Totally possible. Even in 3.5 DnD. Just make sure that the total enhancement bonus doesn't break past +10.
In your example, you have a +11 weapon. Vorpal (+5) + Keen (+1) + Flaming (+1) + Speed (+3) +1 = +11. You'd have to drop the total effective enhancement bonus by 1 to get this weapon before epic levels. I'd suggest dropping Keen (since it doesn't really make Vorpal any better).
I think in 3.5 it was not possible to have special abilities (like keen or flaming) for more points than the weapon had enchantment bonuses? I.e., a keen weapon had to have at least +1 enchantment bonus and vorpal (that costs +5) had to have at least a +5 enchantment bonus (making the weapon cost +10 in total)
Now the PF SRD says: "A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once."
Is this corrected in the errata or is Paizo really allowing PC's to buy for example +1 vorpal weapons (at a cost of a +6 weapon)? TWF or flurry characters go!
-John
Yes, you can have things like the +1 vorpal sword. I've seen weapons with loads of abilities in 3.5 but low enhancement bonuses as well. Flip through a few Dungeon magazines and look at the mid-level and higher-level adventures, I'm sure you'll find a few.
In other words, yes, you can put as many special abilities on the weapon as you like subject to the weapon being given a +1 enhancement bonus first and the maximum of +10 in non-epic rules.
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I think in 3.5 it was not possible to have special abilities (like keen or flaming) for more points than the weapon had enchantment bonuses? I.e., a keen weapon had to have at least +1 enchantment bonus and vorpal (that costs +5) had to have at least a +5 enchantment bonus (making the weapon cost +10 in total)
That isn't part of the D&D 3.5 ruleset, but it's a very nice houserule.
I think in 3.5 it was not possible to have special abilities (like keen or flaming) for more points than the weapon had enchantment bonuses? I.e., a keen weapon had to have at least +1 enchantment bonus and vorpal (that costs +5) had to have at least a +5 enchantment bonus (making the weapon cost +10 in total)
Now the PF SRD says: "A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once."
Is this corrected in the errata or is Paizo really allowing PC's to buy for example +1 vorpal weapons (at a cost of a +6 weapon)? TWF or flurry characters go!
-John
1. That was a very common houserule, but not official. EDIT: Ninja'd by Chris!
2. +1 vorpal weapons are fine, but don't penetrate DR anywhere near as well as a normal +3 weapon.3. Weapons don't get "enchantments." Enchantment is a school of magic, further subdivided into [charm] and [compulsion]. Weapons get "enhanced," which is really confusing because it's too easily confused with "enhancement bonuses," a specific type of "+X" bonus that weapons do get. I lobbied for magic items being "imbued," but to no avail.
Totally possible. Even in 3.5 DnD. Just make sure that the total enhancement bonus doesn't break past +10.OK, sounds broken but I'll accept it (but not in my games).
Why not? Many times the actual enhancement is better than the special ability depending on what class you have.
Totally possible. Even in 3.5 DnD. Just make sure that the total enhancement bonus doesn't break past +10.OK, sounds broken but I'll accept it (but not in my games).
Broken? How so?
A +1 weapon of flaming, frost, shocking, thundering, and corrosive qualities (or as we call them, a rainbow weapon) is +1 to hit and adds +5d6 damage +1, right? Sounds horrible. Till you realize that low level energy resistance is common at higher levels (and this is a +6 weapon for market price). You won't see most of that go off against a foe. Also, you're adding damage dice, which is nice, but they can't be multiplied on a critical. Not so big a deal.
You can now have things like a disruption undead bane ghost touch morningstar +1 early enough in your career to be useful against those pesky dread wraiths. If we use your idea, then this thing would have to wait a bit longer.
The downside of any such weapon is that it'll bypass DR/magic and then DR based on its material and type. But a +4 weapon ignores cold iron, silver, and adamantine altogether. Sure, my morningstar of undead-blasting is great against them, maybe it's also mithril to bypass DR/silver, but against a construct? Not so good.
Why not? Many times the actual enhancement is better than the special ability depending on what class you have.
This wasn't true in 3.5, but now that higher enhancement bonuses penetrate DR, they're more valuable.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Lathiira this time!
3. Weapons don't get "enchantments." Enchantment is a school of magic, further subdivided into [charm] and [compulsion]. Weapons get "enhanced," which is really confusing because it's too easily confused with "enhancement bonuses," a specific type of "+X" bonus that weapons do get. I lobbied for magic items being "imbued," but to no avail.
Kirth, why you always gotta be hatin' on old school AD&D lovers who like to keep terms like "Enchant an Item" alive?
3.5 FANBOY!! :-P
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A +1 vorpal weapon is hardly broken.
It costs about 72,300 gp to buy a +1 vorpal weapon. At that price, it's going to be INCREDIBLY rare to find for sale. And since the vorpal quality requires CL 18th to create, it's going to be just as tough, if not tougher, to find a spellcaster who can craft them in the first place.
A typical heroic NPC would have to be 17th level to even afford such a weapon according to the rules on page 454 of the core rulebook... and then only if the GM lifts the recommended restriction for weapon value. If that value remains, even a 20th level heroic NPC couldn't afford a +1 vorpal weapon.
For a PC, the first point a PC would, in theory, have enough gold to afford to purchase a +1 vorpal weapon would be at 11th level, but doing so would leave him only 10,000 gp (equivalent gear of a character less than HALF his level) to outfit the rest of his stuff. The first time table 12–4's expected wealth gain indicates that a character's increase in wealth is equal to 72,300 would be 16th level.
And of course, the GM can always simply say that a +1 vorpal weapon isn't available to be bought or crafted, so that right there kind of makes the whole argument academic if a GM thinks that a +1 vorpal weapon is broken.
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A +1 vorpal weapon is hardly broken.
Let's not forget, also, that this hypothetical character who is dumping all of this money into a +1 vorpal weapon gets absolutely no benefit whatsoever (beyond the +1 attack/damage from the enhancement) unless he rolls a natural 20 on an attack roll. Personally, for the same money, wouldn't you rather have a +1 holy speed weapon? Vorpal is one of the most horribly overrated enhancements in the game, IMO. It's a nasty surprise when you give one to an NPC and it happens to trigger, but for PCs? There's much better to be had.
A +1 vorpal weapon is hardly broken.Let's not forget, also, that this hypothetical character who is dumping all of this money into a +1 vorpal weapon gets absolutely no benefit whatsoever (beyond the +1 attack/damage from the enhancement) unless he rolls a natural 20 on an attack roll. Personally, for the same money, wouldn't you rather have a +1 holy speed weapon? Vorpal is one of the most horribly overrated enhancements in the game, IMO. It's a nasty surprise when you give one to an NPC and it happens to trigger, but for PCs? There's much better to be had.
+1. I have always thought it was overpriced.
+1. I have always thought it was overpriced.A +1 vorpal weapon is hardly broken.Let's not forget, also, that this hypothetical character who is dumping all of this money into a +1 vorpal weapon gets absolutely no benefit whatsoever (beyond the +1 attack/damage from the enhancement) unless he rolls a natural 20 on an attack roll. Personally, for the same money, wouldn't you rather have a +1 holy speed weapon? Vorpal is one of the most horribly overrated enhancements in the game, IMO. It's a nasty surprise when you give one to an NPC and it happens to trigger, but for PCs? There's much better to be had.
+1. My players would see it as a treasure item for sale. They would never consider using it when they can sell it and get what they really want.
From a Min/Max point of view a Vorpal weapon is not the best. But from a RP or old school point of view I would much rather have a Vorpal weapon over many of the other named features. Flaming, Frost, and Vorpal are the big three classics IMHO. Plus even if it only happens once or twice a night (3~4 attacks per round with fights lasting 2~4 rounds and 2~4 fights per session... call it fuzzy math.) it is still very cool to lop of the bad guys head.
Kirth, why you always gotta be hatin' on old school AD&D lovers
Geez, man, don't tell houstonderek... he'll quit my home game if he finds out it's not really 1st edition.
One other advantage of the +5 flaming sword over the +1 vorpal sword is that, 20% of the time, the vorpal sword does no damage (because the attack misses) but the +5 sword would have hit.
Greater Magic Weapon can help with this, but you are draining spell slots off the party wizard or cleric.
One other advantage of the +5 flaming sword over the +1 vorpal sword is that, 20% of the time, the vorpal sword does no damage (because the attack misses) but the +5 sword would have hit.
Although nowehere near 20%, because a not-inconsiderable amount of the time you can hit only on a 20, or miss only on a 1 -- in either case, the extra +4 isn't making much of a difference. So it's 20% of the percent that don't fit either of those two conditions.
vorpal weapons... overrated
dont believe me ask a slime
you want a weapon of killing power
try mine.
Star Fury
+4 holy, flaming, freezing, corrosive, shocking longsword.
make it out of other metals such as one of the ones listed in the pathfinder splats, and it can be even better.but anyway, it can cost more, but in the short and long run, this blade can out damage most vorpal blades, and most others to boot.
Because of how common energy resistance/immunity is, flaming, frost, and shocking tend not to be useful enough to make investing the "plus" on a weapon worthwhile, IMO. Even acid resistance is fairly common. Remember, as little as 5 resistance vs. an energy type renders that component of the weapon damage almost useless (1 chance in 6 of doing an extra point of damage; meh). There are many opponents (especially in the mid- to high-level range) with multiple resistances/immunities; for instance, the low-level tiefling has 5 resistance against cold, electricity, and fire.
Generally speaking, in a "typical" campaign (good-neutral vs. evil, variety of foes), the most cost-effective weapon is: +4 holy speed, with the remaining "+1" taken up by either keen (if the weapon's critical range is 18-20/x2 or 20/x4), thundering (if the weapon's critical range is 18-20/x2 or 20/x4 and the character already has Improved Critical; sonic resistance being rare, there's a good chance that the damage will apply and the deafening is a nice de-buff), seeking (ranged weapon), ki focus (monk weapon), or spell storing (spellcaster). Depending on the character and the campaign, bane, defending, or ghost touch may also be useful.
Of course, a +4 bane (undead) disruption ghost touch holy alchemical silver mace isn't a bad weapon for a character who hates undead... just that for many opponents it's no better than a +4 holy mace.
