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Rumors that you get a small benefit at the game table when you wear your faction shirt to an official Pathfinder Society Organized Play event should be started immediately.
and we learned that people really DO want to sport the colors of their faction and wear their shirts with pride (and free re-rolls).
Hmmm... can anyone who attended GenCon confirm specifics of this? I'm guessing one free re-roll per session if wearing your faction t-shirt at the table?
Is this documented anywhere? I couldn't find it in the Guide to Pathfinder Society organised play. Neither did I notice it printed on the t-shirts themselves (images from the Paizo store, or the GenCon blog). So what's the detail?
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...one free re-roll per session if wearing your faction t-shirt at the table?
I don't think it was documented anywhere, but if you wore your faction T-shirt at the table you got one free re-roll per adventure/session. It only applied to the individual wearing the shirt, and it had to be their faction's T-shirt. It actually came in handy- our ranger re-rolled a one and got a 19 on a combat roll, which helped us immensely.
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... it had to be their faction's T-shirt.
You see that's where my likeing of the idea falls down.
I disagree with the idea that misleading other players about your faction constitutes cheating/lieing/PvP/whatever, and it provides plenty of options for interesting character concepts and RP (RP being something in short supply in my (admitedly fairly limited) experience with Living Greyhawk, hopefully it's less of an issue in PFS).
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Living Arcanis had similar t-shirts. I can't remember the benefits granted, though I think auto-stabilising on reaching -10 hit-points may have been one of them. Sometimes a GM would be wearing a t-shirt at the table, and grant the benefit to a player who needed it (though this use probably wasn't strictly legal, no player is going to refuse such an offer).
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... it had to be their faction's T-shirt.You see that's where my likeing of the idea falls down.
I disagree with the idea that misleading other players about your faction constitutes cheating/lieing/PvP/whatever, and it provides plenty of options for interesting character concepts and RP (RP being something in short supply in my (admitedly fairly limited) experience with Living Greyhawk, hopefully it's less of an issue in PFS).
It comes down to trusting players to keep player knowledge seperate from character knowledge. If everyone cooperates, all will be well.
Remember that everyone in a faction at the table gets the credit if one of the players does the mission, so you don't want it too secret. (I heard of some amusing pile-ups diving for various trinkets at tables where players were unaware of this detail.) There's also the strong possibility for the reverse to occur, where someone else relies on you to get the faction because you lied to him. I'd be pretty frustrated if that happened to me. Additionally, since the DM hands out the mission on notes, keeping your faction secret is more work for the DM to keep straight.
Also, by their nature, some are more obvious than others. I mean, really, which faction most obviously cares if some NPCs are publicly humiliated or if you nab some scrying focus off some dude, or acquire some granary contaminant?
That reroll helped me out twice in four scenarios, so I'd say it's a good idea.
The next version of the guide will include official rules for the shirts.
I'm talking version 1.2, which is coming soon and will include the Gen Con playtesting and feedback.
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Living Arcanis had similar t-shirts. I can't remember the benefits granted, though I think auto-stabilising on reaching -10 hit-points may have been one of them.This doesn't seem like a particularly helpful benefit. :)
Tell that to someone at neg-eleven!
It's a pity the game benefit wasn't printed somewhere on faction t-shirts, as that would open the possibility of different shirts granting different benefits. Of course you'd still only legally be allowed to benefit from one t-shirt per game.
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It's a pity the game benefit wasn't printed somewhere on faction t-shirts, as that would open the possibility of different shirts granting different benefits. Of course you'd still only legally be allowed to benefit from one t-shirt per game.
Aww! And here I was planning to buy twenty shirts at Gen Con UK and gradually strip over the course of my games :P
PH only. :-)
Once I even guess, everyone will take that date as canon and I'll spend half my days after the day defending myself on not hitting the date. :-)
Short answer: no.
Keep in mind that I'm in the UK Monday through the 3rd, home for 4-5 days, then at the ACD Games Distribution show in Madison, WI for 3-4 days. I'd guess 1.2 will be finalized sometime after that, but I refuse to set a specific date.
I'm also transitioning from DoM to DoE as Nick is leaving Paizo after next week, so that's adding a great deal of additional work that'll keep me from 1.2.
All I can really say is "it's being worked on and it's coming soon."
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Events, IIRC.
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I posted this on the Andoran faction shirt's product page, but as it really applies to all the t-shirts, I thought I'd re-post it here.
Although I really like the shirts...and will get one after August, when I can justify spending more money on RPG-related stuff (big print product hit this month), I would really like to see the faction symbols moved to the back of the shirt, and replaced with the Pathfinder Society Logo placed tastefully on the left breast-pocket area.
I think it would be quite stylish, and would mitigate the risk of constantly reminding people at the table of what faction you support.
Just a thought.
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I think it would be quite stylish, and would mitigate the risk of constantly reminding people at the table of what faction you support.Just a thought.
I wouldn't mind a shirt with a pocket, but this wording brings up an attitude I keep seeing. Exactly what is the risk of constantly reminding people what faction you support? Everyone at the table is bound by the no PvP, no bullying, no cheating rules, so it's not like Cheliax and Andoran are going to throw down from the get-go. Likewise for Taldor and Qadira. Besides, since everyone from a faction gets the award if even only one person from the faction gets it, it is in everyone's interest to cooperate with other members of their factions. Why make that hard? I'm pretty sure when I read the details of the faction of rustic anarchist do-gooders and passed them over for the empire of secrets for secrecy's sake, I didn't read anything about either faction having a cell structure where you don't know who your friends are. Seriously, what is the reason for player secrecy? It'd be like playing a cleric and trying to keep your religion a secret.
Having played all four of the August scenarios, I'm amazed that people would expect to be able to keep their faction a secret at all, or at least secret from the other PCs. Osirion probably has the most subtle missions, but that just means that's who you guess has the mission with no clear purpose. I've seen a few missions where two factions are in conflict, but the plot coupons they need to get their points either haven't been mutually exclusive, or have seemed to come down to luck of the draw in how a combat goes.
From watching parties of 4-5 factions, I can say that the best reason for players to be open about their faction is so they sit together. It makes conspiracies and cooperation much easier to organize! The few times I was unsure what the other faction's mission was, was because they had taken to whispering up a plot.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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(The Living Arcanis shirt allows a player's character to survive down to negative CON score, rather than -9 hp. I was playing at a table once when my character dropped to -12. One of the other players at the table took off her "magic shirt" and loaned it to me to keep my character alive.)
Without a written rule in place, I will not be allowing this "house rule" at my PFS tables. It would indeed be helpful to players, I don't deny that, but I don't want to get into silly disagreements like:
Player 1: Damn! I re-roll my save.
Player 2: Re-roll? What kind of crazy --?
DM: He's wearing a magic shirt. He gets a re-roll.
Player 2: What? Show me where it says that.
DM: Oh, it's a House Rule. It's not written down anywhere.
Player 3: Can I borrow his shirt and re-roll my save, too?
DM: I have no idea. I'll rule, no.
Player 2: I have a marker. If I write my faction on my shirt, can I re-roll?
DM: I have no clue. I'll rule that, since the plan is to get people to be walking advertisements for the PFS at the convention, sure. Re-roll.
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(The Living Arcanis shirt allows a player's character to survive down to negative CON score, rather than -9 hp. I was playing at a table once when my character dropped to -12. One of the other players at the table took off her "magic shirt" and loaned it to me to keep my character alive.)
Without a written rule in place, I will not be allowing this "house rule" at my PFS tables.
Fortunately, you won't have to. Once Pathfinder RPG goes live next August, we'll use that rule officially. In Pathfinder, you die when you negatively equal your constitution score, or if your CON is 9 or less, when you reach -10.
But up until that point, official 3.5 rules stand: a character dies once you reach -10 hit points.
As for the shirt, Josh officially announced the rule during convention play. Though 2 guys at my table wore their shirt, neither actually used the benefit during the game.
The next version of the Guide will contain the official rules, however.
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I got my shirt, yesterday. (Go, Andoran!) I've never seen a shirt packed that way, before...it was vacuum-bagged into the shape of an equilateral triangle about 4 inches on a side and about 2 inches thick.
Anyway, having finally played my first PFS scenarios (which were also my first-ever organized play scenarios, by the way), I realize that sharing your faction isn't a problem at all.
When I mentioned it in the post above, I wasn't really sure that it would be a problem, but I figured it was another point in favor of a new design. Also, I'm not recommending that the shirts actually have pockets. I was suggesting that the shirts should be printed with the PFS logo in the area where a pocket would normally be and with the faction logo on the back.
Regardless, I like my new shirt...it's the first RPG apparel I've ever purchased for myself. (I can't believe what a Paizo fanboi I've become.)
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In Pathfinder, you die when you negatively equal your constitution score, or if your CON is 9 or less, when you reach -10.But up until that point, official 3.5 rules stand: a character dies once you reach -10 hit points.
I'm very sorry, Teresake. I wasn't at all clear.
(But I'm curious: how do you know which of the Beta rules will be making it into the final draft of the Pathfinder RPG? )
(Or are you saying that characters will be able to survive down to negative CON in PFS play, whether or not that's a rule in Pathfinder's final version?)
As for the shirt, Josh officially announced the rule during convention play.
The next version of the Guide will contain the official rules, however.
Correction: Josh unofficially announced that house rule.
When the next version of the guide comes out, I'll be happy to allow a "magic shirt" re-roll at my table.
Without a written rule in place, I will not be allowing this house rule at my PFS tables.
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(But I'm curious: how do you know which of the Beta rules will be making it into the final draft of the Pathfinder RPG? )
I've been to the future, and actually have a copy of the official Pathfinder RPG rules.
(Well, no, but that would be cool.)
Considering how much revision the RPG has gone through, and still yet to go, nothing is ever certain. Regarding this particular rule, however, 1. it is a good rule, and 2. I don't think something relatively minor will be changed (especially when someone will always house rule this differently).
Correction: Josh unofficially announced that house rule.
There is no correction. Josh announced the rule during convention play at GenCon Indy, and presumably at GenCon UK as well, and has already said that it would be written into the next version of the organized play guide.
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(The Living Arcanis shirt allows a player's character to survive down to negative CON score, rather than -9 hp. I was playing at a table once when my character dropped to -12. One of the other players at the table took off her "magic shirt" and loaned it to me to keep my character alive.)
Yay. Strip-role-playing!
About time this was an official event!|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Correction: Josh unofficially announced that house rule.
There is no correction. Josh announced the rule during convention play at GenCon Indy, and presumably at GenCon UK as well, and has already said that it would be written into the next version of the organized play guide.
That house rule was ONLY good for GEN-CON and GEN-CON UK. It does not apply to PFS events at game stores or people's houses. If you have any documentation otherwise, I'd be glad to read it.
That was ONLY for shirts bought AT THE CONVENTION. If I want to get a re-roll at a diffeent convention, I need to buy another shirt. It's only for shirts that are actually worn. It's only for shirts that the player himself actually owns. If you have any documentation otherwise, I'd love to see it.
That was for one re-roll per convention. Or per hour. If you ... etc.
I'm not doing this to be an idjit. What I'm sayin' is that there's no official rule yet. If I were a player, and my DM hadn't heard of this mysterious "magic shirt" rule, I'm not going to be able to say to my DM "I'm going to re-roll that save; somebody --not Josh-- told me on the internet that Josh Frost himself had announced it, but it doesn't exist anywhere."
As I say, I will not be allowing it at my table.
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I apologize for being an idjit. In particular, I apologize to Teresake, who was simply trying to explain the situation as she understood it to me.
I don't doubt that Josh made some sort of rule at GEN CON Indy. I didn't mean to accuse anyone of lying.
My point, which I kept dancing around but could not articulate, is that the faction shirt reroll "house rule" is currently vague, and hearsay.
There's a convention in Iowa City at the end of October. I'm reasonably certain that I'm going to be the only likely Dungeon Master in attendance to even hear of the rule. The players at other DMs' tables aren't going to be able to explot it, and it's not fair that the players at my table should gain that kind of advantage.
I've been under stress at work, but that's no excuse for rudenes here. I regret my tone in previous posts.
Director of Brand Strategy
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There's a convention in Iowa City at the end of October. I'm reasonably certain that I'm going to be the only likely Dungeon Master in attendance to even hear of the rule. The players at other DMs' tables aren't going to be able to explot it, and it's not fair that the players at my table should gain that kind of advantage.
A reroll that gets $25 bucks in Paizo's pocket is a good house rule, even if it isn't a new shirt (they are soooo crinkly when you first get them that this seems unreasonable to me). And in the big scheme of things, one roll per person, per mod, isn't going to break the game either.
I understand where you're coming from with the con concern, but if the organizer informs all GMs that this rule is in effect at that con, then I don't see any unfair advantage. I wore my shirt to an in-store game tonight wherein the GM agreed to let me reroll and I never even used it. Didn't break the scenario...and I wore the shirt anyway, so I think it's something in which we should err on the side of getting people to buy and wear Paizo's shirt.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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A reroll that gets $25 bucks in Paizo's pocket is a good house rule, even if it isn't a new shirt (they are soooo crinkly when you first get them that this seems unreasonable to me). And in the big scheme of things, one roll per person, per mod, isn't going to break the game either.
Thanks for the response, Yoda. In particular, thanks for the general upbeat and positive take on this matter, and for trying to help me see past the frustration.
(helpless shrug, 'cause I'm guessing here) My honest interpretation of the "house rule" is that it wouldn't have to be an official, $25, bought-from-Paizo shirt. A player could write "Taldor" on his undershirt and it would count for a re-roll. For that matter, a "Hello, my name is..." sticker might count.
Telling people at a convention that they'd get an advantage if they bring something they can't buy at the convention seems massively unfair to me, and violates the spirit of Organized Play, as I understand it.
Otherwise, we might as well just invite players to pay 25 real dollars for a magic item. The idea seems to be to get the Pathfinder Society out there and create buzz. And you don't need official shirts to do that.
And the fact that we don't know what the official "house rule" is, is the main reason I'm not allowing it. It probably won't break adventures, but if someone comes to my table with 5 shirts, and they get five re-rolls!, that actually could prove to be the difference between a TPK and a milk run.
(And if you tell me that the rule is one-shirt-per-player, I'd reply, "says you". The only person who can say what the actual rule is, is Josh, who hasn't said.)
And there is no PFS organizer for the convention. It'll just be folks running adventures.
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I apologize for being an idjit. In particular, I apologize to Teresake, who was simply trying to explain the situation as she understood it to me.
Whoa, don't worry about it. I'm not feeling abused. :)
Hopefully, we'll see the updated PFS Guide soon, which will answer many of our questions, here or there.
I think the t-shirt ruling is pretty cool, personally. Besides, if I spent friggin' $25 on an official PFS Faction t-shirt, I'd want something out of it besides a spiffy packaging job.
At our table at GenCon, no one even used this, even though two of the players had their faction shirts. One guy could have though...he was playing a Dwarven cleric and failed his rope check as we were trying to shimmy across from one building to another. Though, I admit his use of animate rope was rather innovative.
I posted this on the Andoran faction shirt's product page, but as it really applies to all the t-shirts, I thought I'd re-post it here.
Although I really like the shirts...and will get one after August, when I can justify spending more money on RPG-related stuff (big print product hit this month), I would really like to see the faction symbols moved to the back of the shirt, and replaced with the Pathfinder Society Logo placed tastefully on the left breast-pocket area.
I think it would be quite stylish, and would mitigate the risk of constantly reminding people at the table of what faction you support.
Just a thought.
This was our initial plan. However it raises the cost of the shirts to a price we're not comfortable charging. We have no current plans to change the design strategy of the shirts.
As for the free re-roll:
If you are wearing an OFFICIAL Paizo faction shirt as sold on paizo.com or at a convention where we're selling it, you get one free re-roll per scenario.
You cannot write "Taldor" on a shirt and get a free re-roll.
This is not a house rule. It's a rule I'm adding to version 1.2 of the guide.
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As for the free re-roll:
If you are wearing an OFFICIAL Paizo faction shirt as sold on paizo.com or at a convention where we're selling it, you get one free re-roll per scenario.
You cannot write "Taldor" on a shirt and get a free re-roll.
This is not a house rule. It's a rule I'm adding to version 1.2 of the guide.
Thank you for the clarification, Josh. It's appreciated.
So, your shirt does not need to match your faction?
And it needs to be a roll that you yourself make, and not, say, the DM rolling a critical confirmation?
Can you decide to re-roll after you've found out whether the original roll succeeds or not? Do you need to take the re-roll, even if it's worse?
The full rules will be in 1.2. :-)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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As for the free re-roll:
If you are wearing an OFFICIAL Paizo faction shirt as sold on paizo.com or at a convention where we're selling it, you get one free re-roll per scenario.
You cannot write "Taldor" on a shirt and get a free re-roll.
This is not a house rule. It's a rule I'm adding to version 1.2 of the guide.
What about those of us who are too big for our shirts? (5x lt here)
"Sorry Matt, you're too fat for your character to live."
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Josh, I look forward to the next iteration of the rules so that I'll be able to fairly allow this rule at my table.
What about those of us who are too big for our shirts? (5x lt here)"Sorry Matt, you're too fat for your character to live."
Maybe the rules won't specify where you have to wear the shirt...
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Josh, I look forward to the next iteration of the rules so that I'll be able to fairly allow this rule at my table.
What about those of us who are too big for our shirts? (5x lt here)"Sorry Matt, you're too fat for your character to live."
Maybe the rules won't specify where you have to wear the shirt...
I'll buy a medium shirt and make it into a thong!
"I've your Cheliax symbol.... right here."
