Color me stupid....I decided to take my Tome Of Horrors and figure CMB and CMD for each monster and pencil it in. I use these monsters so I thought, I would save time.
CMB = Base Attack Bonus + Strength Bonus + Size Modifier.
So I did about 10 pages and then got to wondering....so I got out my trusty Paizo Pathfinder Bestiary. I calculated a few and found that what the bestiary had, was different than what I had come up with.
I dont get what I am doing wrong...or is the Bestiary wrong?
Example: Quasit: Size Tiny (+4)
Base Attack Bonus (+3)
Srength Bonus (-1)
I get +6
The Bestiary gives +0
Most of the time I get an answer that appears to be as though I used the opposite size modifier. This one is just way off. Can someone help me?
Smaller creatures have a size Penalty to CMB and CMD.
According to the rules:
CMB = Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier
Creatures that are size Tiny or smaller use their Dexterity modifier in place of their Strength modifier to determine their CMB. The special size modifier for a creature's Combat Maneuver Bonus is as follows: Fine -8, Diminutive -4, Tiny -2, Small -1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4, Colossal +8. Some feats and abilities grant a bonus to your CMB when performing specific maneuvers.
(Emphasis mine.)
EDIT: Actually, from the rules I just quoted the CMB of +0 is still wrong. Presumably it should be +3 (BAB) +2 (Dex bonus for being Tiny) -2 (special size penalty) = +3.
the size modifier applied to CMB and CMD is not the same as the one applied to attack rolls and AC, it is a special size modifier listed right there where it tells you how to do the calculations (Page 198-199 of the core rule book). Tiny creatures such as quasits get a -2 on CMB and CMD.
so a quasit gets BAB +3 + -1 (Str) + -2 (size) = 0 CMB and 10 +3 (BAB) + -1 (STR) + 2 (Dex) + -2 (Size) = 12 CMD just like is listed in the Bestiary.
damn, you are right Horgarth
CMB of a quasit:
BAB = +3
Str = -1
Size = -2
Total = +0
CMD of quasit:
10+
BAB = +3
Str = -1
Dex = +2
Size = -2
Total = 12
They look right. I think you're getting confused which modifiers are added, and which ones are subtracted.
Size modifier for Tiny is -2, not -4 or +4. Oh, and Dex does not get calculated into CMB, just CMD.
They look right. I think you're getting confused which modifiers are added, and which ones are subtracted.
Read this sentence again:
"Creatures that are size Tiny or smaller use their Dexterity modifier in place of their Strength modifier to determine their CMB."
Doh, missed that :). Hmm, well, at least I think we can see how they arrived at their numbers in the bestiary. Maybe post it for the erratta?
Doh, missed that :). Hmm, well, at least I think we can see how they arrived at their numbers in the bestiary. Maybe post it for the erratta?
I just did. :)
Hmm… I'm wondering what book should have the errata? The Bestiary or the rulebook?
Hmm… I'm wondering what book should have the errata? The Bestiary or the rulebook?
The rulebook, I suspect -- most of the Tiny creatures in the Bestiary are done the right (rulebook) way (e.g. stirge, cat, weasel, poison frog, etc.).
D'oh!
Thank you! In my rush, I missed the "special" size modifier. I was using the standard size modifier.