Doctor Who: The End of Time


Television

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Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Loztastic wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

and, because some people really, REALLY want to see it

the regeneration on youtube

Umm your link does not work. I think your BBCodes are not right for these boards.

Fixed.


various theories for who the woman is

1)His mother - fairly safe, thats whats been reported in the media

2)Romana - female time-lord, friends with the doctor

3)Donna - is part time-lord, even if she doesn't know it. its entierly possible she ends up on Gallifrey somehow, in the past/future in a wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey way. it would also explain the link to wilf

4)His Wife - he has said he has kids, so there could be a Mrs. Doctor

5)Susan - i know she ended up on earth in the future, but did she stay there?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Loztastic wrote:
oddly, when you think about it, that's a big part of doctor who itself - the HUGE distrust of authority and people in power, in a sceptical way, runs through the entire show.

Have you seen Doctor Who: Revolutionary Or Tool Of The Man?, which graphs the Doctor's willingness to overthrow the status quo over the entire series?


Smirks because he knows Karen Gillan(slightly)


Charles Evans 25 wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:

And the big reveal about who Timothy Daltons Presidential Time Lord was caught me totally by surprise..

looking forward to the wider debate once our American cousins have seen it tomorrow

The name on its own might not mean anything. We've had more than half a dozen King Edwards in the UK, don't forget, two Queen Elizabeths, and several King Georges.

No sorry Charles I have to disagree mate..that is not a name you throw around lightly in the Whoniverse..and nothing RTD ever wrote was for no purpose..

Besides who doesn't want to see Timothy Dalton back again at some point...

Dark Archive

DM Wellard wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:

And the big reveal about who Timothy Daltons Presidential Time Lord was caught me totally by surprise..

looking forward to the wider debate once our American cousins have seen it tomorrow

The name on its own might not mean anything. We've had more than half a dozen King Edwards in the UK, don't forget, two Queen Elizabeths, and several King Georges.

No sorry Charles I have to disagree mate..that is not a name you throw around lightly in the Whoniverse..and nothing RTD ever wrote was for no purpose..

Exactly. There are some names that are never used unless they are meant to be THAT character. It would be kind of like if Christopher Tolkien wrote a book that included a character named Gandalf, but tried to tell everyone it's not THAT Gandalf.

Dark Archive

Loztastic wrote:

various theories for who the woman is

1)His mother - fairly safe, thats whats been reported in the media

According to Julie Gardner this is the correct answer.

Dark Archive

Matthew Morris wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

As to my view of the first Doctor Who episode to air in 2010, I wish that they'd trimmed that ending and given us more earlier on in the episode instead. I suppose Davies and/or Tennant wanted a long goodbye though...

But yay, now the man responsible for Blink and who made the phrase 'Hey, who turned out the lights?' spine-chilling is in charge, and we have a new Doctor!
And if Wiki's any indication, the weeping angels will be back.

Well they were voted #1 scariest Dr. Who monster in the latest poll with 55% of th vote. The Master was #2 with 12% and th Daleks were #3 with 4%, so that tells you something.


DM Wellard wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:

And the big reveal about who Timothy Daltons Presidential Time Lord was caught me totally by surprise..

looking forward to the wider debate once our American cousins have seen it tomorrow

The name on its own might not mean anything. We've had more than half a dozen King Edwards in the UK, don't forget, two Queen Elizabeths, and several King Georges.

No sorry Charles I have to disagree mate..that is not a name you throw around lightly in the Whoniverse..and nothing RTD ever wrote was for no purpose..

Besides who doesn't want to see Timothy Dalton back again at some point...

Oh I agree it would be very nice to see Timothy Dalton back, but even for a show that features time-travel and paradoxes, the implications of that name with what you suggest messes with continuity or retcons in a pretty major way. I'm pretty sure that the five doctors episode established that that particular person wasn't really a direct player on the Gallifreyan scene anymore.

Of course if Russell T. Davies' Doctor Who is 'Ultimate Doctor Who' (sorry, that's a poke at Marvel comics) set in a completely different version of things, then continuity with the first seven Doctors or so doesn't really matter.


David Fryer wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

As to my view of the first Doctor Who episode to air in 2010, I wish that they'd trimmed that ending and given us more earlier on in the episode instead. I suppose Davies and/or Tennant wanted a long goodbye though...

But yay, now the man responsible for Blink and who made the phrase 'Hey, who turned out the lights?' spine-chilling is in charge, and we have a new Doctor!
And if Wiki's any indication, the weeping angels will be back.
Well they were voted #1 scariest Dr. Who monster in the latest poll with 55% of th vote. The Master was #2 with 12% and th Daleks were #3 with 4%, so that tells you something.

The season preview available on the BBC website would seem to indicate that Weeping Angels are around again.


I suppose if, during the time war, they brought the master back, to be their ultimate assasin (as per "the sound of the drums"), they would consider bringing back all sorts of other people

Silver Crusade

The first part of the 2 parter was "meh" I got tired of watching the Doctor run all over the place. Was sick of them hearing the Master laugh every minute. How it ended was still kinda Meh.

Second part was slightly better. More plot. The part of Wilfry in the box reminded me of what another person said on Syfy thread...Wrath of Khan with Spock. Then, they played the last of the episode out waaay too long. His death was like, is it ever going to get over with...

It was super cool to see Rose again, though. She lost some weight after having the baby in real life. Matt Smith seems really young. Look forward to seeing how his run on Dr. Who pans out. I enjoyed Tennant a lot and think him and Tom Baker were the best out of the Dr. Who's. Wish him well and good luck in Hollywood with his new NBC series.

Shadow Lodge

Theories for the female Time Lord, and what I think of them:

1) Doctor's Mother - Eh, possible, but I'd rather it be someone the audience has actually encountered in some manner before.

2) Doctor's Daughter - No, not the cloned version...Susan's mom. Same complaint as for his mother...we've never seen her before.

3) Susan, AKA the Doctor's Granddaughter - Possible. But if it had been her, I think there would have been more to the scene that simply them looking at each other briefly.

4) Romana - My personal favorite theory. She did mention to Wilf that she had been lost once...perhaps in E-Space? Maybe I'm just biased because of all the characters that are suggested, Romana is my favorite.

5) The Rani - What? Moronic. The Rani wouldn't have disagreed with Rassilon...she would have suggested this course of action before he did.

6) Donna - Just no. Retarded. They were Time-Locked, and I doubt that Donna's bit of Time Lordliness includes regeneration.

Danubus wrote:
It was super cool to see Rose again, though.

God no. I'm so excited that Moffatt apparently hates the character, because she's hung over the series horribly. In series 3, it seemed like the Doctor took some kind of sick pleasure in trying to make Martha feel inferior to her at every given opportunity. Then in series 4, she started appearing in the background every few episodes. In Journey's End she's brought back for no g*%@!#n real reason (not that any of the other previous companions had any real use either). She was RTD's Mary Sue. He seemed obsessed with trotting her out. And when he couldn't trot her out in person, he'd reference her...like with The Next Doctor's Rosita (an utterly pointless character that only existed so that the Doctor could say "Nice name!"). I'm looking forward to watching Doctor Who again, and not Rose Tyler: Defender of Earth (which is actually a spinoff that RTD wanted to make).


very minor spoiler:
When Rose walks into her tower-block, one of the pieces of Graffiti behind her is a Big Bad Wolf. made me smile, anyway!

Liberty's Edge

The new Doctor looks like a potato. >:P


Lets give the guy a chance ..

I'm old enough to remember the howls that went up when..John Pertwee replaced Patrick Throughton ..and the ones when Tom Baker replaced him..and when Peter Davison replaced him..and when he was replaced by Colin Baker(well those were justified)...(we won't talk about Sylvester McCoy and Paul McGann was a one off and doesnt count really..)..oh and wasn't there a lot of moaning when a certain David Tennant replaced Christopher Ecclestone?

It's sort of Tradition to moan about the new Doctor...and then just get on with enjoying the show

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

I was really disappointed with the first part of this one, but in my opinion the follow-up made up for it. I really thought it was quite good. I think it's a valid criticism to say that, in a way, the last bit of the episode was more about Russel T. Davies than the Doctor, but frankly I think that's appropriate given what Davies has accomplished for Doctor Who as a property and for what he has given the fans of Doctor Who, who after all spent many years in the wilderness with nothing whatsoever.

After 5 years of his reign as executive producer he has reinvigorated the franchise, build a hit series that has become an international sensation, and significantly expanded the audience for the show. And all in a way that was respectful of the original traditions of the program, even if at first it didn't always seem to be the case.

I remember very early on in the first season, when this show had just been brought back and with the taste of the Fox TV movie still lingering in the mouth like an old cigarette. At times I remember mourning all of the little elements of the show I had grown to love over the years: the Time Lords, the Daleks, the Master, Gallifrey, UNIT, K9, Sarah Jane Smith, the Sontarans, the Cybermen, multi-Doctor stories...

Russel T. Davies eventually left us with the series exactly as he inherited it as far as continuity is concerned. His Doctor Who IS the canonical original Doctor Who program. That wasn't always such a certain statement, but it is undeniably true.

And he is handing off the show, in its complete form, to the writer who gave us Blink and The Girl in the Fireplace and The Doctor Dances and Silence in the Library.

If he wants to do a victory lap at the end of his reign, I say it is well deserved.

That's why it wasn't surprising to see Rose Tyler again at the end, even if I agree the character has sort of overstayed her welcome. I thought it a deft touch that the Doctor's final encounter with Rose happens just before she first meets the Doctor in the first episode of the new series. Her playful "See you later!" literally brought Russel T. Davies' reign full circle.

The Doctor is dead!

Long live the Doctor!


The second part was much better than the first. I'm interested to see how the new actor plays out.


I agree with Erik (not to be a sycophant). After having been warned about the last 15 minutes, I didn't find to be as unpalatable as it had been described.

In many ways, RTD has set everything up so that Moffatt can do whatever he wants with the program. It has been reset in such a way that it can go off in a new direction, but retain these five seasons as canon. At the same time, RTD has also given fans some closure. We don't have to wonder whatever happened to certain companions... or if the Doctor ever thought of them ever again. We know.

The one thing I liked about School Reunion was it was the first time we ever saw the Doctor held emotionally accountable for his actions. I don't actually hold the character responsible so much as the writers and producers, but the classic Doctors (especially Tom Baker) used to pick people up and drop them off without much of an emotional exchange at all. Bye! I thought Sarah Jane Smith was wonderful in School Reunion for finally putting some light on that subject. Traveling with the Doctor changes your life and perspective forever, and you can't go back to the person you once were.

So in that sense, I'd rather RTD have his last 15 minutes than just declare, "Right, and no one ever heard of those characters ever again."

I was pleased to see Mickey and Martha particularly.

I can see the frustration with Rose, being that she's had her final goodbye several dozen times now. I suppose one more didn't bug me as much as I thought it would. However now she has had her triple deluxe final goodbye and that should be it.

I still don't care for the new take on the Master, but I liked him in this second episode more than the first. The parts that I did like about Simm's Master were when he wasn't shouting and cackling, but rather the subdued intimacy between him and the Doctor. That understated familiarity that these two know each other better than even the audience itself actually knows the Doctor.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Two thoughts hit me this morning in the shower

Spoiler:
I think Dalton was really playing Rassilon. The Five doctors implies that he was imprisoned in the tower, and if you're desperate enough to launch a Xanatos Gambit with the Master, why wouldn't you let your most powerful tyrant out to lead the war effort.

Spoiler:
We could always see Jenny have a daughter named Susan in a future episode, either by adoption or the old fashioned way. Or... Georgia Moffet could have a massive irony failure and have a daughter named Susan...

The Exchange

Erik Mona wrote:

I was really disappointed with the first part of this one, but in my opinion the follow-up made up for it. I really thought it was quite good. I think it's a valid criticism to say that, in a way, the last bit of the episode was more about Russel T. Davies than the Doctor, but frankly I think that's appropriate given what Davies has accomplished for Doctor Who as a property and for what he has given the fans of Doctor Who, who after all spent many years in the wilderness with nothing whatsoever.

After 5 years of his reign as executive producer he has reinvigorated the franchise, build a hit series that has become an international sensation, and significantly expanded the audience for the show. And all in a way that was respectful of the original traditions of the program, even if at first it didn't always seem to be the case.

I remember very early on in the first season, when this show had just been brought back and with the taste of the Fox TV movie still lingering in the mouth like an old cigarette. At times I remember mourning all of the little elements of the show I had grown to love over the years: the Time Lords, the Daleks, the Master, Gallifrey, UNIT, K9, Sarah Jane Smith, the Sontarans, the Cybermen, multi-Doctor stories...

Russel T. Davies eventually left us with the series exactly as he inherited it as far as continuity is concerned. His Doctor Who IS the canonical original Doctor Who program. That wasn't always such a certain statement, but it is undeniably true.

And he is handing off the show, in its complete form, to the writer who gave us Blink and The Girl in the Fireplace and The Doctor Dances and Silence in the Library.

If he wants to do a victory lap at the end of his reign, I say it is well deserved.

I have to say that I disagree. Not with the fact fact that Davies has revitalised the show, because he has and everything there you say is correct. I just disagree with a producer/writer's swansong being waved in the face of the audience in a "Without me, there would be nothing! NOTHING!" -sort of way. The point is that it is about story, and the character of the Doctor. When a writer begins indulging himself like that, intruding on the story for egotistical reasons, then he really should be shuffled out the door quickly (and bear in mind a lot of his actual stories have been fiarly crap - he was much better at steering the series and setting the tone than actually coming up with decent stories). Dr Who has had lots of great producers in the past who didn't feel the need for all of that stuff. I mean, it's not like he's Orson Welles. Anyone British will have heard of Chucklevision - Davies was involved in that too (according to the irrefutable Wikipedia).

(Oh yeah, and all the emoting as well - yuck!)

*It should be said I have always been sceptical of the latest Dr Who and so anything I say should be taken in that light.

Dark Archive

I liked the tour around the Whoverse at the end. The part with Jack was funny and I almost cried when the Dr. tells Donna's mom that he payed for Donna's wedding gift with money he borrowed from Donna's now deceased dad. I could have done without the bit with Rose, mostly because I would have liked to see him say goodbye to Rose from the current time. That would have been more emotional than him saying "goodbye" to Rose from a time before he knew her. Not to mention the fact that it was the only person that he visited out of synch with relative time.


David Fryer wrote:
I liked the tour around the Whoverse at the end. The part with Jack was funny and I almost cried when the Dr. tells Donna's mom that he payed for Donna's wedding gift with money he borrowed from Donna's now deceased dad. I could have done without the bit with Rose, mostly because I would have liked to see him say goodbye to Rose from the current time. That would have been more emotional than him saying "goodbye" to Rose from a time before he knew her. Not to mention the fact that it was the only person that he visited out of synch with relative time.

Well, considering that he'd have to open another hole between dimensions to do it, that probably wouldn't be the best way to go, since he'd be starting an old problem all over again. Besides, that Rose already has her Doctor, such as he is. No point in saying goodbye only to open old wounds.

I got a good laugh out of his goodbye to Jack though. Everyone else, he saves a life. With Jack, he just gets him laid.

Dark Archive

Shadowborn wrote:
I got a good laugh out of his goodbye to Jack though. Everyone else, he saves a life. With Jack, he just gets him laid.

1) Jack wouldn't want it any other way.

2) Jack is immortal for the next ~5 billion years.

Would be nice to see how he loses his body from the neck down though.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Shadowborn wrote:
With Jack, he just gets him laid.

Personally, I don't think Jack actually needed any help hooking up with Midshipman Frame in that situation.

I have to say, I'm always stunned by anti-Rose sentiment. To me, she's the best companion EVER, and by a wide, wide margin.


Vic Wertz wrote:
I have to say, I'm always stunned by anti-Rose sentiment. To me, she's the best companion EVER, and by a wide, wide margin.

I don't quite get it either.. though sometimes I wonder if its just because they wrote and filmed a very meaningful and epic goodbye that allegedly can't ever be undone.. and then they do it anyway.

As if to say "this is forever.. until next time, and then it'll be forever.. but hey, it's Russell's birthday and it would mean so much to him, but I swear after this one last time it really will be forever godammit!..."

And the aggression gets transferred to character.

I recently watched some historical documentary on Doctor Who.. I think it was a DVD extra from 'Trial of a Timelord" with an aged Colin Baker. And he's practically pleading with the camera saying, "I didn't want to wear that silly jacket and act like dick.." But more often than not, who gets the blame?


I was pretty disappointed, I must say. I haven't watched every episode over the past few years, but the first part was perhaps the worst I've ever seen. The second was better, but that's like saying Star Wars: Episode 3 was better than Episode 1.

Although I accept that Davies has re-invigorated the show, bringing it to a whole new generation of fans, the last fifteen minutes seemed very self-indulgent to me. The moment when the Doctor figures out what's happened was very well played, as was his final moment, but the rest was just fifteen minutes of padding, that might have been better spent helping the plot seem less creaky.

Also, David Fryer, we Brits get more excited hearing a whoopie cushion go off than we do when our Prime Minister speaks, although it's easy to confuse the two.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Vic,

I'll be happy take the companions as they please. I like Rose's relationship with the Doctor best of all the companions, although Donna's is a very close second. But Rose-on-her-own? Seems more than a little self-centered. Which is fine as acharacter flaw; goodness knows I don't want my fictional characters to be perfect. But I think that particular personality trait is what galls some fans.

--+--+--

Am I alone in noticing that Smith bears a very strong resemblence to Hartnell?


Chris Mortika wrote:


Am I alone in noticing that Smith bears a very strong resemblence to Hartnell?

My wife (a native Brit), made that remark as well. I didn't see it, but I'm not that familiar with the First Doctor.

She speculates that Matt Smith will be a throw back to the 'wise old Doctor' paradigm. Thinking it will be a good contrast with his youthful appearance, and be a good match with the youthful Karen Gillan.

Another clue she pointed me at is that somewhere offical (BBC website maybe) is that Karen Gillan is be referred to as the Doctor's new "Assistant".

Not companion. Assistant.

That is more in keeping with a Hartnell 'companion'. I think anyway.

Shadow Lodge

Vic Wertz wrote:
I have to say, I'm always stunned by anti-Rose sentiment. To me, she's the best companion EVER, and by a wide, wide margin.

I'll list reasons I dislike Rose...

1. She keeps getting thrown in our faces. Throughout series 3, the Doctor makes a point to frequently unfavorably compare Martha to her. Throughout series 4, she appears in a cameo every few episodes. But they can't leave it with Turn Left, where she served some sort of vague purpose. They have to bring her in for the series finale, where she does absolutely nothing of consequence.

2. The Doctor makes exceptions for her. The Ninth Doctor dumps Adam off rather ruthlessly for daring to want to use a bit of information from the future to improve his life. But in the VERY NEXT EPISODE, Rose alters the timeline, nearly destroying a large section of space-time in the vicinity of Earth. Her punishment? She has to promise not to do it again.

3. Doctor Ten acts like a utter twit in her presence. With people dying all around them, what is Rose and the Doctor's primary concern? Saving the innocent? Nope, sorry, it's getting the queen to say "We are not amused."

4. He continually yammers on about how amazing she is, etc. But all we have is his exposition. We don't ever actually see her doing anything amazing. She's nowhere near the smartest companion he's ever had, nor the most capable. She's not the most physically capable, or the best looking. At best, she's remarkably average.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Um, the Doctor was in love with Rose, in case you missed it.

That's why he gushes over her and makes excuses for her.

And as for her being nothing special, just an average person, that's the whole reason the Doctor is so enamored with humans in the first place.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Kthulu,

Speaking as a 'Rose doesn't suck, but is overrated' fan.

1) Rose was supposed to be compared to Martha. That's Martha's entire character point. She's the anti-Rose (and to some extent, the anti-Sarah Jane). She's intelligent, professionally trained (Sarah was a journalist) and never fit in. She was Nyssa, and Adric, and Liz Shaw...

2) The Doctor is VERY inconsistent in how he treats his companions. The ninth Doctor didn't like Adam, but the 5th Doctor kept Turlough who was trying to kill him. The 9th Doctor also was more wounded than the 10th, so Rose's actions made sense to him (Remember, fixing things so her dad could live (which seemed to be a 'fixed point' to me, but that was forgotten later) was his first plan.

3) Yes, he acts the utter twit. At the same time, lets not forget the 3rd Doctor looking forward to the next conflict with the Master, despite all the death he caused, or the 4th Doctor's manipulation of Leela, or the 7th Doctor's manipulation of Ace in his last season. Also look at how the 10th doctor acts towards Sarah.

4) I'll agree with you there. I think if Doctor Who hadn't ended in the 80's, Ace's development would have been similar (though she's an explosive genius) Most of the previous companions had the same purpose, exposition. In a way though it really does make the Doctor 'not nice' He saves the 'little people' as a side effect, but will decide who the 'little people' are if he can.

Doctor: It's a Grue!
Companion: What's a Grue?
Doctor: Well a grue is...

Aside, this is why Jack, Romana, to some extent Nyssa and Turlough 'fall down' on the companion job. Exposition with them makes less sense, as they're more knowlegable than the average human.

Doctor: Oh no, it's a Dalek.
Jack: yeah, we're in trouble...
<viewers are left wondering why a pepper pot is so dangerous>


Hi all,

Question...

I have NEVER watched a full Dr Who episode (and don't know a lot about the series as a whole).

Somehow, life keeps getting in the way... Every time I sit down, something comes up. It's like a curse. No kidding.

So I caught parts of Waters of Mars, and was obviously confused about some of this stuff. But I really liked what little I saw (and understood).

If I would like to buy the DVDs, where should I start?

Thanks!

Patrick


Xuttah wrote:
The new Doctor looks like a potato. >:P

Be careful, you may have to eat those words.


Geronimo?

Oy.

Dark Archive

The brief bit that we saw with MS seemed promising. I noticed that he seemed to have DT's rythem and vocal inflection down. I would love to see a return to the wise Doctor motif, particularly in relation to the revelations in The End of Time. Since we now know that
A) The Time Lords are not dead, and
B) The Doctor locked them away because they were trying to destroy the universe,
It seems impossible to continue the era of the Doctor feeling sorry for himself for being the last of the Timelords.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

bullonir wrote:

Hi all,

Question...

If I would like to buy the DVDs, where should I start?

Thanks!

Patrick

Patrick,

Welcome to the wonder that is Doctor Who! :D

I'd start with the re-boot (what they are calling Season 1). The 9th Doctor Christopher Eccleston.
I am not sure that you would get as much out of the Original Series and honestly trying to watch all of them may become tedious if you are only a new fan, but this Season at least gives a little bit of ackstory to the Character for you to jump in at.
Since there are so far only 4.5 Seasons it will be relatively simple to catch up to the current Series (5) about to start later this year.

Liberty's Edge

Invader Smee wrote:
Xuttah wrote:
The new Doctor looks like a potato. >:P
Be careful, you may have to eat those words.

Actually, it may be an attempt to reach out to the couch potato demographic. :)


Xuttah wrote:
The new Doctor looks like a potato. >:P

I'm pretty sure I spotted him in uniform waving a sword of some description around at one point in the 2010 season preview, which seems to suggest at least occasional action sequences.

Liberty's Edge

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

I'm pretty sure I spotted him in uniform waving a sword of some description around at one point in the 2010 season preview, which seems to suggest at least occasional action sequences.

Cry havoc, and let slip the potatoes of war! :)

Action scenes would be nice though.


Watcher wrote:
I agree with Erik (not to be a sycophant). After having been warned about the last 15 minutes, I didn't find to be as unpalatable as it had been described.

Yeah, it wasn't bad... it just seemed forced. In other regenerations, the idea was he'd hallucinate about previous companions, which worked out better than this pointless victory lap.

Quote:
In many ways, RTD has set everything up so that Moffatt can do whatever he wants with the program. It has been reset in such a way that it can go off in a new direction, but retain these five seasons as canon. At the same time, RTD has also given fans some closure. We don't have to wonder whatever happened to certain companions... or if the Doctor ever thought of them ever again. We know.

Even then, I don't think we've seen the last of some of the characters:

Rose is gone. Moffat probably won't be using her again, and while I liked the character, good riddance -- as another poster said, she had become an overused Mary Sue for Davies.
Martha and Mickey (and since I haven't gotten around to watching Torchwood -- I really have to -- I did NOT see that coming...)also probably not, though they're certainly available if he wants to bring them in.
Donna and Wilf: Perhaps, maybe every once in a while Wilf might pop up to give the new Doc some grandfatherly advice.
Sarah Jane: Very possible, as Lis Sladen has her spinoff going on and we've seen how the Beeb loves crossovers, and the fans still love Sarah Jane ;)
Captain Jack: It is absolutely only a matter of time before he shows up again -- not only does John Barrowman have the same thing going for him as Lis Sladen in terms of opportunity, still being part of the extended Who production cast, he also has a lot of Wolverine Publicity to burn.
The Ood/Ood Sigma: I think they've fulfilled their story purpose, but they might come back.
Jenny: Why haven't they brought her back yet? Really? I hope she gets some screentime in the next season.

Quote:
The one thing I liked about School Reunion was it was the first time we ever saw the Doctor held emotionally accountable for his actions. I don't actually hold the character responsible so much as the writers and producers, but the classic Doctors (especially Tom Baker) used to pick people up and drop them off without much of an emotional exchange at all. Bye!

Actually, I thought there was a pretty touching goodbye scene with Tom Baker and Lis Sladen -- they were actually allowed to write their own dialogue for the scene, and again one a few years later when Tegan left the TARDIS ("Brave heart, Tegan".). But yeah, in the main, it was pretty much "see ya!"

But I think, especially with Sarah Jane and the Third/Fourth Doctors, a major reason for the Doctor picking up companions and abruptly dropping them off is that he did not want to get emotionally attached -- he viscerally feared it, though for all the right reasons... The Doc pretty much gave that away in School Reunion, subtly implying that he had fallen in love with Sarah back then, but did not want to put either of them through the emotional turmoil of having to watch her age, decay and die while he remained in the prime of his lives -- he felt it would be supremely unfair and unintentionally emotionally cruel to her. Back then, he didn't know how to broach the subject (and in a meta-show sense, back then the writers really couldn't broach that plot point) so used his summons to Gallifrey and the fact that non-Time Lords were at that point banned from being on-planet as an excuse. It was a bit of moral cowardice on his part, but nobody said the Doctor couldn't have feet of clay. He was much more explicit on both points to Rose as well, indeed "giving away" his half-human clone to her so that Rose would have a Doctor whom she could grow old together with.

Quote:
I can see the frustration with Rose, being that she's had her final goodbye several dozen times now. I suppose one more didn't bug me as much as I thought it would. However now she has had her triple deluxe final goodbye and that should be it.

Amen. Like I said, I liked the character Rose, but she's been overused. More Deuses have been pulled ex Machina to get her back to our universe than the suspension of disbelief can tolerate. And as another poster mentioned, even when she wasn't in an episode, she ended up being almost a physically present character anyway because RTD wouldn't let The Doctor shut up about her... Sigh. It's just time to let Billie Piper spread her wings and have success on Secret Diary of a Call Girl.

All in all, I liked this final episode, though there were things that bugged me about it -- the pacing could have been better, as if RTD was trying to shoehorn everything in and yet still leave enough time to bring the plot to a screeching halt for 15 minutes for the victory lap sequence. I also hoped to see a bit more of the Time Lords -- perhaps even a sequence with the Doctor back on Gallifrey one last time in a duel to the death with either The Master or Rassilon.

Also it torked me off that we still had no real explanation of the ultimate noodle incident -- how the Doctor destroyed the Daleks and Time Lords, ending the Time War and also his regeneration from 8 to 9. I was hoping we'd finally get at least a verbal description of what exactly he did, if not actually bringing Paul McGann and Chris Eccleston back for one last hurrah.

But the acting was spot on -- as with part one, this Master scared the daylights out of me, because he was so unpredicatable -- unlike other Masters who were varying degrees of chessmaster, this ressurected Master really was randomness and madness personified. Wilf and the Doctor were able to get some very touching scenes (and I really do hope that we'll get to see Bernard Cribbins at least one last time at some point in the new season) -- the scene in which Wilf is begging the Doctor to take his gun and kill the Master is particularly effective, and performed by two seasoned masters -- and the Doctor's meltdown when he finally realized what "he shall knock four times" actually meant and regarded it as a cosmic kick in the crotch was beautifully executed. This episode really did transcend the "cheese factor" that sometimes gets into Doctor Who by dinto of the cast putting out A-level effort.

And of course, "Worst! Rescue! Ever!" is a hilarious line. :D


Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Xuttah wrote:
The new Doctor looks like a potato. >:P

I'm pretty sure I spotted him in uniform waving a sword of some description around at one point in the 2010 season preview, which seems to suggest at least occasional action sequences.

In the preview, he is seen punching out one guy and later on smashing a Dalek with a mallet (being the second person after Ace to dare going up against a Dalek with a melee weapon :) )


flash_cxxi wrote:
bullonir wrote:

Hi all,

Question...

If I would like to buy the DVDs, where should I start?

Thanks!

Patrick

Patrick,

Welcome to the wonder that is Doctor Who! :D

I'd start with the re-boot (what they are calling Season 1). The 9th Doctor Christopher Eccleston.
I am not sure that you would get as much out of the Original Series and honestly trying to watch all of them may become tedious if you are only a new fan, but this Season at least gives a little bit of ackstory to the Character for you to jump in at.
Since there are so far only 4.5 Seasons it will be relatively simple to catch up to the current Series (5) about to start later this year.

Actually, I would suggest a story from the old series as well --

"Genesis of the Daleks" which RTD has said was the first salvo in the Time War.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Pat Payne wrote:


Actually, I would suggest a story from the old series as well --

"Genesis of the Daleks" which RTD has said was the first salvo in the Time War.

I don't know if starting with Genesis is essential until The Stolen Earth. I just watched Stolen Earth on BBCA again this weekend. I love Sarah Jane facing off against Davros. She's not the scared little reporter she was then.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Pat Payne wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Xuttah wrote:
The new Doctor looks like a potato. >:P

I'm pretty sure I spotted him in uniform waving a sword of some description around at one point in the 2010 season preview, which seems to suggest at least occasional action sequences.

In the preview, he is seen punching out one guy and later on smashing a Dalek with a mallet (being the second person after Ace to dare going up against a Dalek with a melee weapon :) )

There's also a brief shot of him holding a pistol...


I was not impressed with the whole "Master is everyone" climax or with the frankly silly "let's fight off the entire world's missiles" sequence. I am also at a loss to explain how Timothy Dalton's character is still alive, considering what the chap with the same name is said to have done millions of years ago.

As I said to my friend whilst we were watching it, if this had been fan-fiction rather than being filmed, it would have been written off as ridiculously silly.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Pat Payne wrote:
And of course, "Worst! Rescue! Ever!" is a hilarious line. :D

It's probably just me, but I wondered if that wasn't an in-joke reference to the terrible "THE TWO DOCTORS," in which the brilliant Patrick Troughton spends most of one episode strapped to a gurney.

God, I hated that episode!

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Arakhor wrote:

I was not impressed with the whole "Master is everyone" climax or with the frankly silly "let's fight off the entire world's missiles" sequence. I am also at a loss to explain how Timothy Dalton's character is still alive, considering what the chap with the same name is said to have done millions of years ago.

As I said to my friend whilst we were watching it, if this had been fan-fiction rather than being filmed, it would have been written off as ridiculously silly.

My take on this is that the Time Lords became so desperate in the final days of the Time War that they recruited Rassilon, their greatest tyrant, to lead them in their final march.

Thought it was pretty interesting.

I know that the internet is buzzing that the older woman who appeared throughout the two-parter was the Doctor's mother, but I'm hoping that's a red herring and that it turns out to be Romana. The "I was lost, too, a long time ago" reference is particularly telling.

Though it's interesting that the Doctor looked at Donna thoughtfully when Wilf asked him directly who she was. I'm thinking that Donna has retained more of her Time Lord DNA than the show has let on, and that we have not seen the last of the Doctor/Donna by a long shot.

Just not that interested to learn about the Doctor's mother, I guess. Who cares?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32

Erik Mona wrote:


Though it's interesting that the Doctor looked at Donna thoughtfully when Wilf asked him directly who she was. I'm thinking that Donna has retained more of her Time Lord DNA than the show has let on, and that we have not seen the last of the Doctor/Donna by a long shot.

I suspect this is how they'll get around the regeneration limit for the Doctor, something involving Donna's buried Doctorness.

Dark Archive

Pat Payne wrote:

And of course, "Worst! Rescue! Ever!" is a hilarious line. :D

Best line I have heard in a long time.

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