honestly why would you still be using this at a level you start getting multiple attacks ?
I mean there are so many better uses of your actions in combat at that level
low on daily spells? druid doesn't want to melee the enemy for some reason? monster is vulnerable to fire?honestly why would you still be using this at a level you start getting multiple attacks ?
I mean there are so many better uses of your actions in combat at that level
Low end fire vulnerable monster, and the druid wants to save his big stuff for later. In an elemental/animal form and wants another attack to go with his slams/pounce.
Two weapon fighting is another possibility (though not a very optimized one).
If you have no str bonus its better than a bow, making it very good as a ranged touch attack, especially in a slot you don't care much about.
In 3.0/3.5, I had an archer druid that used Rapid Shot with his produce flame spell. Very cool at 3rd level to cause 2d6+6 points of damage as a ranged touch attack. At 8th level, it was even cooler to do 3d6+15 points as a ranged touch attack, especially if my wardog was tanking and I already had a summoned beastie or 3 on the battlefield.
I would agree that you can launch multiples, or even two weapon fight with it, taking the appropriate penalties of course. While most spells seem like standard actions of their own, thats because the spell is the standard action, not the attack made at the end of it.
Of course, you can blow through the duration pretty quickly doing this, but thats just a balancing aspect of being able to throw fire around and make all the pyromaniacs jealous.
In 3.0/3.5, I had an archer druid that used Rapid Shot with his produce flame spell. Very cool at 3rd level to cause 2d6+6 points of damage as a ranged touch attack. At 8th level, it was even cooler to do 3d6+15 points as a ranged touch attack, especially if my wardog was tanking and I already had a summoned beastie or 3 on the battlefield.
In Pathfinder here's the damage progression
Level 1 1d6+1Level 2 1d6+2
Level 3 1d6+3
Level 4 1d6+4
Level 5 1d6+5 (Maximum)
which mean at 8th level you can do +6/+1 1d6+5 x2
and 15th level +11/+6/+1 1d6+5 x3
so yeah like I said why would you ever use this once you hit mid levels its just an ineffeicent way to fight.
and with stuff like call lightning that will last all combat as 1 spell I just can't see any druid ever getting that expended to ever fall back on this spell.
If produce flame could be applied to any natral attack that hits then it would be a very differnt story but as it is its a touch attack which means you can't add it to a melee attack for extra fire damage.
I've always interpreted the spell as meaning that only ranged attacks reduce the duration, not melee attacks. Is this how how everyone else sees it? Or should you reduce the duration for melee touch attacks, as well?
I've always interpreted the spell as meaning that only ranged attacks reduce the duration, not melee attacks. Is this how how everyone else sees it? Or should you reduce the duration for melee touch attacks, as well?
The spell does not specifically single out ranged attacks as reducing the duration, it says that every time you make an attack, you reduce the duration by one minute. That (to me) implies that every time you make an attack roll using this spell, you lose a minute off the time remaining, whether in melee or ranged.
In 3.0/3.5, I had an archer druid that used Rapid Shot with his produce flame spell. Very cool at 3rd level to cause 2d6+6 points of damage as a ranged touch attack. At 8th level, it was even cooler to do 3d6+15 points as a ranged touch attack, especially if my wardog was tanking and I already had a summoned beastie or 3 on the battlefield.In Pathfinder here's the damage progression
Level 1 1d6+1
Level 2 1d6+2
Level 3 1d6+3
Level 4 1d6+4
Level 5 1d6+5 (Maximum)which mean at 8th level you can do +6/+1 1d6+5 x2
and 15th level +11/+6/+1 1d6+5 x3so yeah like I said why would you ever use this once you hit mid levels its just an ineffeicent way to fight.
and with stuff like call lightning that will last all combat as 1 spell I just can't see any druid ever getting that expended to ever fall back on this spell.
If produce flame could be applied to any natral attack that hits then it would be a very differnt story but as it is its a touch attack which means you can't add it to a melee attack for extra fire damage.
I was using Rapid Shot, so my base attacks were +4/+4/-1 before Dex and stuff. ACTUALLY, it would have been 3d6+18 because of my Point Blank Shot feat! Assuming the target was within 30 feet....
I was using Rapid Shot, so my base attacks were +4/+4/-1 before Dex and stuff. ACTUALLY, it would have been 3d6+18 because of my Point Blank Shot feat! Assuming the target was within 30 feet....In 3.0/3.5, I had an archer druid that used Rapid Shot with his produce flame spell. Very cool at 3rd level to cause 2d6+6 points of damage as a ranged touch attack. At 8th level, it was even cooler to do 3d6+15 points as a ranged touch attack, especially if my wardog was tanking and I already had a summoned beastie or 3 on the battlefield.In Pathfinder here's the damage progression
Level 1 1d6+1
Level 2 1d6+2
Level 3 1d6+3
Level 4 1d6+4
Level 5 1d6+5 (Maximum)which mean at 8th level you can do +6/+1 1d6+5 x2
and 15th level +11/+6/+1 1d6+5 x3so yeah like I said why would you ever use this once you hit mid levels its just an ineffeicent way to fight.
and with stuff like call lightning that will last all combat as 1 spell I just can't see any druid ever getting that expended to ever fall back on this spell.
If produce flame could be applied to any natral attack that hits then it would be a very differnt story but as it is its a touch attack which means you can't add it to a melee attack for extra fire damage.
you applied rapid shot to the ranged touch attack granted by flame strike ? o.O
Rapid Shot
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.
maybe I'm reading it wrong but a ranged touch attack granted by a spell is not a ranged weapon.
and again I don't think point blank shot can be applied to elemental damage from a spell.
aside for either case each hit is only doing 1d6+5 fire damage, which would be negated by the weakest of resist 10 fire since the resist applies to each hit not the total.
but hey if your GM houseruled it and allowed the damage to stack I guess I can see it being mildly useful , but again could think of several better options.
In the original post, it says you can "hurl the flame like a thrown weapon" which is a type of ranged weapon, so there shouldn't be a problem using Rapid Shot with it.
Of course, each use (1d6+5 or 1d6+6 with Point Blank Shot, I actually forget if I remembered to add it on when I played that guy) would be subjected to any kind of fire resistance independently, but not EVERY CR 8 critter has fire resistance 10. Some are even vulnerable to fire! :-)
I've always interpreted the spell as meaning that only ranged attacks reduce the duration, not melee attacks. Is this how how everyone else sees it? Or should you reduce the duration for melee touch attacks, as well?The spell does not specifically single out ranged attacks as reducing the duration, it says that every time you make an attack, you reduce the duration by one minute. That (to me) implies that every time you make an attack roll using this spell, you lose a minute off the time remaining, whether in melee or ranged.
Well, that's the point that I'm not so sure about. Everything past the word "alternately" refers to ranged attacks, which is what makes me think that only ranged attacks reduce the duration.
In addition to providing illumination, the flames can be hurled or used to touch enemies. You can strike an opponent with a melee touch attack, dealing fire damage equal to 1d6 + 1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Alternatively, you can hurl the flames up to 120 feet as a thrown weapon. When doing so, you attack with a ranged touch attack (with no range penalty) and deal the same damage as with the melee attack. No sooner do you hurl the flames than a new set appears in your hand. Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves.