Sharina, Legend Singer
Female human bard 6
Description: "I will make you immortal!" - Sharina, Legend Singer
Sharina has long raven tresses, flawless dusky skin, dark eyes full of stars, and always a hint of a smile: she's tall, slim, and captivating. Her appearance would certainly draw plenty of attention even if she didn't have the grace of a cat and a voice like strawberry wine. She loves nothing better than to perform songs about legendary heroes before an adoring crowd, especially if she composed them herself. She’s known throughout the county of Silver Bluff better than Count Meliden himself.
Motivations/Goals: Sharina is out to make the PCs famous, by any means necessary. She knows that by composing and performing works about their heroic prowess, she gains even more fame than they do. So she seeks every opportunity to turn potential threats into real ones. She uses suggestions to stoke simmering hostilities. She uses her knowledge skills to seek out and antagonize dangerous beasts. And when she thinks the PCs are ready to take a featured role in it, she'll start a war. If confronted as the source of these problems she will use persuasion, acrobatics, and magic to escape, but even afterward she'll manipulate and assist from the background, turning the PCs into heroes of legend--whether they like it or not.
Schemes/Plots/Adventure Hooks: Ideally, Sharina is a companion to the PCs' party, or at least a frequent guide and ally. This is the perfect spot for her to manipulate events, where she can use bluff and diplomacy skills to provoke encounters, while still proving her value by empowering the PCs to even greater exploits, and growing more powerful as they do. The PCs can consult her on knowledge of the Silver Bluff area, and won't know that she's leading them directly into dangers they could have avoided.
A young adult white dragon has recently made its home atop Silver Peak. Sharina sends whispering winds to taunt it, daring it to attack homesteads and carry off juicy livestock.
Sharina secretly composes derogatory songs about Count Puckett, hot-headed ruler of a nearby domain. No one knows their source, but they're hilarious and contagious. Count Puckett even hears them in his sleep. When he's at the height of his ire, Sharina sends him a forged note to inform him that the songs were composed by the young son of Count Meliden.
When the PCs begin to endanger the fame she's built at their expense, Sharina launches her ultimate plan. She draws an overwhelming hostile force (say, a horde of orcs, or the army of an enraged count) to a large, poorly defended village. She then sends a message to the PCs, telling them honestly that the only way to save the villagers is for the PCs to hold a choke point in a nearby valley long enough for her to evacuate the village. She promises their glorious sacrifice will be sung of forever, and bids them farewell.
SHARINA, LEGEND SINGER CR 4 [bard level 6 - 2]
CN medium human
Init +6 [+2 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative]; Senses Perception +0
===== Defense =====
AC 18 [10, +5 armor, +2 Dex, +1 Dodge], touch 13 [10, +2 Dex, +1 Dodge], flat-footed 15 [10, +5 armor]; (+5 armor [+4 chain shirt, +1 bracers], +2 Dex, +1 Dodge)
hp 33 (6d8+6 [+1 Con])
Fort +3 [+2 bard level, +1 Con], Ref +7 [+5 bard level, +2 Dex], Will +5 [+5 bard level]
Defensive Abilities Acrobatics skill, inspire courage +2, Run feat, well-versed
===== Offense =====
Spd 30 ft. [mithral shirt], run 150 ft. [x5 Run feat]; expeditious retreat
Melee rapier +3 [+4 at bard level 6, -1 Str] (1d6-1 [-1 Str]/18-20)
Ranged composite short bow +7 [+4 at bard level 6, +2 Dex, +1 enhancement] (1d6+1 [+1 enhancement]/x3)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th):
6/day--bardic performance: countersong, distraction, fascinate (DC 17 [10, +3 1/2 bard level, +4 Cha]), inspire competence, inspire courage +2, suggestion (DC 17 [10, +3 1/2 bard level, +4 Cha])
Spells Known (bard CL 6th):
2nd (4/day [3 at bard level 6, +1 for cha])--enthrall (DC 16 [10, +2 spell level, +4 Cha]), locate object, suggestion (DC 16 [10, +2 spell level, +4 Cha]), whispering wind
1st (5/day [4 at bard level 6, +1 for cha])--charm person (DC 15 [10, +1 spell level, +4 Cha]), disguise self (DC 15 [10, +1 spell level, +4 Cha]), expeditious retreat, silent image (DC 15 [10, +1 spell level, +4 Cha])
0 (at will)--dancing lights, detect magic, flare (DC 14 [10, +4 Cha]), ghost sound (DC 14 [10, +4 Cha]), mage hand, message
===== Tactics =====
Before Combat If combat seems imminent, Sharina takes a support position at the rear of her willing-or-unwilling allies. She prefers elevated positions that offer cover or concealment. If she has no allies available, she employs Bluff, enthrall, fascinate, suggestion, and/or charm person--as appropriate to the quantity and power of the opponents--to delay combat long enough to withdraw.
During Combat Throughout combat Sharina uses bardic performance, singing to inspire courage in her allies. She switches to countersong or distraction if circumstances warrant. If directly threatened she uses suggestion and charm person to turn opponents into assistants, employing her shortbow only as a last resort while staying out of melee range. If an opponent manages to close to melee range she uses Acrobatics to withdraw without provoking attacks of opportunity; if cornered she performs total defense actions until someone comes to her aid.
Morale Sharina flees if she has lost half her hit points, if she has only a single 1st level spell allotment remaining, or if she has no remaining allies. She uses expeditious retreat to enhance her speed, and Acrobatics to jump over gaps and to jump down from high places, hoping pursuers will not follow. If a crowd makes running difficult, she instead uses disguise self to blend in until a better opportunity to flee arises. If she has a standard action during her flight she uses dancing lights, flare, or ghost sound to create a distraction. If her allies turn against her she drinks her potion of invisibility before fleeing.
===== Statistics =====
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 18 [15, +2 human, +1 every 4 levels]
Base Atk +4; CMB +3 [+4 base attack, -1 Str]
Feats [4 total: 1st, 3rd, and 5th level feats, human bonus feat] Deceitful, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Run
Reputations fame (Silver Bluff) 3
Skills [6 ranks each in 8 (6, +1 Int, +1 human) skill selections, 6 ranks in 1 extra bardic knowledge skill (local)] Acrobatics +11 [6 ranks, +3 class, +2 Dex] (+4 to jump after a running start), Appraise +1 [+1 Int], Bluff +15 [6 ranks, +3 class, +4 Cha, +2 Deceitful] (+3 reputation bonus to deceive others in Silver Bluff), Climb -1 [-1 Str], Craft (any) +1 [+1 Int], Diplomacy +13 [6 ranks, +3 class, +4 Cha] (+3 reputation bonus in Silver Bluff), Disguise +6 [+4 Cha, +2 Deceitful] (+10 if using disguise self, +2 if using disguise kit), Escape Artist +2 [+2 Dex], Intimidate +4 [+4 Cha] (+3 reputation bonus in Silver Bluff), Knowledge (history) +13 [6 ranks, +3 class, +3 1/2 bard level, +1 Int], Knowledge (local) +13 [6 ranks, +3 class, +3 1/2 bard level, +1 Int], Knowledge (nobility) +13 [6 ranks, +3 class, +3 1/2 bard level, +1 Int], Knowledge (other) +4 [+3 1/2 bard level, +1 Int], Linguistics +10 [6 ranks, +3 class, +1 Int], Perform (sing) +13 [6 ranks, +3 class, +4 Cha] (+3 reputation bonus in Silver Bluff), Perform (other) +4 [+4 Cha] (+3 reputation bonus in Silver Bluff), Ride +2 [+2 Dex], Spellcraft +1 [+1 Int], Stealth +11 [6 ranks, +3 class, +2 Dex], Swim -1 [-1 Str]; lore master
Languages [7 total: 1 human, 6 ranks Linguistics] Common, Elven, Draconic, Giant, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan
Combat Gear composite short bow +1 with 20 arrows, rapier, mithral shirt, bracers of armor +1; Other Gear potion of invisibility, potion of cure moderate wounds, disguise kit
Reputations
A reputation is an attribute that describes how well you are known in a specific community, such as a village, a nation, or an organization. It is granted by the GM as a consequence of your actions in that community, and can increase as a result of publicity associated with those actions. Reputation values range from 1 to 5, are always assigned in the context of a specific community, and take the form of fame (good reputation) or infamy (bad reputation). You can have both good and bad reputations in the same community: your total reputation in a community is the sum of your fame and infamy values. The sum of your good and bad reputations within a community can never exceed 5.
Your reputation values modify the following skills when dealing exclusively with members of the specified community:
Bluff: On checks to deceive others, your fame value applies as a reputation bonus, and your infamy value applies as a reputation penalty.
Diplomacy: On all Diplomacy checks, your fame value applies as a reputation bonus, and your infamy value applies as a reputation penalty.
Intimidate: Your total reputation applies as a reputation bonus to your Intimidate skill checks.
Knowledge: Your total reputation subtracts from the Knowledge check DC for others to recall information about you.
Perform: On all Perform checks, your fame value applies as a reputation bonus, and your infamy value applies as a reputation penalty.
Sense Motive: Your total reputation subtracts from the Sense Motive check DC for others to get a hunch about you or sense enchantments upon you.
Reputation modifiers do not stack: if reputation values from multiple communities would apply, use the highest applicable values.
Carl, Sharina was a big hit with the community it appears. So whatever reluctance I had from last round I wont hold against you this round. The people have spoken!
So, that said, lets see what improvements you made...
Not that much, really. Basically, you edited out some of her overdone hotness. I think you wasted a chance to improve her focus. In particular, of great concern was the "she's part of the party" angle. Many worried about the playability of this approach. I'm disappointed you didnt try to address those concerns.
So on to the stat block and the rules bit, feeling a little let down that you didnt do much with your chance to refocus her.
I'll let the pros give you their comments on the stat block. Its not knockign me out. I mean, this is only a bard 6. But the tactics section is a tad underwhelming. It doesnt deal with her real issue--how she handles the PCs when they learn she is manipulating the encounter to happen whether they want it or not. I mean, maybe the same tactics apply, but I think that situation needs specific details, because that is the fight with here where she is interesting--the fight with the dragon when the PCs keep getting urged forward by her and one or more of them says "hey wait a minute, she's the one that is making us fight him..." So what happens then? I dont think you spell that out properly and that is really the one thing I need to know as a the DM
Then I think your new rules bit is real weak. Its basically DM perogative disquised as a rule. The DM grants up a bonus as he or she sees fit and it helps you in certain circumstances. I thought this was poorly done.
I do not recommend Sharina to advance.
Background: Basically the same info as Round 2 (which I liked).
Stat block: format looks solid. I am amused that she has no ranks in Perception and that for a Will-favored class she has no Wisdom bonus to Will saves. :)
I would have liked to have seen more about how she deals with former allies in combat.
New Rule Element: I wanted more details about this, particularly in the area of guidance for a GM about what sort of action is worth a reputation bump. And rather than having fame and infamy scale from +1 to +5, you could just have 1 stat that scales from -5 to +5 and you wouldn't have to add them together. I know you were running up against the word count, but much of the end text was repetitive; I would have written it in a more consolidated way and used the freed-up words to explain the earlier part more.
The stuff I liked before is still here, but the new elements didn't wow me.
Rec: do not advance.
Director of Games
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Bard villains are a tricky lot, and I think Sharina is heading in the right direction. Using the bard to instigate fights against the PCs so that she can tell their heroic tales could make for an interesting backbone to a campaign arc. That said, I think the plot hooks fall a little flat. They just do not seem 100% in tune (get it.. tune.. bard.. ahem.. moving on) with the rest of her backstory.
On to the stats... wait, a 6th level character? Hooray. An easy stat block for me to look through, although this means that I must hold it to a higher standard since it is easier to assemble. First off, bracers of armor and a chain shirt do not stack with one another, making her AC and her flat-footed AC off by 1 each. In addition, her dodge bonus is not always active, making her AC and touch AC off by another 1 each. Her hit points are incorrect, as you did not give her maximum hit points for first level. Her defensive abilities include some elements that should be placed elsewhere (Acrobatics, which should not be listed anywhere except skills, inspire courage, and Run). Her speeds are incorrect (if she has expeditious retreat precast, this should be figured in, and Run should not be listed). Her shortbow should be listed as +1 in the attack line. The spells appear to be correct, both in number per day and number known. I agree with Clark that her tactics do not really support how she might end up in combat with the PCs. Feats appear to be correct (although she does not have her bonus weapon proficiency for being a human listed). Her skills are a complete mess due to listing every skill that she has a bonus is, regardless of whether or not she put any ranks in them, but those that should be listed appear correct. I cannot see that Sharina got any bonuses from her favored class.
On to the additional rules component. I like that you tried to go out of the box here and make a rules element to adjudicate how much your character is liked or disliked in a given city. Unfortunately, I think the rules fall a little flat and are a bit cumbersome. I am unsure how you gain or lose points in either one of these values, but I suspect this is because you ran out of space to include some examples or guidelines. I also think that the limit of 5 is a bit arbitrary, but I can appreciate the attempt to limit its usefulness.
While the errors here are not too terrible, they are quite numerous for what should be a relatively simple stat block to put together.
My Grade (on a 1-10 scale) is a 4.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Kobold Press
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Sharina is level 6? That's refreshing, since most of the villains I've seen have been in the double digits. Right from the start, then, I'm curious to see what you do with the 1600 words.
And in one sense, reading the revised concept, it's clear that Sharina's stats just don't matter. By the time the mechanics of combat kick in, her usefulness as a villain is over. That's her appeal, of course, the bard-as-hidden-troublemaker shtick served you well last round. But now, once the PCs know what they are up against, it's a bit of an anticlimax to actually defeat a lowly bard.
I like the appearance of Run in the Speed section, plus expeditious retreat. I like what I see for weapon and armor choices at this level; standard but effective. The trouble from a design perspective is that if you make Sharina a useless ally to the PCs, then she's no good as long as she's on their side. To make her a real challenge to the party in the final confrontation she needs to be strong, but as a sidekick she should be weak. That the heart of the design challenge here, and I'm not sure it is entirely resolved.
The Before Combat section, for instance, assumes she's an ally, or seems to assume taht. It reads more like a PC set of tactics; few villains can use Bluff or Charm against PCs effectively.
In any case, the real design interest here is the Reputation section, which is an entire rules subsystem (heck, it could be an article in Kobold Quarterly). It certainly matches well with the assumed playstyle implied by the Sharina campaign. I'm not sure that the mechanics are entirely there (a +10 to Intimidate seems possible under the rules as written). I like the premise, but I don't quite buy the application to Knowledge and Insight.
Recommendation I'm on the fence. The bard stats themselves are solid but not hugely inspiring. The Reputation rules are interesting but thin for what could be a big set of new modifiers to 6 skills.
Reputation rang a bell
Thus, it in no way impresses me as something new.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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Well, not much changed in the text portion, though I did like that Sharina is now tied to a specific location and local rulers, etc. It's easy to switch that out to fit your home game, but if you want ease of use to just grab a villain and run a game with them, the more little details like that, the better.
The stat block didn't impress me. This has nothing to do with a 6th level bard doesn't have a sexy stat block, but more to do with the errors. For me, the stat block round is about how well designed the character is, and how well the rules were followed. First there's the bracers of armor stacking with the mithril shirt that shouldn't (and for the same price, you could have just made +1 mithril shirt). No favored class bonus, no 1st level max hp, and no hp bonus using one of the options on p. 14 of beta. Finally, you mention her use of the distraction bardic ability, but she has no ranks in a valid perform skill. The beta rules require a minimum number of ranks in a applicable perform skill, and distraction requires 1 rank in Perform (act, comedy, dance, or oratory), which she doesn't have.
As for the new rule bit, I wasn't a big fan either. Not only have there been a variety of reputation rules around in different sources, but this doesn't give the most important piece, which is how to gain it (other than by being granted by the GM.) Because of this, it's a pretty unusable rule as written.
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well I see Sharina asa growing villain... but yes I expected her to appear frail and abit useless just to reveal herself as a decent rival, but yes I see her more running than combating...
reputation is not new...but is refreshing to see it addressed...
I will keep Sharina in mind as i read the rest... I decided to read my votes first, AND then decide where I want to vote.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I love the Sharina concept, and I may yet use her in my campaign, and you get a thumbs-up for low-level villain, hich is simultaneously easier to do and harder to do well, because all of the best options seem pretty obvious.
The other thing, of course, is that Sharina is supposed to level up with the PCs, and so who knows what abilitiies she'd actually have at the poitn when the PCs really face off against her.
I thought you really should've done more to update the adventure hooks (esp. the "Count Puckett" name and the "perhaps some orcs or enraged count" ones) - they were weakly detailed.
The reputation mechanic is a worthwhile idea, but nothing new even for 3rd Ed, as Darkjoy pointed out from the SRD/Unearthed Arcana. It also is a terribly difficult mechanic to really make work in a campaign unless the DM is wholly in the bag wanting to track it.
I'm unfortunately just not feeling the love for Sharina this round. I still like the concept, but the execution... it's not bad but I don't think it's Superstar.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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Congratulations on Superstar '09 Top 16!
Growth
You still have those cliches 'grace of a cat' and 'voice like strawberry wine'. The entry looks largely the same, including that I don't buy the first adventure hook. I know a lot of people liked Sharina, but I am still not moved by her. She just doesn't quite arise to a villain who is completed by the PCs, and she still has no ambitions besides riding their coattails.
Mechanics
- Many folks might differ with me on this. But your 'villain' is CN, but committed to any act to enhance her reputation - including unleashing a white dragon on the villagers and sending the PCs to their death to remove them as an obstacle. I more see a CN 'villain' as one of those guys who retorts with 'they had it coming', or 'hey - as long as no one gets hurt, right?'
- I'm looking through my Beta, and trying to understand why a human bard 6 is CR 4. I'm not a master of the system, yet, so I'll keep looking.
- Bracers of armor don't stack with the mithral armor.
- You listed the gamut of bardic performance abilities under spell-like abilities, and listed inspire courage as a defensive ability (which gives +2 to attack and damage rolls and a save bonus vs fear effects).
- Skill presentation is hard to read, but I see 6 ranks in at least 10 skills. Sharina only has 48 ranks to spread around. She might get another 6 because of favored class, but I don't see FN class noted, and it's still too many skill points.
- You know, mechanically, she is good for one hit by a fighter of her level, and she's going to flee. Her kit doesn't offer her any tricks, and she has no combat presence at all. So her only gift is her gab, and that's not a compelling choice for me. I get that she's not supposed to be physically dangerous, but that doesn't seem like good design. Maybe if she had Leadership and at least some kind of bodyguard. Her feats and spell selections offer no challenge, no twist, and no bite.
New Hotness
Reputation seems like something more suited for simple roleplay than a commendable system mechanic. If it's completely given out by the GM, anyway, why saddle her with new reputation rules for her PCs and NPCs? Moreover, I can't see a single reputation/infamy number applying to all types of interaction. Does an all-around nice old man with a great reputation gain an Intimidate bonus when young thugs roll into his neighborhood? What about different segments of society? A corrupt union organizer might have a great reputation with dock-workers and the local thieves' guild. Does he enjoy the same reputation among merchants and the constabulary?
Overall
Sharina is right where I left her. An annoyance who is either a mediocre campaign plot, or a distraction from a better plot. I just can't get behind her as a compelling villain. Her stat block leaves much to be desired to me. The errors and presentation tell me you're more a conceptual DM, without a lockdown on the rules and crunch of the game. That's fine at home, but as a designer, I want a solid stat block, and something new and exciting in the design choices. Sharina is so fragile that once the gig is up, it's time to start reading boxed text for the next adventure. She's certainly not going to offer anything further.
I just don't understand this character. I like the concept, and think she would work out great as that reoccurring npc that is unknowingly causing problems. I don't think she works as a part of the party, and the tactics section seals it for me.
She's a character that will leave the party if she gets too hurt and a liability in combat who relies on the party to protect her. The first time she runs from combat and a party member dies, she will probably be ousted from the party, and that limits her direct interaction.
The bard who gives the party fame and danger to leverage fame for herself. She's not that much changed in fluff, but she's grown on me in that I've internalized that there's more description of her schemes beyond "she starts a war!" I don't think she was perfect enough not to brush up the fluff. The writer uses a few more commas than good grammar can stand. Stat block's OK but unremarkable. I approve of trying a low level villain, though. Overall she's decent but I would hesitate to say Superstar material. 5/10.
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Mr. Klutzke, you seem like a really nice guy so I hope you don’t take my criticism as an attack.
This villain is terrible. I can’t use it and I can’t vote for it. This is the only one out of the seventeen that’s been an easy reject so far.
The central problem is that Sharina is railroady. To be any threat at all to the party she has to automatically succeed in her plots and schemes. The other villains are all actively participating and/or directing their minions in schemes that the party has some chance of thwarting. This one relies on deus ex machina being inflicted on the PCs. My games are more sandbox then plotted. Given her stats she’d likely fail one of her schemes and be eliminated for trying to upset the applecart before the group even knows of her existence.
Another problem is that she has no real ability to defend herself once she’s been detected. It’s just clean up for the party once her motives are clear. Her only chance to escape retribution would be to run far and hide. Keeping a low profile would end her career as a legend singer. Once again she essentially defeats herself. No vote.
As for the stat block… Sharina is listed as chaotic neutral. She’s willing to endanger the lives of numerous people to advance herself or even just on a whim. CN? No, from her description she’s clearly CE and has no real way to hide it. I don’t have to read any further after something like that and can just take the judges word on it. Once again, no vote.
Sam
Yeah, I'm not getting where the -2 CR adjustment is coming from...
Well, the problem that this is a concept villain comes up this round. As another writer pointed out, this is a villain to whom stat block does not matter: when it comes to actual use its main usability is over (bit like nuclear weapons).
And yet despite relatively straightforward stat block Jason & co. managed to find errors...
The part where you could have shone on this round, new rule, was also somewhat underwhelming...I've seen similar things before and basically it always anyway comes up to DM giving bonuses and penalties to CHA-skill rolls. Sorry, no vote despite the fact that this is a villain I will probably use at some point (as a concept PC with a hidden agenda).
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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Hey - where is that? I couldn't find it?
And from folks who have playedmore than I have...does that hold up? Aren't all the characters (except Sharina) more powerful, so the CR should be about the same? What changes that dynamic?
I've got to speak up for this bard's ability to defend herself.
First, the tactics section makes clear that turning the party against each other is her best tactic.
Her initiative is +6, which will maximizes her ability to get the drop on the party. The party fighters and rogues are going to be hers, the majority of the time. A 3rd or 4th level fighter or rogue is going to fail 55-70 percent of the time against a DC 15 charm person, a DC 16 suggestion or enthrall. Both of them might dump charisma, making her control over them better than usual with charm person.
So, basically, it might very well be the her, the grunt and the skill monkey vs. the arcanist and the healer. Sure, the grunt will be grappling the magi, but that's all good for Sharina. Fighting Sharina inevitably leads to an interesting encounter to role play at the table.
And that's in a worst-case scenario of the entire party turning en masse on her at once.
Second, it's much more likely is that she's got allies amongst the party, or people on the fence due to uncertain proof of villainy, or at least people that are unwilling to use lethal force against her. God help the party if she's become the love interest that Paizo's put in EVERY ADVENTURE PATH.
Third, even if her enchantments fail her, she's got Stealth +11, Expeditious Retreat, and a potion of invisibility. Because if she gets away, you're fighting on her turf: the arena of public opinion. Now, you've got a competent bard letting everyone know that the PCs tried to kill their hagiographer, their legendsinger. They are now ungrateful psychotics who are not to be trusted.
Murder is no solution, unless they happen to have hard proof of her villainy that will stand up in a court of law. Her best protection is the City Watch and her adoring public demanding justice.
Finally, so what if the PCs kill her? That's the point of villains, right? For once, the player's payoff is in the reveal, in solving a mystery. That's not a flaw. That's a feature.
Yes, she doesn't work in hack and slash campaigns... but you're not going to USE her in a hack and slash campaign are you? Some of these villains simply wouldn't work in a diplomacy, cloak and daggers campaign, but we don't hold that against them, do we?
I might vote against this one on the grounds of the new rule or the stat block errors. But survivability? Not a voting concern for me or anyone used to using bards.
I would have liked to see some information given on how Sharina 'advances' (spell choices taken, etc) as she levels up, and variations depending on if she's been accepted into the party fold or not; from a DM perspective guidelines like that would make me more inclined to run the villain, and give me a slightly better idea of what direction she's coming from and the tactics she intends to use/develop.
I'd want that in an adventure path too. I don't know that the Superstar can lawfully provide that info in the stat block round, however.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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Hey - where is that? I couldn't find it?
And from folks who have playedmore than I have...does that hold up? Aren't all the characters (except Sharina) more powerful, so the CR should be about the same? What changes that dynamic?
NPCs have crap equipment (except at the very lowest levels), so it was always true that for example a level 12 fighter was a weak CR 12. My personal opinion is that PF RPG took a bit too far with -2, but I'm enthused about the likelihood of it being a -1 in the final.
Playtesting, NPCs are coming off a bit tough for their CR, but honestly closer than they were in 3.5E.
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Made before reading any other comments.
Mechanics: I haven't taken the time to read through the PF Beta rules, but this looks good. Definitely no problem of overpowerment; young white dragons are foolish and probably wouldn't need much prodding to attack humanoids. A young white dragon is the same power level as Sharina herself, and could be influenced by her. The orc bit seems tougher to tackle, and she'd have to do some serious disguise self-coupled with Bluff to make them do what she wanted. This villain is good for her level, but she's not really going to provide a big showdown at the end (the xp for killing a bunch of orcs is much greater than that for imprisoning Sharina or killing her). Out of 10: 7
Fluff: Certainly memorable. A low-level bard mobilizing armies. However, seems more like a plot-driver than something unique. Why is Sharina so fame-drunken? Were there any other heroes she put in unfortunate situations? What was her life like before she met the PCs? Sharina is kinda two-dimensional; she only comes into play when the GM needs a plot hook and acts like a non-NPC the rest of the time. Unique, but she doesn't seem to have any quirks. She's just your typical bard, one who just happens to make evil come to the PCs. Out of 10: 6
Playability: Sharina doesn't make for a very playable character. PCs just don't work that well with an NPC tagging along. A skilled GM could shine here, with uncomfortable situations where the PCs have to confront her, but it's unlikely that he's going to bother when there are more interesting and compelling villains. Make her too far from the party, and they won't really care about her. Put her in their ranks, and she's going to cause discord and strife. Many players would become attached to her and not want to discipline her, and the DM would just have to keep trying to put impossible problems ahead of them to make them finally ditch her. Unfortunately, she's either going to last much too long or not long enough. Out of 10: 4
Overall: Though she's interesting, and better than some of the entries this round, she's not very versatile. Most GMs would have to stretch believability. Total, out of 30: 19
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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Charles Evans: Thanks, I found it with your guidance. I would say the change makes sense to me if monsters will have the bonus for class skills and same HD progression, which I assume they will.
Roguerouge: You're smart and all, but I can't agree with you like I usually do. I ant a superstar villian to be good at everything. I don't want a change-of-pace villain between tougher fights or bigger plots. I couldn't agree more that not every villain needs to be CR 20 and swallowing the world into the Abyss, I couldn't agree less that Sharina is as compelling as a villain who can fight.
And I can't imagine something more boring than a recurring villain who charms your barbarian as her only real defense. Once is already not fun for me, whether I'm the barbarian player whacking my wizard, or whether I'm the wizard trying not to take the words "Well, Bagzar would power attack for eight, I guess" too personally, or whether I'm the DM being given these weird looks because the barbarian is still raging, but Sharina was critted by a longbow three rounds ago and died badly.
Yeah, I'm not getting where the -2 CR adjustment is coming from...PF RPG Beta. PC classes have a CR of level -2, NPC clssses level -3.
OK, that does sound familiar. Upon mulling over the multiple appearances of CR -2, I came to that conclusion last night, and I'm glad to see I'm not just crazy.
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Just started reading through the other comments.
New rules (-ish): In Unearthed Arcana, there's a mechanic like this, though it has more scope. Would have been better to just use those rules (they're on the SRD).
Errors:
First off, bracers of armor and a chain shirt do not stack with one another, making her AC and her flat-footed AC off by 1 each.
I was kinda wondering about the bracers, but I was unfamiliar with the rules for PF Beta, so I didn't add that.
Many folks might differ with me on this. But your 'villain' is CN, but committed to any act to enhance her reputation - including unleashing a white dragon on the villagers and sending the PCs to their death to remove them as an obstacle. I more see a CN 'villain' as one of those guys who retorts with 'they had it coming', or 'hey - as long as no one gets hurt, right?'
Absolutely. She's not innocent, and could well end up getting people killed. NE or LE, maybe? She's not pursuing justice or anything.
I just don't understand this character. I like the concept, and think she would work out great as that reoccurring npc that is unknowingly causing problems. I don't think she works as a part of the party, and the tactics section seals it for me.
Ironically, Sharina is not a misdirected bard like Elan. She's evil, or pretty close to it, whether or not her alignment registers as such. While I could see her evolving as the campaign goes on, that's work that I, as a DM (did that slip out again? I meant GM) am gonna have to do. It's not in here. I would think that if people made it past the first round, they would have the next parts prepared ahead of time (contingency, anyone?).
Yeah, I'm not getting where the -2 CR adjustment is coming from...
Exactly. I guess it's a PF thing, as none of the judges addressed its blatancy.
Beta Playtest, Page 291, Adding NPCs:
Ok, that clears things up...
Sorry for the long posts.
Roguerouge: You're smart and all, but I can't agree with you like I usually do. I ant a superstar villian to be good at everything. I don't want a change-of-pace villain between tougher fights or bigger plots. I couldn't agree more that not every villain needs to be CR 20 and swallowing the world into the Abyss, I couldn't agree less that Sharina is as compelling as a villain who can fight.And I can't imagine something more boring than a recurring villain who charms your barbarian as her only real defense. Once is already not fun for me, whether I'm the barbarian player whacking my wizard, or whether I'm the wizard trying not to take the words "Well, Bagzar would power attack for eight, I guess" too personally, or whether I'm the DM being given these weird looks because the barbarian is still raging, but Sharina was critted by a longbow three rounds ago and died badly.
'sokay. Can't win them all.
My point, though, is that combat is her last line of defense; she's not going to be using suggestion on the PCs every session. She'll be spamming those only when she has no other choice. But when she does spam them, the PCs only have their (low) Will saves to protect them.
Few people have looked at the other villains and bemoan their lack of diplomacy/bluff/sense motive as a critical flaw. That's because of game style for a lot of people; they don't bat an eye at the effect of getting what amounts to a free souped up leadership by giving NPCs mooks and helpers without a feat or a skill use. Here, there's a mechanical justification for her adoring fans. (And, yes, a bad design choice not to give her leadership. Every bard needs roadies.)
And I love manipulator villains, so if you take charms and compulsions off the table, that really nerfs them. I can understand the table level issues; in my experience, players in long-running campaigns know each other well enough not to take compulsion-induced mayhem personally. And Sharina only works in a long-running campaign; she's not plug-and-play.
Clearly, this is a villain that works only at some people's tables. But my point is that the same can be said about the combat-oriented villains too. Sherina is different, not inferior, because of this.
As far as the critted by a long bow angle... well, that's going to happen less than 5 percent of the time at this level of PC. And a lot of these magic-based villains are killed by a simple anti-magic zone combined with a grapple. I'd be less vehement if I saw people critique a villain based on their vulnerability to their personal cryptonite too.
Is any other villain offering the deception/illusion/charm manipulator angle?
I just don't understand this character. I like the concept, and think she would work out great as that reoccurring npc that is unknowingly causing problems. I don't think she works as a part of the party, and the tactics section seals it for me.Ironically, Sharina is not a misdirected bard like Elan. She's evil, or pretty close to it, whether or not her alignment registers as such. While I could see her evolving as the campaign goes on, that's work that I, as a DM (did that slip out again? I meant GM) am gonna have to do. It's not in here. I would think that if people made it past the first round, they would have the next parts prepared ahead of time (contingency, anyone?).
I'm not saying that she is unknowingly causing problems. I just don't think she works well as a party NPC, which is presented as the ideal situation.
If I was to use her in a game, I would have her find out where the party is going next, beat the party to their next town, and start setting up the next situation that would further the party's fame. Sure, she might travel with the party once in a while, but she is going to require the time away from the party to set up all the wars and duping all those dragons. ;)
As a party member, she's a liability, and the group that I run for would drop her off at the closest village.
Most of this has already been said ...
No changes addressing the concerns raised last round about her ability to pull off her goals, or how to fit her into a party or showing up around the party without making the adventure a railroad.
Yes, I know she can grow, but there's no indication of how, and I just don't buy her pulling off her goals as she is now.
A "new" rules that isn't new ...
I'm disappointed in this one. Last round, I could see the villainy in her, though she did not get my vote, I was intrigued with what was going to come. And this just leaves me flat, and still feeling like my players are going to be forced along a path to make this villain work.
Sorry.
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Is any other villain offering the deception/illusion/charm manipulator angle?
Sure, Vashkar, the False Maharajah. He's got alternate form, change shape, detect thoughts, charm person & dominate. He's a rakshasa. Deception is what they do.
Being a manipulation type villain isn't why Sharina fails. The mojo just isn't here.
Sam
Hey - where is that? I couldn't find it?
And from folks who have playedmore than I have...does that hold up? Aren't all the characters (except Sharina) more powerful, so the CR should be about the same? What changes that dynamic?
NPCs have crap equipment (except at the very lowest levels), so it was always true that for example a level 12 fighter was a weak CR 12. My personal opinion is that PF RPG took a bit too far with -2, but I'm enthused about the likelihood of it being a -1 in the final.
Playtesting, NPCs are coming off a bit tough for their CR, but honestly closer than they were in 3.5E.
True. But that issue (the -2 level adjustment) if for the Playtest forum, so that should not be a factor here. :)
Reputation rang a bell
Thus, it in no way impresses me as something new.
And, comming directly from the SRD, none the less.
If it had come from an obscure 3rd party book (like say, something from Necromancer Games), then I could believe that you had just never seen it, but not if it comes directly form Paizo or the SRD link. :(
So, no. I couldn't vote for this one. Pity too.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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I don't have a lot to add here. Points for using a low-level villain, but I still feel that her goals outreach her abilities. I would have liked to see a note to the effect that she gains level along with the party, to explain how she accomplishes tasks beyond her current skill modifiers.
The reputation sub-system is interesting, but ultimately unnecessary - it can be replaced by circumstance modifiers with reduced bookkeeping. But imagine having it set and tracked will appeal to many gamers.
The Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven ending is an amusing nod, and could be a nice climax to mid-level campaign.
"The Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven ending is an amusing nod, and could be a nice climax to mid-level campaign."
Oh, I didn't realize that allusion until you pointed it out here. That's clever. I had thought he was going more for a "300 Spartans" sort of idea of holding the pass, since the Seven Samurai sort of worked with the villagers to defend the town rather than acting alone.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to comment on Sharina, and especially to those of you who voted for her. I am thrilled that I made it as far in the contest as I did, especially considering that Sharina is only the second Pathfinder character I've ever created! I knew that inexperience would burn me, and believe me, I'd rather it did now than in round 4!
I'm a little abashed for my ignorance regarding the armor and the reputation rules. But I must actually apologize for not putting more work into addressing some of the issues with Sharina that people commented on in round 2. I played it safe, unwilling to risk breaking what some people liked about her in the process of fixing what others didn't like. That was a mistake. Even if it had failed, it would have been better to make the attempt, and you deserved that after so many of you voted for her. So, my apologies.
It's been a great contest so far, and I'm so glad I was able to participate. Now I look forward to seeing what the top 8 do, and what villains they do it with. It'll be interesting to see if someone uses Sharina, but I won't hold my breath. :)
Thank you again.
Congratulations on your success! Sad that you can't advance farther this year, but you've still come a long way.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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"The Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven ending is an amusing nod, and could be a nice climax to mid-level campaign."
Oh, I didn't realize that allusion until you pointed it out here. That's clever. I had thought he was going more for a "300 Spartans" sort of idea of holding the pass, since the Seven Samurai sort of worked with the villagers to defend the town rather than acting alone.
Hmm. Nope, you got it right - I misconstrued that the party would be left holding the bag in the village with her gone. I actually like my way better :)
It's been a great contest so far....It'll be interesting to see if someone uses Sharina, but I won't hold my breath. :)
Thanks for creating such a memorable, unique, and fun villain, Carl. I salute you with sincere admiration. And take a deep breath. You can breathe easy... ;-)
--Neil
It's been a great contest so far....It'll be interesting to see if someone uses Sharina, but I won't hold my breath. :)Thanks for creating such a memorable, unique, and fun villain, Carl. I salute you with sincere admiration. And take a deep breath. You can breathe easy... ;-)
--Neil
I'm deeply honored. Good luck!