Director of Brand Strategy
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Kind of a stretch isn't it? There's been a lot of 'meteor hits planet' scenarios in movies, comics, games, etc. Why not Armageddon? I'm sure we can find a near look-alike of Bruce Willis if we tried hard enough.
A lighter skinned Belor Hemlock, perhaps?
I think the issue is that the Final Fantasy series has incorporated so many genre tropes over the last twenty years that finding parallels is going to be easy. How many of the monsters from those games have appeared in D&D and other RPGs? They're all drawing from the same inspirations, and in some cases FF has drawn from D&D.
My understanding of the Paizo staff's video game habits are that they tend more toward the MMO vein than the single person console games. But I could be wrong on that.
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Creative Director
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I actually MUCH prefer single-player CRPGs. My favorite 3 CRPGS of all time are Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape: Torment, and Fallout 2, to be precise (with Mass Effect and Oblivion coming in at #4 and #5). I've actually only ever played two Final Fantasy games (FF X and FF X-2), but I enjoyed them QUITE a lot; very pretty with some great visuals and compelling story lines.
I've never played the FF game with Cloud, although I do know who he is. Wes Schneider and Sarah Robinson are both bigger fans of the series than I am.
That all said... the meteor elements in Second Darkness are actually inspired more by movies about meteors hitting the Earth and actual real-world events (Tunguska for one, the dinosaur killer for another) than any actual video game stuff.
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Creative Director
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I think the issue is that the Final Fantasy series has incorporated so many genre tropes over the last twenty years that finding parallels is going to be easy. How many of the monsters from those games have appeared in D&D and other RPGs? They're all drawing from the same inspirations, and in some cases FF has drawn from D&D.
This is actually a very astute observation. Both Final Fantasy and World of Warcraft (and pretty much EVERY fantasy-genre game, to be honest) have stolen or borrowed elements from D&D; D&D is VERY much at the genesis of pretty much the entire genre of CRPGs and MMORPGs in fact, from the fact that they use stats like Hit Points and ability scores on up to creature design (there are gnolls and very-beholder looking creatures in Warcraft, for example, and mimics appear in Final Fantasy games).
And beyond that... all of these games DO draw from the same wellspring of inspiration, from classical mythology (all three games have minotaur type creatures) to Lovecraft (Final Fantasy actually has shantaks and gugs, among other things) to each other.
I have a friend who was working on converting and tuning races and classes for a D&D to FF(Ivalice) thing.. then he decided that Eberron was it.. Anyone seen any (semi?)(quasi?) official bit similar?
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...asked about one-winged angels...I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but I assume it's Final Fantasy related question. We've got a 5-winged angel in Pathfinder #14. Does that count?
In any event, no 1-winged angels on the schedule yet.
The last boss's final form in FF7 is that of a one-winged Angel, and the battle was fought to the song by the same name. actually a pretty decent orchestral song if you look it up.
it also led to some very funny comics and merch. my brother has the shirt. rather funny if you played the game and watched advent children.
This is actually a very astute observation. Both Final Fantasy and World of Warcraft (and pretty much EVERY fantasy-genre game, to be honest) have stolen or borrowed elements from D&D; D&D is VERY much at the genesis of pretty much the entire genre of CRPGs and MMORPGs in fact, from the fact that they use stats like Hit Points and ability scores on up to creature design (there are gnolls and very-beholder looking creatures in Warcraft, for example, and mimics appear in Final Fantasy games).
This is more true than alot of final fantasy fans may realise. The very first final fantasy game features spells per day, elves, dwarves and other archtypical fantasy creatures (even dark elves) even classes (the default classes of which just happen to be a warrior, theif, white mage and black mage). To an extent it also features "prestige classes" wherin the party gains additional powers e.g the warrior upgrades to the paladin, which is just the same except the warrior can then use holy equipment and gains access to some minor white magic.
Meteors aren't exactly speficic to final fantasy VII. Despite being a big final fantasy fan I've never really assocaited VII with a meteor, if someone mentions such a plot to me I'm actually more inclinced to think of worms armagedon.
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This is actually a very astute observation. Both Final Fantasy and World of Warcraft (and pretty much EVERY fantasy-genre game, to be honest) have stolen or borrowed elements from D&D; D&D is VERY much at the genesis of pretty much the entire genre of CRPGs and MMORPGs in fact, from the fact that they use stats like Hit Points and ability scores on up to creature design (there are gnolls and very-beholder looking creatures in Warcraft, for example, and mimics appear in Final Fantasy games).
Not to mention Owlbears, Orcs from another world, lich-kings, etc, etc, etc. Did they even include the OGL in Warcraft III?
Of course, nobody would ever have to acknowledge this. Let's just "borrow" some IP and pretend it is original and then be praised as geniuses. Really bugs me actually. It is the fantasy equivalent of Star Wars - the mainstream thinks Fantasy begins and ends with Lord of the Rings, Final Fantasy, and Warcraft. Sci-fi begins and ends with Star Wars and Star Trek. Blah.
Another very guilty party is Heroes of Might and Magic. Their monsters operate by the D&D construction to the T. Gorgons are giant gas-spewing bulls, for example.
One that I find pretty original is the Suikoden series. Pretty much everything there exists in its own little world.
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With the Castlevania references in one Pathfinder product, you can add another incestuous tabletop-videogame series relationship to the mix.
Castlevania loves the Monster Manual as much as it loves classic literature, mythology, old school horror movies, and obscure folklore, especially after Symphony of the Night.
I've seen someone hold up the falling rock in the aforemention AP as making that path "too much of a Final Fantasy VII rip-off for her tastes". The idea that anyone thinks FF originated and somehow has a monopoly on such a plot element confounds me, but it isn't the first time Final Fantasy has been given far more credit than it's due. And I say that as a Final Fantasy fan.(well, barring some of the entries...)
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With the Castlevania references in one Pathfinder product, you can add another incestuous tabletop-videogame series relationship to the mix.I'm not sure exactly what you're referencing in regards to Castlevania, but I have seen that mentioned in posts elsewhere in regards to PF#11 Skeletons of Scarwall. If that's not what you're referring to, then please ignore this post. If it is in reference to Skeletons, then just for the record, Castlevania had no influence that I know of on Skeletons of Scarwall, because I've never seen nor played Castlevania. If I had, I probably WOULD have used some stuff from it, but just for the sake of full disclosure, any Castlevania similarity is purely coincidental. Not that I have anything against Castlevania; I just didn't use it in Skeletons of Scarwall.
Oh, it's not an in-game reference. It's the quote in the foreward that had so many of us geeking out(me included).
Curse of the Crimson Throne spoilers:
It's kind of like what was said earlier about FF, Castlevania is such an all-inclusive game when it comes to horror tropes and themes that coincidental similarities with a lot of unrelated works are inevitable.
That said, this CV nut has absolutely no issues from any actual inspiration being taken from that series in future Pathfinder products. ;)
Meteors aren't exactly speficic to final fantasy VII. Despite being a big final fantasy fan I've never really assocaited VII with a meteor, if someone mentions such a plot to me I'm actually more inclinced to think of worms armagedon.
See, I think of that one Sean Connery movie where he actually did say "The game is afoot!" dead seriously. Meteor or Asteroid, one or the other. American and Russian nukes teamed up in the end to save the day IIRC.
Meteors aren't exactly speficic to final fantasy VII. Despite being a big final fantasy fan I've never really assocaited VII with a meteor, if someone mentions such a plot to me I'm actually more inclinced to think of worms armagedon.
(Scottish accent) "Ye'll never escape the wrath of th' CONCRETE DONKEY!!"
In regards to the Castlevania games, at least the party has never had to find the pieces of some powerful undead, reanimate him, then defeat him.
"You won't be spared, but you'll die faster!"
That so reminds me of the Dark Dungeons-parody featuring Mythos cultists!
(Tunguska for one, the dinosaur killer for another)
Way to flaunt your ignorance, James. I wouldn't have thought that you of all people would fall for that. As everyone should know, Tunguska wasn't a natural occurance, but rather a test for an antimatter bomb developed by the Masonic Order for World Leadership (M.O.W.L.). It is widely assumed that the 2oz model having been tested to their satisfaction, they're well on their way to build the megaton model, which they then will use to blackmail the Federal Union of Galactical Leaders of Yeomen (F.U.G.L.Y). World domination for earth, along with all the benefits this brings, is only months away, and I for one have already started to celebrate.
And the dinosaur-killing comet was no natural occurance, either, but a deliberate extinction by the alien race "Y" to make room for their genetic invention (which is nowadays known as mankind).
Seems as if someone critically fumbled his Reality Check. I wonder who that was. Quick, ask for a reroll!
I've gotta ask. From time-to-time, it seems there's some big references. For example: ** spoiler omitted **
I'm cool with such influences.
I must also ask James: ** spoiler omitted **
Technically there was one in the first part of Rise of the Runelords if a certain villain with a somewhat infernal appendage counts.
Was that obscure enough to avoid having to be spoilered?
I still haven't figured out how to do that...
Was that obscure enough to avoid having to be spoilered?
I still haven't figured out how to do that...
It's not hard: You just put spoiler tags around the text you want to hide.
Spoiler tags look like this:
[ spoiler ] SPOILER TEXT [ /spoiler ]
But without the blanks in the brackets (had to put them in there so it wouldn't turn it into a spoiler)
You can also see all possible tags if you klick on the BBCode tags you can use: (Show) button that's below the window you write answers in, above the (Preview), (Cancel) and (Submit Post) buttons. Down there
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It seems like we've gotten these comments a few times, and aside from a few overt nods like "Escape from Old Korvosa" and the "What a Terrible Night to Have a Curse" editorial, there are no star chamber meetings wherein James and I are like, "Okay, what movies and games from our childhoods do we want to ape in this Adventure Path?" If this were the case, you would have seen a Mega Man themed path already.
Although, I guess the same argument could be made that all of the adventures are Mega Man rip-offs. I mean, you do fight through themed levels to fight a stronger weird boss character at the end in a lot of these.
At the end of the day, if you take any two things in the same genre and hold them up to each other, you're going to find similarities, especially when one of the things is a game like Finial Fantasy VII that has become so popularized that it has managed to infiltrate the attentions of even non-video gamers. Turns out Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter have a lot in common, but I wouldn't say that one is aping the other. They're working in similar tool sheds using the same tools, so its no surprise that the end results might have some similar components.
Also, I'm always amazed that it's the easy Amiri-Cloud imagining that sets folks squawking. I mean, really, Ezren is an old wizard with a staff! Valeros is a crass, out-of-work mercenary who even kind of looks like Val Kilmer! And Harsk looks like pretty much every dwarf ever. Is it the association with video gaming and anime, genres widely poo-pooed by many table-top roleplayers, that gets folks riled? Weird.
Is it going to be a problem that my chapter of Legacy of Fire is all about stealing high-end cars throughout the City of Brass, running from the cops, and busting caps in all the efreeti pimps and hoes?
ROFL!
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Is it going to be a problem that my chapter of Legacy of Fire is all about stealing high-end cars throughout the City of Brass, running from the cops, and busting caps in all the efreeti pimps and hoes?
You're writing another AP issue? I like 'em and all, but why not let other people write one for a change? Hoping to get another half page of props from the editorial department?
It seems like we've gotten these comments a few times, and aside from a few overt nods like "Escape from Old Korvosa" and the "What a Terrible Night to Have a Curse" editorial, there are no star chamber meetings wherein James and I are like, "Okay, what movies and games from our childhoods do we want to ape in this Adventure Path?" If this were the case, you would have seen a Mega Man themed path already
Wait. I'm trying to think about what you're referring to with "Escape from Old Korvosa". The first half, to me at least, struck me as equal influences of Perdido Street Station and Bedknobs and Broomsticks...
I actually MUCH prefer single-player CRPGs. My favorite 3 CRPGS of all time are Baldur's Gate 2...
Remember the lizardman king's ruins? Did you do what I did and lead him to the room with two big cauldrons and figure eight around them, stopping momentarily to snipe him before continuing on?
I always start RPG games off on the hardest level, and beating that lady BBEG at the end took me two days. What a @$#%^!
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If this were the case, you would have seen a Mega Man themed path already.
Oh man. Benevolent wizard creates seven soul-bound dolls imbued with their own distinct abilities and talents to help improve the lives of the people. His former associate, a wily and treacherous sort, absconds with six of them, twisting them to his own selfish ends and turning them into engines of fear and destruction. What's the old helpless wizard to do?
Also, I'm always amazed that it's the easy Amiri-Cloud imagining that sets folks squawking.
If it's of any consolation, Berserk was the first thing to come to my mind. FF7 gets credited for kicking off the HUEG SWORD trope far too often.
And dammit, I never saw the Val Kilmer thing before and now I can't unsee it.
Is it the association with video gaming and anime, genres widely poo-pooed by many table-top roleplayers, that gets folks riled? Weird.
Other than the few people I've seen complain about the superficial similarities they percieved(like in one thread on RPG.net, and they got called on how flimsy the accusations were), I know my crowd and I love any references or similarities that pop up. I don't see any of it, whether intentional or coincidental, intrusive at all.
Keep on keeping on, I say!
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Is it going to be a problem that my chapter of Legacy of Fire is all about stealing high-end cars throughout the City of Brass, running from the cops, and busting caps in all the efreeti pimps and hoes?
Throw in a "wanted level" mechanic and I'm sold tenfold!
Wait. I'm trying to think about what you're referring to with "Escape from Old Korvosa". The first half, to me at least, struck me as equal influences of Perdido Street Station and Bedknobs and Broomsticks...
I don't want to spoil anything about the adventure even in a roundabout way, but:
There are parts that really capture the feel.
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Creative Director
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.............they won't let me out of the basement............Is it going to be a problem that my chapter of Legacy of Fire is all about stealing high-end cars throughout the City of Brass, running from the cops, and busting caps in all the efreeti pimps and hoes?You're writing another AP issue? I like 'em and all, but why not let other people write one for a change? Hoping to get another half page of props from the editorial department?
(Stomps on floor)
I DON'T HEAR KEYBOARD CLACKS DOWN THERE, VAUGHAN! GET BACK TO WORK!
(Goes back to hookers and blow)
Keep on keeping on, I say!
Okay, Mikaze talked me down off my snark ledge. Thanks for being awesome Mikaze. (By the by, I just picked up volume 22 of Berserk last week. ^_~)
(Goes back to hookers and blow)
Pfffh, more like Deathbeds and cat hair.
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(By the by, I just picked up volume 22 of Berserk last week. ^_~)
I can't remember for certain, but I think that's around the point when the series starts being a little less emotionally abusive, right?
Very relatively speaking of course. I might just be setting myself up for a fall later down the line with that series. I don't think any other series has horrified and disgusted me as much yet still has me eager to see what happens next.
And man is it rough having Casca as your favorite character...
But seriously, about that Megaman AP....
I always did want to play a warforged warlock themed after Mega Man... Preferably X, since he's just more awesome in general. Of course, Zero trumps X, so I'd have to work soulknife levels in there somewhere... Or use Eldritch Glaive... Oh, crap, I think I've got a character concept...
a Mega Man themed path
Where can I get the subscription?
Seriously! I want mechanics for using a variant of your enemy's favourite weapon for yourself, enemies that are easier if you tackle them in a certain order (and use certain weapons against them), magic items that let you do a dash jump, an Operator class, and, of course, the iconic party!
Damn, those games rocked.
(Goes back to hookers and blow)
Priorities my friend.
It's *blow* and then hookers.
I always get that mixed up.
(Goes back to hookers and blow)Priorities my friend.
It's *blow* and then hookers.
Happens to everyone. Personally, I always blow up the hookers. But it's their own fault, really: Instead of correcting me, they even bring the explosives.
