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How does the Alchemist gain new extracts?
Two parts are obvious.
1) 1 per level
2) From a Wizards book.
However, there is a clause which is causing me some confusion.
"An alchemist can also add formulae to his book just like a wizard adds spells to his spellbook, using the same costs and time requirements."
Does this mean scrolls and research? I mean, that's a really lazy clause that not all DM's will take as that, if that's what it means. Some DM's go by the way clauses like that are written. If it doesn't explicitely say something, then it isn't allowed :\
It functions exactly like it says it does... in the same way a wizard can add spells to his spellbook. I don't see any confusion here. Simply look up how a wizard can otherwise add spells to his spellbook. I doubt many seasoned DM's would have a hard time with this particular issue...
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I agree this is pretty cut and dry. They clearly state they can add spells "in the same way a wizard can add spells to his spellbook." Reprinting that entire section would be a waste of space, as the process is detailed already, you just have to look it up. Im failing to see how else your DM is interpreting this...
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It's particularly confusing because alchemists can't use spell completion items.
Can you use scrolls to add spells to your book but not otherwise?
This is correct. For scrolls you must use a UMD check to cast them. They actually added an addendum to the section on learning spells specifically for this purpose as well to make things a little clearer "An alchemist does not need to decipher arcane writings before copying them." - Meaning that simply studying the scroll itself is enough to be able to copy it. No need to actually understand or use the thing, just taking notes really.
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The confusion is because alchemists cannot use scrolls. The assumption is that if you can't use a scroll you can't scribe it either.
Looking at the spellbook section it seems like transcribing a scroll should work since you aren't actually using the spell completion item so much as just learning it's contents.
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. He cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until he gains another rank in Spellcraft. If the spell was from a scroll, a failed Spellcraft check does not cause the spell to vanish.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
You are learning from the scroll not using it... um yeah.
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The confusion is because alchemists cannot use scrolls. The assumption is that if you can't use a scroll you can't scribe it either.
Looking at the spellbook section it seems like transcribing a scroll should work since you aren't actually using the spell completion item so much as just learning it's contents.
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. He cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until he gains another rank in Spellcraft. If the spell was from a scroll, a failed Spellcraft check does not cause the spell to vanish.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
You are learning from the scroll not using it... um yeah.
The neat thing about alchemist is that you don't even need to roll spellcraft to learn the spell from the scroll. It just automatically works.
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Wait, really? Where does it say that?
Page 28 right along with the rest of the rules on it.
An alchemist can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains. A wizard, however, cannot learn spells from a formula book. An alchemist does not need to decipher arcane writings before copying them.
And the bit about deciphering spells from the corebook as quoted before as well.
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.
The spellcraft check it the mechanical process by which a spell is deciphered. It states clear as day that the alchemist skips said process. To me I interpet as flavoring in the form of the alchemist browsing over the magic and getting the gist of it before writing down his own formulae based off of it. This is in itself backed up by the fact that no 2 alchemists can copy each others work and thus meaning that each would have unique "recipies" bases off the same spell.
I hope this helps.
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Wait, really? Where does it say that?Page 28 right along with the rest of the rules on it.
An alchemist can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains. A wizard, however, cannot learn spells from a formula book. An alchemist does not need to decipher arcane writings before copying them.
And the bit about deciphering spells from the corebook as quoted before as well.
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.The spellcraft check it the mechanical process by which a spell is deciphered. It states clear as day that the alchemist skips said process. To me I interpet as flavoring in the form of the alchemist browsing over the magic and getting the gist of it before writing down his own formulae based off of it. This is in itself backed up by the fact that no 2 alchemists can copy each others work and thus meaning that each would have unique "recipies" bases off the same spell.
I hope this helps.
I fail to see where in the book it says that an Alchemist can't copy another formule. Only Wizards.
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An alchemist does not need to decipher arcane writings before copying them.
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll: No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level).
The spellcraft check it the mechanical process by which a spell is deciphered. It states clear as day that the alchemist skips said process.
He still needs to make the spellcraft check to study the spell, no?
Wizard:
Step 1: Decipher (spellcraft check DC20+SpLv or read magic)
Step 2: Study (spellcraft check DC15+SpLv)
Alchemist:
Step 1: He doesn't need to decipher
Step 2: Study (spellcraft check DC15+SpLv)
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You can read scrolls without using read magic simple by making a high enough spellcraft check.
See the section in the Magic Chapter "Arcane Magical Writings"
Also, an alchemist could not make an extract of fireball because it's not on his spell list.
Can an alchemist copy magic missile as a formula if he finds a wizard's spell book that has it?
My friend is saying yes becuase it says an alchemist can copy spells as formulas into his formula book. I'm confused please help.
No, an alchemist can only learn a formula if it appears on the alchemist class spell(formula) list. Even if an alchemist found a spellbook with every wizard spell inside, he is still restricted to those that appear on the alchemist's spell list.
That's like asking if a wizard can copy cure light wounds into his spellbook if he finds a scroll of it. CLW is not on the wizard spell list, so he can not learn it.
And seriously? Magic Missile? Why doesn't he just throw a bomb? Sure it's not an auto hit, but it should be easy enough and it will do more damage.
I'm sorry but after researching I am still unsure about how Alchemist learns new spells.
Can he learn from both wizard spelbooks and scrolls, minding the time and cost the same way wizard does? Is there or isn't there a spellcraft roll required?
Yes, he can learn from both wizard spellbooks and scrolls, as long as the spell is also on the alchemist spell list.
There is one spellcraft roll involved: (spellcraft check DC15+spell level)
to OP:
you should be copying from wizard's spellbooks when possible anyway, as it works out to be cheaper than buying scrolls. Yes, given enough time and money, you could learn every extract in the book. That's the whole *point* of playing a prepared spellcaster.