Creative Director
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The subject says it all. How about Paizo making free downloads of all iconic characters from low to high level with Pathfinder Beta rules included. Might give playtesting more of a push. Might just be cool to see them re-imagined.
That could be nifty... but every time someone says "WEB ENHANCEMENT" I get the twitchy eye and the jumpy leg... those things stress me out. Against my better judgement, though, I'll bounce the idea around back here in THE PIT and see what happens...
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The subject says it all. How about Paizo making free downloads of all iconic characters from low to high level with Pathfinder Beta rules included. Might give playtesting more of a push. Might just be cool to see them re-imagined.That could be nifty... but every time someone says "WEB ENHANCEMENT" I get the twitchy eye and the jumpy leg... those things stress me out. Against my better judgement, though, I'll bounce the idea around back here in THE PIT and see what happens...
I say make that Iconics compilation product we have all been begging for and then sell it to us. Then you have no worries about a web enhancement eating up time and energy from the editors without it contributing to the bottom line. I know I would buy an iconics compilation product and there is a thread around here somewhere to that effect.
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... but every time someone says "WEB ENHANCEMENT" I get the twitchy eye and the jumpy leg...
Select 12 loyal volunteer forum members to each stat out an iconic and turn that into a web enhancement. There are quite a few folks that would jump at the chance to stat up an iconic using only the PFRPG rules.
-Skeld
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I think Paizo is going to need some downloadable easy-to-play 1st level characters for their Pathfinder Society games for when new players arrive at a session without a character sheet or necessarily any idea how to play.
I think the Iconic characters would be good in this regard, as they're recognisable, memorable, and very Paizo! Let new players walk away from a game session with something they'll recognise again when they flip through the pages of a Paizo product in the store - "Hey, that's the character I played at that Society something game!"
If these were available in every level from 1st-12th, then players who don't want to fuss with character choice just download the next version when they level up. It might be interesting for other Pathfinder Society players to occasionally rub shoulders with familiar faces such as Valeros, Merisiel, Seone and the like.
... but every time someone says "WEB ENHANCEMENT" I get the twitchy eye and the jumpy leg...Select 12 loyal volunteer forum members to each stat out an iconic and turn that into a web enhancement. There are quite a few folks that would jump at the chance to stat up an iconic using only the PFRPG rules.
-Skeld
I call Sajan!
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Yes, but what bloodline do you give to Seoni? Arcane would be my guess, to keep her familiar around, if nothing else, but still, which one? Destined? Draconic? What?
And Valeros's feat selection might be a bit interesting, as well as his weapon training choices. He'd have to split his focus between heavy and light blades.
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While having people from the boards contribute is a good idea, I'd actually prefer the creative minds driving Pathfinder to take the helm. Hecks. The iconics needs not even be direct conversions. They could be rebuilt from the ground up with total embrace to the changes with Patfinder - classes, races, feats, etc. (In any event, Paizo seems to have already openined the door on such a notion.)
1. Seoni? No familiar. Why not an Auran bloodline?
2. Ezren? Arcane bond his staff?
3. Seelah? No mount. Her sword?
BTW, James. Twitchy eye? Very visual. : )
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While having people from the boards contribute is a good idea, I'd actually prefer the creative minds driving Pathfinder to take the helm.
I would probably prefer this as well, but the creative minds at Paizo seem to be pretty busy already. I hate to put pressure on them to develop free stuff that can be easily formed by creative minds here on the boards.
I would imagine they could come up with the iconic concept ground rules though.
-Skeld
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I think Paizo is going to need some downloadable easy-to-play 1st level characters for their Pathfinder Society games for when new players arrive at a session without a character sheet or necessarily any idea how to play.
SURE! Show off the new rules a little bit, it doesn't seem as sexy until you see it all in a new re-imaged stat block. Another vote for this good idea.
-DM Jeff
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Contributor
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It's probably a neat idea, but I agree that it should wait until August 2009, so the guys have time to do it. A year sounds like almost enough.
The problem with web enhancements for the Pit isn't just that they take up time better spent doing something else (something for one of the many products, for example), but they require coordination with the art side, which is ALSO backed up with a lot of stuff to do.
So why not just let the fans do it? Well, to be brutally honest, that doesn't save the guys any time at all. At worse, it takes them longer to get it done.
Remember everyone, just because the guys are completely awesome and make something LOOK easy doesn't mean it IS easy. Usually quite the opposite. So let's sit back and give them a chance to put out the stuff we REALLY want (like new PF APs, PF modules, PF Companions, PF chronicles stuff, and even PFRPG stuff) and worry about peripheral stuff later. :)
The subject says it all. How about Paizo making free downloads of all iconic characters from low to high level with Pathfinder Beta rules included. Might give playtesting more of a push. Might just be cool to see them re-imagined.
This is an excellent idea; however, I'd pay for an Pathfinder Iconics sourcebook if it was detailed with background information for the charcters and showed the characters progressions from low to mid to high-level.
2. Ezren? Arcane bond his staff?3. Seelah? No mount. Her sword?
Why do these suggestions cause my mind to go straight to the gutter? :D
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Why do these suggestions cause my mind to go straight to the gutter? :D
2. Ezren? Arcane bond his staff?3. Seelah? No mount. Her sword?
Only after you posted did I see the double meaning that could come from my words.
*dirty*
*dirty*
You have a dirty subconscious. Mildly better than a dirty conscious. ;)
You have a dirty subconscious. Mildly better than a dirty conscious. ;)Why do these suggestions cause my mind to go straight to the gutter? :D
2. Ezren? Arcane bond his staff?3. Seelah? No mount. Her sword?
Only after you posted did I see the double meaning that could come from my words.
*dirty*
*dirty*
Don't worry. I have one of those too! :P
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Good thing Seoni has a familiar. :)
Okay. I've been a blind dolt here. When first I saw the statement that Seoni has a familiar, I went to the character sheet(s) and couldn't find it anywhere. Then I perused the various pictures for an appearance of a familiar. Again, I couldn't find any. Granted - her familiar is CLEARLY listed on her character sheet(s). I just missed the listing. But are there any pictures of her familiar with her anywhere in the campaign? It seems to me that she could have survived just as well without one (and for PRPG, likely will).
Interestingly, Ezren also has a familiar, and Seelah a mount, and Harsk a companion. But again, I've yet to see a picture with any of their special critter companions depicted. (Hecks, when Seelah leads the group away from Korvosa, it's on foot.)
So, while the character sheets honor 3.5, the pictures seem more to depict the heroes in the PRPG setting.
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Creative Director
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It's true; with the exception of Lini's animal companion, we don't often bother to show mounts or familiars or the like. The main reason for this is that there's generally a limit to the amount of complexity we can ask artists to depict in a half-page illustration; usually, we have one or two iconics fighting a monster or something and that's that. Sometimes we ask for more, but as a general rule the more you ask for, the more that things can have errors. SO! We tend to err on the side of simplicity for the iconics, and that means that their companions and familiars and mounts and the like are generally left out of illustrations.
As for Lini and her snow leopard: two reasons there.
1) Of all the 11 classes, the druid is the one that's most tied to a companion.
2) Lini's a gnome, and by having a snow leopard follow her around, we've got an automatic and familiar-sized shape that can help establish her diminutive scale.
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OK, let's see if I can get this to format somewhere remotely decently - Valeros under Alpha 3, at level 14. (HP generated by max at 1st level plus half of max thereafter, plus +1 hp/level in favored class)
Valeros, NG Male Human Fighter 14
Str 22 (+6) - (14 +6 +2 - racial)
Dex 22 (+6) - (15 +4 +3 - levels)
Con 16 (+3) - (12 +4)
Int 13 (+1) - (13)
Wis 08 (-1) - (08)
Cha 10 (+0) - (10)
Fort +14 - (9 +3 +2)
Ref +12 - (4 +6 +2)
Will +5 (+9 vs. Fear effects) - (4 -1 +2 +4*)
Hit Dice 14d10+42
Hit Points 137
Init +10
Speed 30'
AC 32 (+11 armor, +6 Dex, +3 deflection, +1 TWD, +1 Dodge)
Touch 20, Flat-Footed 26
BAB +14 (3 attacks), CMB +20
Melee
+3 frost cold iron longsword - +28/+23/+18, 1d8+16, 17-20/x2, plus 1d6 cold damage per hit
OR
+3 frost cold iron longsword - +26/+21/+16, 1d8+16, 17-20/x2, plus 1d6 cold damage per hit
AND
+2 short sword - +25/+20/+15, 1d6+7, 19-20/x2
Once per round, if both weapons hit the same target, it takes an additional 1d10+9 damage
Ranged
+1 composite longbow - +22/+17/+12, 1d8+6, 20/x3, Range 110'
Languages - Common (Taldane), Infernal
Skills
Climb +23, Intimidate +17, Ride +23, Swim +23
Feats
Big Game Hunter (bonus)
Improved Initiative - H
Weapon Focus (longsword) - 1
Two-Weapon Fighting - Ftr 1
Dodge - Ftr 2
Two-Weapon Defense - 3
Weapon Specialization (longsword) - Ftr 4
Power Attack - 5
Weapon Focus (short sword) - Ftr 6
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting - 7
Greater Weapon Focus (longsword) - Ftr 8
Improved Critical (longsword) - 9
Double Slice - Ftr 10
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting - 11
Greater Weapon Specialization (longsword) - Ftr 12
Quick Draw - 13
Two-Weapon Rend - Ftr 14
Class Features
Bravery (Ex): +4 to Will saves vs. Fear effects
Armor Training (Ex): +3 to armor's AC bonus and max Dex bonus, and -3 to all armor skill checks
Weapon Training (Ex): Adds bonuses to attack and damage with the following types: Heavy Blades +3, Light Blades +2, Bows +1
Combat Gear potion of cure moderate wounds (3); Other Gear +3 mithral breastplate, +3 frost cold iron longsword, +2 short sword, +1 composite longbow (+4 Str) with 20 arrows, silver dagger, amulet of health +4, belt of giant strength +6, gloves of dexterity +4, ring of protection +3, cloak of resistance +2, backpack, lucky tankard, rations (6), 50 ft. silk rope, 50 pp, 17 gp
* * * * *
Design Notes: Armor Mastery eliminates his skill check penalties from a mithral breastplate, as well as allowing him to use his full Dex mod.
Combat Expertise under Pathfinder does him no more good than Dodge, in fact it hurts him in comparison (He only has an Int modifier of +1, after all.) Dodge gives him the same AC bonus without an attack penalty.
Double Strike and Two-Weapon Rend are the new TWF-style feats from the Alpha so they were the obvious (and almost mandatory) additions to his feat list.
Infernal is his other language... well, because it was the only one I could remotely think of. Andoran only has Common listed for languages.
And yes, I am aware of the issue with his magic items being 3.5. I still haven't run the math to accommodate the increased equipment assumptions of Pathfinder (185,000 gp @ level 14 vs. 3.5's 150,000) with the expense of switching the belt, amulet, and gloves into a belt of physical perfection.
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Oh, Merisiel poses an interesting problem - with the Elven racial bonus to Intelligence now, is the character concept of her being slightly dim now necessitating her starting Int pre-modifiers be a 7 instead of an 8 so she would still have a penalty after racial mods (9/-1)? That'd free up 2 points under point buy, and where would one put those? Strength? Charisma? Maybe up her starting Wisdom from 13 to a 14?
Oh, Merisiel poses an interesting problem - with the Elven racial bonus to Intelligence now, is the character concept of her being slightly dim now necessitating her starting Int pre-modifiers be a 7 instead of an 8 so she would still have a penalty after racial mods (9/-1)? That'd free up 2 points under point buy, and where would one put those? Strength? Charisma? Maybe up her starting Wisdom from 13 to a 14?Well, you have a couple of options:
- Play the ball where it lies. By the standards of her race she would still fall into the "dim" catagory. (This would be my suggestion.)
- Given the reaction that she has (understandably) evoked on these boards, it would think that Charisma would benefit most from these points.
The subject says it all. How about Paizo making free downloads of all iconic characters from low to high level with Pathfinder Beta rules included. Might give playtesting more of a push. Might just be cool to see them re-imagined.
You know. In the long run, game stats are less interesting then character stories.
What could also be cool would be Paizo getting a novel or two written about the Iconic characters (and selling it under their Planet Stories Imprint :) ).
Lem looks like a halfling. A Much, Much more convincing halfling than Lidia, the WOTC one. In more than half the illustrations I think Lidia is a human.
Lini looks like a gnome, even without the Leopard but the Leopard helps.
Remember everyone, just because the guys are completely awesome and make something LOOK easy doesn't mean it IS easy. Usually quite the opposite. So let's sit back and give them a chance to put out the stuff we REALLY want (like new PF APs, PF modules, PF Companions, PF chronicles stuff, and even PFRPG stuff) and worry about peripheral stuff later. :)
That implies that the staff in the "pit" are to be allowed to sleep, eat, etc. :P
After all, "Slavery was not actually repealed for RPG writers/artists/etc."
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The only Iconic with a clearly defined animal companion is Lini the Gnome Druid. The only real reason I mention Seoni's lizard familiar is that it would give her a clearly defined sorcerous bloodline. "Dragon" makes it a lot easier to choose rather than the crapshoot we have wiothout it.
Indeed. For the most part, Seoni doesn't have any weird body parts, so it rules out a lot of bloodlines. I seem to remember Seoni being considered special or something.. so there might be an argument for her being Destined. *shrugs*
I would like to see some of the artists here to draw Seoni as all the different bloodlines.
Me too!
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I would like to see some of the artists here to draw Seoni as all the different bloodlines.Me too!
While it's a cool idea, some of us would like the Iconics to be more then pregenerated characters, we'd like them to be character part of Golarion, perhaps even see some love in fiction. Creating 10 different versions of Seoni doesn't work well with that desire.
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Oh, Merisiel poses an interesting problem - with the Elven racial bonus to Intelligence now, is the character concept of her being slightly dim now necessitating her starting Int pre-modifiers be a 7 instead of an 8 so she would still have a penalty after racial mods (9/-1)? That'd free up 2 points under point buy, and where would one put those? Strength? Charisma? Maybe up her starting Wisdom from 13 to a 14?Well, you have a couple of options:
- Play the ball where it lies. By the standards of her race she would still fall into the "dim" catagory. (This would be my suggestion.)
- Given the reaction that she has (understandably) evoked on these boards, it would think that Charisma would benefit most from these points.
Option 1 was more of what I was thinking of.
Also, with skill consolidation, she only has 7 skills under Pathfinder, which would mean she could max them out. I thought the point of Merisiel as a character was to show that even sub-optimal rogues could still make for decent characters, though, so should I add on more skills? Maybe Appraise and a little bit of Diplomacy (just for the Gather Info function - I know Merisiel's no diplomat.)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Creating 10 different versions of Seoni doesn't work well with that desire.However, Creating 10 different Seoni's does... ;]Moody Seoni
Emo Seoni
Schoolgirl Seoni
Vixen Seoni
Happy Seoni
Redneck Seoni
Drunk Seoni
Slutty Seoni
Prude SeoniNeed one more...
Naughty Nurse Seoni?
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The subject says it all. How about Paizo making free downloads of all iconic characters from low to high level with Pathfinder Beta rules included. Might give playtesting more of a push. Might just be cool to see them re-imagined.You know. In the long run, game stats are less interesting then character stories.
What could also be cool would be Paizo getting a novel or two written about the Iconic characters (and selling it under their Planet Stories Imprint :) ).
Know what, Lord Fyre? I concur completely. Hecks. Throw in some character stats at the end of a book. You know - now that you've read 'em, play 'em.
But in the end, stats or not, I'd really like to see the landscape of Golarion take shape through novels.
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The problem with Lidda & Lem is Lidda is the new version of halflings (ie let's get away from Tolkien hobbits) where Lem is more in line with what we all "grew up with" as fas halflings (& NO not the halfling that was on the 80s D&D cartoon, remember him!! ha ha).
I agree thou, Lidda is almost a short human in most pics I've seen her in. Had a friend say once 'Wow, what a hot halfling' during a character creation as he was flipping through a book. ha ha
product push----I for one would love to read about the adventures the "Runelords gang" could have in a novel :)