Hello all!
A quick question: does the feat Shield Focus grants a +1 AC bonus to the shield spell? Is there an official ruling?
Hello all!
A quick question: does the feat Shield Focus grants a +1 AC bonus to the shield spell? Is there an official ruling?
Nope. While the Shield spell grants a Shield bonus, you aren't actually using a shield, the invisible force field hovers in front of you. The shield focus feat states that it applies to a shield that you are using.
That term is exactly what got me wondering. If the wording in Shield Focus feat had benn "by any shield you are wearing", I wouldn´t have any doubts.
Couldn´t it be argued that you are effectively using the magic shield, even though you are not wearing it?
A shield spell is a construct of magical force. It's not an actual shield per se. It does much of the same work by providing you with a shield bonus to AC, but if it were a real shield it would have the following: weight, armor check penalty, arcane spell failure. Even an animated shield has these things. Mind, some of these values might be 0, but the shield spell isn't even detailed with all 3 of these, just a note about ASF and ACP. Also, a real shield has a hardness rating and hit points and requires shield proficiency to use properly. The spell lacks these. I can't take a shield spell and throw the rogue's body on it to help carry it out of the dungeon, nor can I slide on it down a snowy slope. It's just a magical protection, albeit a good one.
That said, I don't think it would be game-breaking to let Shield Focus work with the shield spell. I just don't know how you can justify it in-game. You don't control the shield spell's movements, unlike a shield you hold on your arm. How does your focus improve the effects of the shield spell?
If you picture the shield spell as the one that Harry Dresden uses it does make sense. It's more cinematic to picture the caster blocking attacks with the hovering force shield than to have it just stand there...
Besides, sorcerers and wizards do not have shield proficiency.
This means that they need to spend two feats or one feat and a caster level hit(multiclass) for +1 AC.
Certainly not a world shattering benefit, I would allow it.
EDIT: It seem that the consensus is that it cannot work, but think of it guys, would you allow this feat to work with a Ring of Force Shield?
If you picture the shield spell as the one that Harry Dresden uses it does make sense....
EDIT: It seem that the consensus is that it cannot work, but think of it guys, would you allow this feat to work with a Ring of Force Shield?
Still no, but nice Dresden reference :)
If you picture the shield spell as the one that Harry Dresden uses it does make sense. It's more cinematic to picture the caster blocking attacks with the hovering force shield than to have it just stand there...
Besides, sorcerers and wizards do not have shield proficiency.
This means that they need to spend two feats or one feat and a caster level hit(multiclass) for +1 AC.Certainly not a world shattering benefit, I would allow it.
EDIT: It seem that the consensus is that it cannot work, but think of it guys, would you allow this feat to work with a Ring of Force Shield?
Yeah, I probably would let it work. It specifically mentions in the ring's description that it's wielded as if a heavy shield. Since I perceive Shield Focus to be the result of training with a shield and the ring creates a shield (of unusual material) that you actually wield, I'd let that slide. The shield spell isn't wielded, so no. Yes, I'm mixing 'use' and 'wield', I know.
I can see why it wouldn´t apply and I can see why it would apply. It seems to me that, in lack of a "yes" or "no" from Paizo, it´s a matter of DM´s interpretation. I haven´t found anything in the FAQs or errata about the issue.
To me, it looks like in RAI, it´s probably a "no". In RAW, it´s a "could be". Maybe James Jacobs could stop by and drop us a word...?
(summon spell, anyone?)
Hello all!
A quick question: does the feat Shield Focus grants a +1 AC bonus to the shield spell? Is there an official ruling?
No. Shield Focus affects actual shields, not spells.
Many items and spells can give a shield AC bonus. Only actual shields ARE shields.
No. Shield Focus affects actual shields, not spells.
Many items and spells can give a shield AC bonus. Only actual shields ARE shields.
So only shields made of matter are considered actual shields? The text description in the shield spell does say that the spell creates "an invisible shield of force". Of course, it might be only flavour text. Also, as far as I can recall, Shield is the only spell that grants shield bonus to AC, so there´s not much base for comaparison there.
Right now I´m just playing the devil´s advocate. I´m not caught up in a blind munchkin frenzy; it´s a genuine doubt.
It´s just that I´m still not convinced either way.
EDIT: Anyway, I think Gilfalas approached the problem by the right angle: is the shield created by the Shield spell an actual shield? Why or why not?
No. Shield Focus affects actual shields, not spells.
Many items and spells can give a shield AC bonus. Only actual shields ARE shields.
So only shields made of matter are considered actual shields? The text description in the shield spell does say that the spell creates "an invisible shield of force". Of course, it might be only flavour text. Also, as far as I can recall, Shield is the only spell that grants shield bonus to AC, so there´s not much base for comaparison there.
Right now I´m just playing the devil´s advocate. I´m not caught up in a blind munchkin frenzy; it´s a genuine doubt.
It´s just that I´m still not convinced either way.
EDIT: Anyway, I think Gilfalas approached the problem by the right angle: is the shield created by the Shield spell an actual shield? Why or why not?
you wouldn't get the bonus unless the text in the spell says it is actually wielded as a shield. The same thing applies to weapon-like spells, some spells might do damage like a particular weapon but you would not get weapon focus bonus unless it is actually wielded as such.
"Spiritual weapon" for example does not give you the bonus, "flame blade" will.
Kalyth wrote:
Two Weapon Defense grants a Shield Bonus to AC. Could I take Shield Focus for my Two Weapon Defense feat?
Yes, I´ve come across that. Not sure how reliable the source is, but shield bonuses come from:
* Item: Shields (+1/+2)
* Spell: Shield (+4)
* Feat: Two Weapon Defense (+1, while dual-wielding)
However, unlike in the shield spell description, the text in Two Weapon Defense does not imply that the weapons are a shield.
Two Weapon Defense grants a Shield Bonus to AC. Could I take Shield Focus for my Two Weapon Defense feat?
"Benefit: Increase the AC bonus granted by any shield you are using by 1."
No shield in use, no bonus.
While TWD grants you a defensive ability that is limited by being classified as a shield bonus, TWS does not let you treat your weapons as actual shields in addition to what they already are (weapons).
A shield spell is not a shield. It is a [u]spell[/u] that gives a shield bonus.
TWD is not a shield, it is a feat that gives a shield bonus.
Tower shields, large shields, small shields or bucklers are all actual shields that are used as shields and work with the feat and are classified as actgual 'shields'.
I would go so far as to say that a magic item or effect that takes up a shield position on a character and must be used by the wearer as an actual shield would be to defend themselves (
such as a Ring of Foce Shield) would work with the Shield Focus feat, since it is fulfulling the function of a shield as a shield does.
Though in the case of the ring, 8500 GP and a ring slot is a heck of a lot to pay for 2 AC that is also a force effect.
You are skilled at deflecting blows with your shield.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Increase the AC bonus of any shield you are using by 1.
School abjuration [force]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 min/level (D)
Shield creates an invisible shield of force that hovers in front of you. It negates magic missile attacks directed at you. The disk also provides a +4 shield bonus to AC. This bonus applies against incorporeal touch attacks, since it is a force effect. The shield has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance.
Aura moderate evocation; CL 9th
Slot ring; Price 8,500 gp; Weight -
Description
An iron band, this simple ring generates a shield-sized (and shield shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring and can be wielded by the wearer as if were a heavy shield (+2 AC). This special creation has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance free. It can be activated and deactivated at will as a free action.
Construction
Requirements Forge Ring, wall of force; Cost 4,250 gp
The Shield Focus feat is advanced training with shields (requires Shield Proficiency) that teaches how to block/defend better. The shield spell creates a "shield of force that hovers in front of you;" it does not move as you direct (or at least, does not specifically do so by the spell description). A ring of force creates a mobile wall of force effect that "stays with the ring and can be wielded as if it were a heavy shield."
Going strictly by the RAW, the Shield Focus feat can be used with a ring of force shield, but not with a shield spell. From a game balance perspective, allowing the Shield Focus (and Greater Shield Focus, if the character can meet the fighter level requirements) to apply to the shield spell is hardly overpowered: it requires two feats (or one if the sorcerer/wizard has Shield Proficiency from taking levels in another class) for an extra +1 AC only while the shield spell is active. A sorcerer/wizard is better off taking Dodge.
Shield focus works with any shield. Shield spell creates a shield of force. Therefore shield focus stacks with it, IMO.
If it was a shield you actually wield (as a shield) I would agree with you, the shield spell does nothing of the sort. Just like Spiritual weapon does not benefit from your weapon focus and specizlization or critical feats neither does the shield spell.
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I'd like to get the shield focus bonus on my spell of shield, which just provides a protective magical force that shields you *as opposed to acting AS a shield*.
And then, I'd like to get that bonus on barkskin, because it's protective too, so it's shielding me from damage and thus qualifies :p
It's word semantics. If the spell mentions that it is wielded as a shield, and gives you the type of shield it's wielded as, I could see it benefiting. But just because something has shield in the name doesn't automatically mean it benefits from anything relating to that word.
Of course, I don't think that +1 ac makes too much difference either way.
Everything old is new again.