Face_P0lluti0n
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I don't know how well it would work mechanically, but it sounds like a really sweet idea.
I think I'd make Geralt be 2/3 Alchemist levels, 1/3 either Fighter or Ranger (with the Two-Handed Weapon combat style) levels, in order to keep his Alchemist progression strong, and of course, focus heavily on Mutagens over bombs. As a monster hunter, he would have monster knowledge not unlike the favored enemy class feature, most likely in Magical Beast or Aberration.
I would assume most other Witchers would follow this pattern as well. Alchemist/Ranger sounds like a Witcher to me.
| AlQahir |
I disagree with the fighter alchemist build for a couple of reasons. I think only 1/3 the alchemist's abilities apply to Geralt. I know he was "mutated" using potions and the like, but I think that is a little different then how the mutagens in the game work. From playing the game and reading a couple of the books I don't recall Geralt ever really hulking out like I visualize with the alchemist mutagens. Bombs don't fit either. In fusions do fit. Then there is the magic aspect of Geralt. Alchemist doesn't really cover that aspect either. I think ranger (for favored enemy flavor) and sorcerer combination would cover a witcher. Even better I think a 1-20 base class fighter/mage would be the best because then spell progression is built in. I don't know when you are going to play your witcher but see what the magus has to offer when the play test comes out. If it is too focused on magic take a couple of levels of ranger or fighter.
To add potions to the class take the brew potion feat and work it from that angle. You could even do the barbarian/sorcerer combo so you can take levels in the archetype that lets you drink a potion faster.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
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I was thinking I could use the alchemist and fighter classes to emulate a witcher from Andrzej Sapkowski's book series. How feasible does that sound?
Since "The Witcher" is actually one of the main inspirations for the alchemist (along with Dr. Jekyll and mad scientists of all sorts)... using an alchemist as a Witcher should work more or less perfectly. If you want to make him full-on into a Witcher, you might only need to give the alchemist a full BAB and d10 hit dice and access to all martial weapons. Not very balanced when it comes to the other classes... but then again, the Witcher isn't supposed to be "balanced." It's more or less the best choice in that world... kind of like how Jedi are the best choice in Star Wars.
| ErrantConstruct |
ErrantConstruct wrote:I was thinking I could use the alchemist and fighter classes to emulate a witcher from Andrzej Sapkowski's book series. How feasible does that sound?Since "The Witcher" is actually one of the main inspirations for the alchemist (along with Dr. Jekyll and mad scientists of all sorts)... using an alchemist as a Witcher should work more or less perfectly. If you want to make him full-on into a Witcher, you might only need to give the alchemist a full BAB and d10 hit dice and access to all martial weapons. Not very balanced when it comes to the other classes... but then again, the Witcher isn't supposed to be "balanced." It's more or less the best choice in that world... kind of like how Jedi are the best choice in Star Wars.
Hahaha, indeed witchers are meant to be awesome. Sadly I doubt my DM would let me alter the class into such a wreaking ball. I guess multiclassing is my best bet for a solution that follows the rules.
| Cartigan |
ErrantConstruct wrote:I was thinking I could use the alchemist and fighter classes to emulate a witcher from Andrzej Sapkowski's book series. How feasible does that sound?Since "The Witcher" is actually one of the main inspirations for the alchemist (along with Dr. Jekyll and mad scientists of all sorts)... using an alchemist as a Witcher should work more or less perfectly.
I apparently need to read more into the book series because from what I know now, that doesn't make even the remotest amount of sense.
| ErrantConstruct |
James Jacobs wrote:I apparently need to read more into the book series because from what I know now, that doesn't make even the remotest amount of sense.ErrantConstruct wrote:I was thinking I could use the alchemist and fighter classes to emulate a witcher from Andrzej Sapkowski's book series. How feasible does that sound?Since "The Witcher" is actually one of the main inspirations for the alchemist (along with Dr. Jekyll and mad scientists of all sorts)... using an alchemist as a Witcher should work more or less perfectly.
I take it you agree with ALQahir then?
The more I read about the alchemist the less it seems appropriate for use as a witcher. He was a mainly melee fighter with some magic he could throw out and made potions to buff himself. The alchemist seems to be a scrawny guy who uses tons of magical potions or bombs to do damage. Even if I went just extracts and mutagens, which don't really work for a witcher, there aren't a great deal of buff formulae on the alchemist list.
| AlQahir |
That does make sense. The reason I thought to use the alchemist was because they could make a lot of potions easily and the mutagens. I read more about the mutagen and they don't really fit. I'll take a look at a sorcerer / ranger build.
Where can I find more about this magus class?
The Magus class is a fighter/mage base class that is going to be released in the forthcoming Ultimate Magic book. The book is going to be released next April, but the paizo staff has said their will be a play test for the class in the near future. At this time there aren't many details about the class, although Mr. Jacobs has said it is likely to be d8 3/4 BAB with 3/4 spell progression, built on the framework of the bard, summoner, and inquisitor.
I hate to disagree with Mr. Jacobs, and Geralt being inspiration for the alchemist class aside full alchemist seems incongruous with Geralt and witchers. If you were home brewing the class I would take a ranger and remove his animal companion and replace it with infusions and then I would alter the spell list to be more arcane. How much of each is a delicate question of balance, but I think that would be the closest representation. If you are following RAW. Ranger/sorcerer with a dip into alchemist for infusions or just the craft potion feat.
Timespike
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I'd agree with the "prevailing wisdom" in here that ranger/alchemist seems the way to go. I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but I wonder if maybe a few levels of psychic warrior wouldn't also be a good choice - the effects of the magic Geralt uses could be replicated that way, I'd think.
| The Black Bard |
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I can only speak from the view of the Witcher PC games, but in regards to that, here I go:
One, I agree with James, the Witcher IS the BEST choice within that world. But then we get to the real issue: choice.
Witcher's don't get one. Witchers aren't born, they are made. If anything, it would be combo of a template and the alchemist class.
+2 to all physical scores, maybe even +2 to all mentals (Geralt in the game seemed to be just an overall superior specimen, but perhaps that is who he was before becoming a witcher).
Immunity to disease. Sterile. Distinctive physical change that shows others you are a witcher.
After that, from playing the game, I think alchemist does line up perfectly.
Uses alchemical mixtures to buff, heal, and utility.
Uses bombs offensively, on occasion.
Uses a mutagen to gain advantages in combat.
Is a competent fighter.
In the game, there were plenty of better fighters than Geralt, and it was his alchemical advantages that carried the day.
A big thing to visualize when trying to stat existing characters and concepts is how they relate to the human commoner, aka, the benchmark for normal. Poor base attack, d6 hp (average 3, maybe 4 with a good con), poor saves, 2 skill points.
Conversely, an alchemist with average base attack, d8 hp, a good save, and so on, is markedly superior. In a world where PC classes are rare (in the game there were a couple of fighters, sorcerors, maybe a rogue, but most were warriors or even experts, in my mind).
Remember, average base attack is NOT "average". Its the base attack of backstabbing, street-fighting rogues, clerics crusading in their diety's name, druids fighting with the savagery of nature, and monks finding enlightenment through physical, spiritual, and martial discipline. Average base attack characters are good fighters. Full base attack characters are GREAT fighters, because that is basically all that they do.
| KB Tremblay |
I strongly disagree with using a fighter or Alchemist to represent a witcher and so I had to make my first post in response :).
It sounds like a lot of folks are basing their opinions on the video game which (pun intended) do not properly represent the character Geralt in the novels. Most have not been translated to English, but I highly recommend at least reading the Last Wish. Fantastic book.
IMO, based on the actual books, a good representation of a Witcher is to take a bard and replace the perform feats with the brew potions and poisons feats. Here’s why:
Melee
Geralt only wears leather or studded leather armor. The only weapons he uses are longswords, dagger, weighted chain for trip attacks and some unarmed attacks like brawling and striking with studded bracers. He is an effective swordsman but never engages in ‘front line’ battles. He usually ambushes/surprises a single target, rarely fighting multiple foes. In one instance he avoids fighting a group of four brigands, stating he would likely not survive. He doesn’t show any great feats of strength but regularly displays exceptional agility, reflexes and dodging.
Magic
Athough Geralt does cast spells, in Pathfinder terms, they are all of first or second level arcane abilities. The spells he casts in the books three books I’ve read are hold portal, charm person, shield, hold person and something sim iliar to a magic missile. Geralt displays a dim view of wizards, sorcerers and magic in general. He views conjuring/summoning creatures dangerous to the land and avoids teleportation and other forms of magical travel.
Alchemy
Geralt displays a great amount of alchemy knowledge but again, the potions he creates only produce first or second level spell effects. These are increasing his dexterity, inducing a three day feign death and darkvision. He can brew poisons specific for certain supernatural creatures and knows some preventive healing knowledge.
Mutations
Here’s where things get a bit tricky. Geralt clearly states that witchers are sterile mutants created by conducting Alchemy experiments on orphans. His mutations slow his heartbeat, breathing and general metabolism. He can dilate his pupils and release adrenaline at will. Again, nothing that a first or second level spell can’t mimic.
So again, he’s pretty much a potion and poison brewing bard without perform abilities. Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to add some substance to my suggestion.
| Mr Crowley |
Personally, I think porting a witcher into a Pathfinder setting any martial class multiclassed with alchemist would fit. In the games, novels, and graphic novels, the witchers had several different schools. Geralt was from the Wolf school of witchers. Other schools are the Cat, the Griffon, and the Snake (Letho was from this school). Most of the schools trained their witchers in two handed fighting style aside from the snake school which specialized in short swords.
The Fighter/Alchemist is just as viable as a Ranger/Alchemist and even a Rogue(Ninja)/Alchemist would fit as in the novels Geralt underwent challenging acrobatic training. Personally, I think I would lean heavier towards the martial class with fewer levels in Alchemist to reflect the emphasis on physical combat but a full alchemist with the right weapon proficiency feats could pull it off as more of a scholastic type witcher who focused more on potions than combat training.
Another thing is in the witcher series the witchers where not just a profession they where mutated humans. In the books it does say they successfully mutated dogs also during experiments so perhaps other races could apply that would be a DM call.
My suggestion to make a witcher it would be a combination of a race or template in addition to the classes. I made a homebrew race that could also be used as a template slapped on a human in another thread.