What happened to the Archmage prestige class and why was it not put into the core book? It seems like such an iconic concept to have excluded. Was it intellectual property like the beholder and displacer beast or some such thing?
It's called a wizard. Really that was the point, a high level wizard is an archmage, they may put some of the powers out as feats at some point but removed the PRC
I'm sad. I took Archmage for 1 level for one reason that made the class well worth the prerequisite feats... Elemental Mastery.
"Yeah, I cast a Sonic Fireball... followed up by a Quickened Acid Scorching Ray".
Sweet buttery lovin'...
What happened to the Archmage prestige class and why was it not put into the core book? It seems like such an iconic concept to have excluded. Was it intellectual property like the beholder and displacer beast or some such thing?
IIRC, the reason was that any high level arcane caster could call themselves an archmage, so the PrC was not needed.
It's called a wizard. Really that was the point, a high level wizard is an archmage, they may put some of the powers out as feats at some point but removed the PRC
Where might I find said feats then?
I'm sad. I took Archmage for 1 level for one reason that made the class well worth the prerequisite feats... Elemental Mastery.
"Yeah, I cast a Sonic Fireball... followed up by a Quickened Acid Scorching Ray".
Sweet buttery lovin'...
I liked that as well, it sounds like a good addition to the Advanced Player's Guide in the form of a metamagic feat.
It's called a wizard. Really that was the point, a high level wizard is an archmage, they may put some of the powers out as feats at some point but removed the PRCWhere might I find said feats then?
The feats have not been made yet. It is just a thought right now. I think many of the 3.5 feats simulated the archmage's abilities. Which ones are you trying to copy?
Director of Brand Strategy
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It's called a wizard. Really that was the point, a high level wizard is an archmage, they may put some of the powers out as feats at some point but removed the PRCWhere might I find said feats then?
To date, no such feats exist. Remember that there have been no PFRPG rulebooks since the Core Book and Bestiary came out earlier this year. The first time I think we'll see a new "core" feat chain will be the Advanced Player's Guide next August. That said, the original Archmage PrC (and all associated abilities) are OGC and can thus be updated by anyone and released in a different PFRPG-compaitble supplement.
Until that point, I would suggest converting all the Archmage-specific abilities to feats with pre-reqs that keep them at about the same level as a Wizard could get them in 3.5. Since PFRPG grants a feat every other level, you should be able to get all the Archamage abilities while still progressing in your chosen school powers. That means you still get the level 20 capstone ability, which wouldn't make much sense to forego in order to be an Archmage, which is supposedly the pinnacle of arcane might.
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Creative Director
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I strongly suspect that a lot of the Archmage and Hierophant powers are gonna return to the game in one form or another as feats or alternate class abilities or something of the sort in the Advanced Player's Guide. But the prestige classes themsevles are no longer really necessary since their main purpose for being created in the first place was to make playing a high level spellcaster more exciting than "just more spells." The Pathfinder rules fixed that problem by making the base classes interesting at high level, therefor making these two prestige classes unnecessary as prestige classes.
But as I've said, the powers and abilities granted by those prestige classes are certainly NOT unnecessary... they'll just manifest in different ways in the APG.
*Really hope Elemental Mastery is one of them*
Maybe a Feat tree like "Elemental Specialization" requiring the ability to cast 5th or 6th level spells that allows you to choose one elemental energy type (excluding sonic) that you can convert any spell with an elemental descriptor to, then "Elemental Mastery" which has one or two Elemental Specialization feats to take and allows you to substitute any element for elemental spells, including sonic.
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I strongly suspect that a lot of the Archmage and Hierophant powers are gonna return to the game in one form or another as feats or alternate class abilities or something of the sort in the Advanced Player's Guide. But the prestige classes themsevles are no longer really necessary since their main purpose for being created in the first place was to make playing a high level spellcaster more exciting than "just more spells." The Pathfinder rules fixed that problem by making the base classes interesting at high level, therefor making these two prestige classes unnecessary as prestige classes.
Amen to that.
+1It's now cool to play a wizard 20 or sorcerer 20... thanks Paizo!
There is a difference between saying you are an archmage and actually being and Archmage.
an =/= and...
like that? ;)
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There is a difference between saying you are an archmage and actually being and Archmage.
All that Archmage means is "really good mage". There was never any more or less difference in that meaning.
If you want to be an Archmage, all you have to be is a really good mage. The prestige class was just a few interesting options and a semantics nightmare for those that wish to use the original definition.<insert random rantings>
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All that Archmage means is "really good mage". There was never any more or less difference in that meaning.
So that cleric is an Archmage? That druid? The UMD rogue?
Any of those three could be a "really good mage."
There is a difference between saying you are an archmage and actually being and Archmage.an =/= and...
like that? ;)
Sucks that I don't know what that means...
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All that Archmage means is "really good mage". There was never any more or less difference in that meaning.So that cleric is an Archmage? That druid? The UMD rogue?
Any of those three could be a "really good mage."
<snip>
I think that mage has the arcane connotation, but I see your point about clerics/druids. The UMD rogue doesn't actually do magic themselves, they just use items, which hardly makes them a mage.
The point I was trying to make is that the Archmage prestige class was just supposed to be a representation of being a powerful magician, and anything else that represents that archetype is just as deserving of the title.Considering the names are just for the purposes of discussing mechanics (having little to do with how characters talk when roleplaying), I don't see the need for having a class/prestige class called "Archmage" to feel like you're filling that niche.
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Considering the names are just for the purposes of discussing mechanics (having little to do with how characters talk when roleplaying), I don't see the need for having a class/prestige class called "Archmage" to feel like you're filling that niche.
Then, by expanding on the above quote, we don't need: Dragon Disciple, Eldritch Knight, or Arcane Trickster.
Or any other prestige class reaaly, and no other classes than "mage", "thief", and "warrior".
EDIT: Sorry if I seem rude and/or offensive. I'm tired.
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Considering the names are just for the purposes of discussing mechanics (having little to do with how characters talk when roleplaying), I don't see the need for having a class/prestige class called "Archmage" to feel like you're filling that niche.Then, by expanding on the above quote, we don't need: Dragon Disciple, Eldritch Knight, or Arcane Trickster.
Or any other prestige class reaaly, and no other classes than "mage", "thief", and "warrior".
EDIT: Sorry if I seem rude and/or offensive. I'm tired.
If it were possible to do every configuration through feats alone, then that would be true. The point that was made earlier in this thread is that the abilities from the Archmage class of 3.5ed are better rendered through feats of various forms since the entire reason for its creation was to make a caster less "blah" at high levels, a problem pathfinder solved already.
Anyway, I'm not trying to say I don't want to do be able to do the things that the Archmage of 3.5ed did, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be called "Archmage" since that's just a general term for "really good mage."
Basically: If you want to be able to do something with your character, and you can, who cares what you call it or how you get it, as long as it's within the rules (whether core or house rules). Flavor can change at the drop of a hot, rules are harder. That's my opinion on the situation, anyway.
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The hierophant is the divine version of the archmage and filled the same high-level role in 3.5. I imagine their abilities will be pulled out into a feat tree as well.
@StabbittyDoom
Sound's like we need a cool feat tree... though I'd like the word "Archmage" to be in the name...
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Zombie Rose of Putridness.Sound's like we need a cool feat tree... though I'd like the word "Archmage" to be in the name...What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.
*sniff* Yup, still smells like a rose. :)
Note: I'm not trying to make fun of ya or anything, but I'm also tired and hold very little stock in the importance of names. An arbitrary label is an arbitrary label no matter how ya look at it :) *passes out*|
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*sniff* Yup, still smells like a rose. :)
Note: I'm not trying to make fun of ya or anything, but I'm also tired and hold very little stock in the importance of names. An arbitrary label is an arbitrary label no matter how ya look at it :) *passes out*
It's okay. To me though, names mean a bit more(it's that whole True Name thing in mythology). *Attempts to stay awake*
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And honestly, I'd like to see archmage and hierophant RETURN to being a title, like "king" or "general" or "guildmaster." It's too "generic" a word, in my opinion, to be stuck on a prestige class.
So we stick "generic" names on NPC classes!
King = Noble
General = Warrior
Guildmaster = Expert
I wonder if perhaps I should stop now? ;)
And honestly, I'd like to see archmage and hierophant RETURN to being a title, like "king" or "general" or "guildmaster." It's too "generic" a word, in my opinion, to be stuck on a prestige class.
Man, you are up late every night....
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And honestly, I'd like to see archmage and hierophant RETURN to being a title, like "king" or "general" or "guildmaster." It's too "generic" a word, in my opinion, to be stuck on a prestige class.Man, you are up late every night....
Makes you wonder how he has the energy to work from...
*starts making list of possible ways*
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I am olde skewl, so I consider a wizard of 18th level or higher an archmage. Bigby and Mordenkainen didn't need no stinking multiclassing.
But then I am starting to get the feeling that I am old. :)
I'd say something, but then I'm old too. I'm still trying to figure out at what level I gain the title Old Geezer as I'm hoping I can retire before I get there.
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And honestly, I'd like to see archmage and hierophant RETURN to being a title, like "king" or "general" or "guildmaster." It's too "generic" a word, in my opinion, to be stuck on a prestige class.Man, you are up late every night....
It's only just after Midnight there. Besides I thought I read somewhere where Paizo contracts only allow for 1 hour of sleep.
I believe this is a photo of their office.
[threadjack]
It's only just after Midnight there. Besides I thought I read somewhere where Paizo contracts only allow for 1 hour of sleep.
So, midnight in Seattle is 9 o´clock am (MET) in Central Europe. Somehow, I never get those time zones right.
[/threadjack]Otherwise, I agress that Archmage, Hierophant, General and other titels have too strong associated mental images to them to be left out of the game. If you can bring them back into the game without a PrC for every concept, that much better IMO. Feats and alternate class features should be sufficient for that.
For me, an Archmage is a wizard capable of casting the mightiest spells, Wish being the true hallmark of an Archmage. Does anyone remember the Mayfair Games/ Role Aids box "Archmagic" (for AD&D1 or 2)? It had some magic in it less flexible than wish, but within its purview, more powerful than wish - some truly earth-shaking magics, similar to the idea of epic spells in the epic-level handbook.
Stefan
It's late. No one is watching. I vote we 'jack this thread and ride it till the wheels come off.
Where in Central Europe are you?
It's late. No one is watching. I vote we 'jack this thread and ride it till the wheels come off.
Where in Central Europe are you?
Sorry, just came back to this thread after several hour (had to work, y´know?). I´m in Hildesheim, Germany (north Central Europe, should that clarification be needed...)
Stefan
I am reiterating previous comments from previous threads but it can't be said enough:
Thank sweet baby Cthulu for Paizo NOT making prestige classes that just make characters better overall. Prestige classes should be balanced in play, not better than single-classed characters.
You want high magic feats? YOU CAN'T HANDLE HIGH MAGIC FEATS!
Oh, no, wait, that was the truth. Sorry.
Here you go:
[HIGH MAGIC] FEATS
High Magic feats bestow abilities that only the most powerful spellcasters are capable of using. These feats are only available to characters that can cast spells of at least 7th level.
BLAST INFIDEL [HIGH MAGIC]
You are adept at channelling negative energy.
Prerequisites: Channel Negative Energy.
Benefits: If you channel negative energy or use an inflict spell, you deal the maximum amount of damage possible if the target's alignment is opposed to yours, or they follow a deity that is a direct enemy to your patron deity. Those healed by negative energy, like undead, are healed the maximum amount of HP possible if the they have the same alignment or patron deity as you.
FAITH HEALING [HIGH MAGIC]
You are adept at channelling positive energy.
Prerequisites: Channel Positive Energy.
Benefits: If you channel energy or use a cure spell, you heal the maximum amount of HP possible if the target has the same alignment or patron deity as you. Those harmed by positive energy, like undead, are dealt the maximum amount of damage if their alignment is opposed to yours, or they follow a deity that is a direct enemy to your patron deity.
HIGH MAGIC FIRE [HIGH MAGIC]
You are able to channel magical energy into eldritch fire, manifesting it as a bolt of raw magical energy.
Prerequisites: Able to cast an evocation spell of at least 7th level.
Benefit: You can convert spells into a bolt of raw magical energy as a supernatural ability that takes a standard action to use. The bolt is a ranged touch attack with long range (400 feet + 40 feet/caster level) that deals 1d6 points per 4 caster levels, plus 1d6 per spell level of the spell you convert into high magic fire.
HIGH MAGIC REACH [HIGH MAGIC]
You are able to use touch spells at a distance.
Prerequisites: Able to cast at least three different touch spells, one of which must be at least 5th level.
Benefit: You can use spells with a range of touch as a ranged touch on a target up to 30 feet away. If you have a caster level of at least 17, this increases to 60 feet. This is a supernatural ability.
MASTERY OF COUNTERSPELLING [HIGH MAGIC]
You are adept at disrupting spells and turning them back upon the caster.
Prerequisites: Improved Counterspell, able to cast greater dispel magic and spell turning.
Benefit: When you counterspell a spell, it is turned back upon the caster as if it were fully affected by a spell turning spell. If the spell cannot be affected by spell turning, then it is merely counterspelled.
MASTERY OF SHAPING [HIGH MAGIC]
You can alter the shapes your area spells take.
Prerequisites: Widen Spell, able to cast at least three area or effect spells that use one of these shapes: burst, cone, cylinder, emanation, or spread. One these spells must be at least 7th level.
Benefits: You can alter spells with the above-mentioned shapes. The alteration consists of creating spaces within the spell’s area or effect that are not subject to the spell. The minimum dimension for these spaces is a 5-foot cube. Furthermore, any shapable spells have a minimum dimension of 5 feet instead of 10 feet.
But as I've said, the powers and abilities granted by those prestige classes are certainly NOT unnecessary...
Odd - I've always thought of the powers and abilities granted by those classes as Completely unnecessary.
I am olde skewl, so I consider a wizard of 18th level or higher an archmage. Bigby and Mordenkainen didn't need no stinking multiclassing.
But then I am starting to get the feeling that I am old. :)
I'm not (that) old, and I'm right there with you. 18th level Archmages, with their 9th level spells. Mage = 16th.
Magic Resistance is based off that level anyways.
No, it is not. It is based off the average d20 roll.
We're talking old school here Herr KaeYoss.
And if I remember correctly, defeating Magic Resistance was a % roll, not a d20.
We're talking old school here Herr KaeYoss.
Then you should use the Vergangenheit Zeitform. Or Plusquamperfekt even, because we're talking old.
I shall report your blatant misuse of language to the Ministry. Expect an Order of the Rack Pain Tactician on your doorstep to chastise you.
We're talking old school here Herr KaeYoss.Then you should use the Vergangenheit Zeitform. Or Plusquamperfekt even, because we're talking old.
I shall report your blatant misuse of language to the Ministry. Expect an Order of the Rack Pain Tactician on your doorstep to chastise you.
Oh, and I just spoke to the Master of Revisions: As of this morning's Revision, the spell is, and has always been, based on the Perfect Number Eleven. To say anything else is High Treason.