The monkey is a 1/6th CR creature. Even templated, it's not very useful. In order to justify taking up room in the bestiary, I think a monkey should be an option for a familiar, granting a bonus on Sleight of Hand checks.
though I do agree and see the added benefits, I'm still going to laugh at the irony. :)
If opposable thumbs are a problem, then that alone could be their bonus (like how ravens just spoke in 3.5).
If opposable thumbs are a problem, then that alone could be their bonus (like how ravens just spoke in 3.5).
Maybe they give a +2 circumstance bonus to flinging poo?
Maybe an improved familiar since the increased intelligence lends itself to a lot of object manipulation.
A monkey would have the same Intelligence as any other familiar.
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Maybe an improved familiar since the increased intelligence lends itself to a lot of object manipulation.A monkey would have the same Intelligence as any other familiar.
But no other familiar would have opposable thumbs. I just foresee a lot of (magic)item use and crazy stuff going on. I know familiars are not as smart as their masters but they certainly have a leg up on their non-magical relatives.
Might be worth a feat for balance is all...
This is a great idea, especially the slight of hand bonus!
With a little hat and a cigar... though the opposable thumbs thing might be an issue. Maybe an improved familiar since the increased intelligence lends itself to a lot of object manipulation.
Well, theoretically, a raven familiar can talk, fly, and grip objects with the help of its hind toe claws. If being able to hold things was a problem, I'd think we'd have complaints about raven familiars carpet bombing battlefields with voice activated magic items already.
Well, theoretically, a raven familiar can talk, fly, and grip objects with the help of its hind toe claws. If being able to hold things was a problem, I'd think we'd have complaints about raven familiars carpet bombing battlefields with voice activated magic items already.This is a great idea, especially the slight of hand bonus!
With a little hat and a cigar... though the opposable thumbs thing might be an issue. Maybe an improved familiar since the increased intelligence lends itself to a lot of object manipulation.
While your point is funny, I think the idea is that a wizard with a monkey familiar ends up with a mini-me running around. An ape is close enough to human that he could use anything that a tiny humanoid could use. Probably not a big deal, true, but a possible issue. Really couldn't say without a few playtests, I think.
Edit: Ooh, you could teach them Drow Sign Language and they could then speak, too!
While your point is funny, I think the idea is that a wizard with a monkey familiar ends up with a mini-me running around. An ape is close enough to human that he could use anything that a tiny humanoid could use. Probably not a big deal, true, but a possible issue. Really couldn't say without a few playtests, I think.Edit: Ooh, you could teach them Drow Sign Language and they could then speak, too!
I apologize if I'm being overly flippant, and say "Thanks!" if that was a compliment on my humor skills!
I'm just trying to treat a discussion of monkey game balance with the gravitas it deserves. ^_-
Seriously, though, maybe I'm over-estimating the power of speech, but the section on familiar skills says "For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master’s skill ranks, whichever are better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar’s total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar’s ability to use." which suggests that if your wizard or sorcerer has enough ranks in Use Magic Device, their raven familiar can fly over the battlefield with a wand dropping fireballs. I'm not certain whether command words can be spoken in sign language (though I'd rule the language a command word is spoken in is chosen at the item's creation,) but even if they can, the raven can still fly.
Of course, this rule, "Regardless of a familiar’s total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar’s ability to use." suggests the game designers want DMs to feel comfortable saying, "Don't let's get crazy now." with our madcap raven and monkey ideas.
It is worth saying that I'm pretty sure you've been able to have a monkey in the non-core 3.5 rules for a while now. In Lords of Madness, there's an example NPC of the Fleshcrafter/Fleshwarper prestige class with a highly Frankensteinian monkey familiar. Since I'm reasonably sure the prestige class doesn't get 'Have a monkey (Ex)' as a class ability, someone with the book in front of them (unfortunately not me at the moment,) will need to check to see if the NPC has Improved Familiar. This will at least tell us if 3.5 think's it's balanced to have a monkey without a feat (for whatever that's worth.)
EDIT: By the way, this is not intended as a "Ravens rule, monkeys drool!" thing. I'd love to have a character with a monkey familiar, but I don't think it needs a feat and a minimum caster level.
Oh, wait, just checked the Pathfinder RPG book. They already have the monkey as a base familiar there, with a granted +3 bonus to acrobatics checks.
"Regardless of a familiar’s total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar’s ability to use."
This, basically, means that there are some skills that your familiar is physically incapable of using. For instance, a cat familiar cannot use Disable Device because it has paws instead of hands.
A monkey familiar, however, could do this. If you had a rogue/wizard character, the monkey could use Disable Device and Sleight of Hand, allowing your character to have double the "thief power."
This kind of thing has been known to happen in fantasy stories, though, so I wouldn't ban monkey familiars entirely. However, there should be something to balance the extra benefits.
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If you had a rogue/wizard character, the monkey could use Disable Device and Sleight of Hand, allowing your character to have double the "thief power."
This kind of thing has been known to happen in fantasy stories, though, so I wouldn't ban monkey familiars entirely. However, there should be something to balance the extra benefits.
Like coming home to find it smoking your cigars, and in bed with your wife?
"Regardless of a familiar’s total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar’s ability to use."
This, basically, means that there are some skills that your familiar is physically incapable of using. For instance, a cat familiar cannot use Disable Device because it has paws instead of hands.
To me, it also means "DM can veto things he/she thinks are silly/unworkable/overpowered." The DM can always say "A monkey's hands are good as the paws of an animal go, but they aren't going to play a beautiful piano concerto anytime soon." Personally, if I was the DM, I wouldn't say this, because I think a piano playing, lock picking, monkey familiar would be the bee's knees. But a DM can and has the right to do.
That said, I don't think that a monkey having the ability to tickle the ivories or pick locks is in the same level of game balance as the Improved Familiars' and their spell-like abilities.
Monkeys can't turn invisible, damage your con without a save, or throw lightning unless you stick a live wire in their poo.
Ha! I didn't even think to see if it was on the list already... That's awesome!
Ha! I didn't even think to see if it was on the list already... That's awesome!
hmmmm ravens with a wand of lightening bolts? hmmmm never occured to me, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm (muahaha)
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The DM can always say "A monkey's hands are good as the paws of an animal go, but they aren't going to play a beautiful piano concerto anytime soon." Personally, if I was the DM, I wouldn't say this, because I think a piano playing, lock picking, monkey familiar would be the bee's knees.
I think most of us have daydreamed about having a twelve-inch pianist.
Speaking of monkeys; I have been planning on having an NPC with a monkey familiar. The master was going to be old, senile and evil. In the final battle, hopefully after much fire power was expended, I was going to reveal that the monkey was the Warlock Master and the, probably dead by now Wizard, was the familiar. I may even have a good plan for the monkey to escape. Knowing my players, they should hate me.
EDIT: Somebody probably has this idea in an adventure soemwhere, but I have not seen it.
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Ha! I didn't even think to see if it was on the list already... That's awesome!hmmmm ravens with a wand of lightening bolts? hmmmm never occured to me, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm (muahaha)
Eh, it doesn't have lightning bolt on it's spell list, so it's a raven with a stick. Same with a monkey, for that matter.
Now if your familiar takes advantage of his increased intelligence to pick up a level of Wizard, everyhing changes...
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I have been planning on having an NPC with a monkey familiar. The master was going to be old, senile and evil. In the final battle, hopefully after much fire power was expended, I was going to reveal that the monkey was the Warlock Master and the, probably dead by now Wizard, was the familiar. I may even have a good plan for the monkey to escape.
Pure genius.
Speaking of monkeys; I have been planning on having an NPC with a monkey familiar. The master was going to be old, senile and evil. In the final battle, hopefully after much fire power was expended, I was going to reveal that the monkey was the Warlock Master and the, probably dead by now Wizard, was the familiar. I may even have a good plan for the monkey to escape. Knowing my players, they should hate me.
EDIT: Somebody probably has this idea in an adventure soemwhere, but I have not seen it.
Just make sure the monkey has Improved Familiar, to justify having a nonstandard familiar!
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Speaking of monkeys; I have been planning on having an NPC with a monkey familiar. The master was going to be old, senile and evil. In the final battle, hopefully after much fire power was expended, I was going to reveal that the monkey was the Warlock Master and the, probably dead by now Wizard, was the familiar. I may even have a good plan for the monkey to escape. Knowing my players, they should hate me.
EDIT: Somebody probably has this idea in an adventure soemwhere, but I have not seen it.
A certain Fighting Fantasy Gamebook had that little twist in the tail.
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EDIT: Somebody probably has this idea in an adventure soemwhere, but I have not seen it.
One of the main NPCs in my Freeport game was a familiar named Blackie. His master had failed his save vs. an Imprisonment spell and the familiar just kept on trucking. Thanks to a moderate Charisma score (12 or so), he had gained a couple levels of Sorcerer over the years, and used a Ring of Invisibility to avoid danger from larger predators.
The party would find notes left in places where nobody should have been able to get (but a Tiny animal with human level intelligence and invisibility had little difficulty accessing) and would occasionally a beggar boy would bring them a message from 'Blackie,' whose true identity was a mystery to everyone who worked for him (since he stayed invisible and always spoke from above, being up in rafters or on rooftops or in top floor windows, usually with at least one good getaway route available.
Eh, it doesn't have lightning bolt on it's spell list, so it's a raven with a stick. Same with a monkey, for that matter.Now if your familiar takes advantage of his increased intelligence to pick up a level of Wizard, everyhing changes...
To thee, I say "Eh nothing, my friend. Eh nothing." Rogues use wands all the time, and they have not a spell list at all.
All you need is enough ranks in Use Magic Device to reliably make a DC 20 check. See the SRD "Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill also applies to other spell trigger magic items, such as staffs."
Monkeys deserve ninja powerz and natural spell abilities like a 6d6 feces bolt (reflex save for 1/2 splatter). They should also get fresh fruit everyday and Cuban cigars twice weekly. Just sayin'
A flying monkey familiar would be classic.
And flying monkeys with two heads are even better!