Making a sorcerer with MAX spells known

[Ravingdork]

I want to see how powerful a sorcerer with a ton of spells known really is. As such, I've decided to create a sorcerer who has as many spells known as possible. I might even playtest it some if the opportunity presents itself.

I've decided to make it human (obviously) for the bonus feat and the favored class option. It will be an Arcane bloodline sorcerer since they get 3 bonus spells known as a class ability. I will also be spending all the characters general feats on Expanded Arcana.

My question, however, is what spells should I take? I have a preference for sorcerers with "spell themes" of some kind. I also like them to be good and powerful too.

Which spells would you fill into the following slots?

0.....16...14...n/a
1st....9...10...identify
2nd...9...8.....invisibility
3rd...8....7....dispel magic
4th...9....8....dimension door
5th...8....7....overland flight
6th...8....7....true seeing
7th...7....6....greater teleport
8th...9....8....power word: stun
9th...3....4....wish

FIRST COLUMN: Spell level
SECOND COLUMN: Spells Known (using expanded arcana to get 2 lower-level spells each time)
THIRD COLUMN: Spells Known (using expanded arcana to get highest possible spell
FOURTH COLUMN: Additional bonus spells from the Arcane bloodline

[W E Ray]

In the Complete Arcane there is a Feat called "Extra Spell" that gives a Sorcerer an extra Spell Known (one level lower than his max spell level).

Some DMs don't allow this Feat. (Though most will still allow a Wizard, Cleric or Druid to take "Extra Spell Slot.")

[Fnipernackle]

theres a new feat in the apg that allows a spontaneous caster to get either 1 more spell known of the highest level he can cast or 2 spells known of any other level other than the highest he can cast.

[The Chort]

Fnipernackle wrote:

theres a new feat in the apg that allows a spontaneous caster to get either 1 more spell known of the highest level he can cast or 2 spells known of any other level other than the highest he can cast.

*sigh* Otherwise known as Expanded Arcana, which is in his original post. ...and it's better than Extra Spell from Complete Arcane.

Although personally, as interesting as it is to try and max out spells known, I think between the spells you learn from leveling, the human sorc favored class spells, and the bloodline spells, I'd start spending my feats on other things. ...but fun nonetheless to have that much versatility as a Sorcerer.

[h0rnman]

If you're going to go with 3.x material, you may want to give Sand Shaper (Sandstorm: p. 76) a look. You will loose 2 levels of casting, but in return, as a sorcerer, you get 43 extra spells known over 9 levels (and they're themed, too). Some are of questionable usefulness, but it almost doubles your base spells known.

[magnuskn]

The Chort wrote:

Fnipernackle wrote:

theres a new feat in the apg that allows a spontaneous caster to get either 1 more spell known of the highest level he can cast or 2 spells known of any other level other than the highest he can cast.

*sigh* Otherwise known as Expanded Arcana, which is in his original post. ...and it's better than Extra Spell from Complete Arcane.

Although personally, as interesting as it is to try and max out spells known, I think between the spells you learn from leveling, the human sorc favored class spells, and the bloodline spells, I'd start spending my feats on other things. ...but fun nonetheless to have that much versatility as a Sorcerer.

But wait... according to the people who think that the new favoured class bonus is "ZOMG Overpowah'd!", having extra spells will make your Sorcerer be much more powerful than any comparable Sorcerer. :p

[james maissen]

Ravingdork wrote:

My question, however, is what spells should I take?

There is no one best sorcerer list.

Sorcerers need to be made all at once, not in pieces.

You want to coordinate feats and gear into this, and if possible the remainder of the party.

-James

[Ravingdork]

magnuskn wrote:

The Chort wrote:

Fnipernackle wrote:

theres a new feat in the apg that allows a spontaneous caster to get either 1 more spell known of the highest level he can cast or 2 spells known of any other level other than the highest he can cast.

*sigh* Otherwise known as Expanded Arcana, which is in his original post. ...and it's better than Extra Spell from Complete Arcane.

Although personally, as interesting as it is to try and max out spells known, I think between the spells you learn from leveling, the human sorc favored class spells, and the bloodline spells, I'd start spending my feats on other things. ...but fun nonetheless to have that much versatility as a Sorcerer.

But wait... according to the people who think that the new favoured class bonus is "ZOMG Overpowah'd!", having extra spells will make your Sorcerer be much more powerful than any comparable Sorcerer. :p

Figuring out whether or not it is overpowered is part of what this is all about.

Also, please keep it to modern Pathfinder material please. Much of what came out of v3.5 is so broken that I fear it would skew any reasonable playtest.

[Name Violation]

personally i think it makes a lot more sense to buy scrolls of a bunch of different spells and spend the feats on things that are a little more useful, like upping the dc's of spells and metamagic feats.

[PathfinderEspañol]

I have choosen a few spells and I haven't finished because that's a lot of spells. Looks like I can have all the spells I need, except some 9th level spell.

[Charlie Bell]

You'd have too many spells to really stick to a theme. So really, the question is, what are the most useful spells at each level? Here's what I'd take, given the free arcane bloodline spells and taking the highest level from Expanded Arcana:

0- everything except flare, daze, bleed, and touch of fatigue
1- color spray, mage armor, shield, magic missile, prot. alignment, grease, true strike, ray of enfeeblement, enlarge person, expeditious retreat
2- glitterdust, web, mirror image, scorching ray, blindness/deafness, false life, rope trick, bull's strength, resist energy
3- haste, magic circle, fireball, fly, stinking cloud, displacement, tiny hut, gaseous form
4- greater invisibility, black tentacles, enervation, wall of fire, summon monster IV, scrying, beast shape II, stoneskin
5- teleport, cloudkill, summon monster V, hold monster, wall of force, telekinesis, permanency
6- antimagic field, greater dispel magic, repulsion, acid fog, summon monster VI, disintegrate, contingency
7- plane shift, summon monster VII, power word blind, limited wish, finger of death, forcecage
8- mind blank, maze, summon monster VIII, polymorph any object, incendiary cloud, moment of prescience, greater planar binding, horrid wilting
9- time stop, summon monster IX, dominate monster, mage's disjunction

[Senevri]

I actually found use for the slots. I'm surprised.

This is my theme list, with the theme of reality warper.

14 detect poison, detect magic, read magic, message, mage hand, mending, open/close, prestidigitation, ghost sound, create ice, dancing lights, light, arcane mark,
10 obscuring mist, unseen servant, silent image, enlarge person, reduce person, ant haul, ventriloquism, true strike, alarm, protection from evil, identify*
9 alter self, pyrotechnics, levitate, mirror image, knock, make whole, see invisibility, locate object, invisibility*
8 fly, gaseous form, shrink item, haste, clairaudience/clairvoyance', greater magic weapon, vampiric touch, tongues, dispel magic*
9 stone shape, shadow conjuration, black tentacles, greater invisibility, locate creature, minor creation, solid fog, scrying, dimensional anchor, dimension door*
8 fabricate, mirage arcana, shadow evocation, telekinesis, wall of force, telepathic bond, wall of stone, sending, overland flight*
8 control water, move earth, mislead, disintegrate', hardening, permanent image, antimagic field, greater dispel magic, true seeing*
7 limited wish, spell turning, control weather, greater shadow conjuration, reverse gravity, simulacrum, ethereal jaunt, greater teleport*
8 polymorph any object, greater shadow evocation, moment of prescience, telekinetic sphere, mind blank, greater prying eyes, antipathy, binding, power word:stun*
4 time stop, shades, shapechange, gate, wish*

[Ravingdork]

We get enough of these lists and I can cross reference them to see what spells keep popping up again and again. Get a feel for what's popular and worthwhile.

[YawarFiesta]

You really don`t need more cantrips so I think the first 3 Expanded Arcanas are redundant and would be better spent in metamagic, however this my partial list:

• Detect magic, Detect poison, Dancing lights, Mending, Ghost Sound
• Magic Missiles, Grease, Silent Image, True Strike, Mount, Ray of Enfeeblement, Charm Person, *Identify
• Glitterdust, Resist Energy, Create Pit, Levitate, Mirror Image, *Invisibility
• Magic cicle of Protecion from Evil, Orb of Aqueos, Stinking Cloud, Phantom Steed, Seelt Storm, Heroism, Tiny Hut *Dispel Magic
• Black Tentacles, Confusion, Dimensional Archon, Enervation,Stoneslin, *Dimensional Door
• Dominate Person, Cloud Kill, Wall of Force,*Overland Flight
• Antimagic Field, Greater Dispel Magic, Create Undead, Disintegrate, Contingency,*True Seeing
• Spell Turning, Banishment,Forcecage, Graping Hand, Reverse Gravity, Limited Wish, *Greater Teleport
• GreterPlanar Biding, Sunburst,Moment of Prescience, Mass Suffocation, Polymorph any Object,*Power Word: Stun
• Time Stop, SMIX, Dominate Monster, Mage's Disjunction, *Wish

[YawarFiesta]

Hmm.. weird. I can't edit my post.

Humbly,
Yawar

[Carbon D. Metric]

My suggestion it to keep maybe 1-2 damage/offensive type spells per spell level and simply spread the rest of them out over utility, situational, and support spells.

Spellcasters can make decent nukers but I really don't think they fit the mold as neatly as many people seem to wish. Control, utility, and support are your main tools.

[Michael Brock]

bump for dot