Benn Roe
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I've been play-testing a summoner in a home game, and I have the following thoughts.
1) We've been house-ruling the class to keep the modified "one spell-like summons at a time" errata, but not the rounds/level, full-round action errata, and it really isn't unbalancing. I think the limitation on number of summons is really important because the class suffers from being a little cumbersome if you're allowed too many creatures to control (not to mention frustrating for the other players who want their turns). I think the other changes to this ability, however, hurt the class's niche too much. I realize the eidolon is the focus of the class and the summoning is a bonus, but it does strike me that the out-of-combat summoning potential is much greater with minutes/level. As far as I know, no other summoning options in the game will let you do any real summoning with a duration of more than a couple of minutes, which means its pretty much limited to combat or summon-and-immediately-exploit-summoned-creature's-spells applications. The summoner, pre-errata, could use monsters to make sure complex time-consuming dangers were safe for the PCs, or use monsters to distract NPCs while the PCs snuck in through the back door, or whathaveyou. And with standard action casting time, the summoner could stay mobile while filling up the room, another feat not otherwise possible in the game unless you want to use Quicken Spell to make your 1st-level summons take up a 5th-level spell slot. These were cool abilities for the class not because they upped the power-level terribly significantly (because honestly, they didn't), but because nobody else is capable of handling summoning like this. They made the summoner really feel like a summoner. If you want to summon, this is the class that should give you the most options and be the best at doing it. If power-level still seems like an issue, maybe you could have the option of casting as a full-round action and getting minutes/level, or casting as a standard action and getting rounds/level. The two benefits don't need to be simultaneous.
2) In the spirit of being the best summoner there is, maybe Summon Nature's Ally could be added to its repertoire, at least to the spell list, if not to the spell-like ability? I really think a class called summoner should be the absolute be-all, end-all class for summoning.
3) This one might step on some treacherous legal ground, but functional reprints of Wraithstrike and Nerveskitter should find their way onto the summoner's spell list. More than any other class that exists so far, this class has the potential to be an arcane warrior. Spells like those, and any great short-range teleportation spells Paizo can come up with (like Benign Transposition, Knight's Move, etc.) would make fantastic additions to an already really good spell list. It isn't the only use for the class, and it isn't the best version of an arcane warrior that should be possible, but it would be great to further nurture the possibility to play the summoner like this.
4) The eidolon seems abusable, though I honestly don't think your average eidolon is going to be game-breaking in any way. I think it would be wise to continue to write in restrictions that might prevent certain evolutions from being too abusive with one another, but I think the eidolon's basic framework is just right.
5) The "drops all equipment" errata seems really sloppy. I'd almost rather just see a ban on an eidolon's usage of equipment than have to deal with carrying all my eidolon's stuff every time it gets sent back to its home plane. There's got to be a better way to add meaningful costs to an eidolon's item usage (besides the very real monetary costs of providing equipment for yourself and your pet).
Of all the new classes, I think this one was closest to being totally right coming out of the gates. There should probably be a few additional safeguards on the eidolon to prevent power gamers from exploiting too many loop-holes, and I think the one-summons-at-a-time errata is perfect, but otherwise this class is really fun to play and has a variety of cool and interesting mechanics that make it by far the most unique of all the new classes. I love that it completely has its own thing going on, without really borrowing much from any existing class, stepping on anybody's toes, or feeling like it doesn't have a home in your average adventuring party. Great work, Paizo! Please don't change too much about this incredibly, surprisingly sweet class!
| Kjob |
As far as the "summoner being the best summoner" idea, I think he already is there. You are summoning the Eidolon, which, frankly, is pretty BA. As written, although it is similar to an animal companion in its progression..it is actually quite different. Im sure this isnt even the most overpower combination, but a lvl 1 Eidolon Quadruped with 4 claw attacks, a bite attack, and pounce is pretty insane, and mind you these are all primary attacks and will be made at full attack bonus. An animal companion does not even hold a torch that, in my opinion.
The ability to summon monster, is really secondary to the ability to call your Eidolon. Personally, I like the current rules where it is similar tot he spell. The only change I'd like is maybe adding +2 to the rounds the summons last (similar to a conjurer) just so it is a little more forgiving on lvl 1-3 summoners. There is no need to steal SNA from a druid, let them have that as, really, the natural realm belongs to the druid! I guess it comes down to a flavor thing for me; when a mage summons something, they're bending some extraplanar creature to their will via magic. When a druid summons something, they are calling upon nature to help them...
| j r 266 |
The summoner is scary at any level. The eidolon its self can be as powerful as the party fighter especially with the summoner backing it up and the summoner isn't a slouch either especially with its spell list and abilities. Its like if a bard and a fighter teamed up in one character.
To me, the increase to Summon Durations doesn't make the Summoner any more powerful in combat. It simply allows him to get greater utility out of his summoned beasties, which makes sense, given that he's, you know, a summoner and all.
| Fraust |
I would be cool with there being a sentence or two which gave you a free extend spell feat for your summon monster spell like ability. Something like you can cast the highest level summon monster spell so many times per day, or cast the next lowest for double the duration, or the next lowest after that and have it last all day.
Also, I really like your summon nature's ally idea. I would tack it on with the SM spell like ability, letting you select which one you want to cast with each use. I wouldn't put it on the list of spells knowable, as each spell you know is a very important resource, being that your a spontaneous caster.
I disslike the drops all equipment too. Personally I think eidolons shouldn't be able to use magical equipment. I can go along with them having access to magical weapons, but I would much prefer this be represented with evolutions.
| Kolokotroni |
Wouldn't the claw attacks would all be secondaries, even with Pounce?:
"An eidolon has a pair of vicious claws at the end of its limbs, giving it two claw attacks. These attacks are secondary attacks...."
I brought this up early in the playtest, Jason said it was an error. Claws are primary attacks.