Am I the only one that feels cheated that we didn't get any Wayne Reynolds style half-orc lovin?
Half-orcs got some nice tweaks in the PFRPG, but I fear that the lack of an half-orc iconic is going to leave them woefully underrepresented on the art side of things.
Here' an idea, since it's too late to use one of the core classes, how about an half-orc assassin for the "prestige class" iconic? We got Seltyiel for our "multi-classed" iconic so the precedent has been set...sort of.
The last part does sound like a good idea, although "half orc lovin", of any style, doesn't sound too enticing...
Talking to the Choir with me, Half-Orcs should have been an Iconic, or they should have Racial Iconics not just the Speedo line up they have in Beta. Racial Iconics don't have to be huge full page images, but they would be nice in the final product both to give an alternative look (maybe go for a differnt gender/class concept) from the Class Iconics and give some love to the Orc.
AS for PC I don't like half-Orc as an assasian, but maybe a new PC for Orc/Half-Orc Gladiator, Horde Knight, Beserker?
Anyways in Agreement, TTFN DRE
The last part does sound like a good idea, although "half orc lovin", of any style, doesn't sound too enticing...
Well yes and no, I saw this thing once on You Tube that I couldn't take my eyes off that involved a Half-Orc. Then there was this time that I got drunk at ComicCon, she was big and green and it seemed like a good idea at the time.......
TTFN DRE
an half-orc assassin for the "prestige class" iconic?
Take a peek in the PFRPG prestige class download. The iconic assassin IS a half-orc.
Take a peek in the PFRPG prestige class download. The iconic assassin IS a half-orc.
Yeah, I've seen that image and it IS nice....but that doesn't make him an iconic. I doubt we'll see many of those prestige class representations again, much less used repeatedly over the course of an entire adventure path (and throughout various other products).
As for the half-orc lovin...you guys don't know what you're missing :-P
True, but I assumed the OP was asking for the full iconic treatment.
EDIT: Dangit, I'm still slow. Need more coffee.
And being drunk is hardly an endorsement for HOL, says I.
There won't be any more iconics, I fear. Plus, Sel's already the iconic PrCer, as he's an eldritch knight.
Good point, Kaeyoss--I think you've called it. Sneaky of them to dispatch both multi-class and prestige class in one iconic.
Am I the only one that feels cheated that we didn't get any Wayne Reynolds style *omitted for sanity* lovin?
Nope, I went to check out the PrC download art and I really missed seeing a big colored picture of each one. Even if it would be a big colored picture of a half orc.
BAH!
Half-orcs are too tall and they have pointy teeth!
If they were shorter and not so green they would rule!
Nope, I went to check out the PrC download art and I really missed seeing a big colored picture of each one. Even if it would be a big colored picture of a half orc.
I'm guessing the PrC art will be full color in the final book.
they should have Racial Iconics not just the Speedo line up they have in Beta. Racial Iconics don't have to be huge full page images
I have done this, I have a load of images, male and female of most of the races and human ethnicities to represent for my players. I could send any who wants this, its slightly altered, but it works for me to get across the appearances, in suitably WAR fashion mostly.
Obviously its mostly unnofficial, but the offer stands, I did the same with balors and pit fiends, actually I did work on the pit fiends, but mostly inacted simple cosmetic changes to actually make them look different.
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More on topic, a great female half-orc image is that of girddrez the savage duelist and the male half-orc from the cover of the eberron supplement Dragonmarked, that's two great takes on both of the half-orc sexes, perfectly WAR and girddrez is as large and fully detailed as any iconic image, you can get better and bigger versions than these, they just happens to be the official WAR website versions.
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Also, definately no dumping of Iconics, I love Valeros, and he has a t-shirt, and a persian races is much more in need of fantasy representation than an orc, as much as I'm a fan of big-upping the half-orcs, a half-orc with a great signifigance as a Pathfinder preferably should totally getted WAR for the fans, but the Iconics are finished, and magnificent. Leave well enough alone.
Same goes for a cool psion image or epic if those books come out.
Creative Director
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The prestige class art will indeed be full color in the final book. We didn't want to TOTALLY spoil things that early.
Also, it should be noted that one of the prestige class iconics IS already in the mix; Seltyiel is the iconic eldritch knight. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of seeing the half-orc assassin or the gnome arcane trickster or the human duelist showing up some day as pregenerated characters in Pathfinder adventure paths or modules—we've been a little hesitant on on level before doing this because we weren't super sure how prestige classes would work in the PF RPG, but more to the point, we haven't yet finished giving all the current 12 iconics their time in the spotlight.
The iconic assassin IS a half orc, and he DOES have a name and stats. We'll get to him eventually.
I would actually like Paizo take the time to give all your prestiege classes an Iconics treatment. To have an Iconic Character representing a prestiege class instead just Iconic artwork would give the prestiege classes a little more meaning. Also this would help to eliminate throw away prestige classes, because if Paizo as a company is not willing to spend the time and resources on building a character to go with the prestiege class then is the prestiege class really worth having?
For the record I love prestiege classes but I would rather seen meaningful prestiege classes over prestiege class bloat.
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The prestige class art will indeed be full color in the final book. We didn't want to TOTALLY spoil things that early.
<text ommited>
The iconic assassin IS a half orc, and he DOES have a name and stats. We'll get to him eventually.
Come on. Just a little sneak peak. Perhaps a color map for the B&W art?
So, my understanding of the prestige iconics is;
Arcane Archer:- Elf, long enough ears to be full-blooded
Arcane Trickster:- Gnome, on second look she does have the long skinny fingers and a somewhat lini-face but*
Assasin:- Half-orc, he's b@**~in, so b~#@$in in fact that he'll look good done up properly.
Dragon Disciple:- formerly human, never liked this prestige myself, but he looks good
Duelist:- human, she's AWESOME, hope she's Taldan, we could do with a good Taldan Iconic.
Eldritch Knight:- -Seltyiel- Sweet!
Loremaster:- Dwarf, Pretty cool actually
Mystic Theurge:- Human Priest of Nethys, as b%!@~in as Capt. Assasin.
Pathfinder Chronicler:- Human, I'm sure, but hopefully of an as of yet unrepresented ethnicity.
Shadowdancer:- Elf/Half?
Again, I'd have no problem with them getting big beautiful illustrations, but I'd rather they not get put into pathfinder AP or general artwork for quite some time, a small backstory and stats would be a great way to show an example of each one, but don't replace the existing iconics for years to come.
Keep Seltyiel though, he has a fan following among most of my PCs.
gnome arcane trickster
Please let her have gnomey colouration, also I would have loved to have seen a male Paizo gnome, because their so unique looking it'll be hard to replicate them visually.
Same with seeing a female dwarf insted of another male, but frankly I can use LFG's Pella (Best Female Dwarf ever!), so a male gnome is the big thing on my wishlist, preferably kept in line with the lini-style gnome, I want them to look like the same race as the iconic gnome, or I'll just have too hide the feet and call them halflings.
*crosses fingers*
We should dump Valeros for a half-orc fighter, or Kyra for a half-orc cleric.
Keep your hands off Val and Kyra. Or any of the other iconics. Sure, it sucks for half-orcs not to have an official representative, but you don't just scrap a character after a year and a half of screen time, including miniature treatment.
There's the iconic assassin, and maybe somewhere down the road, there will be new iconics, but until then Light Greens are out of luck.
The last part does sound like a good idea, although "half orc lovin", of any style, doesn't sound too enticing...That depends what the other half is. ;)
Nah. Once an orc is part of it, the whole thing's lost. Because, you know, orc. Could be orc/Venus, and it still would be disgusting. And orc/Eros would be even worse.
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Speaking of the Icons and their stat blocks, I have a question.
Why are the Adventure Path stats different from the module stats?
Here are the stats for Valeros at level 7:
Adventure Path
Str 16
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 8
Cha 10
Skills: Climb +10, Intimidate +10, Ride +13, Swim +7
8 Feats: Big Game Hunter, Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Longsowrd), Weapon Focus (Short Sword), Weapon Specialization (Longsword)
Module
Str 15
Dex 17
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 8
Cha 10
Skills: Climb +9, Intimidate +10, Ride +13, Swim +6
9 Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Two Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Longsword), Weapon Specialization (Longsword)
It is the same for the other Iconic Characters.
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Creative Director
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Come on. Just a little sneak peak. Perhaps a color map for the B&W art?The prestige class art will indeed be full color in the final book. We didn't want to TOTALLY spoil things that early.
<text ommited>
The iconic assassin IS a half orc, and he DOES have a name and stats. We'll get to him eventually.
Maybe when we get closer to the actual publication date. We're still like half a year away for now...
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Creative Director
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Speaking of the Icons and their stat blocks, I have a question.
Why are the Adventure Path stats different from the module stats?
Several reasons:
1) Different people work on the Adventure Path and the modules, and we don't have time to have them crosscheck each other. We both have a general idea of how a statblock should look, but we don't agonize about making them identical.
2) Errors; they creep in, and we catch most of them, but some slip through. When we catch them, we try to correct them the next time the stat block is printed, which results in discrepancies.
3) Different needs for different adventures. We tinker with the characters on purpose now and then when we use them in different modules and adventure. For Rise of the Runelords, for example, we gave all the characters bonus regional Varisia feats from the Player's Guide, which altered their stats. For Legacy of Fire, we're changing the types of spells prepared and probably the type of equipment they carry, since they'll have different worries in a subtropical/tropical desert/savannah setting than in Varisia.
4) Whimsy. When rebuilding Merisiel for Legacy of Fire, I vastly simplified the way her skill points were being spent to focus on the skills that she as a character would want, not on the skills that she needs to be a generic rogue.
As for the half-orc lovin...you guys don't know what you're missing :-P
Shelyn smiles upon you dear, beauty is in the eye of the beholder... no, I'm not saying beholders are beautiful, but everything can be made beautiful if it starts from the inside... okay beholders too... perhaps, if you ever find any good beholder.
<Explanations.>
I'm thinking a certain looseness in regard to the iconics is a good thing, anyway.
everything can be made beautiful if it starts from the inside
Nah, I'm not buying it. Beautiful, for me, is a very definite thing. I'm not saying that people or things that aren't beautiful are always bad or worthless, but a person that isn't beautiful but has a great character... well, that person has a great character, but is not beautiful.
Completely different things. Saying beauty can come from within is like saying that good looks or friendliness can affect your intelligence. "Sure, his IQ is only 80, but he has a perfect body, and is a really nice person, so it's actually closer to 110". Just. Doesn't. Work.
Beauty isn't Truth, either. Same goes for vice versa Things are the things they're supposed to be. Their worth isn't measured by making them something else.
And I think utterances like "True beauty comes from within!" just showcase that the person really is superficial and puts beauty above all else.
And yes, I know I'm a cynic. And no, that doesn't make me ugly. Only cynical! And no, I won't date that orc!!
And no, I won't date that orc!!
But the orc wants to date you! She has been asking about you non-stop. I couldn't help her because I don't know anything about you other than you being wicked, and cynical, but you should really give that orc a chance.
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But the orc wants to date you! She has been asking about you non-stop.
Oh, that's my new evil plan for when the good party let's the humanoid females and children live;
an orcish matron *stalker* who has fallen in love with the Paladin that rescued her from her abusive mate, and wants him to adopt her babies and take her away and make her a princess...|
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And no, I won't date that orc!!But the orc wants to date you! She has been asking about you non-stop. I couldn't help her because I don't know anything about you other than you being wicked, and cynical, but you should really give that orc a chance.
Maybe that's her thing; cynical, wicked people in clown makeup. You might be able to distract her with the Joker.
But the orc wants to date you!
I don't believe it. It's a trick or something.
She has been asking about you non-stop. I couldn't help her because I don't know anything about you other than you being wicked, and cynical, but you should really give that orc a chance.
Nah, I really shouldn't. I'm hate-filled, cynical, superficial, and prejudiced. That Chelish Cross beside my name's not just for show, you know.
Stuff like that takes massive amounts of time and energy, and Paizo already has their prestige iconics done in concept.
I think its unlikely.
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Personally, I don't like iconics. And also I somewhat resent the amount of space they take up in adventure material (particularly in the APs -- two godamned pages that could otherwise be cool PFRPG stuff; "put them in a web enhancement for the people that want them" although of course not everyone uses the web), although I understand why they are there (so, you know, I don't need an explanation of that; I just don't have any use for them myself whereas the space they occupy could have stuff I'd like a lot).
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that's my new evil plan for when the good party let's the humanoid females and children live;
an orcish matron *stalker* who has fallen in love with the Paladin that rescued her from her abusive mate, and wants him to adopt her babies and take her away and make her a princess...
LOVE
THAT !!
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Personally, I don't like iconics.
Seeing them reprinted over and over is a bit tiresome.
Generally, I like the idea (and it obviously saves a time and nuisance on art requests if you can send the artist a half dozen picture of Regdar and say, 'I need a picture of this dude being eaten by a Mind Flayer for the Book of Things With Brain-Penetrating Tentacles.'), but I didn't care for how WotC overused some Iconics and ignored others. After seeing 400, mostly flinch-inducingly scary, pictures of Mialee, the Iconic Elven Transvestite, I was really wondering what had ever happened to that other Iconic Wizard, Naull, the Mayan-looking Evoker.
Less Mialee, more
Kerwin. Less Jorzan, more Eberk. Less Gimble, more of insane lookin' dude.
Seoni, while not unattractive, is rapidly approaching 'Wolverine' status, and appearing on every cover. If she takes the Draconic Bloodline when she converts over to Pathfinder and starts smoking a cigar and saying 'bub,' the joke may have perhaps gone too far...
I like the iconics alot, and think they rotate fairly well, though I wouldn't mind more lini!
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Creative Director
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Well... once we start Council of Thieves, we'll be rebuilding the iconics entirely to go with the new PF RPG, so that'll carry us through Pathfinder #42. By the time we hit Pathifnder #43, and assuming I'm still editor in chief by that point, I'll probably look into doing something new with those pages. Perhaps that's a good time to grandfather in the prestige class iconics beyond Seltyiel? Or start making new iconics for all the new base classes we'll have by then, like ninja and dinosaur cultist and Darkland basketweaver! :P
Well... once we start Council of Thieves, we'll be rebuilding the iconics entirely to go with the new PF RPG, so that'll carry us through Pathfinder #42. By the time we hit Pathifnder #43, and assuming I'm still editor in chief by that point, I'll probably look into doing something new with those pages. Perhaps that's a good time to grandfather in the prestige class iconics beyond Seltyiel? Or start making new iconics for all the new base classes we'll have by then, like ninja and dinosaur cultist and Darkland basketweaver! :P
Well now you've gone and done it, we'll hold you to the Darkland Basketweaver.
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Or start making new iconics for all the new base classes we'll have by then, like ninja and dinosaur cultist and Darkland basketweaver! :P
I'm totally playing a dinosaur cultist! Will the Sleestak be available as a PC race by then?
And by 'ninja,' he meant *gninja.* Not only is the 'g' silent, it's also invisible!
Or start making new iconics for all the new base classes we'll have by then, like ninja and dinosaur cultist and Darkland basketweaver! :PI'm totally playing a dinosaur cultist! Will the Sleestak be available as a PC race by then?
And by 'ninja,' he meant *gninja.* Not only is the 'g' silent, it's also invisible!
You have openly discussed the secret of the hidden G. Now you die!
So at least four full PFRPG paths with the iconics? And at least until mid 2011?
I can live with that, by then I'll have a wealth of stuff on them. But make the prestige iconics just four more at first, then intersperse them among the existing ones for reference images.
Dont let the iconics die!
Dude, that actually sounds kinda hot. :D
Ugh! I prefer women - and creatures in general - non-smoking. I might condone it if someone is set on fire, but that's about it.
I just don't have any use for them myself whereas the space they occupy could have stuff I'd like a lot).
Well, that's true for most things. Some people hate the novellas. Some have no use for more monsters. Some don't want the set piece. Some think the editors should just shut up and free up that space on the first couple of pages.....
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Seoni, while not unattractive, is rapidly approaching 'Wolverine' status, and appearing on every cover.Seoni sells books though, so you're stuck with her. Won't here me complain about her being overused. :)
On that note.. I do need to send in my latest bribe for some more Seoni cover art. :)
i prefer Merisiel
so Iam happy when I see her coming in lots of covers :DI just don't have any use for them myself whereas the space they occupy could have stuff I'd like a lot).Well, that's true for most things. Some people hate the novellas. Some have no use for more monsters. Some don't want the set piece. Some think the editors should just shut up and free up that space on the first couple of pages.....
I agree... not everyone can be made happy
in generally i am happy with what i get in my APs... I just want Iomedae now, snif but I will have to wait for September
I agree... not everyone can be made happy
in generally i am happy with what i get in my APs... I just want Iomedae now, snif but I will have to wait for September
Huh? Where will we get her? Surely not in Legacy of Fire? I'd guess we see Serenrae and Rovagug there, or something like that.