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Is it possible to retrain a feat? Example I am playing an el3 level rogue and took Martial weapon prof Halfing war sling and found out that I was suffering a large negitive modifer firing into melee.
So when I leveled I took a level of fighter and took Point Blak Shot.
I gained all martial weapons for taking fighter do I just loose a feat slot at el 3 for taking martial weapon Prof Halfling staffsling?
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I don't recall there being any general retraining rules in PF, just the specific ones for Fighter bonus feats and similar. By RAW, you still have to keep your war sling feat and do not get any other benefit. Your GM may be lenient, or he may be hard and point out you just got a whole catagory of weapon proficiencies for free just by multiclassing into Fighter.
just as example our GM has a houserule that every 4 levels you can swap one old feat for 1 new feat as long as it dosen't break pre-req chains or is a feat you wouldn't have been able to to take when you took the old feat your swapping out.
I think as long as you haven't used a feat for an entire level, it should be okay to swap it out at next level. Doesn't help the OP, but that's what I got.
as long as you don't swap it for a feat you didn't meet the pre-reqs for during the last level that would be acceptable as well.
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If you take more levels in fighter I think you can retrain feats anyway. I would ask him if I could do it then in place of a fighter bonus feat since effectively you gained Martial Weapon Proficiency twice. I'd think that'd be fair, though I'd probably have just let you switch it out in the first place.
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My houserule has always been that if you take a feat but later are granted that same feat as bonus from a class or prestige class, then you can select another feat in its place. It isn't RAW but it makes sense to me that you don't have to learn what you already know. Instead you can take that time to learn something else.
Personally I'd make you keep it. You could have taken Combat Trick as a level 4 rogue talent and used the feat to take Point Blank Shot. You could then take Precise Shot at level 5 regardless of what class you chose.
But then again, I'm a bit of a stickler for things like that. A merciful GM may let you retrain.
There's no Paizo official rule on this. WotC had retraining rules I believe in PHB2. In those, you're allowed to change one "element" each level. So when your rogue 3 hits 4th level, you can change one feat or skill assignment. When you hit 5th, you can change one more. And so on.
My group plays by those rules but... we always ask DM permission just in case, and we don't do it often. Sometimes you find out three levels down that your tripping-fighter just doesn't use it very often, or that your Weapon Focus (ghetto weapon) wasn't a good choice. We never drop things like Toughness or anything really obvious.
In-character, basically the PC didn't get GOOD at whatever the feat granted, let those talents rust, and started learning something else. If a wizard can be assumed to be researching and learning two new spells per level while doing everything else he does, why can't a PC retrain a feat as long as it's reasonable?
I don't consider myself merciful... I consider myself conscious of the idea that my players are playing to have fun, and build features set in concrete that don't work out to be fun are... not fun.
I don't consider myself merciful... I consider myself conscious of the idea that my players are playing to have fun, and build features set in concrete that don't work out to be fun are... not fun.
+1
There's no Paizo official rule on this. WotC had retraining rules I believe in PHB2. In those, you're allowed to change one "element" each level. So when your rogue 3 hits 4th level, you can change one feat or skill assignment. When you hit 5th, you can change one more. And so on.
My group plays by those rules but... we always ask DM permission just in case, and we don't do it often. Sometimes you find out three levels down that your tripping-fighter just doesn't use it very often, or that your Weapon Focus (ghetto weapon) wasn't a good choice. We never drop things like Toughness or anything really obvious.
In-character, basically the PC didn't get GOOD at whatever the feat granted, let those talents rust, and started learning something else. If a wizard can be assumed to be researching and learning two new spells per level while doing everything else he does, why can't a PC retrain a feat as long as it's reasonable?
I don't consider myself merciful... I consider myself conscious of the idea that my players are playing to have fun, and build features set in concrete that don't work out to be fun are... not fun.
This is very similar to how our group plays it. Sometimes a player just makes a poor choice. I don't see the harm in allowing a player to swap that over time if they find they made a poor choice early in the character's development.
So for the OP it likely comes down to talking it over with your GM to see what their call is.
I have no hard and fast rules, but if a player comes to me and asks whether he can swap out a feat he hasn't really used, I'll let him switch. The character must still be "legal" afterward (no swapping your first-level feat on 1st-level to have two feats with an effective prerequisite of level 7 on level 7), but other than that, I do not sweat the small stuff overmuch.
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I have no hard and fast rules, but if a player comes to me and asks whether he can swap out a feat he hasn't really used, I'll let him switch. The character must still be "legal" afterward (no swapping your first-level feat on 1st-level to have two feats with an effective prerequisite of level 7 on level 7), but other than that, I do not sweat the small stuff overmuch.
+1.. Specially as I may come from time to time with new feats to offer to my players and they wish they had chosen it. Of course it must not break a prereq or smthg else.
But I understand that's DM's choice.
BUMP on this. Anything from the APG or DMG or upcoming PHB 2 to indicate there will be any official ruling on this?
I think as long as you haven't used a feat for an entire level, it should be okay to swap it out at next level. Doesn't help the OP, but that's what I got.as long as you don't swap it for a feat you didn't meet the pre-reqs for during the last level that would be acceptable as well.
This is my own houserule. If you want to retrain a feat, you have to not use that feat for one entire level. If you've done that, then when you next level, you can switch it out. If it's a class bonus feat, only for another class bonus feat at the same level. And not if it's a pre-req for feats you have (although, you can work your way down the tree each level, so get rid of the most advanced feat, then get rid of it's pre-requisite).
Blast from the past!
Hey, I'm not the one that performed the resurrection on the thread. :)
Personally I'd make you keep it. You could have taken Combat Trick as a level 4 rogue talent and used the feat to take Point Blank Shot. You could then take Precise Shot at level 5 regardless of what class you chose.
But then again, I'm a bit of a stickler for things like that. A merciful GM may let you retrain.
Though you may not intend it that way, this kind of character development is pretty adversarial to players.
An exaggerated example of this style is found in D&D 3rd edition's Epic Level Handbook. Once a character hits 20th level, they never gain extra attacks from Base Attack Bonus increases. This means that an example Fighter 21 will only have a BAB 21/16/11/6, and will not gain a fifth attack of a base +1. An example Wizard 21 will have a BAB 10/5, and will never gain a third attack from increasing his Base Attack Bonus.
So you can have two different characters -- a Fighter20/Wizard20, and a Wizard20/Fighter20. While they have the same equipment, feats, skills and whatnot, there remains one big difference; one of them has a BAB of +30/25/20/15, and the other has a BAB of +30/25.
The fact is, not all people know what they're doing to be doing at 40 when they're 20, and not all level 10 characters know what they're going to be doing at level 20. Sometimes people walk in with a character concept, but during play they realize that their concept needs to grow beyond their initial expectations. This has happened to me mechanically in Pathfinder when the campaign turned out to feature lots of traps and the party wanted me to pick up some disabling ability; this happened to me conceptually in a modern gamesystem when I intended to build a scientist, and he began to embrace his family's mysticism.
Pathfinder is already very easy on characters that are created at a high level, compared to the harsh existences of characters developed from level one. While level 1 characters have to deal with taking their money and buying, selling, upgrading and trading items out at a loss to get buy, level 10 characters take their wealth by level and spend it as they wish unless otherwise limited by the GM. Where a level 1 Wizard has to think about allocating his high stats to Constitution instead of Strength for the sake of survivability (or sacrificing that 18 in Intelligence for a higher Dex and Con for a point-buy game), a tenth level Batman has the luxury of focusing on Intelligence as he pleases.
This particular feat refund can be explained, if you wish. As he gains a level in Fighter, he doesn't need to focus on learning how to use halfling war slings; and the concepts already learned in its use logically apply to other ranged weapons, meaning less time required in becoming proficient with them. This additional time and practice could be where the new feat comes from.
Such an assumption costs the GM nothing. It can be glossed over with no suspension of disbelief required, and everyone will have forgotten about it by the next session.
You are by no means obligated by the rules to refund the feat, of course. The book says what the book says. Yet this isn't going to improve the game, and only serves to punish players with organic character concepts, or players who actually raise their character from first level compared to players who drop in a designer character at level ten. While you have an obligation to remain consistent to the rules, you also have an obligation to maintain game balance and present a fun game. I recommend you weigh those priorities.
That wasn't one month old. That was one year, one month old.
There is no emoticon for this.
I give you a two years, two months bump
Why ?
Retraining RAWs are part of the Ultimate Campaign book :Paizo PRD - Retraining
Owner - La Guarida Game Center
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I give you a two years, two months bump
Why ?
Retraining RAWs are part of the Ultimate Campaign book :Paizo PRD - Retraining
Because I had been looking for a few hours to find retraining in the few books i own, and was not able to find that, this was the only thread, slightly closing in on the subject, so I thought it would be nice, that future searchers, could find the answer here!
(I hope that's reason enough for you)
yes you can
the pathfinder retrain rules are in ultimate campaign page 188
but in the end it is down to your GM
The amount of necro in this thread is real.