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Under UMD, there is the entry for activating a scroll, and we (me and my players) understand that entry clearly. Now, under "Activating Blindly" it implies that it (the Activating Blindly use of UMD) can be used to activate scrolls because of the line after the additional mishap - "This mishap is in addition to the chance for a mishap that you normally risk when you cast a spell from a scroll that you could not otherwise cast yourself."
Does this mean that you can skirt the DC 30 check for a CL 10 scroll by activating it blindly against DC 25, even if you do in fact know how to activate it? Nothing by the RAW seems to restrict it, and I have a player that won't let this go until I can find a clear ruling one way or another.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Activate blindly shouldn't be allowed when activation of a scroll is actually known. Doing so goes against the very definition of activating blindly. It seems to me that the only time a scroll could be activated blindly is when the spell on the scroll is unknown or outside the character's ability to cast level-wise. The character just starts reading it out loud with no inkling of what he's reading, casting or what will happen.
This came up a long time ago when we played 3.5 and the way it was ruled then was that when you activated something blindly the negative affects were more random/disastrous (evil GM discression).
I don't think there's a hard and fast rule in PF for this. Besides, most times using Use Magical Device comes up is in high level campaigns because the DC's are so high.
My rogue (level 11) has a UMD of +25, so activating blindly is an automatic success. It seems wrong that if I pick up a random scroll, I can automatically activate it, but if I learn that it's a CL 10 scroll of Cure Moderate Wounds, it's now more difficult to activate it.
The static DC is probably the wrong idea, since it can easily lead to cases where it's easier to activate blindly than when you know what you are doing. It probably makes sense to say that it adds and additional +N to the DC you would normally use. +5 or +10 sounds reasonable without making it truly impossible.
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I'd not allow UMD to Activate Blindly any item that has its own listing under UMD, i.e., Scrolls, Wands, and Staves. The specific use overrides the general use of the skill.
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Under UMD, there is the entry for activating a scroll, and we (me and my players) understand that entry clearly. Now, under "Activating Blindly" it implies that it (the Activating Blindly use of UMD) can be used to activate scrolls because of the line after the additional mishap - "This mishap is in addition to the chance for a mishap that you normally risk when you cast a spell from a scroll that you could not otherwise cast yourself."
Does this mean that you can skirt the DC 30 check for a CL 10 scroll by activating it blindly against DC 25, even if you do in fact know how to activate it? Nothing by the RAW seems to restrict it, and I have a player that won't let this go until I can find a clear ruling one way or another.
No it means that you can screw yourself twice. You get the mishap for UMD and the mishap for improper scroll use. Because even if you are of the proper class for using the scroll, you need to make a caster level check if your caster level is lower than the caster level of the scroll, i.e. a 5th level wizard trying to use a scroll of fireball that's written at caster level 10.
I agree that the activate blindly description raises as many questions as it answers. Like the other posters, I would say that the specific beats the general, so once you know what the spell is, the activate blindly option becomes moot. If a PC picks up a scroll and, with no attempt to decipher or understand it, tries to activate it blindly, then I'd say that a)the DC is 25 and b) the spell goes off. However, the spell is undirected so who knows what will happen to it. If it was a cure spell, then the wielder's hand will glow with positive energy I suppose. If it was a fireball, then the little spark appears undirected in front of you and explodes. If it was a scroll with three spells on it... the fun really begins!
Activate Blindly is ONLY used for items that have not been read or identified and you wish to make a Use Magic Device check to do so. Usually it is a rush event such as, "here is a scroll of Heal, please use it now!!" There is only one roll required to activate it and that is a DC 25 check. If you fail by 10 or more there is a chance for a mishap regardless of the item (in the case of a scroll there may be a 2nd mishap if the scroll is beyond your caster level, etc.).
For any scroll that has been identified using Read Magic or a Spellcraft check or any other item that has been identified using a Spellcraft check you should use the appropriate entry under the Use Magic Device entry.
If in your case you have identified the scroll but it is not on your spell list or you are not a caster, then you need a UMD check of DC 20 plus the caster level of the scroll. You may have to make a separate check if your ability score that is used for casting that scroll is not high enough. Please note that there is NO chance for a mishap if you roll ten less than the DC in this case. That only applies to Activate Blindly which you are not doing if you have used Read Magic or Spellcraft to identify the scroll.
If you roll a 1 you cannot activate it for 24 hours if that roll would count as a failure. If a 1 still succeeds then you are successful and can move on.
What if it is a scroll of "Resurrect dead thread"?
Since this thread has been resurrected:
Nobody uses a scroll without knowing what's on it. Nobody.
Player: OK, I whip out this weird paper and blindly cast it on the enemy. I hope, oh I hope, I dearly hope, that it's a disintegrate spell...
DM: Your scroll healed the enemy for 45 HP. Thanks!
Player: Awww, shucks. I guess THAT was a stupid idea. Oh well, I whip out another weird paper and prepare to blindly cast THAT one on the enemy next round.
DM: Are you sure?
Player: Oh, yeah, I totally know THIS one will be a disintegrate spell. I hope, I hope, I dearly hope. And I cross my fingers this time.
DM: (next round) That's a page from someone's diary. Nothing happens.
Player: OK, well, NEXT round I'll use THIS weird paper. Sooner or later I'll find a disintegrate, I just know I will. Hey, are my companions dead yet, you know, fighting that monster without my help? If they are, then I hope some of these weird papers have Raise Dead on them...
The reverse holds true. Would you use a random piece of weird paper to heal your friend who is at death's door and just hope that this is a Cure X Wounds spell and not, oh, any one of hundreds of spells that will actually hurt him instead? Would you use a random piece of weird paper to magically unlock a door, hoping it's a Knock spell and not, oh, any one of the thousand or so spells that won't open the door and might even cast an AE effect on you while you're at it?
Anyone, at least, any SANE one, would want to know what the scroll is before they randomly use some weird piece of paper and hope they luckily find the only needle in the giant haystack of spells.
Nobody would EVER do this.
But, for completeness, a line was added about mishaps in case anyone was CRAZY enough to try it. That doesn't mean this is a workaround for your character to use scrolls without having to overcome caster level. The only way any DM should ever allow this is if nobody at the table, DM or player, ever told you what spell is on your scroll. If you find a random scroll in a treasure hoard and never identify it, never even find out the spell's name, and carry that around until one day you decide to activate it, then I would let you use "Activate Blindly".
Are you that crazy?
For everyone else, you use your UMD to identify the scroll and probably take out your crayon and write the spell's name on top of the scroll so you can find the right one in the heat of battle - in which case, you activate it using the "Use Scroll" entry in the UMD chart.
Actually to activate a scroll, "The writing on a scroll must be deciphered before a character can use it or know exactly what spell it contains. This requires a read magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level). Deciphering a scroll is a full-round action." If I the cleric hand you the rogue a scroll and say it is a scroll of Heal, you know that information, but you have not used Read Magic or Spellcraft to have deciphered that. Hence you would need to activate blindly or go through some other means to use the scroll. It would be best to have done that prior to a battle situation but the rules are the rules as far as I see it.
So I agree that nobody would go totally blind to read a scroll, but there are times when you will need to activate one blindly.
Also, sorry, I did not see the date on the original posts so I am sorry for my part in keeping a two year old thread going. I wonder how folks even find these ones that are buried so deep other than really good searching abilities.
I would argue that if your cleric friend hands you a scroll and tells you what it is, you're now Using a Scroll, not Activating Blindly.
I argue this on two grounds:
1. The term "blindly" implies that you have no idea what is going to happen. In common usage, we might say a gunman fired "blindly" - this would imply that he had no idea what he was aiming at or even if he was aiming at anything at all, no knowledge of what is happening or likely to happen, no way to predict the outcome. If he's actually aiming at a target but missing, even badly missing by a mile, then he's not firing "blindly", he's just a really lousy shot. Applying the same meaning of the word to UMD, activating any item "blindly" means you don't know what's going to happen, no way to predict the outcome.
2. The rules mechanics clearly have a way to "use a scroll" that involves setting the difficulty based on caster level, and any use of "activate blindly" that allows a user to activate a known scroll while circumventing the caster-level mechanic such that it becomes easier to activate many scrolls blindly than it is to deliberately use the same scrolls with complete knowledge of what you're doing is clearly a broken usage of the rule. While strictly speaking the RAW doesn't make it clear that this cannot be done, I don't think any game developer in the history of game development has ever deliberately created a rule this obviously broken, going out of his way to crate a mechanic with a scaling difficulty and at the same time, in the same rule, creating a way to ignore that mechanic.
Oh, and finding old threads in this forum is easier than you think since the search results are not sorted by age so any search you do for any key words can bring back really ancient threads right at the top of the results list. Happens all the time.