I'm wondering what people think are the best two weapon combinations for rogues. I'm probably thinking of Weapon Finesse.
My current choices are really:
1. Sabre
4Winds, Luven Lightfingers's Gear & Treasure p.14
Sabre 12 gp 1d4 1d6 18-20/x2 —- 4 lbs. Slashing
2. Rapier
Paizo Core
Rapier 20 gp 1d4 1d6 18–20/×2 — 2 lbs. P
Both of these can be used with weapon finesse. The Sabre is functionally a heavier Rapier that does slashing damage. I like to think that the heavier blade is more robust (just fluff I know).
*I know there is also the Aldore Dueling Sword that does more damage and is slashing too. This guy is just starting out and I think he'd be using more common weaponry, and not burning the feat.
Does anyone know options for turning a piercing or slashing weapon into other damage types?
Sigurd
On 2WF in general for rogues it honestly dosen't matter what weapons your using , the bulk of your damage comes from sneak attack and the rogue special attacks.
as far as pericing vs slashing again really dosen't matter except again a few very specific monsters and some DR types.
you can even use one piercing and one slashing weapon if you want to cover both bases.
base die weapon damage is basically irrevant for a rogue.
choose weapons for fluff ;)
Honestly my answer is "neither". While both are very nice weapons I strongly recommend that you use only one type of weapon for two weapon, such as 2 short swords or 2 daggers. Both the weapons you listed are one-handed weapons instead of light weapons so unless there is a rules change I'm not aware of you'll have to use a light weapons as your secondary weapon OR suck up a huge penalty.
The advantage of using two of the same weapons is that an weapon specific feats (improved crit, weapon focus) will apply to both weapons. Also if you find/buy a new and better weapon you can take your currently second best one and use it off-hand.
If you are going to use two of the same weapon I strongly recommend daggers. They are ranged weapons so you can throw them if you need to, particularly if you pick up a few returning daggers. There are plenty of times when wearing a sword is not appropriate but a dagger could be. After all in medieval times it was frequently the main eating utensil. It's also something you are likely to find just about anywhere if you get separated from your best ones.
If you really want to go with one of the two weapons you mentioned I'd take the rapier. The biggest reason is treasure. Rapier is a common weapon but Sabre isn't. Unless your GM is a huge fan of usual weapons the only time you will get a better one is 1) if you specifically go out and buy it or 2) he put it in there solely to give you a weapon upgrade.
You're right about the light weapons. I think my group missed that.
I think I'll work with Kukris unless I find a particular dagger or something.
I'll have to check the math for others dual wielding rapiers etc....
Thanks All.
Is there a magic enchantment to make weapons Slash, Puncture, or Bludgeon (as appropriate)?
S
Rapier is considered a light weapon so your original idea of Rapier and something else should work. Scimatar/Rapier combo might not be a bad combo or Dagger/Rapier or even Short Sword/Rapier.
Rapier is considered a light weapon so your original idea of Rapier and something else should work. Scimatar/Rapier combo might not be a bad combo or Dagger/Rapier or even Short Sword/Rapier.
Well, technically a Rapier is considered a light weapon for the purpose of the Weapon Finesse feat only.
EDIT: I stand partially corrected, it seems that it bears the same penalties as a light weapon for two-handed wielding (as is, no extra Str bonus).PRD -> Equipment:
"Rapier: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. You can't wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage."
So, a TWF with a Rapier in his Off-hand would still suffer from the -4/-4 penalty (it is listed as a One-handed Martial weapon, after all).
Just my 2c.
Well I will be damned but your right The Wraith. That sure puts an end to my ideas for a rogue two weapon fighter type.
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Are you sold on TWF for character reasons? Because it has been mathematically proven to be less effective than having a higher strength and using a 2hander, even for a Rogue.
If you use a 2hander you'll hit more frequently and have better gear since you won't have to pay to enchant two weapons, and your friendly neighborhood caster will only have to GMW one weapon instead of two (if we even would use a spell on the second weapon).
If your heart is set on TWF, I'd say go with short swords. Its a good balance of damage and crit range and it won't cost you a feat like kukris or scimitars.
PRD -> Equipment:"Rapier: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. You can't wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage."
So, a TWF with a Rapier in his Off-hand would still suffer from the -4/-4 penalty (it is listed as a One-handed Martial weapon, after all).
That detail is what started me looking at the whole question.
I'm not super sold on two weapon fighting but it is fun to have more attacks. I have a gestalt Rogue\Fighter and for once I will have all the feats I want to play with.
I'm leaning to twin kukris and probably everything I can do to maximize full attacks. I'll listen to more powerful builds but I'm liking the dance through battle kill the enemy thing right now.
If you use a 2hander you'll hit more frequently
For my own edification, can you tell me where this knowledge comes from?
Also, if you want your rogue to use a 2H weapon then you have to use a feat to take martial weapon prof. That's not to say they don't have enough options to take it, it's just one less feat you could use for something else.
If you use a 2hander you'll hit more frequently
For my own edification, can you tell me where this knowledge comes from?
no -2 on attacks = hit more often.
also see the DPR olympics thread
I'm not sure I believe 3 attacks without a -2 penalty would hit more often than 6 attacks with it, but I'm sure there are math majors out there that will prove me wrong. I took one look at the DRP Olympics and decided I liked playing the game too much to read too far into it.
I am in no way putting down anyone who wants to optimize based on math, or anyone that puts a lot of stock in such things. I suppose if your going with a brute rogue then I can see the 2H weapon use, but it's just a little strange to me.
Apologies for the thread hijack.
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PRD -> Equipment:"Rapier: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. You can't wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage."
So, a TWF with a Rapier in his Off-hand would still suffer from the -4/-4 penalty (it is listed as a One-handed Martial weapon, after all).
That detail is what started me looking at the whole question.
I'm not super sold on two weapon fighting but it is fun to have more attacks. I have a gestalt Rogue\Fighter and for once I will have all the feats I want to play with.
I'm leaning to twin kukris and probably everything I can do to maximize full attacks. I'll listen to more powerful builds but I'm liking the dance through battle kill the enemy thing right now.
Except of course you won't be dancing through battle too much. Movement = death of the TWF tree. If the enemies are played smart, TWF isn't all that hot. One of my player loves TWF and is being VERY frustrated that my enemies don't stand still and let her blender them.