Not sure if or where centaurs would be in the Pathfinder setting, haven't read enough to know, but you can be sure rules for centaurs will be in their Beastery. I have a feeling that in effect the beastery will give options to use some monsters races as player races. ECL's though I think will end up being in, otherwise you'll get a very weak Centaur. For what it's worth however I'll agree that they are an iconic part of fantasy gaming, and I've always alowed them and Lizard folk, and many others as player race.
TTFN DRE
As far as where they fit into the CS, they roam the plains of Arcadia, kinda like analogues of Sioux and other plains dwelling Native Americans.
I'm sure they can be found elsewhere as well, depending on the needs of the GM or players. Heck, I have a group that ran through Conquest of Bloodsworn Vale playing all monsters. We used Savage Species progressions and we had a centaur fill the fighter role, a bralani eladrin standing in as a cleric, a pixie sorcerer, and an imp handling rogue duties. It actually worked really well and created some awesome RP.
Not sure if or where centaurs would be in the Pathfinder setting, haven't read enough to know, but you can be sure rules for centaurs will be in their Beastery. I have a feeling that in effect the beastery will give options to use some monsters races as player races. ECL's though I think will end up being in, otherwise you'll get a very weak Centaur. For what it's worth however I'll agree that they are an iconic part of fantasy gaming, and I've always alowed them and Lizard folk, and many others as player race.
TTFN DRE
Thanks for your answer. I hope the Bestiary will give out such rules as options - some people really like that kind of character. On the plus side the centaur has always been linked with the side of good and as such would be perfect as a PC race. And they had been rather prominently featured in fantasy and fantasy gaming - either as a race or as a monster.
As for ECL - I undestand your concerns but many players (including me) would love to play a centaur from the start of the campaign or adventure. I do see your concerns as valid though - I just do not like the ECL as a mechanic, period. I hope there is some away to work around it because as a mechanic it seems clunky at best.
Also I wonder how Centaurs and mounted combat/spirited charge-type feats would be treated...?
I wasn't clear, sorry my bad, I regard ECL and Racial Class levels to be very mucht the same thing, mainly because I use Racial and Paragon levels in my game, but ECL as presented in the SRD ie have to be that level or gain that xlevel points to up a level I agree with you, its a pain and almost worthless.
Looking at the Centaur as a raical class, the standared six level break down I think works well (if you can get a copy of Races of the Wild). Mounted combat as we understand it might be out, but Spirited charge can fit in as a racial feat.
One option I would use would be to give a wide rage of racial feats (mostly core feats but a rage nevertheless) to give a some options to the racial class, ie not evey Centaur is alike. This way while the Beastery may have a 'standared' Centaur, players not only get to start at 1st level, but have a few options along the way.
Tell me do you let your players multi-class in and out of Racial Classes, so that they don't have to invest X # of levels in a race if they don't want too? I tend to work that way.
TTFN DRE
I should be fairly easy to make a LA 0 centaur race. Here's a first pass.
Str +2, Wis +2, Int -2
Base land speed 30 feet (with racial feats to increase to 40?)
Darkvision 60 ft (or maybe just lowlight).
You could give them dwarven stability or just give them oversize build like goliaths or half-ogres.
Give them an ability that lets them qualify for feats as if they have mounted combat, and use those feats as if mounted.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
There are centaurs in Absalom. Just don't ask them for a lift.There are stated out centaurs or centaurs as a race in that book? Or just some history/fluff? I like both things so a combo of both would be beyond awesome.
Just fluff. Sorry to get you all excited.
If you ask me, Centaurs in D&D are a little wonky, but if you remove the racial HD, keep the ability score mods to PFRPG's +2/+2/-2, and tone down their base speed and natural armor, I don't think they are all that great. To further illustrate the point, here is my attempt at the Centaur PC race which includes some of the negative implications of their unique anatomy.
Centaur
+2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Int. Centaurs are strong and have keen senses, but their bestial nature limits their intelligence.
Monstrous Humanoid: Unlike many races, Centaurs are not humanoid in type, but Monstrous Humanoid.
Large Size: As Large size creatures, Centaurs take a -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, a -4 penalty on Stealth checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks. A Centaurs’ lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
Long: As a long creature, a Centaur’s natural reach is only 5 feet.
Speed: Centaurs have a base speed of 40 feet.
Undersize Weapons: Despite their Large size, Centaurs have upper bodies comparable in size to those of a Medium Humanoid. As a result, a Centaur wields manufactured weapons and makes unarmed strikes as if it were a Medium creature.
Unusual Shape: Centaurs combine the features of horses and humanoids and must wear specially constructed armor to accommodate their size and shape. Triple the base cost of any armor meant to be worn by a Centaur. Additionally, Centaurs cannot climb ladders, ropes, or steep inclines.
Stability: As four legged creatures, Centaurs gain a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bullrushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
Tough Hide: Centaurs have a thick hide which grants them a +2 natural armor bonus
Darkvision: Centaurs can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and centaurs can function just fine with no light at all.
Hooves: Centaurs have a pair of natural hoof attacks. Treat these as secondary attacks dealing 1d4 plus half the Centaurs’ strength modifier in damage.
Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan
Bonus Languages: Elven, Halfling, Gnome
Favored Class: Druid or Ranger
-C. Robert Brown
First of all - hello to all Paizo and Pathfinder maniacs out there! First post on these boards - a fellow RPG-er from Poland here and excited as hell about the Pathfinder RPG.
I think no one said Welcome so far.
WELCOME Zdan :-)
Always good to have fellow Europeans on the board, all these Americans post at the wrong time of the day ;-)
Welcome, Zdan.
If you ask me, Centaurs in D&D are a little wonky, but if you remove the racial HD, keep the ability score mods to PFRPG's +2/+2/-2, and tone down their base speed and natural armor, I don't think they are all that great. To further illustrate the point, here is my attempt at the Centaur PC race which includes some of the negative implications of their unique anatomy.
personally, I'd give 'em Low Light vision, since Darkvision denotes some underground or Darklands heritage (dwarfs, orcs), bump the base speed up to 50' and give em the Run feat as a racial bonus feat.
Just need to find money for my pre-order of the PFRPG.
Look under the couch cushions.
Large Size: As Large size creatures, Centaurs take a -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, a -4 penalty on Stealth checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks.
Not bad at all! Only +1 to Grapple though (and all CMB checks).
Undersize Weapons: Despite their Large size, Centaurs have upper bodies comparable in size to those of a Medium Humanoid. As a result, a Centaur wields manufactured weapons and makes unarmed strikes as if it were a Medium creature.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought about this. It always annoyed me that no exception was made regarding centaur weapons, considering their anatomy.
Of course, I'm one of the grognards that doesn't fully implement the weapon size system anyway...because it's just silly.
Good stuff in this thread -- I like the directions you guys are taking the centaur.
I will so be using ideal from this thread. I never like race HD anyhow as most of the time it does not always fit. Also I never got the whole Large weapons and broke a players heart once for making him used Human sized on with his centaur.
I'll 3rd a -2 cha in place of a -2 Int. They always were more standoffish then anything.
Do they really need to be large? It introduces all sorts of problems with having to squeeze in 5' tunnels. And those kinds of limitations are as punishing to the party as to the individual pc. I'd just keep them medium and say they are right on the edge. you can be 7 feet tall and still be medium (gnolls, half ogres, goliaths).
It's how long not tall that makes em large
I don't consider constructive criticism trouble. :-)
In any case, the unarmed attacks thing was in the off chance that someone plays a Centaur monk. Essentially, their "unarmed damage" would scale as a medium creature instead of using the alternate table for large size creatures. Essentially, a centaur wailing on someone with his hands does 1d3+strength subdual damage just like a human. So yeah, if you were really trying to hurt someone, you would probably kick with the hooves, since by default, they do lethal damage. Also, note that a horse's hooves are all equally dangerous.
As for aiming for the mythological roots of the Centaur, that wasn't really my goal with the above stats. I was just looking at the SRD Centaur, and trimming things back here and there until it seemed to be about equivalent to the Pathfinder Dwarf. Of course, while I had the SRD at my fingertips, I was working from memory with the PFRPG Dwarf, since I didn't have my .pdf at the time...thus, the CMB error. If anyone wants to make further modifications to it for use in their home games, they are free to.
Incidentally, if you use the above Centaur stats, you can pretty easily build something akin to the SRD centaur with 4 levels of fighter. Take Dodge and Weapon focus (hoof) as fighter feats, Improved Natural Attack (hoof) and Improved Natural Armor as normal feats, and have him wield a medium greatsword (Note that the SRD centaur is wielding a large longsword two-handed, which is effectively the same.)
As far as selling this, I'd prefer to avoid such entanglements. I enjoy helping people out with their D20 issues, so I don't feel the need to be compensated. That said, if you appreciate my work here, you could show your appreciation by buying Pathfinder Scenario #21, The Eternal Obelisk, when it comes out next month. :-)
-C. Robert Brown
Sorry to derail this thread slightly, but am the only one who remebers Centar from myth being scholars... why do we have to have a -2 INT?
I guess the D&D/PF centaur doesn't follow the myth too closely. In D&D, they're usually sylvan creatures, which aren't usually that much into books.
Do they really need to be large?
They're half horses. Horses are large.
But I'd suggest a medium starting centaur, anyway. After that, you have a number of racial levels you can use to turn him into the centaur as we know him, including large size.
|
They're half horses. Horses are large.
But I'd suggest a medium starting centaur, anyway. After that, you have a number of racial levels you can use to turn him into the centaur as we know him, including large size.
Or, instead of a racial level thing, it could be like the Raptoran mechanic. Once they hit 5 HD in any class, they automagically finish growing up and gain that last racial ability (flight for Raptorans, size Large for Centaurs). That way it doesn't show up at 1st level, but the character doesn't have to eat a level to gain the 'standard Centaur powers.'
3rd level would also make a decent 'growth point,' as being mostly size Large (save for weapon usage) doesn't really have the same sort of game-affect as winged flight.
|
Its an interesting thought. I do agree that I think that centaurs are very iconic in fantasy lore.
My only concern with a centaur is that they are large creatures and if you are doing a lot of dungeon crawling through 5' tunnels, that could be a bit of a challenge. The concept of them starting as medium and growing to large is an interesting one, however eventually they will grow to be large creatures. For outdoor wilderness adventures, they would rock, no doubt about it.
From the SRD: A centaur is as big as a heavy horse, but much taller and slightly heavier. A centaur is about 7 feet tall and weighs about 2,100 pounds.
If you're that concerned with size, make variant pony centaurs.
was a few centaur folks.
Drovesh=Donkey/dwarf
Gnoat=goat/Gnome
Ha'pony=Pony/Halfling
Zebranaanur=Zebra/human
Hybsil=3' antelope centaurs
|
Thanks Mairkurion.
I also stumbled upon an idea of Centaur PrC - could be called Fey Charger or Fey Knight. A centaur knight type of class taking advantage of their natural anatomy and giving abilities akin to knight abilities but with a fey/centaur bent - meaning for examples abilities with charging, movement etc. That type of class is on my mind. What do you guys think?
Heh totally built one of those based on a player who had a Centaur PC, I named it cavalrite, (the joke being that centaurs named themselves that because they think of other races on horseback as cavalwrong, bad pun I know but what are you gonna do lol)