I've been reading over them, they seem like great ways to provide incentive to playing a sorcerer. I was wondering, however, if any one bloodline has seemed overpowered or underpowered in the games that anyone else has played? I haven't yet, and i was wondering how they played in actual tests.
I found the bloodlines that give claw attacks seems under powered compared to the others. The claws while cool and neat to have actually don't get used because it's too dang hard to hit anything with them. The dragon bloodline at least has the Dragon Disciple Prc that give a boost to strength and a slightly better base attack bonus but even that didn't seem to help much.
I've been reading over them, they seem like great ways to provide incentive to playing a sorcerer. I was wondering, however, if any one bloodline has seemed overpowered or underpowered in the games that anyone else has played? I haven't yet, and i was wondering how they played in actual tests.I found the bloodlines that give claw attacks seems under powered compared to the others. The claws while cool and neat to have actually don't get used because it's too dang hard to hit anything with them. The dragon bloodline at least has the Dragon Disciple Prc that give a boost to strength and a slightly better base attack bonus but even that didn't seem to help much.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
And yet, those claws are an irresistable lure to a certain kind of player. Like moths to a flame.
And it costs them, if they go pure Sorcerer.
Now, if your goal is to make a dual class, say, monk/sorcerer with claws, grab a few levels of duskblade to pump your spells into your claws, and focus primarily on defensive buffs and melee touch attacks, then those claw bloodlines might just be the crowning touch to make this whole thing pay off.
My two cents: Most of the various melee abilities (claws, bonus to Str, corrupting touch/grave touch) are of limited use to most sorcerers, IMO. But there are some powerful abilities available:
- Arcane bloodline School Power (+2 to DCs for one school, stacks with Spell Focus)
- Arcane bloodline's Arcane Apotheosis (power any charged item indefinitely with third level spell slots!)
- Fey bloodline's Laughing Touch (nauseate target for one round, no save, no SR)
- Fey bloodline's Fey Magic (reroll SR checks at will)
YMMV.
The clawed bloodlines aren't as bad as everyone has made them seem so far.
They do NOT play to a Sorcerer's strengths though, and that is why they seem underpowered. If you have an "artillerist" spellcaster already, a clawed bloodline Sorcerer can be a respectable melee combatant.
But if the clawed bloodline Sorcerer is the only arcane caster, they will feel underwhelming for sure.
The clawed bloodlines aren't as bad as everyone has made them seem so far.
They do NOT play to a Sorcerer's strengths though, and that is why they seem underpowered. If you have an "artillerist" spellcaster already, a clawed bloodline Sorcerer can be a respectable melee combatant.
But if the clawed bloodline Sorcerer is the only arcane caster, they will feel underwhelming for sure.
That sounds like "limited use" to me.
That sounds like "limited use" to me.The clawed bloodlines aren't as bad as everyone has made them seem so far.
They do NOT play to a Sorcerer's strengths though, and that is why they seem underpowered. If you have an "artillerist" spellcaster already, a clawed bloodline Sorcerer can be a respectable melee combatant.
But if the clawed bloodline Sorcerer is the only arcane caster, they will feel underwhelming for sure.
Really depends on the game.
If the DM maximises the challenge every single encounter, then yes. But if the encounters follow a more organic style, then a claw based Sorcerer as the only arcanist can do quite well.
Reading the draconic bloodline, I wanted to make a fighter sorcerer. (Maybe that makes me a moth.)
With just the spells from the PfPHB, it wouldn't work to well, but if spells from the Spell Compendium are allowed, it gets better. Which makes sense, since most of the spells in the PfPHB are designed for typical arcane casters, while the SC has spells for a much wider variety of casters.
There's several spells there that have a casting time of Swift, so you can buff yourself and then attack in the same round. There's also Wraithstrike, which lets you make touch attacks with melee weapons, solving the problem of your poor BAB. I think there's also one that allows ranged attacks with natural weapons.
I haven't tried it, so I don't know if it actually works or not. There is the problem of casting in armor or having poor AC. There's also a lot of attributes that need to be above average: Strength (to hit and damage), Dex (AC), Con (hit points) and Cha (spellcasting). Since your not targeting enemies, Charisma can be lower than normal.
Since your not targeting enemies, Charisma can be lower than normal.
Maybe yes, maybe no.
Your max spell level is controlled by CHA. But really, who won't have a 19 CHA by the time they are 18th level (or hit any of the other plateus along the way)?
Even if you plan to literally claw your way through countless dungeons containing endless hoards of monsters, you may find yourself wanting, from time to time, to cast some spell that allows a Save.
Occasionally.
You have more willpower than I do if you can make it all the way to epic and never use any spells that allow any kind of save.
I would venture that if you did manage that monumental feat, the loss of spellpower would be so great that your sorcerer would be mediocre at best because of it - though I cannot say this for sure.
IMO, there are just way too many excellent crowd control and SOS and SOD spells to exclude them all from an entire career of spellcasting; the spellcaster who does so is basically a limited one-trick pony.
And unfortunately with that limited BAB, low HP, weak AC, and disruptability, turning a sorcerer into a front-line melee specialist, even with the draconic bloodline, sounds like asking for lots of trouble.
Since your not targeting enemies, Charisma can be lower than normal.
Maybe yes, maybe no.Your max spell level is controlled by CHA. But really, who won't have a 19 CHA by the time they are 18th level (or hit any of the other plateus along the way)?
I was mentally picturing him as starting with a charisma of 13. He needs a +2 by 8th level, +4 by 12th and a +6 by 16th. That sounds reasonable, although I haven't compared it against the wealth tables.
Also, there's a distinct possibility I'd multiclass with fighter or go Dragon Disciple. That pushes off the need for higher charisma even further.
Even if you plan to literally claw your way through countless dungeons containing endless hoards of monsters, you may find yourself wanting, from time to time, to cast some spell that allows a Save.
Occasionally.
You have more willpower than I do if you can make it all the way to epic and never use any spells that allow any kind of save.
I'm a sorcerer. Nobody's got more will power than me except a cleric. :-) (Annoying classes with a useful casting stat.)
I would venture that if you did manage that monumental feat, the loss of spellpower would be so great that your sorcerer would be mediocre at best because of it - though I cannot say this for sure.
I'm fairly certain this isn't the world's most powerful character. It was more the concept that interested me, especially since it plays against standard stereotypes. It's also more filling the fighter role than the arcanist role.
If the GM warned us that we should build highly optimized characters, and that a TPK was likely even if we did, I wouldn't use this character. In a 5-6 person party, it could be a lot of fun to play.
IMO, there are just way too many excellent crowd control and SOS and SOD spells to exclude them all from an entire career of spellcasting; the spellcaster who does so is basically a limited one-trick pony.And unfortunately with that limited BAB, low HP, weak AC, and disruptability, turning a sorcerer into a front-line melee specialist, even with the draconic bloodline, sounds like asking for lots of trouble.
Quite possibly, he'll die a messy death at level 1 or 2. It's certainly a character built for role playing, not roll playing. Disruptability is also less of an issue, since swift spells don't provoke.
I like the idea of being an Elemental Bloodline (Air/Earth) Scorching Ray of Acid just removes one of its worst weaknesses. (namely, the fact that it deals fire damage.)
Fey also looks like a good bloodline, but other than that, nothing REALLY jumps out at me.
Don't forget you could still take the normal scorching ray for fire damage too with the elemental bloodlines.
The arcane bloodline really does have a lot going for it too, as does the aberrant IMO (especially for a flanking rogue/sorcerer type or fighter/sorcerer type).
Pitty we will only get to see one bloodline though....any bets on which one?
Well, I know that Seoni has a couple of saline elementals grafted onto her torso, so I presume we'll see stats for the Elemental bloodline.
Nah, it's Celestial.
Those are lantern archons in there, using their innate flight ability to lift and separate.
Try not to imagine how they fire their light rays.
I wonder if she gets mad when people refer to her archons as "headlights"?
Pitty we will only get to see one bloodline though....any bets on which one?
Perhaps I spend too much time in my cave, but is that official? And can you point me to the source?
Pitty we will only get to see one bloodline though....any bets on which one?Perhaps I spend too much time in my cave, but is that official? And can you point me to the source?
According to Jason B., the next preview will be one sorcerer. I doubt she'll have more than one bloodline, so we'll only get to see one.
For now.
Future previews may show us more, or may not; there have been no official announcements either way.
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Pitty we will only get to see one bloodline though....any bets on which one?Perhaps I spend too much time in my cave, but is that official? And can you point me to the source?
Blog Next week, in part 3 of our 14-week preview, we're going to take a close look at Seoni, the iconic sorcerer. And by close, I mean very close, close enough to examine her blood.
That was what I meant, unless Seoni has more than one bloodline...
Also, are they doing the iconics in order?
Ahah! Okay. I thought that was a comment on the final rules.
If it is just about the previews, it is much less worrisome to me.
I imagine they will let a little more slip at Paizocon. In any case we'll get a good idea of where they think the bloodline powers should be, even if we just see the fire elemental bloodline.
And unfortunately with that limited BAB, low HP, weak AC, and disruptability, turning a sorcerer into a front-line melee specialist, even with the draconic bloodline, sounds like asking for lots of trouble.
Which is why you take fighter/paladin/ranger/barb levels with sorcerer and head for Eldritch Knight. Take the feats to reduce Arcan spell cance failure and grab some celestial armor and your set for front line fighting. I'd take Weapon Finesse though, since that'll help both your Ac and attakc rolls. I made a pretty good 'Vampire' using barbarian levels for the bite, Undead bloodline for the vampire aspect, and Eldritch Knight to bring it all home.
One thing which might help single-class sorcerers with melee focused bloodlines is to use the Battle Sorcerer variant out of Unearthed Arcana and The d20 SRD. Doing so reduces your spellcasting options slightly, but grants you the ability to cast in light armor, and increases your HD to d8 and BAB to 3/4.
I am currently playing a Half-Elf "Swashbuckler" 1 / Battle Sorcerer 4 with an air elemental bloodline in a PF Beta/Eberron campaign, and I have little trouble mixing it up in melee with my rapier. Then again, the campaign has a definate swashbuckling adventure feel, so the other four players are likewise lightly armored, wield light weapons, and spend action points willy nilly, so my success may be atypical.
-C. Robert Brown