Contributor
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Is there anywhere info about the origin of the gnomes, the First World or the realm of feys? Atm I just know the stuff which is in the CG. Is there more written down anywhere? thanks for your help.
There is an entry on the First World (where Gnomes and other fey come from), in The Great Beyond on pages 51-52. It's not much, but it's the largest entry I've seen on the topic outside of the Gazetteer and the Campaign Setting hardcover.
I think we can expect a little more information once the RPG Superstar 2009 module hits the streets, but I get the feeling that the First World is going to stay one of the myserious elements of Pathfinder that probably won't be "fully developed" in a supplement of its own.
It's looking like there'll be a fair amount of info coming out about the First World in 2009. Until then, "The Great Beyond" is pretty much the most up-to-date resource for the First World; there's a half page or so of info in there about it, if I remember correctly.
The First World (and the PF gnomes) are one of Golarion's concepts that I really find fascinating. Would be awesome to expand on it more, or see how others expand on it (looking forward to that fey-themed module in the next year or so!).
As for info in The Great Beyond, while I don't have the pdf at hand to check the final version, the monster writeup for the Lurker in the Light has some details on the fey of the First World as well.
The First World (and the PF gnomes) are one of Golarion's concepts that I really find fascinating. Would be awesome to expand on it more, or see how others expand on it (looking forward to that fey-themed module in the next year or so!).
Me too. :-)
Ah, neat! the PF gnomes came from the First World... the FR elves came from Faerie... where did the PF elves come from? :)
I checked Elves of Golarion (a player friendly book the Companion series). The earliest origins are shrouded in myth that the elven society can't quite seem to seperate from truth.
But lacking any further clarity, they look to be native Golarion... barring anything further being said.
At one point they did flee to another world, but I don't see that as their origin point.
Now, I haven't thoroughly read the Second Darkness AP, that might have further details.
Creative Director
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Ah, neat! the PF gnomes came from the First World... the FR elves came from Faerie... where did the PF elves come from? :)
We haven't said, officially, where the elves first came from. They certainly COULD be natives of Golarion... but they have the ability to move back and forth between planets via their elf gates. Personally, and if I have my way, elves are from another planet. Perhaps one in the Golarion system, or perhaps from some other more distant region. Whatever their source, they've been on Golarion long enough now (certainly for far further back than our current timeline goes) that they're basically Golarion natives even IF they were originally aliens.
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Whatever their source, they've been on Golarion long enough now (certainly for far further back than our current timeline goes) that they're basically Golarion natives even IF they were originally aliens.
Ah, the people under the hill, with their slender limbs and big eyes, responsible for people vanishing and coming back with strange gaps in their memory years later, mysterious lights at night and elf-shooting (and then mutilating!) cattle.
It's no wonder they call them gray elves.
Whatever their source, they've been on Golarion long enough now (certainly for far further back than our current timeline goes) that they're basically Golarion natives even IF they were originally aliens.Ah, the people under the hill, with their slender limbs and big eyes, responsible for people vanishing and coming back with strange gaps in their memory years later, mysterious lights at night and elf-shooting (and then mutilating!) cattle.
It's no wonder they call them gray elves.
ROFLMAO!!
Now I need to name an elf Roswell :)
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Ah, neat! the PF gnomes came from the First World... the FR elves came from Faerie... where did the PF elves come from? :)We haven't said, officially, where the elves first came from. They certainly COULD be natives of Golarion... but they have the ability to move back and forth between planets via their elf gates. Personally, and if I have my way, elves are from another planet. Perhaps one in the Golarion system, or perhaps from some other more distant region. Whatever their source, they've been on Golarion long enough now (certainly for far further back than our current timeline goes) that they're basically Golarion natives even IF they were originally aliens.
I'm really loving this concept.
This concept also dovetails nicely with the hints we get within the "Into the Black" article within Pathfinder 14... (the incomprehensible gate that will only make itself clear when the "young races" have evolved sufficiently!)
Perhaps D&D elves are exiled Vulcans, you know, those that "let their emotions get the better of them", and have been sentenced for a life with primitive barbarians so as to relearn the value of peace over violence, zen control, etc. :P
(I wish...)
:P
...you know, that *could* explain why the elfgates are not really understood anymore (the first "castaways" came fresh with warp theory and transporter knowledge, and built these portals in earnest, before the strange miasma that suffused Golarion fully erased their scientific knowledge... as they saw their children first experiment with magic... which came so easily to them due to their great intellectual heritage... which corrupted their culture into fully turning its back on science... protests by young elves in the streets "the ways of our fathers were flawed," "accepting magic is accepting nature and therefore not controlling it," "our fathers saw their home world destroyed after their love of technology and the ruthless harnessing of nature got the better of them")
Late night ramblings [OFF]
:P
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And now I wonder if the elven -2 to Constitution might be a side-effect of their otherworldly nature. Their bodies adapted over millenia (or were adapted, magically) to the environment and ecology of another world, one now closed to them, perhaps forever. Here in Golarion, their wonderful tailored resistances to their native environment is less than useless, and their bodies are less able to adapt to the harsh primitive place they've found themselves bound to, a world where the weather is not tame and long-past bound to the elven will, the seasons extreme and unforgiving, and strange 'alien' contagions fill the air.
We haven't said, officially, where the elves first came from.
I thought the thing with Sovyrian was a strong lead.
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Sovyrian could be anywhere though. My guess is that it's in a different galaxy, and that the indecipherable gate is the only thing allowing intergalaxy travel (i.e. interplanetary teleport is a 9th level spell, so intergalaxy travel would require epic magic or somekind of very powerful artifact... I keep thinking that the Cyphergate could be some kind of enormous stargate... that, and the fact that it's right above the waterline, which would allow large ships full of elves to sail into another world...)
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Creative Director
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Yeah; pretty much everything we've done with elves so far is supported, indirectly, by the notion that they're from another planet. It's a relatively major departure from the way elves have traditionally been depicted in the game, though, so we've been pretty subtle about it for now. But all the pieces are there for those who wish to embrace this backstory. And some day we'll probably come right out and say from WHICH planet elves are from... provided we don't think of a cooler backstory for them before that.
Sovyrian could be anywhere though. My guess is that it's in a different galaxy, and that the indecipherable gate is the only thing allowing intergalaxy travel (i.e. interplanetary teleport is a 9th level spell, so intergalaxy travel would require epic magic or somekind of very powerful artifact...
Not quite right: Interplanetary teleport explicitly says it has no range limitation. That means it works across planets, solar systems, galaxies.... As long as you stay on the plane, you're golden.
Doesn't mean you can just go there, though. First of all, 17+level characters aren't exatly in profusion, and those who are don't always get the spell, so we're talking about few enough travelers.
And Sovyrian doesn't have to be far to be unreachable. It could be touching Golarion at the poles - if there's magic in place to lock the place tight, you can't port there.
Or - and this is my favourite - you can go there, but you set up the alarms as soon as you go there. No one knows exactly how long teleport takes. They say it's instantaneous, but who'd notice a slight delay if you're putting a couple of gigaparsecs behind you? So you land on sovyrian in the middle of a dozen half-azata elven champions of levels 30+ who'll have enough time to prepare for your arrival so they can properly welcome you. And with welcome, I mean kill to save the homeworld.
"Trespassers will be killed by epic defenders". I need to get that sign for my yard now. Of course, I'd need a yard first. I think this is even better than the "Beware: Pitbull with AIDS" one.
I keep thinking that the Cyphergate could be some kind of enormous stargate...
It's not, though. It's a ... aaah! Almost got it out of me. Sorry, but no spoilers! :D
It's a relatively major departure from the way elves have traditionally been depicted in the game, though, so we've been pretty subtle about it for now.
Well, in the Realms, which used to be my favourite setting, they were interlopers, too. They originated from Faerie (though that might have been a different plane, though - I don't think they ever really went out and said which it was). In fact, the main continent's name - Faerûn - is a variation on Faerie the elves gave the continent to remind them of home.
So there's precedent. I'd say go for it.
provided we don't think of a cooler backstory for them before that.
"They're from the future" too cliché?
Let's say that they evolve, over countless millenia, from the gnomes. Those gnomes took to the fresh material air and started growing larger. For some reasons, their ears grew, too. And then, at some time in the guture, the Worldwound became too strong to be stopped. It broke out in other places, too, and the civilised people fought a losing war against it. In the last minute before their final bastions were overrun, the material plane was completely taken over by the Abyss - who was then too strong for everything else and devoured the rest of the planes including the Maelstrom and turned the ever after into a horrid, dark version of how it was before, the primeval chaos tainted by evil and all that - anyway, they used chronoturgy to send their best and brightest back into the distant past, before everyone else was around. The elves were able to cleanse several places of the earliest incursions of the Abyss, including Sovyrian.
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Faerie was definitely another plane (Only the moon and sun elves came from there, and they brought their elven gods with them; the green elves and dark elves were native to Faerun I think, and may have had primitive gods of their own before the sun/moon elves "enlightened" them with the Seldarine)
If Golarion elves come from the same plane, but a different galaxy or planet, that would be a first methinks...
If Golarion elves come from the same plane, but a different galaxy or planet, that would be a first methinks...
That specific case, yes.
But it's still along the same lines: "elves are from elsewhere".
But we already have the gnomes coming from the First World, so the elves need their own idea.
I also say go for a different planet!
Is it a 4e development that FR elves are from Faerie or was it like that in previous editions too? I used to be quite a scholar of Realmslore, but those days are several years behind me, however I didn't really remember elves being from anywhere besides Toril.
Is it a 4e development that FR elves are from Faerie or was it like that in previous editions too? I used to be quite a scholar of Realmslore, but those days are several years behind me, however I didn't really remember elves being from anywhere besides Toril.
The FR elves originally came to Toril from the planet of Faerie, which despite the name was on the prime material plane, and had no connection to the fey plane/demiplane of Faerie. I don't have a clue how/if WotC has retconned that in 4e, since I've pretty much dropped FR at this point given what it has become in 4e.
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Is it a 4e development that FR elves are from Faerie or was it like that in previous editions too? I used to be quite a scholar of Realmslore, but those days are several years behind me, however I didn't really remember elves being from anywhere besides Toril.The FR elves originally came to Toril from the planet of Faerie, which despite the name was on the prime material plane, and had no connection to the fey plane/demiplane of Faerie. I don't have a clue how/if WotC has retconned that in 4e, since I've pretty much dropped FR at this point given what it has become in 4e.
I did not know Faerie was on the same prime... cool! (Evermeet: Island of the Elves by Elaine Cunningham shows their arrival to Toril, but I don't recall there being a mention of the same plane/prime... in the novel, I think they refer to it as "another world" simply, but I could be wrong... it's been YEARS since I read it, and I guess things may have been solidified in later gaming products)
Just curious: which publication discussed same prime vs. alternate prime or other dimension? (I probably own it... :P)
I did not know Faerie was on the same prime... cool! (Evermeet: Island of the Elves by Elaine Cunningham shows their arrival to Toril, but I don't recall there being a mention of the same plane/prime... in the novel, I think they refer to it as "another world" simply, but I could be wrong... it's been YEARS since I read it, and I guess things may have been solidified in later gaming products)
Just curious: which publication discussed same prime vs. alternate prime or other dimension? (I probably own it... :P)
There was only one prime material plane during the 2e period (not sure if this was addressed within FR lore during 1e at all), with the elven Faerie being some distant planet that was never really detailed in specific, while during 3e this was at times played down, or at times the lore bounced back and forth like a child in need of ritalin where it concerned the material plane being that of 2e/Planescape/Spelljammer or 3e that tried to avoid the issue when possible for whatever reason. ;)
The FR elves originally came to Toril from the planet of Faerie, which despite the name was on the prime material plane, and had no connection to the fey plane/demiplane of Faerie. I don't have a clue how/if WotC has retconned that in 4e, since I've pretty much dropped FR at this point given what it has become in 4e.
I haven't ever read anything about Faerie being explicitly called a planet (or plane, or alternate Material, or bus stob). Have any sources for that one?
I always thought it was one of the few mysteries the Realms did have.
And in 4e, they don't retcon. They tear apart so the shreds fit the rules better.
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Spelljammer (yeah, yeah, I know) had elves being native to a distant and secretive home world – planet – somewhere. As far as I know, it was never detailed where the planet was located or what it was called, the elves never let outsiders know about it.
Yeah, that's the official party line, anyway.
Get an elf drunk enough (and with a -2 Con modifier, they are notorous lightweights), and you'll hear some more interesting variations on the 'ancient home of the elves.'
1) "And then we realized we didn't know how to get back..."
2) "And then they kicked us out and told us never to come back..."
3) "And since there was nothing left but a plague-ravaged smoking cinder..."
Get an elf drunk enough (and with a -2 Con modifier, they are notorous lightweights)
Elves don't get drunk from alcohol. Not in 2e, when spelljammer still existed :P