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If y'all haven't been following the news, many print mags and newspapers are folding (pardon the word choice) as consumers obtain more and more of their information on-line. That makes me wonder: are y'all buying more of your rpgs -- whether core or supp -- as a pdf, or do you still buy the deadtree version? Or do you buy both?
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I like my print more than a pdf.
A pdf can be useful, especially to me if I am running a game and can print out the bad guys so I don't have to flip through the books as much.
I usually print out my pdf's to read too.
I'd say about 75-80% of my purchases are print. But I would probably not buy the book that is in that 20-25% category anyways because of its high price. (Thus making the pdf version more appealing to me.)
But if I really like a pdf I'll get the book version.
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The only PDFs I have:
#1: The ones I downloaded here when I had my sub
#2: Tome of Horrors, 3.5 version, as it was never offered in print.
#3: The Sean K. Reynolds PDFs (like "Hungry Little Monsters"), as some or all of the proceeds went to charity.
#4: Kobold Quarterly issues 5-8 (with the dead tree subscription)
#5: OSRIC and other retro clones available only on PDF or Lulu.
I have trouble reading off a screen for too long without getting a headache, so I generally I just use them to print out maps, handouts, or whatever I specifically need.
So, I guess the answer would be "no", qualified with "unless what I need/want is only available in that format".
i have been trying to "reduce my footprint" lately. so, i buy very few print books lately.
good: only electronic storage device needed, can copy/pace text/images into documents any way you please
bad: many pdf core books are nearly the same price as the paper copy, stabilty of electronic storage devices, need to print some documents eventually anyway
i dont personnaly have any problems with reading electronic media. it is hard to take the computer to bed and or that other place where guys read.
but, reducing my footprint is very important to me. i would like to be able to fit my whole life into one pick up load.
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The only physical RPG books I bother to buy anymore are Paizo's, and that's mostly just so I can have legal PDFs of them. If Paizo offered an Electronic-only subscription, or a "Donate the book to a hospital or the troops overseas and get the PDF for free" option, and I'd be all electronic. 1920x1200 screens make a HUGE difference IMO, even over 1680x1050.
I am becoming more and more pdf. I can print oft referenced pages (price list anyone?) and handouts are easier.
If it's significantly cheaper, I'll get the .pdf (and possibly print some or all of it out myself) instead of the print version.
I don't think it has lessened by hard copy buying habits, but PDFs have made me become more discriminating.
The more important books I get as hard copies. I am in full support of the rpg businesses, so I try not to download stuff too much. Hell, if i like a band I even buy their CD's from Best Buy! So, I try to spend a few bucks for the sake of keeping rpg companies alive and still printing. Hard copy books FTW!
P.S.- I even buy all my stuff from the local gaming store. Even if it is a few bucks more than Barnes and Noble. Because I support the entire system.
PDFs are teh suck. I'm old school; I like the look, feel, and smell of books. I do have gaming pdf files, but only things that I really wanted that just weren't available in print. Also, I don't own a laptop, so unless I print them all out or drag my PC around, pdf isn't a useful format for me.
I use to buy print core books and pdf supplements (and print out/bind the supplements so I have both a pdf and physical), but now I'm buying more print (mostly due to paizo's subscriptions). Oddly enough, the slow economy has made me buy more physical books. My job is good and promises to be stable so I feel a sense of duty to help support my FLGS more.
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I use both. I like hardcopies, but find PDFs to be pretty convenient in some case. However, here are a couple things to consider:
1) 25 years from now, an electronic copy of the 1st printing of Pathfinder 1 will not e a collector's item.
2) 25 years from now, I have no idea whether PDF will be an application-supported filetype and I don't know if the PDFs I currently have will be available in whatever the future standard is. If they are, I certainly don't want to buy an entire collection of electronic files over again because there's no way to convert. However, I am confident that, barring loss or destruction, my print copies of stuff are still going to be viable.
-Skeld
I like PDFs to get a quick preview of everything before I receive the print product. But I abhor having to study a PDF in detail.
I love the PDFs, however, for snagging graphics and maps, since lately most of my DnD playtime is online.
Same here.
No. I am totally a book gamer through and through. I like to sit in bed in the evening, since that is my creative time and have my books sprawled all over. I find trying to flip from screen to screen is just too hard, it's alot easier to pick up the books and flip the pages too. I also do alot of reading on the bus, and I prefer just to shove a book in my bag.
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No, the economy has curtailed my purchasing habits...
I'm making 3/4 of what I was last year...so go figure...
I also do both, I buy PDFs of that which won't be used a lot...but I have a large collection of books, so I like muh books...
I don't have a kindle or filament reader, so it's not convenient to lug my laptop everywhere...
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Print all the way. I WANT an actual, professionally designed and printed product ... period. And printing your PDF out and having it bound is not the same as having a printed book. Having a PDF of a book in addition to the printed product is sometimes nice, however. As others have said, it's nice to be able to print out a page or two here and there ... lately, I have gotten into printing out the handful of pages that relate directly to the race and class I am playing to keep with my character sheet for efficiency and convenience, for example. But PDFs are always a secondary consideration for me.
Would I buy a PDF only of a product? Never.
Would I be more inclined to buy a print product, like a rule book or magazine, if it came with a free copy in PDF form as a bonus? Sure, probably, but it is in no way a primary selling point for me.
Good example ... Kobold Quarterly subscribers get the high quality print magazine delivered to their mailbox and also get a copy of that issue in PDF format as a free download, if we want it. It's a nice value added extra. Would I subscribe if the magazine was only available in PDF format? Sorry, as great as Kobold Quarterly is ... no. I have no interest in PDF only. In fact, there are PDF only magazines out there that I have never even taken a look at. Would I be interested in a print only subscription if the cost went down a few bucks compared to a print plus PDF option? Probably, yes. As I say, PDFs are a nice extra but I want a real, printed item as my primary product, every time.
I spend all day staring at a computer screen for work the last thing I want to do when I get home is stare at the computer screen some more. As most people mentioned I'll use PDFs for printing key information for handouts or notes but that's about it. When the power goes out, I'd still like to be able to play.
For ease of lookup, a PDF format can't be beat. For research done clandestinely while at work, a PDF can't be beat. For front-to-back reading, dead tree can't be beat. I can't read an entire PDF all the way through, my eyes cross. For sheer eye candy dead tree editions can't be beat. This goes double for actual books.
I just wish that WotC would reissue PDFs of their 3.5E library at a resonable price point :(
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Dead Tree all the way!
I am not a big fan of .pdfs, although since Subscribing (of which I am unfortunately no longer due to stupid ecomomic crisis) I like the idea of having both a Dead Tree and .pdf version of the product.
I wouldn't exclusively buy a .pdf though unless there wasn't another option, or it would be ridiculously expensive to buy Dead Tree.
Count me in with the physical book group.
With my Pathfinder subscription I got the PDFs and to be honest I find they useful, but not very important. Before then the only PDF's I got were of books that simply had no hard copy made (such as 3 Arrows for the King which was a fantastic book). That to me is the true place for PDF's for creative first time publishers/wirters/companies.
Things I like about Physical books:
1. They are physical, they are an object that you can feel and hold, its odd I know, but you have a sort of relationship with a book. My old Robotech book, the first RPG book I ever got is old, beat up and in everyway outdated and worn yet I touch it I'm back in the summer of '87 working odd jobs to get enough to buy it and much of the rest of the line. It was with me in my back pack thoughout high school. Its a buddy.
2. I really don't know how much of a collector item game books are, but its nice to say look I got all the Pahtfinder books 1st edition. Oddly I think that physical 3.x books are going to be worth more then oldern editons because while more companies made more products the nature of the industry (I've heard correct me if I'm wrong) was/is you make a print one based on Preoders + X (usualy X=1000)
3. Kinda mixed with the first two, their is the issue of scuffling. You want the book in perfect conditon, you work hard to take care of it. But many of you know the story behind each dog ear, each cool aid stain, each massive water damaged book. Its not mint, but its yours, and its far too late to get another one. On a sader note you also know when some gamer has moved on whenever you find a whole set of books somewhere. I found 5 Rokugon books and an set of DeadLands core books at a old used books store. Books are history and memory.
Things I like about PDF's
1. As others have said, you can print out stuff that you need. However for all you guys worried about your so called "Foot Print" I should point out A. Global Warming is a complet myth, an SUV is not stronger then the sun (and now out here in CA. they are thinking of outlawing Black and/or Dark Colored cars, no joke). B. Its been my experince that a gamer waste far more paper with PDF's then they ever do with a book. And if you just make a hard copy of a book, well same to same.
2. Related to number one, by having a PDF you can back up your copy of the printed copy. Their was a point where I've considered buying my whole libary again with pdf back ups. I thought I had all the time in the world for that because PDF's will in theory be forever. Wizards ended that delusion however. I'm most mad at them for trying to pull older pdf's who had the d20 logo on their 3.5 stuff. I don't think they ever offically did that, but the scare was bad enough. Say whatever you want about 4e good or bad, that move itself actualy hurt the industry and put it into a panic. Then their is the issue addressed above about tech moving beyond what can read your PDF files. It all seems so difficulty just to keep something you love forever. If I can't keep a PDF back up, that wont get outdated, then whats the point.
After all this I do have a question for everyone. I was going to start a whole thread on the subject, but this seems like a good place for it as I see not only like minded people, but also ones in the know.
I asked on an other thread if making a professional hard copy of a book (in the case I was talking about Pathfinder #1) A. was it legal? and B. What kind of quality are we talking about. C. And where do you go for a professional job?
Vic answered the first question (thanks again) but as to the rest? Kinkos seems an odd choice, though I've heard them mentioned. I've gotten some print on demand products from Lulu, and I was impressed (KoK sutff) but if I had to use a PDF to back up a damaged book and print it what should I expect.
Well I say that's my copper, but I think I used up a gold.
TTFN DRE
P.S. Kill a tree, they were asking for it.
P.P.S. Am I the only one offended by the very concept of Kindel?
No... PDF's haven't curtailed my book buying habits. I'm in the "like a physical, hard-copy" camp... but appreciate the addition of a PDF for ease of printing out player handouts and such. So Paizo current set-up works fine for me.
~looks around my house and throws my hands up in hooror~ It should, but it appears that it hasn't! ~grumbles and mutters under my breath about either "needing to buy less books, or get more bookcases, or move to a bigger house"~
P.S. - Hardcopies all the way here, despite the mass of books being a fire hazard.
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No. I rarely even download the PDFs I get with my Paizo subscription, and I don't prefer to read leisure material from the monitor, so I'm not much on ebooks either (Kindle is a different story).
I have a huge collection of purchased PDFs from Paizo, but they are mostly OOP titles (like old D&D modules). I used to really work an RPG PDF, because I used a lot of player handouts, but I haven't played in two years now, so PDFs are currently much less important to me.
On a related note, not RPG-specific, I have bought a couple ebooks for my PocketPC, and I enjoyed reading them, but then the thing died, and I won't buy another one--I didn't use it as much as I thought I would anyway.
On the other hand, I will buy the new Amazon Kindle as soon as I get home this summer. Starting then, I anticipate buying most of the novels I read for the Kindle (it really is an awesome device), and my real books will be the ones either not available on Kindle, or ones I deliberately want to add to the library--Easton Press will become one of my big monthly expenses.
If Paizo went PDF-only, I'd cancel my subscriptions--I enjoy the look and feel of Pathfinder as much as the content. I have become a collector of Paizo books, and to that end a PDF has no personal value to me.
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I prefer printed books for my source materials and rules, but prefer PDFs for adventures.
For an adventure I can use notes and such to make changes, cut and edit what I want and don't want, and have everything I need right at hand in one folder.
I can print what I want for the game, or show an image if needed from my laptop.
For nearly everything else I prefer a printed book.
For research done clandestinely while at work, a PDF can't be beat.
I disagree on that one. Plaintext rules!!
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No - i'm a dedicated book collector (not only rpg-wise...got more than 3.000 of them...perhaps I SHOULD change to pdf...)I only get pdfs for pdf only stuff (Pathfinder society) or for books I can't get my Hands on for a decent price (Edens Magic Box, a few Alternity/Stardrive Products) that are available in online pdf stores.
Quite frankly, much as I do love holding & reading books, not every book is worth the money and effort spent in housing and moving them. I've found that PDFs make a great less-expensive alternative for the vast majority of read-once books, right along with greater use of the local library. I only buy the physical books that I feel will get a lot of in-bed or on-the-train reading. And tinkering with characters & reading adventures at work is clearly something one cannot do with a great honking DMG2 in your lap.
If the price was under $150 and/or more textbook/academic publishers released ebooks, I would jump on the Kindle in a heartbeat. Having the flexibility of a purse-sized virtual "stack of books" or research articles is enough to completely outweigh my love of the aesthetics of paper. I already do all my journal/newspaper reading online, esp. with RSS feeds, and having the ability to keep up with it on-the-go would be liberating, I think.
However for all you guys worried about your so called "Foot Print" I should point out A. Global Warming is a complet myth, an SUV is not stronger then the sun (and now out here in CA. they are thinking of outlawing Black and/or Dark Colored cars, no joke). B. Its been my experince that a gamer waste far more paper with PDF's then they ever do with a book.
For the record, human-accelerated climate change is quite clearly in progress, and trying to diminish or ignore it will not "make the bad weather go away". A Californian really ought to make an effort to know better. Long before the faults rupture, the desert will likely swallow the state whole. And when the cheap gas runs out in the next 20-odd years, I think you'll find it difficult to manage the freeway on a bicycle.
As for PDFs, while laptops/monitors do suck a good deal more electricity than reading lights, the e-Ink screens on modern ebook-readers (incl. Kindle & Sony's reader) only use battery power when you turn/change the page. So unless you're a really fast reader, you are using less energy. Book processing, publishing, and distribution takes a *lot* of energy, not counting the trees (many books are printed on partly-recycled paper anyway, at least those printed in the US, not sure about China-printed ones).
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As for PDFs, while laptops/monitors do suck a good deal more electricity than reading lights, the e-Ink screens on modern ebook-readers (incl. Kindle & Sony's reader) only use battery power when you turn/change the page. So unless you're a really fast reader, you are...
Because, you know, folks, it is SO much better for the environment to use a device that uses leech mined metals and metalloids than to read something made from fast growth softwoods...
Quite frankly, much as I do love holding & reading books, not every book is worth the money and effort spent in housing and moving them. I've found that PDFs make a great less-expensive alternative for the vast majority of read-once books, right along with greater use of the local library. I only buy the physical books that I feel will get a lot of in-bed or on-the-train reading. And tinkering with characters & reading adventures at work is clearly something one cannot do with a great honking DMG2 in your lap.
Me too. I have downsized my library of gaming books to the point where all of them will fit in a shelf on my computer desk. I have hundreds of PDF's on my computer - EVERY book from 3.0 and 3.5 D&D, most from 2nd edition, dozens of modules from 1st edition through various other gaming companies, and more; I also have most of these backed up on disc should my computer blow up and die.
I love books and prefer them, but space and money, and the fact that 99% of my gaming is online these days, have made it more reasonable to work with PDF's.
Must admit I much prefer wherever possible to have print versions [particularly of rulebooks] but recently I've been buying pdf versions of sourcebooks and adventures far more... Partly [as Krome mentioned] for ease of using elements in part for sessions, but particularly due to shipping costs etc to the UK [and delivery time]. If its good enough I will then invest in the "hard" copy but right now I'm a reluctant pdf'r.
I think there's a big difference between newspapers and books, or even magazines: A newspaper is worthless to me after one day, and it isn't really designed to be archived. I'm not going to read a news article over and over.
An RPG book is as useful to me years from now as it is today.
I am a kill the tree all the way. There is nothing better than holding a book in your had. Reading stories and gaming stuff on a computer screen hurts my eyes and makes me sleepy. So even if I do get a pdf I still print it out.
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I buy both, but I prefer the physical copy in my hands.
For something that I want to spend a lot of time reading and referencing, I will definitely get the printed version, as I would rather read hard copy over soft copy. For my Pathfinder subscription, when I get the PDF, I will skim it over and read only bits and pieces. Once I have the hardcopy, I will read the entire thing, cover to cover.
For stuff that I want to use in my game, I will occassionally buy both the hard copy and the PDF version. With the PDF version, I can create hand outs, print select pages which I can scribble on, that sort of thing. I love handouts, and for my campaigns, I will make a number of them. I enjoy being able to give the players something that they find and watch them read over it trying to figure it out.
Quite frankly, much as I do love holding & reading books, not every book is worth the money and effort spent in housing and moving them. I've found that PDFs make a great less-expensive alternative for the vast majority of read-once books, right along with greater use of the local library. I only buy the physical books that I feel will get a lot of in-bed or on-the-train reading. And tinkering with characters & reading adventures at work is clearly something one cannot do with a great honking DMG2 in your lap.Me too. I have downsized my library of gaming books to the point where all of them will fit in a shelf on my computer desk. I have hundreds of PDF's on my computer - EVERY book from 3.0 and 3.5 D&D, most from 2nd edition, dozens of modules from 1st edition through various other gaming companies, and more; I also have most of these backed up on disc should my computer blow up and die.
I love books and prefer them, but space and money, and the fact that 99% of my gaming is online these days, have made it more reasonable to work with PDF's.
What this d00d said.
I plan on running a few games via D20Pro of Fantasy Grounds.
When I put together a session for a tabletop game PDF's are INVALUABLE. They save me so much time in altering and or copying stats for sessions.
I subscribe to the Paizo AP's. I read the hard copies on the train or in bed. But for actual use in my games they're pretty much useless. They're to pretty to ruin by writing in them, they dont lay down flat on the table for easy use during a game and I can't easily photocopy the maps for use either. The pictures of NPC's and monsters in the book? I show those to my PC's they're surrounded by text. Nuh-uh.
I've walked into my FLGS and seen adventures and sourcebooks that I want but I wont buy them in hardcopy anymore. If theyre not available as a PDF they wont get any use from me. If I can get a hard copy and a PDF together for a reasonable price (Yay Paizo!) then I could do that. Otherwise, nah.
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As for PDFs, while laptops/monitors do suck a good deal more electricity than reading lights, the e-Ink screens on modern ebook-readers (incl. Kindle & Sony's reader) only use battery power when you turn/change the page. So unless you're a really fast reader, you are...
Because, you know, folks, it is SO much better for the environment to use a device that uses leech mined metals and metalloids than to read something made from fast growth softwoods...
...grown as a replenished cash crop...not to mention very little of the paper most books are made from has more than 20% virgin fiber...
For research done clandestinely while at work, a PDF can't be beat.I disagree on that one. Plaintext rules!!
I guess it depends on the work. I am allowed to access my laptop at my work during down time, but I can see if you are not allowed to access anything then plaintext would be good. I don't think my boss would like me putting a stack of D&D books on my desk though ... not really professional.
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I only use PDFs for quick lookups. I prefer to read in print and prefer buying PDFs for books I own print copies of. So no, pdfs have not greatly affected my print buying habits.
If anything, should I be a fence-sitter on a particular printed book, a free .pdf copy that goes with it is often the tipping point to buy.
I guess it depends on the work. I am allowed to access my laptop at my work during down time, but I can see if you are not allowed to access anything then plaintext would be good. I don't think my boss would like me putting a stack of D&D books on my desk though ... not really professional.
I've been running Red Hand of Doom for the past two years and I have a hard copy and a PDF - I use both at work, being very careful to use the book when I know I have some free time without interruption. However, I have had folks walk in my office when I have a battle map up on Paint and they ask, "Hey what's that?"
"Just something I'm working on," is my pat answer. :)
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I go with a lot of pdf .. I didn't read one single page of the print version of Curse of the Crimson Throne or Second Darkness.. that being said part of that reason was because I've been using my laptop to run games more, and they were free with my subscription.
I printed out a lot of the monsters for RotRL because it was just easier than trying to figure out what issue each creature was in, etc.
I will continue to buy hard copy because I am a bibliophile. I feel there is something intrinsically valuable about books. I don't need batteries to read a book. I don't have to worry about it becoming corrupted or unreadable because of outdated software.
Besides call me crazy but I've always wanted a large library in my house and it just doesn't look the same filled with writable media, etc.
So I'm a bit torn between collecting and using..
Trent
"The love of learning, the sequestered nooks, And all the sweet serenity of books."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow"
I will continue to buy hard copy because I am a bibliophile. I feel there is something intrinsically valuable about books. I don't need batteries to read a book. I don't have to worry about it becoming corrupted or unreadable because of outdated software.
I don't believe there's any book-hating going on here, it's just practical realities vs. idealized aesthetics. If I had a huge mansion with oodles of space for floor-ceiling library shelves, and unlimited funds, I assure you I'd be happy to buy hard copy for every title I ever read/will read. If other folks can manage a 5K-book collection (or larger, according to LibraryThing!) with more moderate space and finances, more power to 'em.
As for the technology issues, file backups are like dental cleanings - ignore them at your peril until it becomes a big pain. And PDF is a well-supported, and now legally open-to-all, file standard, so when some new universal standard is born, I'm sure there'll be plenty of options to convert to it from PDF. That said, I'm not keen on the online-only ebook options, or on the various proprietary formats - I think download-to-own in a general-purpose format is really the best way to go at this point.
And I agree that the toxic batteries and ill-gotten metals are not ideal, but until someone invents the solar-powered, replicator-built Star Trek reader, I'll take the less-ideal solution.
I tend to buy PDF's for one of three reasons:
1. What I want is OOP and it would cost me a mint to buy it on E-Bay or somewhere (i.e. 2e Planescape material).
2. The cost being offered on PDF is significantly (40%+) less than the hard copy (like everyone else, I'm trying to stretch the gaming dollar these days).
3. It's offered ONLY as a PDF (i.e. Most of the material for the Darwin's World RPG).
However, over time, for me, that has added up to ALOT of PDF files.
So, to answer the OP's original question, has my PDF buying curtailed my dead tree version buying? No. I buy just as many books as I ever have -- Paizo, WotC, Malhavoc, Black Industries, Green Ronin, etc., etc. -- My discretionary dollars have one principal destination.
To respond to the question/statement that has been underlying many of the posts on this thread -- has my love of books biased me against PDF's in general? Again, the answer is no. I believe both have their place, and though in a perfect world, everything would be available in print, I'm glad certain things are available in PDF, as I would not be able to get them any other way (that Planescape material is just too cool).