before, it might seem intimidating. Has she ever been in a play? Did she ever play with dolls or action figures, speaking for each one, when she was little, or play superheroes or magical girls or whatever on the playground? Whatever her experience is, try to find an "in," and definitely make sure she feels supported.
I'm deeply curious now; what kind of character is she playing? There are, as has already been mentioned, a fairly substantial list of ways for a character to contribute without actually attacking in combat. Sometimes a newbie player is told to play a fighter because it's easier; is this the case here? As entertaining as "The Fighter Who Wouldn't Fight" (totally want to make that a children's book now, lol) could be, I can see that getting old really fast for all parties involved. Maybe you could let her switch characters now that she sees more how one of your games is likely to go?
As for the Profession: Cakebaking "silliness"...it could be she took a skill like this because she thought it was dumb and out of place, and was commenting in a way that the game seems dumb and SHE feels out of place. OTOH, that could be the first thing that came to mind when her friend said to her, "You should come play this game with us, you can pretend to be anything you like!" Maybe she has seen some of those baking reality shows, or has played Cake Mania or some other "casual" game, or had a character with the baking skill in an MMO, or otherwise had it capture her interest. Again, as has already been mentioned by other folks, if this isn't going to see a place in your mega-dungeon, that's a conversation that needs to happen between you two. In general, though, there's nothing inherently odd or disruptive about it, any more than any other Profession. Let her make a check each week to see if she earns some coin, give a brief description of the results based on the roll ("The Lord Mayor's soiree was catered successfully, and business is booming!" or "Hmm, in hindsight, using alchemist's fire to speed the baking along wasn't a fabulous decision. Part of the kitchen seems to have burned down..."), and when the party makes camp, ask her what kind of cake she's baking for dessert. ;) It doesn't have to totally sidetrack the entire game, but could be an entertaining way for her character to have a share of the spotlight time.
Whatever other information you can give would be helpful. What specific behaviors is she engaging in that are problematic? What kind of game are you running? Do you know what she was playing in your friend's game, or any more details about that game? How do the other players seem to interact/deal with her? What kind of character is she playing, and what are other people playing?
I hope you're able to find some help in this thread! :)
EDIT: A bunch of posts happened while I was writing this! Sorry if it seemed like I was ignoring things you've said in the interim... -.-'
Scene: a girl who isn't interested in playing but doesn't want to be left out is actively trying to ruin everyone else's enjoyment of the game by persisting in non-value-added activities and complaints about everyone else's actions.
Solution: kill her character, then send her to the kitchen to bake a real cake and serve it to everyone else, along with some ice cream and soft drinks.
Result: everyone is happy and involved.
That was a beautiful story, Court Fool.
You win the Thread.
Thanks. Now if I can just come up with something for my own game tonight.
So "Get your b%!%+ ass in the kitchen and make me some pie!"
That could cause a few problems but Mr. Fishy likes where your head is at.
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Epic Legendary Tale
That. Was. AMAZING! Damn, I either want to run or play in that game now...or at least read the book, full of beautiful watercolor illustrations.
OP, you do not have an easy situation on your hands. As far as talking to her, "It's a trap!" doesn't even begin to describe it. She will probably expect the boyfriend to be "on her side" in this mess, and may (not 100% unfairly) feel betrayed if this is not the case. I will think further on this matter.
Actually, there is one thing you could try to get her role-playing and participating. A friend of mine, the then ST in a vampire game, did this to my now ex-wife (we were recently married then) when she insisted on coming along with me to the game and joining in, but didn't play well, and he wasn't called Harry the Bastard for nothing.
He basically set up her character to commit a crime (breach of the Masquerade) and then had everyone, even the rest of the party (they were all in on it) turn on her when she was given time to run and a Hunt was declared.
It was simple: if she role-played the chase well, she would wake up and it would all be a dream. If she didn't, her character would die and she'd be asked not to come back.
The rest of the players played their role of being out to get her perfectly, as did the ST. The adrenaline flowed, and she got into it and role-played it awesomely!
... of course she did chase him around the house calling him all the names under the sun when he told her she awoke and it was all a dream, but the bruises healed eventually, and she's now one of the best role-players I know. It's amazing how fast a five-month pregnant woman can move when motivated by homicidal rage, too.
If you try this you could use the 'poisoned cake' idea above, employ all the other players, but keep the BF in the dark as well as her (that way she may have someone to help her a little). Maybe put a price on her head for the assassination, give her a small head start and then let loose the bounty hunters (the rest of the party, gleefully counting the gold).
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You can also try setting boundaries for how much disruption and nonsense you are willing to tolerate per gaming session, and then fuss at her if she exceeds them. Eventually, either it will bore her, or something may catch her imagination. You did say she was a bit of a geek too, so it is possible.
I know its not every case, but here's a short story about one of the best players I ever GMed... My next door neighbor was a friend of most of us in the gaming group. He thought it was ridiculous that we would all sit around rolling dice and talking about characters in a game when we could be out doing other things and having a good time. He used to make a point to come over and be aggravating whenever we played, making fun of stuff in the game, cracking jokes, and in general being disruptive. We all put up with it, but it was starting to get annoying, so one day, I told him he was not allowed over at all unless he was playing. He rolled up a character and proceeded to continue to mess with everyone, just in game now. The party went in a dungeon and the ass-hattery continued. Then something happened...during a particularly eventful fight against a wizard, his fighter charged the BBEG and stepped on brown mold and was killed right at the feet of the wizard. He asked if there was anything he could do, so I let him have a dying swing, and he rolled a natural 20, critted with wizard and decapitated him as his character died. He freaked out, and after this, he was completely hooked, and kept calling all of us asking when we were going to play again. He became one of the most involved players for the next 6 years.
So, not saying this is anything like what you have going on here.. but morale of the story is, you just never know...
EDIT: Ninja'ed by the Dabbler, but same sort of story sort of!
What does she do when you say she doesn't role-play? Kind of like Courtney! mentioned... how does she react to NPC's? Does she ignore them? Say what her character says? I', wondering if there can be any way she is attempting to role-play, but doesn't know how.
My wife wanted me to stop playing. We argued about it a lot until she realized it was very important to me. Then she asked me questions about it and eventually gave it a try... to spend time with me. She ended up being one of the better role-players in the group and everyone grew to enjoy her and her character.
That might not be the case, here. Maybe she is trying to ruin the game so her boyfriend will stop playing... or show him how silly it is (her possible point of view) or she might really care but not know how to interact in game.
What kind of character does she play? How does she react or speak to NPC's? Does she disrupt the game when others are role-playing? (i.e. making fun of people for talking in character or grumble about being bored).
We need to know a little more info before we can give accurate advice.
One thing you definitely DON'T want to do, is single her character out in game. As much fun as it would be to have someone target her bakery, if she's as melodramatic as you say, she will pitch a fit that you are picking on her... then she might actually get what she wants... her boyfriend might get mad at you and stop playing.
Prego-rage scarier and more destructive than dragon rage.
Funny as hell if your not the target.
O.o Dabbler, I'm...not sure those suggestions would REDUCE strife between players and friends...I'm glad it "worked out" for you guys, though. ("Worked out" is in quotes because I don't typically count "homicidal rage" as a win condition for a scenario.)
Well he did say he'd get her role-playing if it killed him, and it nearly did :D He kept me in the dark, BTW, so I didn't know what was going on either, but had to assist her character surreptitiously. She was OK after everyone had made her feel really welcome for role-playing well (even the ST she tried to 'kill'), and in fact by the next day was laughing about it.
One thing for certain, though, is that it really was a kill or cure ... if she had failed she would not have wanted to come back to the game, that was the plan.
Wow. I didn't expect a lot of replies, but I've gotten some pretty sage-like advice here.
I think I will try some combination of the CourtFool's story (if you don't mind me ripping it off nearly entirely :)) and the assassination thing to continue the adventure.
This brings me to a few more pre-emptive ideas though: she may be upset by the railroading (as well as the other players for having to do something like this to appease her as opposed to slaying the dragon outright for its insolence), and that I'm afraid she will only pay attention to sequences that are relevant to her character (nearly completely ignoring the game when her aspects are not involved, and thus distracting others while I try to let combat oriented players have the spotlight). I will try working around this without detracting from the somewhat serious tone I would have in my campaign (I recently finished Dragon Age, and I'm drawn in by the subjective moral spectrum and dark undertones). The situation is very discouraging but I'm growing more eager to make this attempt because of these awesome ideas.
I am still open to any other ideas Paizonians might have to offer, though. These forums are such a wonderful resource thanks to you all (including the Paizo staff! I love when they contribute to threads). :D Thanks everyone.
There wasn't a problem MacGuyver couldn't fix with a little duct tape and string....
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You could also try the Star Wars approach with her..you know, the "Help me Obi-wan Kenobi, you are our only hope!" message. Have a messenger run up to her, collapse in her arms and gasp, help us, while handing her a note. Suddenly embroil her in a situation, where the people asking for help and their enemy both seem to know her, but she has no idea whats going on. This way she could be the main focus for a short time, and the rest of the party has to help her. This could backfire, but it could also set up a way to keep her involved. Every time she totally ignores the game, use this ongoing plot to pull her back in. I realize this is a lot of work, and my compromise your game more than you are willing, but it could also pull her into the game more.
…if you don't mind me ripping it off nearly entirely…
Mind? I am flattered.
…as opposed to slaying the dragon outright for its insolence…
I went with dragon because I thought it a safe enough bet to be powerful enough a direct assault would be unthinkable. Of course you always have one in the group who either a, would rather die than 'back down' or b, believes if a PC encounters it, a PC can 'beat' it.
I would suggest using something powerful enough that an outright attack is obviously a bad idea. You can throw in hints that it may be possible to negotiate with it. "The dragon attacked Bob one time and Bob lived to talk about it." "I promised to do X if it spared my life."
There are other holes in the story. The PCs could just steal the eggs. I did not fill in any details on the side quests. Not to mention, what motivation does the cake baker have to accompany the rest of the group?
Good luck.
What does she do when you say she doesn't role-play? What kind of character does she play? How does she react or speak to NPC's? Does she disrupt the game when others are role-playing? (i.e. making fun of people for talking in character or grumble about being bored).
When things come to her character, she tends to act flustered and says "I don't know" or something very similar. She is aloof when things aren't focused around her character and talks about random things with people.
I don't mind talking during the game; I'm not a chatter nazi because I talk a lot, too. However, when you combine her demanding talkativeness with her lack of interest in what's going on, it's highly disruptive.
I think they tried having a TV in the room with her to watch once. I don't know specifics about that, but I can imagine that it simply didn't work. Everyone would be distracted by that.
Honestly, before talking to her, talk to the other players and see if they have the same opiniono about her playstyle as you do.
Start with your girlfriend. See if she thinks having her best friend at the table is helping or hurting the game. Then talk to 'The Problems' boyfriend. See how he feels about her at the table.
Talk the other players and get their feeling about how her participation is affecting them. See if this issue is just annoying to you or to everyone.
If they ALL have the same reaction to her antics as you do, then you have a stronger leg to stand on when you talk to her. If they do NOT, however, feel the same towards her playstyle as you do, you have to be prepared to make some hard choices. You just might have to either deal with her if the rest of the players finf her entertaining, or you may have to think about not running the game if your miserable playing it.
After all it is about everyone having fun. INCLUDING you. If your not enjoying playing, why should you be forced to play? While GM's have a responsibility to their players, the player has just as much of a responsibility to the GM AND the other players to make sure they contribute, not detract.
But definately find out if the rest feel the same about her antics as you do. If so discuss with them what they would ultimately like to see happen to the game as a whole and her in particular.
But as has been stated earlier, this is not a game problem. This is s social problem. Honestly, if she IS only there to interfere and try to make her boyfriemd quit, she should be banned from attentding. That sort of mental power playing is frankly despicable.
Based on how it sounds. I think the suggestion about talking to everyone else is a good idea. When / if it comes down to asking her to not play, her boyfriend should be the one to talk to her. It's a little easier when they have that level of intimacy... he can also blame everyone else and stay in her good graces... no conflict because you don't have to argue with her and deal witrh her drama when she's asked not to attend.
Alternatively, you can say you're not comfortable running game for that many players (however many there are) and ask if she only watches, but not plays.
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...wherein she will complain...
This is all the info any of us need to tell you the simple strategy. Kill her character, and take it's stuff.
She's not gonna play the game as your group wants to play. She even voices her dislike of roleplaying entirely, so why do you let her ruin your good time?
If she wants to come over for physical proximity to her man then let her *if* she can behave herself, otherwise let her know this is a 'guy thing' and she can use this time to get in touch with her female companions.
I wouldn't be so tactful in person though, I'd tell her to get lost and remind her she can come back when she decides to act like an adult instead of whining.
I have been in games where girlfriends or boyfriends joined just because their partner was into RPGs. It occasionally works out well, if they catch the roleplaying bug, but in most cases it just tends to ruin the fun for everyone. And RPGs are all about having fun, so there is no point in playing if no one is enjoying it. The only real solution is talk to the players, see how everyone else feels, and then talk to the problem player and ask her to kindly leave the game if she is clearly not into it (you can, of course, start by asking whether she is enjoying it or not and what would get her more into it, though it sounds pretty hopeless from your description of the situation).
Get a Stick...
Convert the Healer class from 3.5 to PF and tell her to play that.
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If she wants to come over for physical proximity to her man then let her *if* she can behave herself, otherwise let her know this is a 'guy thing' and she can use this time to get in touch with her female companions.
...except that the OP's girlfriend, who IS one of her female companions, is also in the game. Maybe she could disguise herself as "one of the guys" with a fake beard and a jaunty hat...
Chuck, good idea for handling the situation tactfully. If it has to come to dropping her from the game, sparing the group the histrionics while simultaneously allowing the boyfriend to save face is a great plan. Someone's put ranks in Diplomacy, I see. :) Of course, him continuing to play in the game that banned his girlfriend might strain his relationship with her further down the road, but I suppose that there's only so much a DM can be expected to do about that.
Foghammer, I really appreciate you asking for advice rather than just making a snap decision; I've seen plenty of discussions of how to recruit new players (female players in particular), and it would be sad if you just ran her off without any forethought. Clearly that is not the case, though, and I hope you are comforted that at least the denizens of the internets have your back as you navigate this thorny situation.
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This player does not care to know enough about the rules to tell anyone what she enjoys except to say "I want to bake cakes" or somesuch.
Does she happen to watch anime? I'm getting the distinct feeling she's trying to recreate an anime (yes, there's more than one, no I've not partaken) where baking is 'serious business' and attempting to turn the entire game towards this end.
Grant her the ability to bake vorpal cow pies...high heat (about 1750°) for 3 full rounds in the artifact Dolly Madison's Magnificent Oven, which she can give to the fighter to use as chakram.
Or, grant her the ability to draw cheesecake.
Either way, everybody's happy.
I don't think it's an in-game issue but a relationship issue.
This. He's her BF, she is unwilling to let him out of her sight, in effect.
Seriously though, listen to what you've said:
- She tries to limit her character to things that have no game impact but still take time away from the game.
- The girl is mortified by blood or even the hinting of gore of any kind.
- She doesn't even want her character to have a weapon or offensive abilities.
- She doesn't want to role play.
- Her over-dramatization of her dislike of playing the way we play, along with her ever so vocal expression of said dislike, makes things difficult for us.
- She's incredibly over-sensitive and takes things very personally (drama-queen stereotype minus the RP).
- Not inviting her [makes her whine and groan] for "leaving her out."
- She will complain to half the remaining players and make them feel bad about playing [if left out].
Why the heck do y'all put up with that kind of emo garbage?!
What you've got on your hands is classic: she whines when left at home, groans when told to go watch TV or something, rolls eyes, huffs, forces herself upon the group, and then has the audacity to gripe about blood and violence in a game that's built around combat, to insist upon playing in said game a character that has no business being there, and to erase everyone else's fun because she can't have any. There's a word for girls like this, but I can't type it here.
If you continue to let this hyper-sensitive, uncaring, selfish, attention hog railroad your games, you'll soon find that after she's demoralized everyone in the room and destroyed everyone else's fun (in the name of hers), she'll have finally gotten what she wanted; that is, to suck the life and happiness out of everyone she knows.
Or...just get a big stick, and use it on her behind.
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Sounds like this is an issue of their relationship, and she feels she's competing with you guys for her boyfriend's attention. As a result, she is doing her best to ruin Game Night for her boyfriend and guilt-trip him into quitting the group. Nothing you can do (short of ending Game Night altogether, or her INSTIGATING a drama that forces the boyfriend to choose between her and Game Night... which IS her actual objective) will make her happy.
She is on a sabotage mission. She's projecting the issues that they are having on you guys, and it's not your responsibility and you guys have no obligation to her.
Sounds to me like you need to talk to the boyfriend and come up with a solution, with this in mind. Perhaps a compromise is in order, or maintenance of the status quo, but Step One is that you and the boyfriend at least become aware of what's going on.