Heh, once again, its 5:30 AM, and I'm posting without really having a reason why. Maybe I just wanted to log this new alias in, and this seemed like the best thread to do it in. Which is doubly ironic, considering the nature of the source of this name.
A cookie to whoever gets the reference of the name. Here's two hints: A metamagic feat that raises the level by two, and an artist who did some work on the Gen13 comic.
Bah! I need no cookie granting hint, foolish jackanapes! Verily, the chronicles of the heroine-super are known to me, let alone the antics of the boy of thug and Ninjette nubilous!
Empowered is teh awesome.
Not at all; this 'fantasy' genre started with pulp fiction.I have a soft spot for sappy romance.Nice one. I think it's time to leaf it alone though now, branch out into other topics.
I think it's time to leaf this one alone, because, if we're not getting to the root of the problem, we're just barking up the wrong tree.
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I think it's time to leaf this one alone, because, if we're not getting to the root of the problem, we're just barking up the wrong tree.Not at all; this 'fantasy' genre started with pulp fiction.I have a soft spot for sappy romance.Nice one. I think it's time to leaf it alone though now, branch out into other topics.
I have to disagree; it leads to great literature.
Where would Poe be if he wasn't pining for his lost Lenore?
The loving depiction of Zon-Kuthon by Paizo is surely much more of an issue than Seoni's dress and cleavage (but that is, and probably has been, the subject of another thread) and even that is, I dunno, rating 12 (per the UK film ratings, may only be seen by children aged 12 and over).
(I'm not suggesting that the depiction of Zon-Kuthon is a problem, mind - just pointing out the slight absurdity of what does, and what doesn't, set off the fulminations of the cyber-sex patrol.)
What makes it on the cover is usually a factor. There's also the whole images forced upon "unwilling" recipient standard; in American law, that applies to billboards, which have different standards than magazines, which have to be sought out. Here, the email sending is rather more like the billboard than the magazines. (You might have bought a 2 buck DCC and gotten the email.)
The other factor is that images like Seoni tick people off because they connect to various issues around how media imagery play one role in promoting bulemia, anorexia and other eating disorders. Just because it's about sexualized imagery, doesn't mean it's only about sex or sexism. The bondage stuff has a different set of concerns,* so I'm not surprised that kink—and from a villain god—doesn't set off the kind of alarm bells that Seoni, a heroine and iconic, might.
As far as Zon-Kuthon goes, I took one look at that and decided I'd not be having any of this Terry Goodkind-esque "bondage god" nonsense in my fantasy gaming. I'd look it up to give a fuller reading, but the kittens are asleep on my gaming trunk and I am reluctant to wake them.
Although I might use Zon in the single player campaign I DM. It's so hard to imagine him with more than a cult or two that he might actually prove useful to me. The main conceit of that campaign is that gods with ridiculously narrow appeals must gain faith share or lose their divinity. The deity of the aranea has made an appearance, as has the god of insects, while the god of cannibalism has already bit the dust right along with the god of a minor nation. Zon-Kuthon would fit right in as a demi-god with limited appeal, right next to Lamashtu, who's only got monstrous and malformed births in my campaign's portfolio... for now. (Monstrous as in "OMG, that's wrong!", not as in goblins or gnolls giving birth.)
*For my course on images of disability, I teach the film Sick: The Life and Death of Bob Flanagan, Supermasochist. Trust me: that kind of kink switches up people's habitual feelings about acceptable representation of violence and sex fairly quickly.
There's no need to get overly defensive because some one wants to critically examine your favorite iconic characters.
http://montecook.livejournal.com/150303.html
Monte Cook's post on race and gender in gaminghttp://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/05/05/fantasy-and-science-fictio n-bingo-no-racism-in-fiction-edition/
Alas a blog's scifi/fantasy bingo, racism addition.if any of your arguments can be found on that bingo sheet but in the context of sexuality, you might want to re think your point.
I don't know about the latter statement, as it's a bit of an over-reach, but thanks for the links and the sentiment. I sometimes wonder if people would be so protective of Paizo if it weren't for 4e.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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What i have a hard time grasping here is how so many forum regulars can't understand the purposed of simple analysis .
There's no need to get overly defensive because some one wants to critically examine your favorite iconic characters.
Lighten up a bit every one, you might learn something.
I suggest reading "the second sex" or "the history of sexuality" to get a better grasp on what the purpose of a review of sexuality is.
if reading two large texts is a bit much, i'll leave you with two links
What makes you think we haven't read Foucault and de Beauvoir already and still disagree with rather simplistic critiques that assume fairly uncomplicated and unalterable connections between male desire and oppression of women? In fact, I think a good reading of either of those texts would complicate the analysis in question.
What makes you think we haven't read Foucault and de Beauvoir already and still disagree with rather simplistic critiques that assume fairly uncomplicated and unalterable connections between male desire and oppression of women? In fact, I think a good reading of either of those texts would complicate the analysis in question.
well sexuality is a complicated thing to begin with, that's why it always begs analysis IMO. I never made a judgment about male desire and female oppression, I simply tried to say that a discussion shouldn't be "You're so wrong and i'll tell you why" fest. We should actually absorb what other people have to say and then reply rationally.
the only thing that made me think that de Beauvoir and Foucault weren't common reads on this board was the type of response most people had to the issue. there seemed to be an angered reply from most of this board, not a interesting-point-but-here's-my-opinion style of reply.
sorry about the tone of my original reply, i was a little taken back by some posters' comments and might have dabbed in an overly condescending attitude.
I don't know about the latter statement, as it's a bit of an over-reach, but thanks for the links and the sentiment. I sometimes wonder if people would be so protective of Paizo if it weren't for 4e.There's no need to get overly defensive because some one wants to critically examine your favorite iconic characters.
http://montecook.livejournal.com/150303.html
Monte Cook's post on race and gender in gaminghttp://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/05/05/fantasy-and-science-fictio n-bingo-no-racism-in-fiction-edition/
Alas a blog's scifi/fantasy bingo, racism addition.if any of your arguments can be found on that bingo sheet but in the context of sexuality, you might want to re think your point.
I'm just here to talk about Seoni. One thing that I am taking from this discussion is a set of ideas to give her more of a role in my hypothetical campaign. Of course, I may have to drastically alter her story, especially if I decide to adapt Golarion to a space opera setting.
I don't really see an issue here in these posts. Nobody except for D7 seems to be offended, and after reading D7's racism blog, I have to conclude that while other people may have issues with other works, D7 is just a guy trying to apologize for being a priviledged white male.
Classic example -- criticizing Seoni for being white? 1) Apparently different people see Seoni differently. To me she looks to be of indeterminate race. It might just be the way the colors are set up on the monitor. I have to monitors, and now that I look at her face on the left monitor, she definitely looks anglo-saxon white, but on my right monitor she looks more mixed race.
2) What's wrong with being white? I can imagine how insulted black or brown or purple people would feel if someone said "We can not have a black/brown/purple person in this role." Why is it alright then to say "We can not have a white person in this role"? If I am portraying one character and decide to make her Bangladeshi, is that a slight to the Burmese?
Now having argued that D7 has no point, I'll continue with what I find interesting about this picture.
I would not say that I am offended by Seoni being drawn looking like a porn star. In fact, I very much like her that way. But being somewhat of a realist (in a fantasy game -- that should be enough irony to male full plate for an ogre), I have to wonder, not just about Seoni, but about how most of the women in fantasy worlds are drawn. I'm just throwing around ideas, some of which I am trying to work into my own drawings, even though I only have about three ranks in the Craft (Drawing) skill.
Someone suggested that as a sorceress, Seoni has spells to enhance her attributes. Problem with that theory is that in 3.x, Sorcerers have a very limited list of spells known. If she has the Read Scroll feat, she can buy and use a magic scroll, or pay someone else for a spell, scroll, potion, etc.
This could make an interesting concept for a Cinderella-type story. Might not be suitable for every gaming group, or even very many gaming groups. But I will have to file that idea away for future reference...
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For me it's as easy as that: apart from the x-mas accessoires Seoni wore the same outfit, when she stood together with Merisiel and Kyra against a white dragon defending a bleeding Valeros laying helpless in the snow.
So if you felt offended by the way Valeros was presented on the cover of Pathfinder #5 you've every right to feel offended by the way she is presented in the x-mas mail. If not you should think about double standards (which I think Paizo has succeeded to avoid so far).
I sometimes wonder if people would be so protective of Paizo if it weren't for 4e.
Respectfully I disagre. What does this have to do with 4E? Paizo was a great company long before 4E started. If someone treats them unfair (and to even hint at them being sexist or racist qualifies for unfair treatment given their products so far) why shouldn't we not protect them? Though I agree we don't need to get offending to do so.
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I can see Cheliax being very prude, proper, and sexually repressed in public and no holds barred behind closed doors. I can see anit-immorality inquisitions breaking down doors of those out of favor while the nobles are throwing orgies on the other end of town.
Lawful Evil: have your cake and eat it too. In private.
This sounds painfully similar to a North American country I happen to know...
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I just want to step in for a second. I have to say it seems a shame fantasy RPGs must oppress women sexually. It is far more acceptable to just kill them, splatter their guts everywhere and show it all over prime time TV, rather than promote natural sexuality.
So let's here it for the mindless promotion of violence and mayhem over natural sexuality
(Yes this was dripping with sarcasm, as it seems some people have their priorities mixed up, but oh well- and flame all you want I won't be back to this topic to listen to a bunch of whiners).
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Dingo, what exactly is your point? Do you even have one? I think I pointed out that this is an eye of the beholder thing. But I disagree that if a single individual finds something offensive, then it should be condemned as "offensive" generally. As you then go on to point out yourself.Whether this amounts to peddling Kiddie-porn or catering to the Paedophile market is never going to be down to the likes of you, Aubrey. In the end it comes down to the concept of the Commonwealth. If one finds it offensive and suspect then that is enough to condemn it.
But then again, if we were to raise the issue of outlawing the works of Aristotle for being a kiddie fiddler and start burning his books...and we would be called a Nazi.
Conceivably in this modern Tyranny, It takes the displeasure of the Tyrant, or the mob.
If tomorrow, the mob found the bare midrift of a certain Golarion barbarian with the meat cleaver the size of a grader blade "threatening to Women", Paizo might find itself on shakey ground.
But then again, if we were to raise the issue of outlawing the works of Aristotle for being a kiddie fiddler and start burning his books...and we would be called a Nazi.
Great. Now I have to add nazis to my Seoni/Santa crossover fanfic idea. What next? Mutant pirate dinosaurs?
(I don't think the Godwin's Law applies, as I don't think there is any productive content to this thread in the first place. I probably won't even write the fanfic. I've already done a Ravenloft/Nazi crossover.)
I sometimes wonder if people would be so protective of Paizo if it weren't for 4e.Respectfully I disagre. What does this have to do with 4E? Paizo was a great company long before 4E started. If someone treats them unfair (and to even hint at them being sexist or racist qualifies for unfair treatment given their products so far) why shouldn't we not protect them? Though I agree we don't need to get offending to do so.
Since this is not about the issue, I feel like I can clarify my post while trying to stop posting on this issue. I feel that if there weren't the (somewhat justified) "Last, Best Hope" perception around Paizo, there'd be less of an impulse to close ranks or at least a different response to issues like these, like the grotesqueries in Carnival of Tears (my favorite standalone module), or the use of mainland Chinese printers. I may be wrong, but I've seen references to this perception of Paizo (and not devotees of, say, Goodman Games or another publisher) over on EnWorld.
It was a thought, at best.
To all "What was the rant about?" posters...I was actually started on said rant by the Seoni/Santa thing. I just assumed everyone would pick up the context from the hivemind. My bad.
Wait...intruders in the hive! Eliminate! Destroy! Biff!
I just want to step in for a second. I have to say it seems a shame fantasy RPGs must oppress women sexually. It is far more acceptable to just kill them, splatter their guts everywhere and show it all over prime time TV, rather than promote natural sexuality.
I tell you why that is: It's because of them damn feminists. Wanna know why? All the violence and splatter and stuff is usually against men. Women are conveniently spared because it's not sporting to attack women and children - but an unarmed salesclerk is fair game. Funny that they don't run around and demand that women are killed as brutally. About that, they're conveniently silent! But they love to see men brutally murdered. Because they hate men. Pass me the salt shakress.
Seriously, though: That's mainly an American thing I think: Show violence in prime time movies, show violence in the morning news, show violence in children's computer games, show violence in baby books (let me just switch off the exaggeration radar, the constant beeping gives me headaches) and no one bats an eye. But show a nipple anywhere, and parents start to arm themselves. The GTA hot coffee incident is a prime example.
You can argue, though, whether the opposite isn't worse. That's what happens in Germany. Some chick taking off her clothes in a 6pm "science" show because they want to test if saunas are healthy? Go right ahead. No need to cut the part where she takes off everything and puts on the towel, seeing her breasts is probably quite important for this spot! But have a computer game where you can kill something? Oh my god! The kids will run amok! Our schools will be flooded with blood! Ban it! Censor it! Make even thinking about it a crime! (note that this isn't that much of an exaggeration - they wanted to ban every game where you can kill someone, and ban them for everyone)
Seems people have real problems getting out of the black-and-white thinking. Either they're for something, or against. No middle ground.
Of course, not everyone is so, but apparently, the genes that make you colour blind to shades of gray also make you good politicians or something.
Great. Now I have to add nazis to my Seoni/Santa crossover fanfic idea.
I can help. Let me do the voices. You Americans really suck at this. Every time some american actor (especially in TV series - apparently for some movies they can take the time to find actual speakers or someone who can make it sound at least vaguely like a native speaker) in a movie or show tries to speak German, I have to turn on subtitles, or switch from English to German, just to understand what they say.
Well, I guess it's like that with every language, but I don't know every language.
Anyway, here's the first couple of lines!
"Ihr da, schießt diesen fetten Mann sofort ab! Er hat die streng geheimen Geschenke dabei!"
"Jawohl Herr Kommandant!"
"Und ihr passt auf dass diese Donnerechsen uns nicht wieder in den Rücken fallen. Gestern hat ein Scharfzahn eine ganze SS-Battalion aufgerieben. Holt die Panzerfäuste mit!"
"Oh nein! Die Saurier bekommen Luftunterstützung! Ruft die Luftwaffe!"
That's what I call a crossover!
2) What's wrong with being white?
Well, apparently diversity means that regardless of the actual ethnic composition, at least 50% of all people shown must belong to minorities. Minorities must be in the majority. Doesn't matter whether it makes sense or not if those minorities are present, it has to be done. You better have at least one black Eskimo or we'll sue ya!
combined with the constant perception of D&D as primarily a game for 9-14 year olds.
D&D maybe (though they seem to aim towards 5-9 year olds these days), but not Pathfinder.
If you let your kids use Pathfinder stuff and no red flags are raised until Seoni is shown fondling a candy cane, there are bigger problems than your children being exposed to smut. It's your children being exposed to crappy parenting.
For the second, ick, and everyone else's particular limit on ick. Go too far and you lose customers, simple as that.
Paizo has survived Nick's Torture Porn, a Seoni shown pretty much as she has been shown since day one won't make customers leave in troves.
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Well, apparently diversity means that regardless of the actual ethnic composition, at least 50% of all people shown must belong to minorities. Minorities must be in the majority. Doesn't matter whether it makes sense or not if those minorities are present, it has to be done. You better have at least one black Eskimo or we'll sue ya!
I feel that, as a left-handed person, I've been unfairly singled out by doors constructed with the handles on the wrong side and cars with their gear shifts located all the way across my body all of my life.
We need more southpaw representation! We're like, 10% of the population! We demand 75% of the Iconics be made into lefties to correct the past injustices heaped upon us by the oppressive rightiocracy!
Also, more *fat* Iconics. The Iconic Ninja needs to top 240, so as not to portray an unrealistic or unhealthy body image to potential young ninja readers out there.
Won't someone please think of the ninja?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Set,
As an aside this has been a snarky element I've used for years. Where are the left handed role models? Why can I find a list of GBLT superheroes, but no list of left handed ones? Thunderstrike is the only lefty I know of. How am I to have self respect if Batman, Superman, and Wonderwoman are all right handed?
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Well, apparently diversity means that regardless of the actual ethnic composition, at least 50% of all people shown must belong to minorities. Minorities must be in the majority. Doesn't matter whether it makes sense or not if those minorities are present, it has to be done. You better have at least one black Eskimo or we'll sue ya!I feel that, as a left-handed person, I've been unfairly singled out by doors constructed with the handles on the wrong side and cars with their gear shifts located all the way across my body all of my life.
We need more southpaw representation! We're like, 10% of the population! We demand 75% of the Iconics be made into lefties to correct the past injustices heaped upon us by the oppressive rightiocracy!
Also, more *fat* Iconics. The Iconic Ninja needs to top 240, so as not to portray an unrealistic or unhealthy body image to potential young ninja readers out there.
Won't someone please think of the ninja?
OK I made another appearance sorry :)
But lefties are just plain evil after all :) Lol (just teasing)
ANd yeah, damnit, if we are going to be all about equal representation AND especially if you want your target market to idetify with your product there really should be more iconics that are obese, have long unwashed hair, scraggily facial hair, and a definitive sense of self doubt and lack of confidence but unusual intelligence. Where are those iconics that *I* can identify with?
DOWN WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT! BURN THEM ALL!
... but can I have a cookie first?
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Set,
As an aside this has been a snarky element I've used for years. Where are the left handed role models? Why can I find a list of GBLT superheroes, but no list of left handed ones? Thunderstrike is the only lefty I know of. How am I to have self respect if Batman, Superman, and Wonderwoman are all right handed?
I think Dexter is our main role model.
Which may be code for 'kill alla righties.'
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Set,
As an aside this has been a snarky element I've used for years. Where are the left handed role models? Why can I find a list of GBLT superheroes, but no list of left handed ones? Thunderstrike is the only lefty I know of. How am I to have self respect if Batman, Superman, and Wonderwoman are all right handed?
I think Dexter is our main role model.
Which may be code for 'kill alla righties.'
Dexter is close, but ya gott add the Poin before the name.
ANd yeah, damnit, if we are going to be all about equal representation AND especially if you want your target market to idetify with your product there really should be more iconics that are obese, have long unwashed hair, scraggily facial hair, and a definitive sense of self doubt and lack of confidence but unusual intelligence. Where are those iconics that *I* can identify with?
"He be called Harsk, ya elf-lovin' sorry beardless excuse for a dwarf!"
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ANd yeah, damnit, if we are going to be all about equal representation AND especially if you want your target market to idetify with your product there really should be more iconics that are obese, have long unwashed hair, scraggily facial hair, and a definitive sense of self doubt and lack of confidence but unusual intelligence. Where are those iconics that *I* can identify with?"He be called Harsk, ya elf-lovin' sorry beardless excuse for a dwarf!"
WHO YOU CALLIN BEARDLESS!?!?! You itchin for fight????
*ponders* and who ya callin elf lovin? Well ok they are good for a quick tumble if you can get past the splinters... but that is all they are good for...
I'm all for cheesecake images... as long as occasional beefcake images also show up. I'm all for an increase in the beefcake images, btw, though I understand that for some reason cheesecake sells better than beefcake. It's a shame really.
- Ashavan
ANd yeah, damnit, if we are going to be all about equal representation AND especially if you want your target market to idetify with your product there really should be more iconics that are obese, have long unwashed hair, scraggily facial hair, and a definitive sense of self doubt and lack of confidence but unusual intelligence. Where are those iconics that *I* can identify with?"He be called Harsk, ya elf-lovin' sorry beardless excuse for a dwarf!"WHO YOU CALLIN BEARDLESS!?!?! You itchin for fight????
*ponders* and who ya callin elf lovin? Well ok they are good for a quick tumble if you can get past the splinters... but that is all they are good for...
"YOU! Ya beardless git. All this whinin' about Seoni's boobies and ya never think tuh ask 'Where be her beard?'. She be dressed as Santa and she ain't got no beard? Now THAT is offensive!!"
I'm all for cheesecake images... as long as occasional beefcake images also show up. I'm all for an increase in the beefcake images, btw, though I understand that for some reason cheesecake sells better than beefcake. It's a shame really.
- Ashavan
"It be called 'beardcake' and yer lookin' at it!"
"YOU! Ya beardless git. All this whinin' about Seoni's boobies and ya never think tuh ask 'Where be her beard?'. She be dressed as Santa and she ain't got no beard? Now THAT is offensive!!"ANd yeah, damnit, if we are going to be all about equal representation AND especially if you want your target market to idetify with your product there really should be more iconics that are obese, have long unwashed hair, scraggily facial hair, and a definitive sense of self doubt and lack of confidence but unusual intelligence. Where are those iconics that *I* can identify with?"He be called Harsk, ya elf-lovin' sorry beardless excuse for a dwarf!"WHO YOU CALLIN BEARDLESS!?!?! You itchin for fight????
*ponders* and who ya callin elf lovin? Well ok they are good for a quick tumble if you can get past the splinters... but that is all they are good for...
"C'mon, soft-palm. Don't ya be hidin' in other threads. Get back 'ere."
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"YOU! Ya beardless git. All this whinin' about Seoni's boobies and ya never think tuh ask 'Where be her beard?'. She be dressed as Santa and she ain't got no beard? Now THAT is offensive!!"ANd yeah, damnit, if we are going to be all about equal representation AND especially if you want your target market to idetify with your product there really should be more iconics that are obese, have long unwashed hair, scraggily facial hair, and a definitive sense of self doubt and lack of confidence but unusual intelligence. Where are those iconics that *I* can identify with?"He be called Harsk, ya elf-lovin' sorry beardless excuse for a dwarf!"WHO YOU CALLIN BEARDLESS!?!?! You itchin for fight????
*ponders* and who ya callin elf lovin? Well ok they are good for a quick tumble if you can get past the splinters... but that is all they are good for...
SON OF A FEMALE DOG!
I am so ashamed!
I was distracted by those pleasing breasts and never realized she had no beard! I just sort of saw it in my mind's eye...
*sob*
I don't WANT to be an elf lover... really I don't!
You can argue, though, whether the opposite isn't worse. That's what happens in Germany. Some chick taking off her clothes in a 6pm "science" show because they want to test if saunas are healthy? Go right ahead. No need to cut the part where she takes off everything and puts on the towel, seeing her breasts is probably quite important for this spot! But have a computer game where you can kill something? Oh my god! The kids will run amok! Our schools will be flooded with blood! Ban it! Censor it! Make even thinking about it a crime! (note that this isn't that much of an exaggeration - they wanted to ban every game where you can kill someone, and ban them for everyone)
Well, rumor has it that the Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle consists mainly of old geezers - I imagine that they won´t object to sexuality out of their own interests. Honestly, showing breasts on TV is nothing to get enraged about IMO, at least not since the were treated to the awful "Tutti Frutti" show many years ago. Showing "Last Tango in Paris" uncut on TV might raise some protest - then again, maybe not anymore.
Violence is a very touchy topic in Germany, although I don´t know why - it surely is as common as elsewhere.
Stefan
Chief Technical Officer
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I feel that, as a left-handed person, I've been unfairly singled out by doors constructed with the handles on the wrong side and cars with their gear shifts located all the way across my body all of my life.
We need more southpaw representation! We're like, 10% of the population! We demand 75% of the Iconics be made into lefties to correct the past injustices heaped upon us by the oppressive rightiocracy!
I believe a couple of the Pathfinder iconics are left-handed, but *I'm* not about to "out" them. (I mean, not that there's anything wrong with that...)
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I feel that, as a left-handed person, I've been unfairly singled out by doors constructed with the handles on the wrong side and cars with their gear shifts located all the way across my body all of my life.
Speaking as a British person who is right-handed, I would say that it is American gear shifts that are on the wrong side. Gear shifting should be done with the left hand, leaving the stronger right hand (for those of us that aren't eebil defective lefties) for the wheel.
I feel that, as a left-handed person, I've been unfairly singled out by doors constructed with the handles on the wrong side and cars with their gear shifts located all the way across my body all of my life.
Speaking as someone who has driven both left-hand and right-hand drive vehicles, it's only a bit harder to switch when the vehicle is a manual transmission. As far as doors go, half the time the handle's on the wrong side, anyway (it all depends on if you're entering or exiting).
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Speaking as someone who has driven both left-hand and right-hand drive vehicles, it's only a bit harder to switch when the vehicle is a manual transmission. As far as doors go, half the time the handle's on the wrong side, anyway (it all depends on if you're entering or exiting).
Are you trying to be *reasonable* in a manufactured outrage hissy-fit thread? What's wrong with you, man, this is the *Internet!*
Speaking as someone who has driven both left-hand and right-hand drive vehicles, it's only a bit harder to switch when the vehicle is a manual transmission. As far as doors go, half the time the handle's on the wrong side, anyway (it all depends on if you're entering or exiting).Are you trying to be *reasonable* in a manufactured outrage hissy-fit thread? What's wrong with you, man, this is the *Internet!*
I got most of the flames out of my system in the Usenet newsgroups back in the '90s.
I just want to step in for a second. I have to say it seems a shame fantasy RPGs must oppress women sexually. It is far more acceptable to just kill them, splatter their guts everywhere and show it all over prime time TV, rather than promote natural sexuality.I tell you why that is: It's because of them damn feminists. Wanna know why? All the violence and splatter and stuff is usually against men. Women are conveniently spared because it's not sporting to attack women and children - but an unarmed salesclerk is fair game. Funny that they don't run around and demand that women are killed as brutally. About that, they're conveniently silent! But they love to see men brutally murdered. Because they hate men. Pass me the salt shakress.
So we're saying that the ONLY two ways to depict women in fantasy is being slaughtered or by promoting "naturally sexuality"? Who's thinking in black and white again?
It is extremely closed minded to offer such an alternative when someone points out the sexism inherent in marketing. I won't go into feminist issues because they won't be appreciated by this audience, but keep in mind that women do, in fact, have more options than being a model or fat, stabbed, ugly, blood covered pile of mess.
It is extremely closed minded to offer such an alternative when someone points out the sexism inherent in marketing. I won't go into feminist issues because they won't be appreciated by this audience, but keep in mind that women do, in fact, have more options than being a model or fat, stabbed, ugly, blood covered pile of mess.
I think we should distinguish between the feminists, who just want equality between men and women, and the _ultrafeminists_, who want to enslave men and make sure that women control all the magic and men are never trained in such arts -- they may be used for combat, especially as "meat shields", but must be kept under strict control by their mistresses. Anything more powerful than a cantrip or maybe a 1st level spell should be kept out of the hands of men.
Not that there is anything wrong with that, but we should make sure to keep our perspectives clear and our terms accurate.
Hmmm...let's steer things in a different direction. Modern issues of sexuality aside, what issues spring to mind regarding sexuality in a setting that has half-dragons, half-fiends, half-this and a little that...
There seems to be bigger issues potentially than a great set of hoohaws.
Dwarf. Women. Don't. Have. Beards.
So we're saying that the ONLY two ways to depict women in fantasy is being slaughtered or by promoting "naturally sexuality"? Who's thinking in black and white again?
I'm thinking in purple.
Plus, I was joking.
Feel free to ignore that and bash me.
And if you are joking, too, I'm sorry for not getting it. I think my face will turn red now, preventively.
Honestly, showing breasts on TV is nothing to get enraged about IMO
No, it isn't. Not inherently. I have no problem with nekkid women (and men) in TV. But I do think it should have at least some purpose (other than increasing the audience rating by being the "watch us, we got t***" show.)
What I'm saying is that if we're not touchy at all about nudity, why so ultry-touchy about violence?
Showing "Last Tango in Paris" uncut on TV might raise some protest - then again, maybe not anymore.
Not familiar with the movie, but from what I gather from the Wikipedia entry, it had more than just topless women.
So don't show it on TV before 22:00 or even midnight.
Violence is a very touchy topic in Germany, although I don´t know why - it surely is as common as elsewhere.
Definetly. I haven't looked into this too closely, no other "western culture" country (and maybe no other country, period) has restrictions like we have.
Do the others have a lot more violent crimes and school massacres? Wouldn't think so.
Conversely, does the USA have a lot less sexual crimes than the rest of the world? Wouldn't bet the farm on it.
We need more southpaw representation!
Quiet, you lefty dissident! Without Right-Handed Elbonia, you'd be nothing!
Also, more *fat* Iconics. The Iconic Ninja needs to top 240, so as not to portray an unrealistic or unhealthy body image to potential young ninja readers out there.
Dude, we're talking about ninjas here. They don't submit to this touchy-feely-PC-crap. If you're a ninja and your BMI goes over 25, the other ninjas will kill you.
Funny that a conversation about sexuality transformed into a conversation about handedness. I'll leave you guys alone a little while longer, but come out for lunch, okay?
I came here just to say "Snow Elf"
When do they get their own centrfol.... I mean Gazetteer?