According to the SRD, an assassin vine has no Intelligence score. I have a 'villain' concept based on an intelligent, subterranian, colossal, advanced, fiendish-or-half-fiendish assassin vine, but the advanced template can't improve the Intelligence score of a character that doesn't have one to begin with, and awaken only affects animals and trees.
It does not appear that the fiendish or half-fiendish templates help either. Does anyone have any ideas about a legit way (preferably within the bounds of Pathfinder core) to give an unintelligent creature an Intelligence score?
you could always have it Awakened
EDIT: Oops ..missed your objection there. Never mind
Further Edit: I'm not sure, but the wording is a bit vague on the spell: One one hand it does say tree, but then it says plant in another section. It also says that the awakened plant gains mobility of vines and creepers, not really tree-like objects ...
Further Edit: I'm not sure, but the wording is a bit vague on the spell: One one hand it does say tree, but then it says plant in another section. It also says that the awakened plant gains mobility of vines and creepers, not really tree-like objects ...
I noticed that, but the 'awaken a tree' portion of the spell description seems clearly designed to affect a plant with no preexisting Int, Wis, or Cha scores (it says the plant's scores are "each 3d6", as if it had no such scores previously, which a tree wouldn't).
Yeah that's a stumper. Perhaps one of the designers will chime in. Otherwise I'd just fudge it and say Awaken works on an assasin vine. But that's me, I never let a vague rule stand in the way of a good time :)
Well, I'm not entirely sure how golem crafting works in pathfinder, but in 3.5 it was the spirit of an earth elemental bound into a body. It wouldn't be hard to wrangle that someone bound an intelligent spirit into an assassin vine. You could also go the undead route, and infuse the vine with negative energy (possibly from what it ate) giving it undead sentience.
Just ideas.
I generally don't like 'because the DM said so' answers at my table, so awaken or 'just give it an Intelligence score' won't cut it. If players can't use a spell a specific way, neither can NPCs or monsters.
It's actually that 'PCs use different rules than the rest of the world' attitude (among other things) that turned us off of 4th edition. I'm looking for a way to accomplish this legitimately.
For now, wish sounds most plausable. Or there might be another monster I should be considering for the base creature. I'll have to look into other plant-monsters.
If players can't use a spell a specific way, neither can NPCs or monsters.
You mean you never suprise your players with monsters not in the bestiary? Building a new monster is the prerogative of the DM. Just call it "intelligent hellish vine". You are not using a rule in a way the PCs are not able to do, you are creating a monster - it's not a NPC doing it, it's the game master - and you are entitled to do it - just follow the rules to determine a proper CR.
One introduced it is part of the world and the PCs can use it (summon it, cultivate a whole garden of it, take one as a pet if they wish, etc.)
There is a lot of differences, I think, between misusing the rules in the advantage of NPCs and using the monster-building rules (basically, according a proper CR to a new build) in order to surprise your players...
I hope this doesn't make me come across as a Nay-sayer... though perhaps since I'm saying Aye instead, maybe I'm an Aye-Sayer or maybe a Reverse-Nay-Sayer.
It isn't "just because I say so," if you come up with a reasonable, well-thought idea for how it works. You can say it's a variant species brought over accidentially from a portal to the Green Planet by clinging spores or seeds, different from the home grown Assassin Vine chiefly by having a sort of herbal brain-power. You could say it was an ordinary Assassin Vine mutated into terrible sapience by overlong exposure to a heavy magical field. You could say that a daemon, demon, or devil was punished for its failures by being bound into the fibres of a bloodthirsty plant and it only just recently began to lever control over its prison. As long as you come up with a decent explanation for it, you're likely to have players lauding your clever idea and memorable villain, not digging at you because there's no make-vine-smart spell they can cast.
I guess I'm trying to say the rules are there to help you with a framework, not to lash and bind you to it. The Paizo people make stuff up all the time when there isn't an existing OGL rule, spell, or monster that fits what they need. That's why the Pathfinder Bestiary has Linnorms they created. The fact that they're a company doesn't give them any special authorization to do so above individual DM/GM worldbuilders like yourself.
All that aside, I'm sure you can find a template somewhere that'd do the job you needed. The Paizo folks have an abiding fondness for the template-masters of the Advanced Bestiary (still available as a PDF from RPGNow.)
According to the SRD, an assassin vine has no Intelligence score. I have a 'villain' concept based on an intelligent, subterranian, colossal, advanced, fiendish-or-half-fiendish assassin vine, but the advanced template can't improve the Intelligence score of a character that doesn't have one to begin with, and awaken only affects animals and trees.
It does not appear that the fiendish or half-fiendish templates help either. Does anyone have any ideas about a legit way (preferably within the bounds of Pathfinder core) to give an unintelligent creature an Intelligence score?
If I may?
***
A thousand years ago, a group of priests found a spring of magical waters flowing from the craggy face of Mount Blanc. Anyone who drank from the waters would find their minds clear, their wits sharp, and their thoughts turned to enlightened, peaceful pursuits. The priests built a shrine to Er'gosum, God of Knowledge, around the spring, and set themselves to dedicating the lands around the spring to peaceful pursuits. They built a Library, and called to all members of their order to come to the Temple Of The Spring and populate it with learning and the pursuit of Knowledge in its purest form.
The temple was a place of beauty. All things nurtured by the waters of the spring showed an unusual clarity - the colors of the flowers that grew at its banks were brighter than those growing a mere hundred yards away. Birds that bathed within it sang as though enchanted by the Gods themselves. Animals that drank from it showed unusual cunning and an almost human understanding of their environs. At night, the grass that grew around the spring would sway and whisper, although no breeze stirred it. It was a thing of beauty, and the priests guarded and nurtured it for decades.
But such things do not set well with all who learn of them, and in time, many grew jealous of the magical waters of the spring. Although the priests never barred any from drinking from the water, so too did they impose a price upon all who would come seeking to gain its boon - for as long as the effects of the spring lasted, the pilgrim must spend twice as long in service to the priesthood. A simple price, but looked on by jealous and fearful powers as the beginnings of a slave trade ruled by the "wisdom mongers" of the followers of Er'gosum.
And so the conflict came that destroyed the temple. Lost to time, now, the legends speak of the vast stores of knowledge accrued by the temple as containing spells and invocations both Heavenly and Hellish. The tales speak of Archons and Fiends both taking to the mortal world, and of the doors to the World After being opened as easily and frequently as one might open a jug of wine.
No one knows what happened to that spring. The temple, surely, is still there, to this day. But the spring itself was sundered, sunk, and covered by the ruin of the temple. The ground from which it rose now barren and cursed, rumors do persist that it must have come from the fabled River Below, that first spawned the Dwarves and their ilk. Other stories tell of a great lake, the well-source of the spring, that resides in the ancient caverns of a long-forgotten civilization. Surrounded by ruins, some say, creatures that have subsisted on nothing but the flesh of their own kin and the waters of this lake even now plot against the bright, beautiful world above them.
The truth, however, remains to be seen.
***
There you go. Origin story. The water grants a bonus to intelligence, the Assassin Vine has been "drinking" from it for centuries, and as a plant, it gains nutrients from anything it can get its creepers into. So, as it's absorbed its victims as food, and soaked up the water of the spring, it's become more and more Audrey and less and less Kreeping Kudzu.
If you want it to be "rules bound," I say make the water have a magical enhancement ability, such as one might find in the spell "Fox's Cunning" - and have the vine simply have been exposed to it long enough for the effects to have become permanent. Then, apply your templates as you wish, and give it an increase to its INT score based on how intelligent it needs to be in order to do the villainy you wish it to do. Heck, you could even have it animate its various (recent) victims with vines or spores, if you wanted, giving it puppets through which to communicate.
Hope this helps! :D
gary gygax's original rule books stated that the rule books them selves were just guide books. use your creativity, and make it. these are some great ideas posted here. use one of them.
the whole, if the players cant do it then the npcs cant do it is one of the deeply ingrained inherant problems with 3.x, and is very counter what gary gygax called d&d.
but, its your game. run it the way your players and you want it ran.
Not pathfinder core, but green ronin's advanced beastiary has a template that lets you amalgamate any two monsters, so you would just need something to combine with your assassin vine.
Alternately, is their some way to give a treant some sort of vines?
The assassin vine has a good wisdom and a charism stat. If I'm not mistaken the vine is an aggressive ambush predator. Giving it a animal Int of 1 or 2 would not be game breaking. Well no more so than it being fiendish and colossal. You are a sick monkey...I'm impressed.
I had a idea about a baneful polymorphed monk trapped as a chicken. If you make the will save you keep your mind. I am also a sick monkey.
Ernie the chicken...Hee hee. It's wrong but funny as hell to explain that it's in the rules.
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Using 3.5 rules instead of Pathfinder, the Fiendish template would raise Intelligence to 'a minimum of 3,' which would be all the leeway you need to raise it's Intelligence to a suitable number above three. Hellvines are apparently much cleverer than normal vines. :)
IMO, the 'quick and easy' Pathfinder templates for Celestial and Fiendish creatures are probably best done away with, in favor of the 3.5 versions, where the Celestial creature become good, at least mildly intelligent, and could comprehend spoken Celestial. Too many house rules are required for Conjuration if those templates no longer confer intelligence, language comprehension and alignment (such as the funny situation where a Celestial Dog can not use Smite Evil on a Fiendish Hyena, because the Hyena-from-Hell isn't technically *evil*).
Too much pruning, in this case, and some important stuff got left on the cutting room floor. Use the 3.5 Fiendish template and avoid these sorts of problems.
According to the SRD, an assassin vine has no Intelligence score. I have a 'villain' concept based on an intelligent, subterranian, colossal, advanced, fiendish-or-half-fiendish assassin vine, but the advanced template can't improve the Intelligence score of a character that doesn't have one to begin with, and awaken only affects animals and trees.
It does not appear that the fiendish or half-fiendish templates help either. Does anyone have any ideas about a legit way (preferably within the bounds of Pathfinder core) to give an unintelligent creature an Intelligence score?
While I completely understand your reservations about using the "Awaken" spell because it isn't specificially a tree, I think you might be being too strict on yourself. One, what about places that don't have trees? A druid who comes from a place like that would probably have a spell suited to the environment they are in (underdark would have mushrooms maybe, underseas would have coral for another possibility) or out of luck for anything resembling that spell effect. Two, it is as close as you can get for what you want in the actual rules. And honestly it isn't even that much of a stretch, in my eyes you are entirely in the realm if intent even if you are fudging the RAW a little.
At worst I still believe that creatures of all sorts get an additional +1 to place on an attribute of their choice every 4 HD/levels (I don't have books with me to look it up) no? Once it is advanced enough you could just pop that +1 to INT and call it a day I guess.
If I may?
Beautiful backstory, but the problem with using a fox's cunning-type effect is that ability bonuses don't apply to creatures that don't have the score to be improved... and if the players can't use fox's cunning on their consrcuts, I'm not using it on my plants.
the whole, if the players cant do it then the npcs cant do it is one of the deeply ingrained inherant problems with 3.x, and is very counter what gary gygax called d&d.
No disrespect to the dead, but if I had to choose between playing the game that Gary Gygax called D&D or quitting the hobby, I'd be quitting the hobby.
While I completely understand your reservations about using the "Awaken" spell because it isn't specificially a tree, I think you might be being too strict on yourself.
The tricky bit is that I don't want my players pulling the same trick, and also the method for generating mental ability scores for plants assumes that the plants have no ability scores already, and thus doesn't quite work for the assassin vine.
At worst I still believe that creatures of all sorts get an additional +1 to place on an attribute of their choice every 4 HD/levels (I don't have books with me to look it up) no? Once it is advanced enough you could just pop that +1 to INT and call it a day I guess.
Unfortunately, you can't increase a nonability score with this method.
Sounds like wish will have to be the answer, but that's alright. It's not a bad solution, I was just hoping for an easier one.
Beautiful backstory, but the problem with using a fox's cunning-type effect is that ability bonuses don't apply to creatures that don't have the score to be improved... and if the players can't use fox's cunning on their consrcuts, I'm not using it on my plants.
Thanks. You should see what I can do when I'm getting paid. Or writing for Mekton or Cyberpunk. But that's not important right now.
My point was that you can create this here "Magical Spring" and say "The plant has soaked up all the water from the Spring, and fouled it so that it's now only a plot device, rather than something that the PC's can use once they've defeated the vine. The Spring used to make the grasses of the temple whisper and murmur at night, so in a similar fashion, a thousand years of exposure have made the vine intelligent."
I appreciate you wanting to be fair to your players, but there's nothing written that says that they have to have access to the same sorts of things that made the vine intelligent in the first place. The goal of the backstory that I tossed out there was to say, hey, there was this Magical Place Of Power (tm) around this place long ago, and it Did Things To Other Things (tm) that can no longer be replicated because it is an Artifact From Times Long Gone (pat pend). The mention of Fox's Cunning was merely that: An example, a mention. Something with which to compare, in terms the players could understand. Does the Spring actually confer that spell? Of course not. But it's a spell they can understand, and use to compare to their frame of reference.
I hope this makes sense. I'm typing this between issues at work. ;)
The tricky bit is that I don't want my players pulling the same trick, and also the method for generating mental ability scores for plants assumes that the plants have no ability scores already, and thus doesn't quite work for the assassin vine.
While I completely understand your reservations about using the "Awaken" spell because it isn't specificially a tree, I think you might be being too strict on yourself.
I have to agree with Skylancer4, here. I find myself concerned about you being more concerned with the letter, and not the spirit, of the rules. You are completely within your rights as the GM to say, as I mentioned above, that the Vine got its intelligence through a method that simply can't be replicated any more. Perhaps an angry and bitter Demigod cursed that spot, and the Vine grew upon it with a "Malignant Spirit" developing in it as a result of the curse. Perhaps someone misspoke during a summoning ritual a thousand miles away, and this is the unintended consequence. Your options are almost truly limitless, here.
Like I said, I am really happy about your desire to be completely fair to your players. I try to be fair (if firm) as well, and I've frequently found myself saying "Hey, if I don't let the PC's do this, the NPC's can't, either," but if I find that I have good call to bend or break that rule, I will do so in the hopes that it improves the overall story and feel of the game.
Ultimately, it's your game, and you'll do as you need to do, though. However you get there, I hope you tell us how the Vine works as a villain. ;)
According to the SRD, an assassin vine has no Intelligence score. I have a 'villain' concept based on an intelligent, subterranian, colossal, advanced, fiendish-or-half-fiendish assassin vine, but the advanced template can't improve the Intelligence score of a character that doesn't have one to begin with, and awaken only affects animals and trees.
It does not appear that the fiendish or half-fiendish templates help either. Does anyone have any ideas about a legit way (preferably within the bounds of Pathfinder core) to give an unintelligent creature an Intelligence score?
Taking a differnt tack, how about restyling the "Mother of All" from the Savage Tide adventure path. Lots of intelligent villainous plant chock full of assassin vine and vine horror goodness (badness?) for your slaying pleasure. And her Int score is already 12! You can add other templates to her as well if you like, I guess and advances to 30HD Gargantuan.
She can be found in "Sea Wyvern's Wake", December 2006 issue of Dungeon magazine #141
Jemstone has the most sane posts in this thread.
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First of all - my opinion is, when it helps to tell a good story, change whatever you want! If just giving the assassine vine an INT score creates a great experience for your players, youre players will thank you for doing it.
But anyway, I remembered a AD&D FR product, and after searching for almost 1 hour, I found it in my basement. Maybe this helps, its from the Forgotten Realms LORDS OF DARKNESS (REF5 9240) game accessory. I hope its ok to post this here, if not, I'll delete it asap!
Remember, these are AD&D 2E stats... not pathfinderised.
Maybe this helps...
fiendish-or-half-fiendish assassin vine
This is a curious omission, but in 3.5 a fiendish creature has the stats of the base creature except that its intelligence becomes at least 3.
I think this would have solved your problem in 3.5, but since PF left it out, you'll have to resort to more "fluff-centric" methods.
It's an intentional omission. Just being a native of an aligned plane shouldn't automatically grant sentience.
It's an intentional omission. Just being a native of an aligned plane shouldn't automatically grant sentience.
I believe it was intentional but not because of that reasoning. It's just unnecessary complication for something that needs to be applied quickly. A native of an evil-aligned plane is not necessarily fiendish -- fiendish is its own special property with special rules. In PF, they just decided to reduce the rules.
They also omitted the part about vermin/animals being converted to magical beasts. They also omitted the part about fiendish creatures being extraplanar, which can possibly be important -- but in the case of summoned monsters, unnecessary.
Also, you can have fiendish constructs and undead -- notably excluded in 3.5.
isnt pathfinder supposed to be backwards compatible?
there is an encounter in curse of the crimson throne where the queen kills the captain of the guard. i guess it caused some sort of uproar, becasue the queen didnt have a stat block. just killed him, without a statblock. how is that possible?
its the story.
I'll chip in an idea or two. Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary, pgs. 115-116 provides a template for a Flesh Plant. Under the modifications to ability scores, it mentions, "If the base creature lacks an Intelligence score, the flesh plant gains an Intelligence score of 1." From there, you should be able to tweak it further.
You could also throw a Half-Plant template (Advanced Bestiary, pg. 146) on a creature that already has lots of tentacles to have it fulfill a similar role. That way, you get to keep the Intelligence score of the base creature, rather than a plant.
Lastly, why an Assassin Vine? You could probably get away with a Giant Flytrap (Bestiary, pg. 134) or even a Shambling Mound (Bestiary, pg. 246) and modify it by adding extra limbs or tentacles similar to an Assassin Vine. The Giant Flytrap already comes with an Intelligence of 1 and the Shambling Mound has an Intelligence of 7.
Seems like those could offer a decent (and potentially easier) solution for you. Just say that some arcane horticulure expert experimented by splicing an Assassin Vine with another plant creature and go from there.
My two-cents,
--Neil
Ok well if you really want to stay exactly within the letter of the rules, how about just using a shambling mound as the base creature, it's also viny and it has int 7. So if you made it giant and advanced or added tsome hit dice than made in half fiendish it should do the job. Not to mention be hideuosly scary. Also cool idea from you and from jemstone. So i will be "borrowing" some of these ideas for my own campaign thanks guys and i hope my suggestion helps.
--snipping most of a brilliant and flavorful post and fixating on this line--
The tales speak of Archons and Fiends both taking to the mortal world, and of the doors to the World After being opened as easily and frequently as one might open a jug of wine.
NECROMANCER: Dagblastit! This amulet's supposed to open the doors of the World After as easily as you might open a jug of wine!
WIZARD: What's the problem?
NECROMANCER: I've never been very good with corkscrews!
BARD: Allow me! I have great experience with the devices. You just twist this bit, pull, these bits, and... Oh Hell...
SORCERESS: What? Why aren't the doors of the World After opening?
BARD: Well, um, the witch's amulet is suppose to open the doors "as easily as you might open a jug of wine." Do you know how often you can have a cork break off?
NECROMANCER: No, but I expect you do....
Hmmm... let's see.....are you the DM?
While I want to remind FH that it's "GM" now (;-P), I otherwise agree to him.
You can do whatever you want. While it might result in Code Reds if you abuse that power, stuff like this is harmless.
If you still need to justify this to yourself (wuss), call it a strangler vine. Their stats look remarkably like an assassin vine's, except that they have an intelligence score.
The assassin vine is possessed, via malevolence, by the ghost of one of its first victims.
:D
Just put his Int at whatever you want.
You have reservations about "well I'm the Dm and i said so" and that makes sense.. but the real issue here isn't that.
The correct answer when they ask how it happened is that.. they do not know.
They, in fact, do not know. They need never, ever know. The PC's do not know nor should they know the ultimate creation point of every creature that they come across.
When you see an ant on the ground do you know what queen spawned it and where she is today? Probably not.
And I do not mean to sound snarky or condescending. People ask why and how all the time. Part of your job as DM though is to keep the game world as realistically mysterious as is our actual world.
"what class was he"
"How did that do that"
"How is that creature made"
and etc. are all questions that while they can ask it- the PC's need never actually find out the answer.
"You do not know" is a wonderfully realistic answer to a great many questions that the PC's have. Sometimes the PC's just.. don't know the answer.
-S
They, in fact, do not know. They need never, ever know. The PC's do not know nor should they know the ultimate creation point of every creature that they come across...When you see an ant on the ground do you know what queen spawned it and where she is today? Probably not.
And this here, is a GM's second best friend...A great world is built on mystery, a great scene is painted with omissions. Often, the less they know, the better. Unless their characters somehow have a way to determine what, where, who and how this monster was created, then they need never know. Keep them guessing, ruin there assumptions, break the mold, and invent new things. Keep them on there toes, and always leave something more to be revealed...
(just some thoughts...)
A very creative NPC created the spell "Awaken Assassin Vine," cast it on the creature in question, and went about their merry way, all the while dreaming of what great havoc this new spell will mean for adventurers the world over.
A giant anvil then promtly fell upon this unamed NPC, snapping the poor wretch's neck. Really, it was the NPC's fault for being unamed.
But this smart plant now roams the world. Killing things like all good assassin vines do, but now it can ponder "Why?".
--snipping most of a brilliant and flavorful post and fixating on this line--
The tales speak of Archons and Fiends both taking to the mortal world, and of the doors to the World After being opened as easily and frequently as one might open a jug of wine.NECROMANCER: Dagblastit! This amulet's supposed to open the doors of the World After as easily as you might open a jug of wine!
WIZARD: What's the problem?
NECROMANCER: I've never been very good with corkscrews!
BARD: Allow me! I have great experience with the devices. You just twist this bit, pull, these bits, and... Oh Hell...
SORCERESS: What? Why aren't the doors of the World After opening?
BARD: Well, um, the witch's amulet is suppose to open the doors "as easily as you might open a jug of wine." Do you know how often you can have a cork break off?
NECROMANCER: No, but I expect you do....
Heh.
Of course, all proper wine jugs of a Pseudo Middle Era European world are stoppered with clay plugs, don't you know?
Clearly that Bard is from some other game world! ;)
Heh.
Of course, all proper wine jugs of a Pseudo Middle Era European world are stoppered with clay plugs, don't you know?
Clearly that Bard is from some other game world! ;)
Now you make me go do research....
http://www.corkfacts.com/contpges/histmain.htm
Short answer: Not so anachronistic as you might think. It's technology that's been lost and rediscovered.
Of course in a fantasy world, you have to deal with troubles like druids Awakening the cork oaks....
Heh.
Of course, all proper wine jugs of a Pseudo Middle Era European world are stoppered with clay plugs, don't you know?
Clearly that Bard is from some other game world! ;)
Now you make me go do research....
http://www.corkfacts.com/contpges/histmain.htm
Short answer: Not so anachronistic as you might think. It's technology that's been lost and rediscovered.
Oh, I knew, I was just being silly. It's what I do when I'm knee deep in work stress and posting on a forum to blow off steam: I get absurd. ;)
Of course in a fantasy world, you have to deal with troubles like druids Awakening the cork oaks....
Which, of course, brings us right back to the original topic of the thread. Well played, sir!
Speaking of... While I support Rake's decision to be Fair and Even in regards to "if I won't let my players do it, I shouldn't do it, either," I am still of the opinion that ascribing the Intelligent Assassin Vine to the realm of Things Man And Player Characters Were Never Meant To Know (TM) is the best option. The PC's can't do it because it is a fluke, or a circumstantial event, not necessarily a game-book defined item that would be otherwise available. But I suppose we'll have to wait for him to come back and weigh in.
An intelligent assassin vine is easily accomplished with spells straight out of the core rulebook.
It's already been mentioned that Awaken should do the job except the sticking point that it says "tree" and an assassin vine is a vine and not a tree.
Then again, a palm tree is technically not a tree either--it's technically a large member of the grass family. And banana trees are technically herbs.
But even with the most stringent of interpretations of Awaken where it can't Awaken plants that don't fit an extremely limited view of what a "tree" is, there's another spell that can be used: Limited Wish.
Limited Wish can let a wizard not only duplicate a druid's Awaken spell (a "non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower) to the letter but also has a bit more elastic in its metaphysics, to wit: "Produce any other effect whose power is in line with the above effects."
Even though there is no "Awaken Vine, Bush, Mushroom, Kelp or other vegetation" spell, a GM would be hard pressed to say that this would be more than a 5th level druid spell. So if the wizard wants to blow a Limited Wish to get a talking rosebush, then he can blow a Limited Wish to get a talking rosebush. And the twinkish evil wizard who thinks this would be even more useful if cast on an assassin vine can do that too.
Or the GM can dig in his heels, in which case Wish will definitely work, since there's no way making a talking rosebush is more than an 8th level druid spell. Or the player can just use Polymorph Any Object to turn the assassin vine into a maple tree, Awaken the maple tree, then use Dispel Magic to turn the maple back into an assassin vine that's still Awakened.
Of course personally all I'd do is say that the intelligent assassin vine is simply a different species, or else say that any assassin vine that lives a couple hundred years develops intelligence and the stupid ones statted up in the Bestiary are just the immature specimens.
And if a druid player wants a talking rosebush, he could probably do a workaround via Awaken and Craft Wondrous Item to make some magic fertilizer, since wondrous items can have slightly different effects than the spells that went into them.
Though I'd personally just let him use Awaken on a rosebush or assassin vine and have done with it, rather than letting a sarcastic player then decide to Awaken a baobab or an entire aspen grove (which is technically one plant, due to a shared root network and clonal reproduction) because I'm being anal-retentive an insisting on the word "tree."
(snip many good talking points for sake of brevity)
Of course personally all I'd do is say that the intelligent assassin vine is simply a different species, or else say that any assassin vine that lives a couple hundred years develops intelligence and the stupid ones statted up in the Bestiary are just the immature specimens.
And if a druid player wants a talking rosebush, he could probably do a...
Ok, the fact that you pointed out the Aspen grove leads me to wonder about a Sentient, Surly, Strawberry colony, as Strawberries also reproduce via clonal methods (all them viney runners)...
Oh, man. I'm sure I couldn't swing it in my D&D/Pathfinder game, because it's a bit too "low magic" for that... but my Star Wars game...
"No, don't eat that plant! It's swirling with Dark Side energy!"
*Berry Bush zaps the Wookie with Force Lightning*
...
On the other hand... That may be just a bit too silly.