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Okay, I'm sure this has been answered, but it's all about the Adventurer's Armory and not the APG... and in fact it's an answer that contradicts the APG rules as far as I can tell...
Monks do their own unarmed damage while wearing Brass Knuckles. If those knuckles are enchanted do they gain the bonuses to their unarmed strikes?
If not can I get a mage with Craft Magic Arms and Armor to tat my character with some wicked Dragons and turn his unarmed strikes into magic weapons. (If yes, is my body considered a single 'item' or do I simply rule that it's a 'no space limitation' and restriction 'only me' and benefit 'can't be sundered' and go from there?)
(The tat question is a question if anything other than Might Fists can amp a Monk's attack and damage.)
The Amulet of Mighty Fists Enchants your Unarmed Strikes like a weapon (including Special properties, up to a +5)
The Amulet of Mighty Fists Enchants your Unarmed Strikes like a weapon (including Special properties, up to a +5)
Yes, I realize it does. My question is if Brass Knuckles can work instead of Mighty Fists, and if they can't can I do something other than mighty fists to up damage.
As I read the rules, there is nothing about monks doing there damage with an unarmed strike. Likewise, by the RAW there is nothing about a magic tattoo that enchants your unarmed strike. In theory, you could enchant your body but it should cost an incredible amount (since it does not take up a slot, cannot be sundered, cannot be stolen, etc.) IMO I would not allow it and know several DMs that wouldn't.
As I read the rules, there is nothing about monks doing there damage with an unarmed strike. Likewise, by the RAW there is nothing about a magic tattoo that enchants your unarmed strike. In theory, you could enchant your body but it should cost an incredible amount (since it does not take up a slot, cannot be sundered, cannot be stolen, etc.) IMO I would not allow it and know several DMs that wouldn't.
If the magic was tied to a tattoo... use an erase spell. :oP
Good point...
As I read the rules, there is nothing about monks doing there damage with an unarmed strike. Likewise, by the RAW there is nothing about a magic tattoo that enchants your unarmed strike. In theory, you could enchant your body but it should cost an incredible amount (since it does not take up a slot, cannot be sundered, cannot be stolen, etc.) IMO I would not allow it and know several DMs that wouldn't.If the magic was tied to a tattoo... use an erase spell. :oP
Erase can't target a person. It targets the object that's written on, and doesn't make any mention of targeting a person.
The Amulet of Mighty Fists Enchants your Unarmed Strikes like a weapon (including Special properties, up to a +5)Yes, I realize it does. My question is if Brass Knuckles can work instead of Mighty Fists, and if they can't can I do something other than mighty fists to up damage.
Yes, they can work instead of mighty fists.
Yes, they can work instead of mighty fists.The Amulet of Mighty Fists Enchants your Unarmed Strikes like a weapon (including Special properties, up to a +5)Yes, I realize it does. My question is if Brass Knuckles can work instead of Mighty Fists, and if they can't can I do something other than mighty fists to up damage.
Thanks :)
Wouldn't he do the normal damage for brass knuckles (1d3) as opposed to the monks standard unarmed damage? I see nowhere where it says he can do his normal (monk) damage with them.
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I can only vouch for the APG rules for them, which are the rules I'm going to go by:
Brass Knuckles: These close combat weapons are
designed to fit comfortably around the knuckles, narrowing
the contact area and therefore magnifying the amount of
force delivered by a punch. They allow you to deal lethal
damage with unarmed attacks. You may hold, but not
wield, a weapon or other object in a hand wearing brass
knuckles. You may cast a spell with a somatic component
while wearing brass knuckles if you make a concentration
check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you’re casting). Monks
are proficient with brass knuckles and can use their monk
unarmed damage when fighting with them.
Wow, that's broken (IMO), then again unlike an amulet of MF, get your hand stuck (or loped off) and you lose the benefit. So maybe not that bad. unarmed strikes would be limited to punches only (no kicky for you!).
P.S. I was using the pfsrd rules for them.
Honestly I'm glad they changed the brass knuckles. AOMF is way way way too expensive for actual use. But I agree, they would need to be punches only. So no kicking with them. And, you'd have to enchant them seperately, obviously, if you were using one on each fist.
Actually, the amulet of mighty fists was actually designed for shape shifters, monsters, and the like with multiple natural attacks, at which point they are a steal. They are about the cost of 2.5 magic weapons (they are at +1 & +2, a little more at higher bonuses, still a good buy). And they allow you to add special abilities to Natural attacks without adding enhancement bonuses.
Actually, the amulet of mighty fists was actually designed for shape shifters, monsters, and the like with multiple natural attacks, at which point they are a steal. They are about the cost of 2.5 magic weapons (they are at +1 & +2, a little more at higher bonuses, still a good buy). And they allow you to add special abilities to Natural attacks without adding enhancement bonuses.
No arguments that they are great for things with 3 or more natural attacks.
They are painfully expensive for monks or any character with two natural claw attacks (speaking from experience here).
so if i understand it right, the brass knuckles in the APG stack with a players unarmed damage
so if i understand it right, the brass knuckles in the APG stack with a players unarmed damage
No, they replace a character's unarmed damage and make it lethal instead of subdual. The exception is a monk's unarmed damage, which they are allowed to do with the brass knuckles. It's a Monk Weapon, which means it is flurry usable. It still requires Ki Focus special ability if the monk wants to use ki abilities with it. But, you can enchant them and use them with the monks' superior unarmed damage.
Wow, that's broken (IMO), then again unlike an amulet of MF, get your hand stuck (or loped off) and you lose the benefit. So maybe not that bad. unarmed strikes would be limited to punches only (no kicky for you!).
P.S. I was using the pfsrd rules for them.
Yes, broken. How horrifying that monks are allowed to have a nice thing.
Seriously your O in the IMO is terrible.
I find your sarcasm slightly offensive, and I corrected myself as an after thought. You should read my WHOLE post before shooting your mouth off.
I find your sarcasm slightly offensive, and I corrected myself as an after thought. You should read my WHOLE post before shooting your mouth off.
It's still flawed.
You're coming at it with the view of "Monks were fine, adding this makes them too much"
But monks very much were not fine, and the item enchantment problem wa an incredible flaw that they very needlessly had to suffer. It wasn't that monks didn't have to us a weapon, it's that they didn't get to use a weapon. Their class ability was "Pay three times as much as other classes for the same result."
You made a joke about the tattoo thing earlier, but hell, that's very close to what I do. It's honestly what I think monks should be allowed to do.
What joke about the tattoo? It should cost a great amount for no space limitation, cannot be stolen, cannot be disarmed or sundered, etc.
IMO monks were fine, for what they were meant to do. If you want to go damage route, then yes the brass knuckles are a legitimate route (for using only 1 hand; that would look a bit weird). And they didn't pay 3 times as much, 2.5 at the lower bonuses and that didn't include the 300+ gold for a master work weapon and it applied to all unarmed strikes (lose/can't use an arm? Oh well kick his but, literally if necessary). I prefer monks that don't use trinkets, but that is my opinion.
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As it stands there are 2 obvious advantages to using Brass Knuckles.
The first of which is the obvious, the price factor is HUGE! You can get the things enchanted at a much reduces price from the AoMF.
The second is slightly less obvious, that being that it frees up your neck slot to be filled for another magical item.
These things being said, the AoMF still has some advantages in that it allows you to use your hands to any degree you like for whatever purpose you want, something the knuckles get in the way of. Having knuckles isn't exactly a "nice" gesture when reaching across the bar for your drink, it just looks hostile. Also the amulet is STILL cheaper if you simply want to apply a single magical enchantment to your unarmed attacks such as fiery or what have you.
so if i understand it right, the brass knuckles in the APG stack with a players unarmed damageNo, they replace a character's unarmed damage and make it lethal instead of subdual. The exception is a monk's unarmed damage, which they are allowed to do with the brass knuckles. It's a Monk Weapon, which means it is flurry usable. It still requires Ki Focus special ability if the monk wants to use ki abilities with it. But, you can enchant them and use them with the monks' superior unarmed damage.
Couldn't you just use stunning fist with your elbow or knee? The feat doesn't specify it needs to be a fist(although it's heavily implied) but merely an unarmed strike and since monks can use almost any part of their body as an unarmed strike couldn't this be plausible and just skip the ki focus enchantment?
Can't we just be happy that Paizo fixed one of the more stupid Monk flaws (granted, it took two shots, but hey) ?
QFT :D
Can't we just be happy that Paizo fixed one of the more stupid Monk flaws (granted, it took two shots, but hey) ?
How horrifying that monks are allowed to have a nice thing.
2xQFT
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Couldn't you just use stunning fist with your elbow or knee? The feat doesn't specify it needs to be a fist(although it's heavily implied) but merely an unarmed strike and since monks can use almost any part of their body as an unarmed strike couldn't this be plausible and just skip the ki focus enchantment?
You certainly could, but you wouldn't get the brass knuckles enhancement bonus on the attack and damage roll.
Some have said you would need to enchant both brass knuckles.
You do not need both, just one brass kunckle to be enchanted leaving the other hand empty.
When you want to stun use the empty hand, when you want to do damage use the hand with the brass knuckle.
Oh and just if you were wondering if you have an Amulet of Mighty Fists and brass knuckles they do NOT stack. The brass knuckles is a weapon attack that allows the replacement of the 1d3 with the damage dice of a monks unarmed attacks.
My only complaint is that I don't like the flavour of the brass knucks. In order to get the bonus you have to punch. That is really boring. No kicks, no chops, no finger jabs, no elbows, no knees, or any of the other really cool stuff about martial arts. Good lord, no headbutts. It makes me sadface.
T__T
Well...I suppose you could design brass heels, brass finger, brass kneecaps, and brass foreheads...
Well...I suppose you could design brass heels, brass finger, brass kneecaps, and brass foreheads...
Time for a Brass Monk. >:[
...those funky knuckles.
Better than knucky funckles.
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My only complaint is that I don't like the flavour of the brass knucks. In order to get the bonus you have to punch. That is really boring. No kicks, no chops, no finger jabs, no elbows, no knees, or any of the other really cool stuff about martial arts. Good lord, no headbutts. It makes me sadface.
T__T
Brass knuckles + sovereign glue, apply to forehead = enchanted headbutt.
Seriously though, I like the idea of magical full body tattoos for monks. Charge double for them to account for being slot-less, and there you go.
My only complaint is that I don't like the flavour of the brass knucks. In order to get the bonus you have to punch. That is really boring. No kicks, no chops, no finger jabs, no elbows, no knees, or any of the other really cool stuff about martial arts. Good lord, no headbutts. It makes me sadface.
T__T
Brass knuckles + sovereign glue, apply to forehead = enchanted headbutt.
Seriously though, I like the idea of magical full body tattoos for monks. Charge double for them to account for being slot-less, and there you go.
Or get an amulet of mighty fists...
AMulet of Mighty fists, while handy for a monk, is really designed for creatures with multiple natural attacks. Things with bite claw and such actually benefit alot more from it, because of their actual *different* attacks.
The monk using "other body parts" is largely neat looking fluff. The mechanics, the math of it, doesn't change whether you are kicking the guy in the knee, doing an uppercut, or giving a head butt. You are still just "using an unarmed strike" to hit him. I would therefore just ask the DM to count the Brass Knuckle damage regardless of what your "fluff" move would be. It would only Really be an issue if your arms/hands were bound and you still wanted to attack. i.e. a mechanical "i have to attack with a foot". In nearly every other instance though the body part you are using is just your fluff explanation to make the monk sound neat in battle. (which it does- but its still fluff).
Just ask the DM. A simple houserule to change fluff that has no mechanical benefit should be a no brainer.
-S
I think AoMF was desinged for monks, for the very reasons you think brass knuckles should be "accross the board" for damage.
Its enchantments cover any or all of a monks attacks, whether they be head, foot, elbow, etc and only uses up one slot. It can be enchanted up just like a weapon can, and it's costs seem to be 2.5 x what one weapon would cost to buy, covering the "it needs to cost more" bit.
It sucks that it uses the neck slot, meaning said monk can't use this and an amulet of natural armor, but, who cares! His whole body can be just as enchanted as the fighter's sword.
Kryzbyn, THAT is spot on.
(...)
The monk using "other body parts" is largely neat looking fluff. The mechanics, the math of it, doesn't change whether you are kicking the guy in the knee, doing an uppercut, or giving a head butt.(...)
There are the 'You may hold, but not wield, a weapon ...' part and spell-casting difficulties, etc. that one wouldn't have to face with the Brass-Kneepad. I would allow it but I would apply the same limits to the user (Fluff: Balancing issues).
Yes but you can get 1 brass knuckle and still have the other hand /completely free/.
The fact of the matter is that fluff aside, discounting a very very few narrow times, the knuckles do the /exact same thing/ as the Amulet would do for the monk. Except it does so alot cheaper and while freeing up the neck slot.
You build a monk with the amulet.
Now swap it out for the knuckles.
Compare them mechanically. the Only difference is the Ki weapon property, which the money you save on the swap can easily make up.
A +1 ki knuckle is cheaper than the +1 amulet, no?
COmpare the two characters and you find that except for the sheer fluff of announcing a round house instead of a punch, they are the same.
Granted there are some rare times when the amulet would be more useful- such as when you are tied with hands behind your back or your hands/arms are removed.. but is it worth all that extra cost for it?
I don't think so. Except for those who want to use an actual weapon like the temple sword or something, the knuckles really are a no-brainer monk weapon now. The only reason to get the amulet over it is if your DM won't let you fluff-kick something and you would rather pay out the nose not to karate chop your opponent.
1 brass knuckle compared to the Amulet of Mighty Fists.
There is no mechanical benefit to get the Amulet over the Knuckle and alot of good reasons to go with the knuckle- even weithout your DM letting you "change the fluff".
-S
Time for a Brass Monk. >:[
Clockwork Disciple?
Yes but you can get 1 brass knuckle and still have the other hand /completely free/.
The fact of the matter is that fluff aside, discounting a very very few narrow times, the knuckles do the /exact same thing/ as the Amulet would do for the monk. Except it does so alot cheaper and while freeing up the neck slot.
You build a monk with the amulet.
Now swap it out for the knuckles.
Compare them mechanically. the Only difference is the Ki weapon property, which the money you save on the swap can easily make up.A +1 ki knuckle is cheaper than the +1 amulet, no?
COmpare the two characters and you find that except for the sheer fluff of announcing a round house instead of a punch, they are the same.Granted there are some rare times when the amulet would be more useful- such as when you are tied with hands behind your back or your hands/arms are removed.. but is it worth all that extra cost for it?
I don't think so. Except for those who want to use an actual weapon like the temple sword or something, the knuckles really are a no-brainer monk weapon now. The only reason to get the amulet over it is if your DM won't let you fluff-kick something and you would rather pay out the nose not to karate chop your opponent.
1 brass knuckle compared to the Amulet of Mighty Fists.
There is no mechanical benefit to get the Amulet over the Knuckle and alot of good reasons to go with the knuckle- even weithout your DM letting you "change the fluff".
-S
This is where we differ. Spending all that time convincing a DM to allow magic handwraps or knuckles or whatever to effect all of your attacks, or deciding to just jab with your main hand 5 times...yeah I think the extra cost is worth it and justified. It's what the amulet was designed for. It removes ambiguity about which enchantment affects what strike, overall making the play experience better at the table for everybody.
YMMV.
Then you like paying alot of extra gold for pure fluff. Which isn't a bad thing, as long as you are aware of it.
For critters with more than one natural attack it makes sense.. but otherwise the Amulet is just a gold tax on monks. They are already difficult to make work, but to add that on top is just painful.
ymmv of course.
-S
Then you like paying alot of extra gold for pure fluff. Which isn't a bad thing, as long as you are aware of it.
For critters with more than one natural attack it makes sense.. but otherwise the Amulet is just a gold tax on monks. They are already difficult to make work, but to add that on top is just painful.
ymmv of course.
-S
A gold tax...on top of all those weapons and armor that monks don't need to buy?
Yep.
One weapon and one armor costs less than 1 amulet of mighty fists, and you can't get the nat armor amulet as a result.
Or you can buy 1 knuckle and still have the nat armor amulet and likely still have cash left over.
If AoMF are 2.5 cost of 1 weapon and armors are half the costs of a weapon you are still far ahead of the game as a monk just taking the knuckle.
(at work, no books, so not checking the price atm).
Don't get me wrong- I'm not all about "min/max"ing a character out but the price difference for the exact same mechanical effect is just astounding.
-S
I've said it before I will say it again.
The reason AOMF costs so much is it does 2 things.
1) it enchants Unarmed strikes.
2) it enchants natural Attacks.So you are not buying a +2 weapon, you are buyign a weapon that is enchanted to +2 for Nautural attacks and then enchanted again for +2 to unarmed strikes.
The costs works out EXACTLY right for stacking enchantments. For example if you wanted to put a +5 Reistance bonus on your Ring of Protection +5.
SOME but not all reasoanble GM's have allowed PC's to have custom enchanted "Amulets of Monkly Strikes" which will NOT work for natural attacks at the usual cost.
SOME GM's have also given Monsters (say a Hydra) an "Amulet of Natural Attacks" which will not work for Monks since they do not have a "Natural Attack".
I have a Juvenile bronze dragon/monk 4 atm. He likes his Amulet of Might fists +1/holy/ghost touch. It was well worth the cost.
Well, of course.. a natural fit for a dragon monk..
Why didn't I think of that?
-S