I just wrote a guide for Rogues yesterday, which is here: Rogue Eidolon's Guide to Rogues (Optimisation). Treantmonk has given us Bard, Druid, Monk, Ranger, and Wizard. What guides are we missing that people need?
Cleric seems a strong contender. I'm in a good position to write about the playtest Summoner and Alchemist as well, but I want to wait for the final version before I do anything with that. There are also plenty of Eldritch Knight threads, so that might be good to have a guide.
What are you looking for?
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I just wrote a guide for Rogues yesterday, which is here: Rogue Eidolon's Guide to Rogues (Optimisation). Treantmonk has given us Bard, Druid, Monk, Ranger, and Wizard. What guides are we missing that people need?
Cleric seems a strong contender. I'm in a good position to write about the playtest Summoner and Alchemist as well, but I want to wait for the final version before I do anything with that. There are also plenty of Eldritch Knight threads, so that might be good to have a guide.
What are you looking for?
Fighter should be quick and easy and fighters don't really get any love :D
That guide is currently hard to read through. When you are reading while others view it, it bounces all over the place.I just wrote a guide for Rogues yesterday, which is here: Rogue Eidolon's Guide to Rogues (Optimisation). Treantmonk has given us Bard, Druid, Monk, Ranger, and Wizard. What guides are we missing that people need?
Cleric seems a strong contender. I'm in a good position to write about the playtest Summoner and Alchemist as well, but I want to wait for the final version before I do anything with that. There are also plenty of Eldritch Knight threads, so that might be good to have a guide.
What are you looking for?
Really? Is there a solution for that? People suggested that I put it up on Googledocs, and I think they said you can download it from there as well. I can also try hosting it elsewhere...hmm.
Fighter should be quick and easy and fighters don't really get any love :DI just wrote a guide for Rogues yesterday, which is here: Rogue Eidolon's Guide to Rogues (Optimisation). Treantmonk has given us Bard, Druid, Monk, Ranger, and Wizard. What guides are we missing that people need?
Cleric seems a strong contender. I'm in a good position to write about the playtest Summoner and Alchemist as well, but I want to wait for the final version before I do anything with that. There are also plenty of Eldritch Knight threads, so that might be good to have a guide.
What are you looking for?
Ah, but there are so many sorts of Fighter. I guess I could concentrate on Archery, Sword and Board, and Two-Handed and put in mini-comments about various style choices when I go through all the feats. That may be quick enough that I can do it at the airport and on the airplane tomorrow when I fly home to Boston.
Heh, as long as it isn't Sorcerer. Strategies for Sorcerer spell-selection are so intricate and campaign-dependent that I think it would take me 40 pages at least to write that one and do it justice.
Would you mind if I added your guide to d20pfsrd.com as I have done with the Treantmonk guides? You wouldn't have to do anything different with your Google Doc as our site can just embed Google Docs natively. That means whenever you update your doc, as normal, the site is also updated. If you don't mind me adding it I could have it up there tonight.
Edit: Oh, and I believe you have Treantmonks name showing as "Treatmonk" in your guide. I did the same thing originally so its a common mistake.
Would you mind if I added your guide to d20pfsrd.com as I have done with the Treantmonk guides? You wouldn't have to do anything different with your Google Doc as our site can just embed Google Docs natively. That means whenever you update your doc, as normal, the site is also updated. If you don't mind me adding it I could have it up there tonight.
I wouldn't mind at all--that'd be great. Gosh, if I'm going to be up on d20pfsrd, I should probably add pictures or something and make it prettier. Do you need me to give you any access so you can embed it?
EDIT for your EDIT: Oops, I do know there's an n, but sometimes my keyboard craps out on me ever since that juice spill a while back (incidentally, if I have all my 'm's in there it's a iracle)
One minor spelling nazi tidbit if I may, it is optimiZation, with a Z. ;-)
I've been thinking at trying my hand at a handbook (pun intended), just need to find the time. Treant, what program do you use to write your handbooks that allows you to embed pics and customize like that?
One minor spelling nazi tidbit if I may, it is optimiZation, with a Z. ;-)
Hey, I never mind spelling nazism--you should see my family when it comes to that kind of stuff. In this case, it isn't that it's wrong. For some reason, I like using the British 's' instead of 'z' where appropriate. Perhaps it's because manoeuvre is just such an awesome way to spell a word, and it fits together nicely.
I'll send you a free copy if you'll do one on the War Master:
Plus I'll send you 3 other PDFs of your choice. :D
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
I'll send you a free copy if you'll do one on the War Master:
Plus I'll send you 3 other PDFs of your choice. :D
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
That's very generous--I've heard good things about your products.
I'd like to help shore up the core classes first because I think more people will need it. I'm actually on a short break before I get back to work on Monday, and if my work schedule allows writing more of these guides past the core, I'll shoot you an email (I wouldn't feel right accepting unless I knew I would definitely be working on it soon). Also, as a caveat that you probably know, since I'm guessing you read my Rogue guide, I'm not afraid to praise things I like and write funny comments about the ones I don't.
One minor spelling nazi tidbit if I may, it is optimiZation, with a Z. ;-)Or else "armor" is supposed to be spelled "armour". One of those spellings is definitely wrong, depending on your version of the English language.
I believe I consistently spelled it armour every time except when I was specifically naming an item or ability from the core book that is spelled without a 'u' (Celestial Armor, Armor Training, Amulet of Natural Armor, etc). Let me know if people want me to Americanise the spelling--it won't be too hard.
I wouldn't mind at all--that'd be great. Gosh, if I'm going to be up on d20pfsrd, I should probably add pictures or something and make it prettier. Do you need me to give you any access so you can embed it?
As long as it's published as you have it now, such that I can see it (and you don't unpublish it later) that's all I need.
However, I also happen to be a formatting/layout nazi (for my own stuff) but what I mean to say is, if you wouldn't mind someone basically milling about the document and removing double-spaces here and there and/or doing some simple formatting, you could share it with me as an editor. You don't have to, its up to you. I just posted a paladin guide for another guy and did some cleanup on his doc before posting it. Not even saying yours needs any, but just in case, if I'm an editor I can fix silly stuff if I see it.
Oh, if you add pics, please pay attention to the rules of the OGL and the Community Usage Policy. If you know what thats about then you should be good. If you don't, the short answer is don't add pics from anywhere unless you have permission to, or you get them from the Pathfinder Community Use Package OR from the Paizo blog. If you prefer to add images from other sources, that's fine, but we can't host the file then because we have to adhere to the OGL and CUP.
I'm a long time optimizer and I've heavily studied TM and Caelic's guides, so I feel I'm qualified.
Caelic...the things that man could do with an Artificer were just downright nasty, somehow made you feel all dirty inside while laughing maniacally to yourself at the same time.
I wouldn't mind at all--that'd be great. Gosh, if I'm going to be up on d20pfsrd, I should probably add pictures or something and make it prettier. Do you need me to give you any access so you can embed it?As long as it's published as you have it now, such that I can see it (and you don't unpublish it later) that's all I need.
However, I also happen to be a formatting/layout nazi (for my own stuff) but what I mean to say is, if you wouldn't mind someone basically milling about the document and removing double-spaces here and there and/or doing some simple formatting, you could share it with me as an editor. You don't have to, its up to you. I just posted a paladin guide for another guy and did some cleanup on his doc before posting it. Not even saying yours needs any, but just in case, if I'm an editor I can fix silly stuff if I see it.
Oh, if you add pics, please pay attention to the rules of the OGL and the Community Usage Policy. If you know what thats about then you should be good. If you don't, the short answer is don't add pics from anywhere unless you have permission to, or you get them from the Pathfinder Community Use Package OR from the Paizo blog. If you prefer to add images from other sources, that's fine, but we can't host the file then because we have to adhere to the OGL and CUP.
I don't mind an editor. Truth be told, I'd much prefer not doing my own editing. The saddest thirty minutes or so of the Rogue guide were after I realised that these boards don't have the BBCode colours and I had to remove all the tags and format it on Googledocs. Are you just jreyst@gmail.com?
Are you just jreyst@gmail.com?
Ding! You are correct!
I was in then you kicked me out! lol
I was in then you kicked me out! lol
You were in the as-yet unfinished Fighter Guide due to my stupidity and the fact that they look similar. I'm admittedly embarrassed by my unfinished work--you should find that you have full editing access to the Rogue Guide still. Let me know if I screwed that up!
LOL No worries. To be honest, your guide already looks pretty well-formatted. I hate seeing when people use space characters in place of tabs etc as well as make horrible spelling mistakes so I often go in after people and run through a spellcheck and do simply tidying. Yours isn't really going to need much (if anything).
I'll say go for Fighters, they need love. Only caveat, Sword and Board is a style where a lot of rules are still unclear.
For instance, the issue of wether or not you can use your shield as a main hand weapon when shield bashing, to reduce the penalty of your attacks when using a light weapon with a heavy shield (i.e. should the sentence "You can bash an opponent with a *** shield, using it as an off-hand weapon." be interpreted as a special permission, or as a restriction).
That, and how do bonuses and enchantments interact exactly with shields. It has been clarified that you need to enchant the defensive and offensive functions of a shield separately, and that shield spikes and the bashing enchantment do not stack, but I'm pretty sure there are still some issues needing clarification on that topic, with so many feats, enchants and buffs available.
Also, I'd love to see a Cleric guide. ESPECIALLY a breakdown of the domains, their powers and their spell list, just like Treantmonk's guide for Wizards, and the shorter one for druid domains.
Add another one for the cleric guide. I'd like to see how to build clerics that are more militant as well as those who are relying on their spellcasting more. A detailed examination of their spells and domains is a given.
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The two big ones uncovered (pre the Advanced Player's Guide) are Barbarian and Cleric. Cleric will be a monster to take on because of options and optimizing spell lists can take ages; it may even need to be broken into "Combat Cleric" and "Support Cleric" (a la Treatmonk's handling of Druids) since the two play as totally different animals.
Barbarian you would do for the same reason Treat did Monks: they suck, but at least you can make a guide to making them suck less. With that said, unlike the monk (who, like the Eldrich Knight, is much beloved and woed for their lack of power), the Barbarians niche is nicely handled by fighters (who can act angry if they so choose :)).
Edit: Actually fighter hasn't been done either; you may consider them, like Cleric they are quite good if built right, and unlike Cleric they are the worst thing in existence built wrong.
The shield master feat was changed in the latest batch of errata:Shield Master (Combat)
Your mastery of the shield allows you to fight with it without hindrance.
Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Shield Slam, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus.
So now a shield +2 is +2 to it's AC, and +2 to attack and damage with this feat.
Woah... sweet. That's quite a revolution!
Edit: Raises a few new questions tough... Does that mean you can now still enchant the shield as a weapon too to get for instance, a total attack and dammage bonus of +10 on your shield bashes? The sentence seems unclear enough to allow it ("as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus", but it does seem pretty abusive).
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Woah... sweet. That's quite a revolution!
Edit: Raises a few new questions tough... Does that mean you can now still enchant the shield as a weapon too to get for instance, a total attack and dammage bonus of +10 on your shield bashes? The sentence seems unclear enough to allow it ("as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus", but it does seem pretty abusive).
Identical bonuses don't stack, you take the higher of the two.
So if you had a shield with a +4 shield enhancement, and a +2 weapon enhancement on it, you'd use +4 for attack and damage with the feat the since it is higher than +2.
Does the shields armor enhancement (and after the errata, weapon bonus also I guess) qualify you for non numerical weapon bonuses (shocking, fiery, frost, etc.)?
I'll say go for Fighters, they need love. Only caveat, Sword and Board is a style where a lot of rules are still unclear.
For instance, the issue of wether or not you can use your shield as a main hand weapon when shield bashing, to reduce the penalty of your attacks when using a light weapon with a heavy shield (i.e. should the sentence "You can bash an opponent with a *** shield, using it as an off-hand weapon." be interpreted as a special permission, or as a restriction).
That, and how do bonuses and enchantments interact exactly with shields. It has been clarified that you need to enchant the defensive and offensive functions of a shield separately, and that shield spikes and the bashing enchantment do not stack, but I'm pretty sure there are still some issues needing clarification on that topic, with so many feats, enchants and buffs available.
Also, I'd love to see a Cleric guide. ESPECIALLY a breakdown of the domains, their powers and their spell list, just like Treantmonk's guide for Wizards, and the shorter one for druid domains.
Yeah, you might not think it, but I've been outlining a Fighter guide and Sword and Board is by far the most complicated. This is because I really want to do such an iconic fighting style from early editions justice, and it takes a lot of good optimising to do it right (you are clearly savvy to the fact that you can't just turtle up and hope that will let you tank since you have correctly guessed that Shield Bashing is important).
You know, it wouldn't take long to do a domain power guide (or even a Sorcerer bloodline guide, but I'm not doing a full Sorcerer guide because it would take forever). It's actually funny--I GM a lot and build my own NPCs, so I make builds of every class, but in play, I tend to spellcasters more than not (when I got second place at Iron Player last year after they had us build a level 13 Pathfinder character within minutes of receiving the book, it was with a Cleric). It may not look that way from the guides I'm writing right now (Rogue and Fighter), but that's just because Treantmonk already has out admirable guides for Wizard and Druid, and I don't want to do APG until it's finalised.
So I'm going to write a Domain Guide right now. It will later become a full Cleric guide. Then I'll finish Fighter. Sound good?
Does the shields armor enhancement (and after the errata, weapon bonus also I guess) qualify you for non numerical weapon bonuses (shocking, fiery, frost, etc.)?No.
Because it is only with the feat that you can treat the shield enhancement bonus as a weapon bonus. It's not a real weapon bonus, it is a conditional virtual bonus.
So if you want shocking, firey, frost, etc. you'll need to make a proper magic weapon of it.
However it does mean you won't have to bother putting anymore than a +1 weapon bonus on the shield since you can use the shield enhancement bonus with the feat.
I agree with Eric's ruling. This therefore means that you can get the other attack enhancements on your Shield for much cheaper than usual on a +5 weapon.
Hi Rogue Eidolon,
I've just started using a great online file system / repository called Dropbox. If you fancy giving it a go follow this link (https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTc3MzA0NTY5), install Dropbox, create a folder for your guides and share it as a public folder. You can then share it with the community.
See what you think,
miph-not-melf
Really? Is there a solution for that? People suggested that I put it up on Googledocs, and I think they said you can download it from there as well. I can also try hosting it elsewhere...hmm.That guide is currently hard to read through. When you are reading while others view it, it bounces all over the place.I just wrote a guide for Rogues yesterday, which is here: Rogue Eidolon's Guide to Rogues (Optimisation). Treantmonk has given us Bard, Druid, Monk, Ranger, and Wizard. What guides are we missing that people need?
Cleric seems a strong contender. I'm in a good position to write about the playtest Summoner and Alchemist as well, but I want to wait for the final version before I do anything with that. There are also plenty of Eldritch Knight threads, so that might be good to have a guide.
What are you looking for?
I've just started using a great online file system / repository called Dropbox. If you fancy giving it a go follow this link (https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTc3MzA0NTY5), install Dropbox, create a folder for your guides and share it as a public folder. You can then share it with the community.
While Dropbox is an excellent application, it requires that each user have it installed on their PC/laptop/whatever, and special sharing steps must be performed etc. The way Rogue Eidolon is doing it now is using public Google Docs, which don't require any special applications on the end users PC/laptop other than a web browser.
Personally, I far prefer Google Docs over Dropbox, purely for that convenience. Also, by using Google Docs, I can easily embed them on d20pfsrd.com (as I have already with several other guides).
The decision of sharing method is up to Rogue Eidolon though. I would only mention that I suspect FAR, FAR fewer people would benefit from the guides if they were in Dropbox as opposed to a publicly viewable Google Doc.
Hi Rogue Eidolon,
I've just started using a great online file system / repository called Dropbox. If you fancy giving it a go follow this link (https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTc3MzA0NTY5), install Dropbox, create a folder for your guides and share it as a public folder. You can then share it with the community.
See what you think,
miph-not-melf
Really? Is there a solution for that? People suggested that I put it up on Googledocs, and I think they said you can download it from there as well. I can also try hosting it elsewhere...hmm.That guide is currently hard to read through. When you are reading while others view it, it bounces all over the place.I just wrote a guide for Rogues yesterday, which is here: Rogue Eidolon's Guide to Rogues (Optimisation). Treantmonk has given us Bard, Druid, Monk, Ranger, and Wizard. What guides are we missing that people need?
Cleric seems a strong contender. I'm in a good position to write about the playtest Summoner and Alchemist as well, but I want to wait for the final version before I do anything with that. There are also plenty of Eldritch Knight threads, so that might be good to have a guide.
What are you looking for?
Hey miph. My MIT user account has a Public directory--that's probably where I would have put the file if jreyst hadn't gotten it up on d20pfsrd for me. Now everyone can find it by just going to this link. Thanks so much for the idea, though--I'll definitely consider it, particularly if I ever have files I wouldn't want to host on my Public user page.
So I'm going to write a Domain Guide right now. It will later become a full Cleric guide. Then I'll finish Fighter. Sound good?
Sounds good to me! Domains are what make clerics different from one another, so analysis of the domains makes sense as a good first step.
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While Dropbox is an excellent application, it requires that each user have it installed on their PC/laptop/whatever, and special sharing steps must be performed etc. The way Rogue Eidolon is doing it now is using public Google Docs, which don't require any special applications on the end users PC/laptop other than a web browser.
Personally, I far prefer Google Docs over Dropbox, purely for that convenience. Also, by using Google Docs, I can easily embed them on d20pfsrd.com (as I have already with several other guides).
The decision of sharing method is up to Rogue Eidolon though. I would only mention that I suspect FAR, FAR fewer people would benefit from the guides if they were in Dropbox as opposed to a publicly viewable Google Doc.
Dropbox does allow for the sharing of actual Word documents and thus much more intricate formatting options than the paltry few offered by Google Docs right now. (Like a damned ruler and adjustable tab widths!)
Hey Hyrum, I owe you an apology man, I lost 'The Genius Guide to the Shadow Assassin' for a while due to computer failure, and by the time I'd recovered my data a whirlwind of other issues got in the way and I ended up not doing that review you asked for.
I'll get on that review (some time soon, with my grandpa in the hospital I can't give an exact date), and if you like I could write up an Optimization Guide (I'm a long time optimizer and I've heavily studied TM and Caelic's guides, so I feel I'm qualified, if you wish I could probably email it to you for review first.)
Edit: I'll note I'm not asking for anything in return, just trying to give something extra both because it sounds like something I'd like to do, and because I failed to complete my part of the initial bargain.
No worries. :D Write it when you can, that's all we ask.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
That's very generous--I've heard good things about your products.
Woot! I love it when people talk about our stuff. :D
I'd like to help shore up the core classes first because I think more people will need it. I'm actually on a short break before I get back to work on Monday, and if my work schedule allows writing more of these guides past the core, I'll shoot you an email (I wouldn't feel right accepting unless I knew I would definitely be working on it soon). Also, as a caveat that you probably know, since I'm guessing you read my Rogue guide, I'm not afraid to praise things I like and write funny comments about the ones I don't.
I totally understand. When you get the chance, the offer still stands. As for your caveat, while we love reading about the positives, it's the stuff people don't like that's the most useful since it helps us make our products better.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
So I'm going to write a Domain Guide right now. It will later become a full Cleric guide. Then I'll finish Fighter. Sound good?Sounds good to me! Domains are what make clerics different from one another, so analysis of the domains makes sense as a good first step.
Yeah, sounds just great! Especially that a domain guide will at least partly benefit the Inquisitor too.
If I may be so bold as to make a suugestion, color coding each domain separately for it's granted powers and spell list, (like Treantmonk did for druids and wizard schools) really is a nice way to do the presentation. This way a player can easily judge what might be more useful to him, comparing the powers with the spells.
That War Master class looks cool. For a long time I've been thinking up ideas for an "officer" class or prestige class. Glad someone did it professionally.
I have been thinking of writing a guide comparing melee versions of the Bard, Cleric and Eldritch Knight. I would like to include Dragon Disciple, but I can't figure out how to make one compete with the other classes.
So I'm going to write a Domain Guide right now. It will later become a full Cleric guide. Then I'll finish Fighter. Sound good?Sounds good to me! Domains are what make clerics different from one another, so analysis of the domains makes sense as a good first step.Yeah, sounds just great! Especially that a domain guide will at least partly benefit the Inquisitor too.
If I may be so bold as to make a suugestion, color coding each domain separately for it's granted powers and spell list, (like Treantmonk did for druids and wizard schools) really is a nice way to do the presentation. This way a player can easily judge what might be more useful to him, comparing the powers with the spells.
Well, I'm already on Earth Domain and I have been doing this already. Each power gets its own colour, including the spells as a whole. Then I give the domain a colour, with the caveat that you should pay more attention to the individual power's colours, particularly if you know you're playing a low level game (where only the 1st-level power is important).
I'll take that as a yes on the Optimization Guide lol, but I'd like to email it to you once I have it finished for content review, I'm concerned I might give too much away. (Many of the non-core guides during 3.5 were so thorough and indepth that with just a little GM adjudication you could play the class without the source material.And... I no longer have that email address lol.
Yep, it's a yes.
Here's my email: hyrum (at) otherworlds (dot) cx
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
So I'm going to write a Domain Guide right now. It will later become a full Cleric guide. Then I'll finish Fighter. Sound good?Sounds good to me! Domains are what make clerics different from one another, so analysis of the domains makes sense as a good first step.Yeah, sounds just great! Especially that a domain guide will at least partly benefit the Inquisitor too.
If I may be so bold as to make a suugestion, color coding each domain separately for it's granted powers and spell list, (like Treantmonk did for druids and wizard schools) really is a nice way to do the presentation. This way a player can easily judge what might be more useful to him, comparing the powers with the spells.
Here's the thread for the Domain Guide link here!. It's got a link to the Googledoc.
Hmmm I would like to see a guide for an unarmed fighter. Perhaps a pit fighter, a thug, a bruiser, or something like that. The issue with the fighter is the class can really be several dozen different classes
Other then that, I would love to see an alchemist guide too
Hmmm I would like to see a guide for an unarmed fighter. Perhaps a pit fighter, a thug, a bruiser, or something like that. The issue with the fighter is the class can really be several dozen different classes
Other then that, I would love to see an alchemist guide too
Yeah, Fighter really can be so many different things--it's one of the reasons I was worried about doing that guide next. I'm not going to have an unarmed Fighter in my guide, since I'll just be covering variations of Archery, Two-Handed, Sword and Shield, and Two-Weapon Fighting, but you can probably adapt from a combination of the TWF Fighter Guide and (for the feats that are under Improved Unarmed Strike) Treantmonk's Guide to Monks.
I would have written an Alchemist Guide without even asking which one to do next, but I don't want to have to rewrite when the final rules come out, so that'll have to wait for the APG.