There's only 2 pieces of equipment I really don't like in the 3.5 rules. First, is the animated property for shields (which is for the magic item discuessions). Second, is the spiked chain.
The flavor for this weapon is horrible and it's game mechanics are far too good, even at the price of a feat. This weapon has reach, threatens in the entire area it has reach too, can be used against adjacent targets, can be used as a two-handed weapon, can be used as a double-weapon for two-weapon fighting, can be used to trip, gains +2 to disarm attempts, and is finessable.
To top it off, a character at higher levels with a moderate strength (14 to 18 range) who finesses this weapon will likely make better use of power attack than real strong fighter types due to the way power attack now works.
This is crazy. Either improve other exotic weapons or cut the spiked chain down a bit. I'd like to see it removed completely as I really don't care for the idea of someone trying to swing a chain in combat effectively, but that's not likely. Instead, at least consider not allowing the spike chain to threaten beyond the base range of the creature weilding it.
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My preference is to just cut it down to more normal damage ranges, but keep the special features.
A 'standard' weighted chain weapon does 1d6 B. A hook on the end of a chain weapon does 1d4 L, but gives the +2 to trip and disarm.
With those numbers, I think it's a little better balanced. It still has the cool utility, but isn't quite as amazing with 2d4 damage.
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The flavor for this weapon is horrible and it's game mechanics are far too good, even at the price of a feat. This weapon has reach, threatens in the entire area it has reach too, can be used against adjacent targets, can be used as a two-handed weapon, can be used as a double-weapon for two-weapon fighting, can be used to trip, gains +2 to disarm attempts, and is finessable.
OK lets compare abilities side by side with others and see how it stacks up.
Spiked chain is used two-handed, has reach and can trip.
Guisarme is used two-handed, has reach and can trip.
For a feat you get to use the Spiked chain and beside its mundane uses listed above you get to use the spiked chain against adjacent foes, and can use it as a double-weapon and you get +2 to disarm attempts. For an additional feat you can use it finessable.
For the use of a feat those few additional uses do not seem too bad. Especially since the crit modifier is only x2, while all other Exotic Weapons have x3 or better.
Let's look at the Dire Flail, the only other x2 crit Exotic Weapon. It is a double weapon, or can be used one handed as a light weapon. +2 to disarm an enemy. Can be used for trip attacks. This looks pretty even to the Spiked Chain.
So all in all, since most exotics are doubles, have fantastic damage and crit values and/or have cool uses, I say Spiked Chain is right in the middle of the power use.
I think this is a Balanced weapon when you look back. It has been abused and alot of players have bad feelings about it
I personally love the spiked chain. Despite it's obvious advantages I have found that not a lot of people that I game with use it at all. I wonder why that is?? I think because it does require the use of a feat in most cases. I played a pc who took a feat to use the spiked chain and a friend of mine thought I was crazy to spend a feat just to use a weapon. Well he thought I was crazy until he seen me kicking major booty with it.
I personally love the spiked chain. Despite it's obvious advantages I have found that not a lot of people that I game with use it at all. I wonder why that is?? I think because it does require the use of a feat in most cases. I played a pc who took a feat to use the spiked chain and a friend of mine thought I was crazy to spend a feat just to use a weapon. Well he thought I was crazy until he seen me kicking major booty with it.
Maybe because there is no movie hero or historic figure EVER to use such a ridiculous thing? That's the big mystery to me. Where did this crazy thing which is the most effective weapon for melee characters come from? It has few parallels in history, none really in popular culture or pulp fiction. It's just a strange aberration that cropped up in the rules.
The biggest thing is damage should be lower and it should not work with Power Attack.
Maybe because there is no movie hero or historic figure EVER to use such a ridiculous thing? That's the big mystery to me. Where did this crazy thing which is the most effective weapon for melee characters come from? ...
There it is - the spike chain is the most ridiculous weapon that exists in the players handbook, based on no real life medieval weapons, and yet it is the most effective weapoin a melee character can weild. How sad for D&D.
There it is - the spike chain is the most ridiculous weapon that exists in the players handbook, based on no real life medieval weapons, and yet it is the most effective weapoin a melee character can weild. How sad for D&D.
The Spiked Chain is a trap, unless you're taking Exotic Weapon Master, of course.
So I spend a feat, for:
-the same damage as a Guisarme
-crit for x2 instead of the Guisarme's x3
-and still get to make trip attempts.
And with a Guisarme, I can be a Dervish, to counter the Exotic Weapon Master trump.
All Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) is is a watered-down version of Short Haft.
-Matt
The Spiked Chain is a trap, unless you're taking Exotic Weapon Master, of course.
So I spend a feat, for:
-the same damage as a Guisarme
-crit for x2 instead of the Guisarme's x3
-and still get to make trip attempts.And with a Guisarme, I can be a Dervish, to counter the Exotic Weapon Master trump.
All Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) is is a watered-down version of Short Haft.
-Matt
The spiked chain also can be finessed and gets a +2 to disarm checks.
OK, let's REALLY break the game. 1st level human fighter:
Spiked Chain, Improved trip, combat reflexes.
Enlarge Person. +1 from str increase, and another +1 from size. (Not As broken as the +4 size modifier in 3.5.) I think the trip attempt is at something like +10 minimum.
All of a sudden, you threaten EVERY square in a 20ft. radius. When someone tries to get up, you trip them with your AoO.
Spiked Chain + Trip = Broken
The Spiked Chain is a trap, unless you're taking Exotic Weapon Master, of course.
So I spend a feat, for:
-the same damage as a Guisarme
-crit for x2 instead of the Guisarme's x3
-and still get to make trip attempts.And with a Guisarme, I can be a Dervish, to counter the Exotic Weapon Master trump.
All Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) is is a watered-down version of Short Haft.
I suppose, but Short Haft and Dervish are non-core. Core/ PfRPG the Guisarme wielder is left unable to attack adjacent targets. You can also use TWF and Weapon Finesse with the chain which you cannot do with the Guisarme.
All of a sudden, you threaten EVERY square in a 20ft. radius. When someone tries to get up, you trip them with your AoO.
You cannot trip someone who is already prone.
This weapon has reach, threatens in the entire area it has reach too, can be used against adjacent targets, can be used as a two-handed weapon, can be used as a double-weapon for two-weapon fighting, can be used to trip, gains +2 to disarm attempts, and is finessable.
Where does it say that you can use it for TWF. It is not listed as a double weapon. I'm not seeing it.
"You cannot trip someone who is already prone."
But your no-good friends can beat them to death with less effort.
I suppose, but Short Haft and Dervish are non-core. Core/ PfRPG the Guisarme wielder is left unable to attack adjacent targets. You can also use TWF and Weapon Finesse with the chain which you cannot do with the Guisarme.
Yes, but a Guisarme wielder can wear spiked gauntlets or have armor spikes and gain the same advantages (attack adjacent, TWF and Finesse) without spending an extra feat.
In 3.5 there were some Trip focused builds that could "exploit" the spiked chain. I would say that the Trip/CMB nerf in PfRPG has done away with that.... Which simply makes the Spiked Chain a weapon that fills the exotic reach weapon niche.
Where does it say that you can use it for TWF. It is not listed as a double weapon. I'm not seeing it.
Oops, in my hate for the spiked chain I got a little carried away. You are correct, you can't use it as a double weapon.
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Where does it say that you can use it for TWF. It is not listed as a double weapon. I'm not seeing it.Oops, in my hate for the spiked chain I got a little carried away. You are correct, you can't use it as a double weapon.
Personally I think it should be used as a double weapon but like I said at the cost of a feat and in a full attack action only adjacent opponents. At the cost of another feat and loosing the range advantage I think that balances it out a bit better.
I always think of > this < when Spiked Chains come up.
I own many variations on the whip chain... and I don't really mess with them... not at high speed anyway. I received no training in them, except for The Christmas Story warning, "You'll shoot an eye out, kid!"
There was a guy named Paul at my kung-fu school way back when who was absolutely as good as the champion in that second video. He could lie seemingly flat on his back and pop up in such a way that allowed him to whirlybird the meteor hammer beneath him. It was unreal.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The chain whip videos remind me a lot of spinning poi...
...which might be a neat weapon, too.
Remember when weapons had required space? When the rules suggested that it was hard to swing a greatsword in a 5'-wide tunnel? That would be my preferred check on the spiked chain. It's great in its element, but it needs space.
I always think of > this < when Spiked Chains come up.
Except those chains are 3' long. The Spiked chain has reach and would need to be 6'+ long.
I always think of > this < when Spiked Chains come up.Except those chains are 3' long. The Spiked chain has reach and would need to be 6'+ long.
I have one that's the same one pound steel spike at the end of a very long rope. You can throw it over ten feet away from you and yank it back. Well you can anyway. I did it once and recalling thinking, "That was the one time in this lifetime I will try that."
There's only 2 pieces of equipment I really don't like in the 3.5 rules. First, is the animated property for shields (which is for the magic item discuessions). Second, is the spiked chain.
The flavor for this weapon is horrible and it's game mechanics are far too good, even at the price of a feat.
And once again I must say that it is not that the spiked chain is too good. It is that the other options aren't good enough. Tripmachine with 1.5 damage from Str on attacks is among the few ways to make melees rock, at least in their own niche. And no, the guisarme is not as good as the spiked chain - Short Haft does not allow you to retain all normal benefits. (Weapon Finesse does not matter, however - you should always, always prioritize Strength for a tripfighter.)
I agree about flavor, though. I can stomach some sort of a blade on a chain, but the current spiked chain just looks stupid.
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Yes, but a Guisarme wielder can wear spiked gauntlets or have armor spikes and gain the same advantages (attack adjacent, TWF and Finesse) without spending an extra feat.
Finesse is a trap in this case. As is falling back to a weaker option+enchanting two weapons instead of one.
Where does it say that you can use it for TWF. It is not listed as a double weapon. I'm not seeing it.Oops, in my hate for the spiked chain I got a little carried away. You are correct, you can't use it as a double weapon.
No, it is not a Double Weapon. The CHAIN from "Oriental Adventures" is a Double Weapon and a 2-Handed Reach Weapon, doing 1d6/1d6 or 2d4.
...Second, is the spiked chain. The flavor for this weapon is horrible and it's game mechanics are far too good, even at the price of a feat. This weapon has reach, threatens in the entire area it has reach too, can be used against adjacent targets, can be used as a two-handed weapon, can be used as a double-weapon for two-weapon fighting, can be used to trip, gains +2 to disarm attempts, and is finessable.
The flavor is fine, it's what every person out there who has played Castlevania is looking for in a weapon. However, I would rather there just be a flail with reach personally. It's the crapstastic artwork that lacks flavor, every horrible picture I've ever seen of the thing places this weapon under UNWIELDY at best. Even with the 3-Rings for handholds, you'd never get a decent 2-Hander swing on the Spiked Chain depicted in the Artwork.
The Feat Tax for the weapon is fine. It's an exotic weapon, which then requires the Combat Expertise feat tree to even be really useful. (Combat Expertise, Imp. Trip & Imp. Disarm) AND... the last time I checked, Beta CMB Rules have not been to kind to the Chain Fighter, relatively making him look silly. (We've house-ruled "10+STR+DEX+D20" for our CMB, it fixes it.)
A Greatsword and Earthbreaker argueably do better average damage than a Spiked Chain, making them a better choice for a Fighter interested in damage.
The entire polearm tree has the same amount of Feat Tax as the Spiked Chain. Instead of "Exotic Weapon" take "Half Haft"(like Dennis the Ogre mentioned)... Combat Expertise, Imp. Trip OR Imp. Disarm. The only differences are you need an action to threaten 5' or 10', and no one polearm does trip and disarm.
The only thing broken about the Spiked Chain in 3.5e was the "Imp. Trip Feat". It read poorly and allowed an extra attack... this could be very, very broken. You cannot trip someone who is prone or even standing up from prone, because they are on the ground when the trigger happens.
But as I said, I'd rather see a flail with reach.
Maybe because there is no movie hero or historic figure EVER to use such a ridiculous thing?
You aren't a fan of Blood of Heroes are you? That movie is real popular with my group. Side note: Most of us don't use the Spiked Chain in game... Probably due to needing a few feats to make it worthwhile...
Video Clip, although the final match has a good chain vs. chain scene with the guy in this clip going against a guy with two chains. But I couldn't find a clip of that.
EDIT:: Also, how could I forget Go Go Yubari from Kill Biil? While not so much spiked... Is there a better weapon in 3.5 core to duplicate her style?
The esteemed MR. Moyer has the right of it. The brokeness of the chain all stemmed from triping and its associated feats, which have been or will be fixed so I say leave it alone. The chain has become a buzz topic for the comic book guy sounding tube that is every game forum. To those who dont think its realisitic, I tell them to go watch the little school girl from the crazy 88's in kill bill. Sure it doesnt match the art, but it gets the point acrossed. The fact is that when you take the same number of feats all the chain gets you over a polearm is that that adjacent attack doesnt cost you any sort of action.
The fact is that when you take the same number of feats all the chain gets you over a polearm is that that adjacent attack doesnt cost you any sort of action.
That's all? Costing an action is huge. And don't forget it's a finessable weapon that gets +2 to disarming.
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OK, let's REALLY break the game. 1st level human fighter:
Spiked Chain, Improved trip, combat reflexes.
Enlarge Person. +1 from str increase, and another +1 from size. (Not As broken as the +4 size modifier in 3.5.) I think the trip attempt is at something like +10 minimum.
All of a sudden, you threaten EVERY square in a 20ft. radius. When someone tries to get up, you trip them with your AoO.
Spiked Chain + Trip = Broken
No that is called effective use of the rules.
Unless you also have the feat Combat Reflexes you only get one AoO. And this is an ideal tactic for any tank. One of the jobs of a tank to stop an opponent in its tracks and keep it from advancing. Spiked Chain and Trip is perfect for that. And since Improved Trip has lost the free attack when Trip is successful, Tripping is not nearly so powerful as it was.
Besides how is Tripping any worse than say just standing in one place, swing a sword all the time? Sword whacking monkeys get old too.
The fact is that when you take the same number of feats all the chain gets you over a polearm is that that adjacent attack doesnt cost you any sort of action.That's all? Costing an action is huge. And don't forget it's a finessable weapon that gets +2 to disarming.
Its not nearly as huge as you might think,as it really will only cost you on attacks of opportunity. But aside from that, the fact that it is finessable is a complete non issue to me as it makes sense for the nature of the weapon, adds yet another feat you need to make it usefull if thats your build and the thing has relatively lower damage for a 2 hander. The plus to disarm is a bit unneeded but lets be honest here, everyone's arguement to this point has been about trip, and if you have the feats to build a chain fighter that has the full trip tree, weapon finese, exotic weapon chain, and the disarm tree before level 20 you are just trying to break the game.... To which I can point you to a number of builds that dont feature the chain that will do just as good a job if not better and with fewer feats expended. You all act like just by taking the spiked chain feat all these abilities come for free and that is simply not the case. If anything I think chain should be the water mark that all the exotics should be measured against. They all should have some cool abilities to make them worth the feat and extra cash expenditure. A little more damage or some neat descriptor text does not make it worth a feat. How about a large hammer that gets bonuses to sundering, Or the repeating crossbow getting a second shot in a round on a full attack action. Everybody loves to cry nerf on the chain but I think it is positoned perfectly to be the gold standard for what a weapon you have to take a feat to use should be.
Its not nearly as huge as you might think,as it really will only cost you on attacks of opportunity...
Having reach to use for attacks of opportunity is the main issue I have with a weapon that can attack adjacent creatures, trip, gains +2 to disarm, is finessable, and has reach. If the ability to threaten creatures that weren't adjacent to the weilder were removed I would consider it a balanced weapon.
Edit note: I would rather see more weapons become effective like the spiked chain than to make the spiked chain less effective. It just bothers me that a ridiculous weapon like the spike chain works better at giving the fighter the right tools to do his job than any other weapon in D&D. At least make polearms as effective as the spiked chain.
There are a number of weapons that can easily mimic the spiked chain.
In all honesty, the rope whip and the spike version of the Manriki-gusari best fit the function of this weapon.
I think illustrating the spiked chain as a rope dart or spike and chain manriki-gusari, as opposed to the horrible player's handbook illustration, may help the weapon's image (pardon the pun).
Its not nearly as huge as you might think,as it really will only cost you on attacks of opportunity...Having reach to use for attacks of opportunity is the main issue I have with a weapon that can attack adjacent creatures, trip, gains +2 to disarm, is finessable, and has reach. If the ability to threaten creatures that weren't adjacent to the weilder were removed I would consider it a balanced weapon.
Edit note: I would rather see more weapons become effective like the spiked chain than to make the spiked chain less effective. It just bothers me that a ridiculous weapon like the spike chain works better at giving the fighter the right tools to do his job than any other weapon in D&D. At least make polearms as effective as the spiked chain.
Exotic weapons should be more effective, as you are spending more on them (an extra feat). In its favor the spiked chain can attack adjacent opponents, has a + 2 to disarm and you can use another feat with it (why you would finesse this weapon is beyond me)... against it is the fact that all other reach weapons have either better base damage or better crit damage and all of the other reach weapons cost less (not much but still there kind of like finessing a spike chain).
Right now all it takes is a five foot step and you are back in range for AoO's with other reach weapons... there's even a feat that lets you do that on someone else's turn now for fighter. Beyond that they still have to move past your AoO's to get out of AoO range anyways! IF they are tumbling in you won't get your AoO's in the first place so it doesn't matter there either.
Not just anyone can pick up an exotic weapon at level 1 and start using it effectively -- only rangers, fighters, paladins, and barbarians can. For giving up a feat to use a reach weapon in this case you get to attack adjacent people, you aren't getting more damage just extra squares to target. 1 feat = benefit, no feat = no benefit... makes sense to me.
Edit note: I would rather see more weapons become effective like the spiked chain than to make the spiked chain less effective. It just bothers me that a ridiculous weapon like the spike chain works better at giving the fighter the right tools to do his job than any other weapon in D&D. At least make polearms as effective as the spiked chain.
This is my big issue also. It's not so much that the spiked chain is a good weapon as it is that it is arguably the best melee weapon. If this is what exotic weapons should be like then other exotic weapons should be as effective as the spiked chain. Many exotic weapons wouldn't even be taken as martial weapons.
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Edit note: I would rather see more weapons become effective like the spiked chain than to make the spiked chain less effective. It just bothers me that a ridiculous weapon like the spike chain works better at giving the fighter the right tools to do his job than any other weapon in D&D. At least make polearms as effective as the spiked chain.This is my big issue also. It's not so much that the spiked chain is a good weapon as it is that it is arguably the best melee weapon. If this is what exotic weapons should be like then other exotic weapons should be as effective as the spiked chain. Many exotic weapons wouldn't even be taken as martial weapons.
While I would say *I* think the spiked chain is the best weapon, perhaps it doesn't work for everyone.
However, yeah I would like to all exotic weapons be this cool. Nearly all of them have something going for them, but not quite to this degree. So yeah I'd say kick them up a notch.
And now that I think about it, Weapon Training should include something better than just +1 attack/+1 damage. Some kind of special fighting maneuver or style or SOMETHING. Had not really considered it before discussing this.
The flavor for this weapon is horrible and it's game mechanics are far too good, even at the price of a feat. This weapon has reach, threatens in the entire area it has reach too, can be used against adjacent targets, can be used as a two-handed weapon, can be used as a double-weapon for two-weapon fighting, can be used to trip, gains +2 to disarm attempts, and is finessable.OK lets compare abilities side by side with others and see how it stacks up.
Spiked chain is used two-handed, has reach and can trip.
Guisarme is used two-handed, has reach and can trip.
For a feat you get to use the Spiked chain and beside its mundane uses listed above you get to use the spiked chain against adjacent foes, and can use it as a double-weapon and you get +2 to disarm attempts. For an additional feat you can use it finessable.
For the use of a feat those few additional uses do not seem too bad. Especially since the crit modifier is only x2, while all other Exotic Weapons have x3 or better.
Let's look at the Dire Flail, the only other x2 crit Exotic Weapon. It is a double weapon, or can be used one handed as a light weapon. +2 to disarm an enemy. Can be used for trip attacks. This looks pretty even to the Spiked Chain.
So all in all, since most exotics are doubles, have fantastic damage and crit values and/or have cool uses, I say Spiked Chain is right in the middle of the power use.
I would disagree about its power use level. I would say it is high, when compared to other exotic weapons, but it is one of the only exotic weapons worth using a feat to get, so it is actually balanced for its cost.
And now that I think about it, Weapon Training should include something better than just +1 attack/+1 damage. Some kind of special fighting maneuver or style or SOMETHING. Had not really considered it before discussing this.
I don't want to derail this thread, but your thought is interesting. A fighter custumizes through feats... and also through his training class abilities.
Its not nearly as huge as you might think,as it really will only cost you on attacks of opportunity...
Having reach to use for attacks of opportunity is the main issue I have with a weapon that can attack adjacent creatures, trip, gains +2 to disarm, is finessable, and has reach. If the ability to threaten creatures that weren't adjacent to the weilder were removed I would consider it a balanced weapon.
I don't think it costing a swift action is a big deal honestly. The easiest fix in the whole world is 1gp away... Spiked Gauntlets. Spiked Gauntlets allow you to threaten the 5 foot area, this would be the case once you've gotten your AOOs and enemies have closed in on you, then on your next round Half Haft would kick in.
Can you threaten the 5 and the 10 at the same time, short of the Spiked Chain or a Monk with a Polearm? No. But you can cover your bases realtively easy and on the cheap. I recommend Spiked Gauntlets for every Fighter, (including a Chain Fighter) you never know when the Disarm or Trip is going to go poorly and you're going to be without your primary weapon.
The fact that the Spiked Chain is Weapon Finesse-able is in the words of Admiral Ackbar...."It's a trap!" Especially the way CMB currently works as I mentioned above, CMB is STR-based(aka Trip & Disarm). AND... Weapon Finesse provides a very, very small benefit for a STR-based character. In 3.5e Disarm was an attack roll, in PF it's CMB. Until CMB changes, Weapon Finesse-able is simply not a valid arguement.
I am not a Spiked Chain lover, but I have played one in 3.5e for 2 1/2 years, it was a learning process for our entire party and DM. Perhaps Polearms should also threaten the 5 foot area, but with the blunt end(1d6 dmg x2 crit)... making them all double weapons in a sense. I have seen Spears and Tridents done this way in the past and it makes sense.
Personally, I really hate the spiked chain, but that's an aside. My question is, shouldn't you have to choose per round whether to use it as a reach or an adjacent and adjust your grip accordingly? I'm just really not sure how it can be both, since the momentum and spikes are at the business end.
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Perhaps Polearms should also threaten the 5 foot area, but with the blunt end(1d6 dmg x2 crit)... making them all double weapons in a sense. I have seen Spears and Tridents done this way in the past and it makes sense.
I certainly agree with that. There are some reasons not to allow them to threaten 5' without a feat, but the more and more I think about the more I think a feat is not worth it and the more I think Martial training would cover that. Especially when it dawned on me that technically Martial Weapons Proficiency is a feat also. So while some get the feat as part of their class, it essentially is still representing the training needed.
So then the question became, why not? And for the life of me I could not find a good reason why not.
So I guess I am changing my previous opinions on this matter :)
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Personally, I really hate the spiked chain, but that's an aside. My question is, shouldn't you have to choose per round whether to use it as a reach or an adjacent and adjust your grip accordingly? I'm just really not sure how it can be both, since the momentum and spikes are at the business end.
Because one round is over s i x a g o n i z i n l y l o n g s e c o n d s...... in six seconds a LOT can happen.
I would rather the spiked chain be reworked to be akin to the rope dart or metor hammer.
Have the spiked chain be a length of light chain with a bladed weight instead of the spike. The fighting style of the weapons mimics the game mechanics of a spiked chain. The fact that the weapons are actually difficult to master explains the Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
I would rather the spiked chain be reworked to be akin to the rope dart or metor hammer.
Have the spiked chain be a length of light chain with a bladed weight instead of the spike. The fighting style of the weapons mimics the game mechanics of a spiked chain. The fact that the weapons are actually difficult to master explains the Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
I got 'em both. Dangerous weapons, man. Dangerous to use, that is. ;)
Because one round is over s i x a g o n i z i n l y l o n g s e c o n d s...... in six seconds a LOT can happen.
By that argument, other polearms should be able to have their grip shortened and be used against adjacent (which I've seen posted elsewhere)
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By that argument, other polearms should be able to have their grip shortened and be used against adjacent (which I've seen posted elsewhere)
Because one round is over s i x a g o n i z i n l y l o n g s e c o n d s...... in six seconds a LOT can happen.
Yeah I can come to accept that as well.
Are there two threads about Spiked Chains?
I would rather the spiked chain stay as is and the other exotic weapons be boosted some. If I have to spend a feat to use a specific weapon I want something like the Spiked Chain. The others are just not worth an entire feat. I don't feel the Spiked Chain is THAT much better, but I have been persuaded it is better. As such, either improve the other Exotic Weapons or nerf the Spiked Chain and drop the Exotic Weapons category all together.
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The fact that the Spiked Chain is Weapon Finesse-able is in the words of Admiral Ackbar...."It's a trap!" Especially the way CMB currently works as I mentioned above, CMB is STR-based(aka Trip & Disarm). AND... Weapon Finesse provides a very, very small benefit for a STR-based character. In 3.5e Disarm was an attack roll, in PF it's CMB. Until CMB changes, Weapon Finesse-able is simply not a valid arguement.
I agree completely with Eric (OP) on this. The spiked chain is by far the most over-powered weapon. Not only does it have the most bang for its buck unilatteraly, it's the best over-all exotic weapon, too.
Point number one) Its the only weapon that can effectively threaten and attack ALL creatures within 10ft. It provides the tool for the trip/disarm power-build monkeys since it does threaten that many squares AND gives mechanic bonuses to doing those maneuvers. Finally Finesse may as you stipulate be a trap....since the CMB is strength based - BUT there's a feat to overcome that restriction too - allowing DEX to surrogate for the modifier in the CMB check.
Someone with a moderate STR with both Weapon Finesse and a high Dex and power attack gain far more effectiveness since its the only 2 handed weapon (gaining 2x dmg w/ PA and 1.5 str dmg) along with losing very little from the attack roll, and never getting to be a big loss since you're using DEX to attack with it. In other words while a fighter who relies on his str and power attack will eventually be subtracting 7, 8, 9 etc from his attack roll as his strength gets insanely high. Meanwhile a Dex based fighter with weapon finesse and a moderate strength can allow his dex to get that insane high while always only subtracting the 2 or 3 that his 15-17 str allows and always doing an extra 4-6 points of damage with very little subtracted from his attack rolls. 6 extra points of damage from a -3 to attack is a big reward for the penalty when you think of the weapon being "finessed" and dex based....
As for the exotic weapon status. Compare to a bastard sword - essentially does exactly as a longsword does with but avg 1 more point of damage. Compare to Repeating Hvy Xbow. After you fire five shots you still need to spend that time to reload the new clip. to even reduce this to a MOVE action thus limiting the round to only one attack, you need to spend ANOTHER feat of Rapid Reload, and still only get one attack that round. Instead of spending a feat on that.....its easier to be an elf or non-elf and spend that one feat on Martial weapon and use a Longbow - no reloading, no restrictions on the amount of attacks that can be used, AND can get a strength bonus for a nominal cost.
Back to the spiked chain - there are ways I see that can made to eliminate the power creep that the chain is a tool for - when combined with the trip/disarm monkey build.
One of these needs to be made true:
1) Disallow Weapon Finesse as part of the weapon; if its a two handed weapon it should not be a "finesseable" weapon that "light" weapons typically benefit from.
2) Make the chain be able to make attacks at targets 10ft away - But not threaten them. The chain is not rigid, it does not hold it's form and stay erected from the attacks body (like a polearm would), thus it shouldn't threaten that far away. If a counter to this idea is that the chain is always 'swinging' and thus it's inertia keeps it threatening those squares, then what keeps it from smacking into all sorts of other obstacles including allies near the spiked chain wielder as he spins this weapon continuously.
In addition to ONE of the two above - the Power Attack feat needs to stipulate "CANNOT be used in conjunction with Weapon Finesse"
Then I will agree that the Spiked Chain is balanced.
Furthermore, I am advocating not only lessening the spiked chains power (a little), but ALSO advocating some enhancements to many of the other exotic weapons.
Is Bastard sword really worth a feat? Is repeating xbow really better than martial weapon Longbow (when considering my comparison above)?
Robert