RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Somewhere among Reg Poerscout-Edgerton (the casting director), Guy Ritchie (director) and Robert Downey, the decision was made to make Holmes a sort of modern anachronism. His hair, his attitude, something of his accent ... He isn't a gifted man of his time, but rather something wholy else. The "slow-motion previews" of his fighting were odd and inconsistent. (Why did we not see one against the big Frenchman, for example.) And he doesn't just notice details others miss, he notices them very very fast, under duress.
Aside from that, there were certainly a lot of explosions, which I count as a plus.
Jude Law performed his typical outstanding job. The tropes I wanted to see in a Holmes mystery were there. 1880's London was dressed as I'd expect. Rachel McAdams' Irene Adler was well-played, essentially, as Cat-Woman. The banter between Holmes and LeStrade was nicely written. Kelly Reilly's Mary Morston as a cipher, which was a shame.
Aside from that, there were certainly a lot of explosions, which I count as a plus.
That's a negative for me. Holmes is a refined Englishman. While action is certainly a plus, American-style action movie explosions aren't.
It's a very entertaining movie but it is not Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes, it is a Guy Richie movie.
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Saw this last night with my wife, my brother & sister-in-law, and some old friends (and gaming buddies). I have to say I enjoyed it immensely. I thought it was both well written and well acted.
I also enjoyed the way they made sure to explain all the mysteries near the end.
The stuff with the dog rocked.
Lastly, the build up to Moriarty was awesome. The way the build up to his identity, but still never fully revealed it, was great. And the way he achieved his true goal of obtaining just a part of the device was really cool.
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I could expand on the story for its weaker points. Yes, explosions, hand fighting, schtick of Guy Ritchie, etc.
Those things were just backseat in every scene that Jude Law and Robert Downey Jr. had dialogue. I would go to this film if it were just dialogue, dinners and hanging out at Holmes hood. There is a wonderful play on old friends that I was fearing this show would lack. It seems like the director made a conscious choice to put this first, and it really is special because of it.
It actually spoke to me, a 40 year old. Not a 16 year old impressed by CGI and the usual segment audience research book of tricks.
Exactly how Guy Ritchie is this movie? I want to take my mother to see it, she loves Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law, but she doesn't like Guy Ritchie films all that much. I guess what I'm asking is, is it Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law or a bunch of Guy Ritchie flowing from their mouths?
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It's a very entertaining movie but it is not Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes, it is a Guy Richie movie.
It was quite a bit more faithful to the mythos than I expected, however. Yes, they wove in many modern action-adventure elements, but the characters had many of the essential characteristics -- Holmes as a man depressed and slightly mad without stimulation, Watson as his hetero life partner (even the gambling is faithful -- just watched "Old Shoscombe Place" on the BBC 'Casebook of Sherlock Holmes' -- Jude Law's third credited role on IMDB, by the way -- and they make mention of it there), Irene Adler as 'the woman', Holmes as the surprisingly agile and strong master of bartitsu and boxing.
I liked it quite a bit, and although I'd have preferred a bit more deduction and a bit less action, it worked. I think a sequel could do even better, and the chemistry between Jude Law and Robert Downey completely worked for me.
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Exactly how Guy Ritchie is this movie? I want to take my mother to see it, she loves Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law, but she doesn't like Guy Ritchie films all that much. I guess what I'm asking is, is it Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law or a bunch of Guy Ritchie flowing from their mouths?
I have seen other Guy Ritchie films. This isn't one of them.
I liked it quite a bit, and although I'd have preferred a bit more deduction and a bit less action, it worked.
The movie industry as a whole has been struggling with that more recently. The "DaVinici Code" and "National Treasure" are two that use more deduction over action, and the action that does exist is a lot of running and/or car chases where bad guys all apparently went to the Stormtrooper firearms range for training. (95% miss chance)
That may or may not be more realistic, but I'm sure a lot of us(particularly guys) would debate that, at that point it doesn't rate a $8.00+ ticket anymore. EDIT: That's not to say it can't be done and still maintain interest, one example being the "Doctor Who" series, but that's not for everyone. *shrug*
That said I haven't seen the movie yet and look forward to it, though at first glance(trailer) it reminded me of "The League of Extrodinary Gentlemen", which isn't exactly a good thing.
Did not know. So cool. Want.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Do they touch on Holmes love affair with the needle?
And I've read too many comics, when I see 'Irene Adler' I think Destiny first, Holmes second.
(That said, I'd love a historical X-piece where Raven and Irene encoutner Holmes and Raven thinks he's a mutant, but Irene confirms he's not.)
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Do they touch on Holmes love affair with the needle?
And I've read too many comics, when I see 'Irene Adler' I think Destiny first, Holmes second.
(That said, I'd love a historical X-piece where Raven and Irene encoutner Holmes and Raven thinks he's a mutant, but Irene confirms he's not.)
It has been hinted at a few times that Destiny and the Holmesian Irene Adler are in fact the same person.
Do they touch on Holmes love affair with the needle?
Not directly, but it does go into his depression and such when he doesn't have something to occupy his mind.
I am really at a loss about Xalbulba's claim that it is not Sir Doyle's Sherlock since it is probably the most accurate film version I can remember seeing. Is it perfect? Of course not. But what film/television version has been better?
Do they touch on Holmes love affair with the needle?Not directly, but it does go into his depression and such when he doesn't have something to occupy his mind.
I am really at a loss about Xalbulba's claim that it is not Sir Doyle's Sherlock since it is probably the most accurate film version I can remember seeing. Is it perfect? Of course not. But what film/television version has been better?
Watch any of the Jerremy Brett Sherlock movies as they are a slavish adaptation of Conan Doyle's stories and then compare them to Guy Richie's version and you'll understand.
The bigest deference is the movie turned Sherlock from a armchair detective into a action hero.
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Do they touch on Holmes love affair with the needle?Not directly, but it does go into his depression and such when he doesn't have something to occupy his mind.
I am really at a loss about Xalbulba's claim that it is not Sir Doyle's Sherlock since it is probably the most accurate film version I can remember seeing. Is it perfect? Of course not. But what film/television version has been better?
Watch any of the Jerremy Brett Sherlock movies as they are a slavish adaptation of Conan Doyle's stories and then compare them to Guy Richie's version and you'll understand.
The bigest deference is the movie turned Sherlock from a armchair detective into a action hero.
Yes, an action hero he was. However, that is not the strength of this movie.
Yes, an action hero he was. However, that is not the strength of this movie.
But, from all I am seeing and hearing. This is a film about a character that just happens to also be named Sherlock Holmes. :(
Accurate it or not, it was entertaining. No regrets seeing it.
I thoroughly enjoyed it, might probably go see it again with another bunch of friends.
One thing is definitely Guy Ritchie, namely the show first, then reveal in detail later through "flash backs" - which I think works very well for this kind of movie too.
Great chemistry between Downey Jr. and Jude Law.
Exactly. Don't comment on a movie unless you've seen it.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether they've seen the movie or not. Believe it or not, we have these things called movie trailers, that preview a movie in order to let you form an opinion before spending your time and money. I find them quite useful.
That said, I saw the movie(30 minutes after my previous post) and enjoyed it. I thought it was a decent adaptation for a modern film targeted at a young adult audience. Jude Law(& costume design) stole the show IMO, normally with popular actors you can see through the role to the actor, this was not the case. It was worth MY time and money.
The one big thing I disliked about the movie was the whole analysis on how to cripple a foe, but then not being able to do it against the french guy. I just thought that was lame. Either leave it out, or have it work all the time. It is like Holmes had a class ability that could only be used 1/week and he wasted it on a boxing match or something.
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The one big thing I disliked about the movie was the whole analysis on how to cripple a foe, but then not being able to do it against the french guy. I just thought that was lame. Either leave it out, or have it work all the time. It is like Holmes had a class ability that could only be used 1/week and he wasted it on a boxing match or something.
I thought that was something Guy Ritchie-like. I'll sweep that one under the carpet, but it did lend to actually feeling the impact of those moves a lot more when they actually did play out.
The one big thing I disliked about the movie was the whole analysis on how to cripple a foe, but then not being able to do it against the french guy. I just thought that was lame. Either leave it out, or have it work all the time. It is like Holmes had a class ability that could only be used 1/week and he wasted it on a boxing match or something.
I actually thought the analysis was less about Holmes' ability to fight really well, and more about his ability to notice and factor in details extremely fast.
In many Sherlock Holmes interpretations, he looks at a crime scene and dissects all the clues in a long monologue. This time it was done in fight scenes. However, they're making the same point.
You'll notice that after a couple times, the movie stops doing that, because they audience already has the gist that Holmes has this amazing ability. Later you find he does do this with the crime scenes too, as he reflects back on the clues when he's talking to Lord Blackwood.
I will concede it would have been more consistant if he had gotten it to work on the brawny frenchman.
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The one big thing I disliked about the movie was the whole analysis on how to cripple a foe, but then not being able to do it against the french guy. I just thought that was lame. Either leave it out, or have it work all the time. It is like Holmes had a class ability that could only be used 1/week and he wasted it on a boxing match or something.
Exactly! 1/week is still good! you could make a lot of money betting on yourself with a 1/week power!!
That, or perhaps his ability only works against humanoids? (the French guy was clearly of the giant type... you gotta be able to reach the vitals in order to affect them... :) )
Being French Canadian, I can tell you, from the French giant's bad accent, that he did not sound really really French... but a few internet searches show that he is... so maybe his lines were too short to show the true Frenchiness?? :P
http://an.capacadie.com/system/files/articles/10/08a_robert_maillet_0.jpg
http://100grana.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/kurrgan.jpg
Here listed as "Lutteur Robert Maillet", French for "Wrestler Robert Maillet"
http://www.canoe.com/divertissement/cinema/entrevues/2009/01/14/G_ant_Kurrg an400.jpg
He was in 300 too...
http://wearemoviegeeks.com/wp-content/robertmaillet.jpg
I hope we see him again in other movies. He'd make a kickass ogre or troll warband leader! :)
The one big thing I disliked about the movie was the whole analysis on how to cripple a foe, but then not being able to do it against the french guy. I just thought that was lame. Either leave it out, or have it work all the time. It is like Holmes had a class ability that could only be used 1/week and he wasted it on a boxing match or something.Exactly! 1/week is still good! you could make a lot of money betting on yourself with a 1/week power!!
That, or perhaps his ability only works against humanoids? (the French guy was clearly of the giant type... you gotta be able to reach the vitals in order to affect them... :) )
Being French Canadian, I can tell you, from the French giant's bad accent, that he is not really French... wonder who this guy is and I hope we see him again in other movies. He'd make a kickass ogre or troll warband leader! :)
Robert Maillet, who plays Dredger, the giant guy, is actually Canadian (from New Brunswick).
Edit: damn, you did the research yourself ;-)
It does have a few warts, Ritchies' boxing match is cool, but it is discordant and the fast-cuts particularly in the first act are a little distracting. But these are small points, especially if this film is held up against the average comic-book superhero flick.
It's a fun popcorn movie.
Cheers
Ditto - I liked this a lot more than I thought I would - I'm not a Richie fan. I didn't think the chemistry between Homes and Irene Adler worked in the film - the chemistry between Homes and Watson - as old friends who get on each others nerves at times - was excellent. (I didn't mind some of the fast cuts - he just used them way too much - which I find is a problem with some directors over the last decade.)
(On a side note - I'm a big fan of the Homes BBC TV series that played on PBS a few years ago. Different feel than the movie but both still fun for me.)
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The one big thing I disliked about the movie was the whole analysis on how to cripple a foe, but then not being able to do it against the french guy. I just thought that was lame. Either leave it out, or have it work all the time. It is like Holmes had a class ability that could only be used 1/week and he wasted it on a boxing match or something.Exactly! 1/week is still good! you could make a lot of money betting on yourself with a 1/week power!!
That, or perhaps his ability only works against humanoids? (the French guy was clearly of the giant type... you gotta be able to reach the vitals in order to affect them... :) )
Being French Canadian, I can tell you, from the French giant's bad accent, that he is not really French... wonder who this guy is and I hope we see him again in other movies. He'd make a kickass ogre or troll warband leader! :)
Robert Maillet, who plays Dredger, the giant guy, is actually Canadian (from New Brunswick).
For some reason he reminded me of Andre the Giant in The Princess Bride. I was kinda rooting for him to join up with Holmes and Watson in the end. Oh well, such is life.
Edit: And I see that, like Andre, he was a pro wrestler as well.
Me and my wife saw Sherlock Holmes and Avatar(3D) in the same day and came away agreeing that Sherlock Holmes was the better movie.
Perhaps Holme's pre-fight analysis didn't work on the french guy because he was in great shape and had no discernable weakness that Holmes could exploit.
Cheers
Mark
Me and my wife saw Sherlock Holmes and Avatar(3D) in the same day and came away agreeing that Sherlock Holmes was the better movie.
Perhaps Holme's pre-fight analysis didn't work on the french guy because he was in great shape and had no discernable weakness that Holmes could exploit.
Cheers
Mark
I would have found that more interesting if they had played it out like that. Have Holmes, think he knows a way to disable the guy with an elaborate "hit here and then there" scheme, then tries and the guy is still standing and Holmes goes, "Oh dear."
Of course, even Johnny Cage could find a weakness on a guy like this.
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The one big thing I disliked about the movie was the whole analysis on how to cripple a foe, but then not being able to do it against the french guy. I just thought that was lame. Either leave it out, or have it work all the time. It is like Holmes had a class ability that could only be used 1/week and he wasted it on a boxing match or something.
Oh, the answer is easy. Being a big Frenchman, he had a +8 to all saves vs everything English :)
Watched Sherlock Holmes last night. Got it from Red Box for $1. It was good, I hope they make a few more in this style.
It was cool that Sherlock Holmes knew >Wing Chun Kung Fu< . That actually fits, because London is a mixing-pot city, and Sherlock certainly would know a chinese person willing to teach him Wing Chun.
I think Downey did a fine job. I am spoiled by Jeremy Brett however. Don't think anyone will ever be able to touch Brett's Sherlock Holmes.
I justed rented it last night and I thought it was a little slow to begin with but turned into a great movie once things started progressing.
I really thought the whole bro-mance bewtween holmes and watson was very well played.
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Watched Sherlock Holmes last night. Got it from Red Box for $1. It was good, I hope they make a few more in this style.
It was cool that Sherlock Holmes knew >Wing Chun Kung Fu< . That actually fits, because London is a mixing-pot city, and Sherlock certainly would know a chinese person willing to teach him Wing Chun.
I think Downey did a fine job. I am spoiled by Jeremy Brett however. Don't think anyone will ever be able to touch Brett's Sherlock Holmes.
Except that it was a violation of the martial arts codes to teach it to westerners...so he must be very friendly with Holmes or very corrupt and bribeable.
Except that it was a violation of the martial arts codes to teach it to westerners...so he must be very friendly with Holmes or very corrupt and bribeable.Watched Sherlock Holmes last night. Got it from Red Box for $1. It was good, I hope they make a few more in this style.
It was cool that Sherlock Holmes knew >Wing Chun Kung Fu< . That actually fits, because London is a mixing-pot city, and Sherlock certainly would know a chinese person willing to teach him Wing Chun.
I think Downey did a fine job. I am spoiled by Jeremy Brett however. Don't think anyone will ever be able to touch Brett's Sherlock Holmes.
I was hoping someone would bring this up. My further assumption is he found out about the system in the opium dens, or similar nefarious place(s). It was then over a period of time, through a process of demonstrating his own particular talents, and sufficiently impressing a Wing Chun practitioner, that he gained access to training.
I'll wager that he was probably taught by another, more advanced "student" illegally. Yes, a Sifu would not have trained him back in those days.
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The one big thing I disliked about the movie was the whole analysis on how to cripple a foe, but then not being able to do it against the french guy. I just thought that was lame. Either leave it out, or have it work all the time. It is like Holmes had a class ability that could only be used 1/week and he wasted it on a boxing match or something.
Actually if you watch the fight you'll see he does it after taking a moment and the only thing that saves the french guy was that holmes miscalculated in swinging something and a pipe gets in his way, I remember watching that, the only difference was that they didn't show the calculation. But it's the case that one little interruption. In this case the pipe, was what caused the frenchman to not get beaten, and then after that he just never gives holmes enough time to formulate another plan.
I enjoyed this film, and I was dreadfully afraid based on the trailers that it was going to turn holmes into an action hero, but I felt that the way they did it was faithful enough to make it interesting and feel honest.
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Exactly. Don't comment on a movie unless you've seen it.Everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether they've seen the movie or not. Believe it or not, we have these things called movie trailers, that preview a movie in order to let you form an opinion before spending your time and money. I find them quite useful.
Well the thing about movie trailers is that often times they can be outright misleading, overstate the case, or use a bunch of deleted clips or actually film clips for use in the trailer that then aren't seen in the movie.
Great examples of this can be found, but I think the most obvious in recent years had to have been the informant, which while still a great movie wound up being nothing like what you expected based off of the previews.
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I enjoyed this film, and I was dreadfully afraid based on the trailers that it was going to turn holmes into an action hero, but I felt that the way they did it was faithful enough to make it interesting and feel honest.
You silly English and your plans !
Us French just all have the secret Power [WING IT !] and the Smite English ! extraordinary power ...
Really, nothing to make much of ... does not even result in a LA ... :)
Had I gone expecting to see Sherlock Holmes, I would have been dreadfully disappointed.
But, based on the trailer, I didn't go expecting to see Sherlock Holmes. I went expecting to see the Great Victorian Superhero. The Batman schtick was a little out of place, even then, but I could roll with it. It was a really fun film of no lasting importance and I look forward to the inevitable sequel.
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I think Downey did a fine job. I am spoiled by Jeremy Brett however. Don't think anyone will ever be able to touch Brett's Sherlock Holmes.
Ditto on Brett. Finest portrayal of I've seen Holmes. Although some of the later episodes, he's slipping. I heard somewhere that he was ill.
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Watch any of the Jerremy Brett Sherlock movies as they are a slavish adaptation of Conan Doyle's stories and then compare them to Guy Richie's version and you'll understand.The bigest deference is the movie turned Sherlock from a armchair detective into a action hero.
Depending on how closely you read the books, Holmes WAS an action hero. He was a crack shot with a pistol who could have been a professional boxer if he had followed through with it. He was also an expert stick fighter, and routinely disarmed (or just plain beat the crap out of) people with his cane. He only sat in an armchair in between cases, in those lonely periods of his life where he wasn't crawling around in the dirt and whupping folks with his riding crop.
Also, "English" is really the only part of "English Gentleman" that applies to Holmes. The man was described as a total bohemian. His house was a chaotic mess, he routinely lied to the police, he would trespass (and break and enter) whenever he felt like it, he was a drug addict, impatient, his ego was legendary ... well ... he was Dr. House. He was Dr. House by Victorian standards, so he'd probably come off as an uptight conservative today, but no one who spent any time around him would have called him a gentleman with a straight face.
His portrayal on television was substantially different than his portrayal in the books, but that probably had more to do with decency standards and the like. Jeremy Brett did a fantastic adaptation of him, but it wasn't flawless. A lot of it was still based on Basil Rathbone's Holmes from the 30s/40s. For example, Brett wore the deerstalker cap and cape (Holmes never did in the book) and used the distinctive curved pipe (Holme's pipe in the book was just a pipe. It was never described as being distinctive in any way except that he was always smoking one). He was also limited by the network in how much he could show of drug use and violence.
I liked the new Holmes movie. Very authentic to the source material. I especially love Jude Law's not-fat, not-bumbling, not-prim & proper, not-easily baffled portrayal of Watson. The man was a recent army vet in those books, not a bumbling sidekick.
It was cool that Sherlock Holmes knew >Wing Chun Kung Fu< . That actually fits, because London is a mixing-pot city, and Sherlock certainly would know a Chinese person willing to teach him Wing Chun.
Arthur Conan Doyle's writing's describe Holmes as a capable fencer, effective stickfighter, and gifted amateur boxer. In the original tales, Holmes also claims to have bested Moriarty at the Richenbach Falls by his surprising use of "Baritsu" or "Japanese Wrestling". He supposedly picked up the style during his foreign travels.
Since the martial art of Bartitsu wasn't developed until a few years after the date of this fight, purists suspect that Watson misremembered the art's name and Holmes had actually studied Jujitsu while in the Orient.