Were I doing Crimson Throne over again... I would have required the authors to do more with the Gray Maidens, I suspect. Ah well.
Let's fix that, shall we? What side quests or encounters have you run or would run using the Grey Maidens?
I think that stopping the Grey Maidens as they are grabbing a potential is one idea.
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The heroes are going to eventually defeat and unmask one of them, right? I'm going to be noting female NPCs who don't seem to have a later on-stage presence as potential Maidens. So far, I haven't seen any that meet the requirements of skill with a sword and extreme beauty, but might be tailoring some of the otherwise throwaway Sable Company or Korvosan Guard members they meet for this purpose.
One of my players has a scumbag criminal father in his past. It was suggested that Dad be a recruiter/slaver for the Maidens movement. I'm going to toy with that a bit.
I suspect that "Crown of Fangs" will give us some material (or at least barracks/training locations) with which to work.
I have a PC's sister trying to join. I have another's unrequited love already in training. I have a third who's courting a hellknight who's about to transfer in. At least there'll be personal connections. :)
I think that at least one of the three will be rejected, but nobody will talk about what happened to her. At some point the PCs can do a big jailbreak and get her (and a bunch of other grey maiden rejects) out and free. I figure that this will have to happen after the plague but before the assault on Old Korvosa.
Creative Director
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Were I doing Crimson Throne over again... I would have required the authors to do more with the Gray Maidens, I suspect. Ah well.Let's fix that, shall we? What side quests or encounters have you run or would run using the Grey Maidens?
I think that stopping the Grey Maidens as they are grabbing a potential is one idea.
You don't want to stop the Gray Maidens before the last adventure, though. The story of the Gray Maidens comes to a pretty satisfying conclusion in there.
What I'd change is have the Gray Maidens showing up as early as "Edge of Anarchy," and then I'd probably have the PCs have an entire subadventure against them between "Seven Days to the Grave" and "Escape from Old Korvosa," where the PCs end up directly confronting them and end up defeating them but become fugitives who are forced to seek hiding in Old Korvosa or something...
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Creative Director
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The heroes are going to eventually defeat and unmask one of them, right? I'm going to be noting female NPCs who don't seem to have a later on-stage presence as potential Maidens. So far, I haven't seen any that meet the requirements of skill with a sword and extreme beauty, but might be tailoring some of the otherwise throwaway Sable Company or Korvosan Guard members they meet for this purpose.
One of my players has a scumbag criminal father in his past. It was suggested that Dad be a recruiter/slaver for the Maidens movement. I'm going to toy with that a bit.
I suspect that "Crown of Fangs" will give us some material (or at least barracks/training locations) with which to work.
Well...
The leader of the Gray Maidens, Sabina, ends up in a pretty interesting situation in the last adventure. You'll note that her alignment is not evil, in other words; as things steadily get worse in Korvosa, the chances of her seeking escape from the queen increase...
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Ooooooh... nice. My vacation project a week or so back was statting said character up as a Warblade from "Book of Nine Swords"--rather than the present core class--with an eye towards making the buddy you've said would be accompanying said character more difficult to hit and damage. Next month, we'll see if I was on the right track. You guys provided me with a great promotional miniature two or three years ago that'll finally see use in this campaign!
I plan to introduce them in the first adventure. There are rummors of a special bodyguard for the Queen that the king had agreed to set up and is being trained at a location outside Korvosa.
They will move to the Castle in the 2nd adventure but the PC's will probably catch a glimpse of some of them in the middle of Edge of Anarchy after the riots start.
I plan to have them have a couple of "run-ins" with them other than the main adventures...
Are there Gray Maiden Irregulars? I have a fifth-level wizard from House Ornelos who has been somewhat involved with the party and she has been impressed with the Gray Maidens and wants to sign up. On the one hand she sucks with a sword and has no proficiency with plate mail, but on the other hand she'd be a real asset to the group. I thought I'd stick her in a hat of disguise and send her out as an officer.
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Creative Director
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Are there Gray Maiden Irregulars? I have a fifth-level wizard from House Ornelos who has been somewhat involved with the party and she has been impressed with the Gray Maidens and wants to sign up. On the one hand she sucks with a sword and has no proficiency with plate mail, but on the other hand she'd be a real asset to the group. I thought I'd stick her in a hat of disguise and send her out as an officer.
Fortunately for your wizard... the Gray Maidens are pretty strict about who they let in. As in, no irregulars; fighters with skills at swords and shields and plate mail only.
Fortunately for your wizard... the Gray Maidens are pretty strict about who they let in. As in, no irregulars; fighters with skills at swords and shields and plate mail only.
Meh, it's an NPC, and a PC's older sister at that. I was going to use the recruiting to crank up the pathos once they learned more about the Gray Maidens. Well, I guess she applied and got rejected, and then the same thing happened to her as to all the other rejects (ie she got stuck in the basement of the Longacre Building). They can rescue her later.
Maybe they'll find her spellbook among Togomor's stuff. :D
I'm not sure a spellcaster would do well in that armor. :)
Agreed. That's the beauty of a hat of disguise though; she could look like she's wearing the armour but still be her usual wizardy self.
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I plan to introduce them in the first adventure. There are rummors of a special bodyguard for the Queen that the king had agreed to set up and is being trained at a location outside Korvosa.
Close to what I'm planning. When they pay a little visit to the Queen I'm going to have a whole field of them training off to the side of the castle grounds for a good visual.
-DM Jeff
Any more suggestions on the Gray Maidens. I am at a point in my campaign (near the end of Seven Days to the Grave) where I'd like to (need to actually) insert a relatively significant side plot. The PCs have run through everything in the adventure and are still 5th level. I want to get them to 6th before sending them after Dr. Davalus, Rolth, and Andasain.
So, right now, this is what I'm thinking. One of the players just moved, and his character (Aleff) is a member of the Guard and kind of a information gatherer/do gooder (would have taken up the mantle of blackjack, for sure). So, he's becoming an NPC, and I had him run off to try to find out more information on the location of Davalus and the Queen's Physicians after the party found the incriminating evidence on the Direption. The rest of the party went off to help out at Carowyn Manor. So, when they get back, I'm thinking that they will find that their buddy, Aleff, is missing.
The plan, right now, is that Aleff got snatched up by the Gray Maidens for asking too many questions and thrown in a cell in Longacre. So, the party needs to go in and find him / break him out. In the process, they'll discover a group of "failed" Gray Maidens. I had already planted a seed that some women had been disappearing from the streets of Korvosa, and the party already wants to figure out what's up with that, so that should be a nice conclusion of that line of investigation.
I have some other loose ends that I'd like to work in. Aleff has met Lady Arkona. One of the other characters has the silver knife... so maybe she is the person that lets the party know that Aleff was captured. I didn't like Eries Yelloweye being a wererat, so I actually had it be Lady Arkona, disguised as Eries, giving the party information. They have no idea it is Lady Arkona, though, but I gave Eries a personality trait that I want to try to, at some point, have Lady Arkona use so that it becomes obvious that it was her. Not sure when to give this part away... probably not until she's an enemy, as a "reveal".
The other thing is the Hellknights... I'd really love to do something with them. It is kind of unsatisfying to me that they just wander off off-stage, so to speak. Especially since they have that questionable morality thing that I'd love to play on with the characters. It would be cool to have the characters have to deal with the Hellknights, too, and the changing loyalty of the Hellknights to Korvosa. I can see the Hellknights becoming opponents of Ileosa, maybe even allies of the Arkonas or maybe just Cressida or another noble family. Maybe House Jaggaere decides that they don't like Ileosa's reign and puts it's extensive resources towards hiring the Hellknights to oppose her.
Any ideas out there? Has anyone put detail to Longacre? Or have any ideas on how a raid on Longacre would go?
My main gripe with the Grey Maidens is where the heck do they all come from - apparently there's enough of them to replace the Sable Company and threaten the Guard itself. How many hot swordswomen willing to get roped into such a scheme can there be anyway?
Also, agreed on doing more with the Hellknights. It seems like a "well we haven't come up with the p-class yet so we wouldn't want one to appear statted up" dodge.
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My main gripe with the Grey Maidens is where the heck do they all come from - apparently there's enough of them to replace the Sable Company and threaten the Guard itself. How many hot swordswomen willing to get roped into such a scheme can there be anyway?
OK, my group is halfway through Scarwall, and up till now I've been able to explain just enough of it away to avoid this very question from the players.
We're all pretty sure Ileosa didn't get them from a modeling agency. So...assuming the Queen isn't just so charismatic to have a few hundred good-looking swordswomen surrender their life and features to this cause, here's what I assumed.
* All the former concubines of the king were recruited first.
* Then she had them quietly 'turn' a bunch of common guards and Sable company folks to their thought off-screen.
* She has family connections back in Cheliax and had powerful folks there recuit a ton for her and ship them up.
* By the end, I even had a dozen or so female Hellknights 'jump ship' when their boss withdrew, to continue the fight for the queen.
So, now we have some #'s to think on. Now, how were all these savvy women pressed into this?
So, assuming it's a combination of playing on their sense of duty, really catchy brainwashing, and some charm magic for good measure, you can kind of start putting it together enough so players just accept it.
My only pondering these days is what happens to them after Pathfinder 12 if the Queen is tossed out. Interesting times ahead.
-DM Jeff
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* All the former concubines of the king were recruited first.
* Then she had them quietly 'turn' a bunch of common guards and Sable company folks to their thought off-screen.
* She has family connections back in Cheliax and had powerful folks there recuit a ton for her and ship them up.
* By the end, I even had a dozen or so female Hellknights 'jump ship' when their boss withdrew, to continue the fight for the queen.
I just finished making a handout poster that my PCs will find in the guard barracks when bringing Verik back, offering female fighters quicker advancement, better training and weapons, and personal interactions with the queen. When the PCs meet to get the Eel's end mission, this will be the topic of conversation overheard as they approach Kroft's door.
It doesn't take much to imagine that the Sable Co. got similar posters, as did taverns/guildhall frequented by adventurers/mercs
I am at a point in my campaign (near the end of Seven Days to the Grave) where I'd like to (need to actually) insert a relatively significant side plot. The PCs have run through everything in the adventure and are still 5th level. I want to get them to 6th
Ding! Your PCs find a couple extra thousand XP and are now 6th level. Don't fret over XP.
As for me, the Grey Maidens came from the Sable Company and the Korvosan Guard - thus weakening both of them. It's also why the leader of the Sable Company is so PO'd - one of them was his sister (introduced briefly at Trinia's beheading). And the Queen has brought some of them from home. Seems to have sastified my players.
I didn't care for the treatment of the Hell Knights in the campaign so never introduced them.
My PCs advanced through the first part of Edge of Anarchy by avoiding some of the fights entirely, so I'm going to need a session or two of filler material (they're right before the bit where the book says they should be level 3). Since foreshadowing is awesome, I'd love to work in something like the Grey Maidens. I may have Cressida mention that she's already shorthanded without the queen transferring women from the Korvosan Guard to her personal bodyguard.
The PCs were also a bit put off with Vencarlo, so I wanted to involve him as well.
One thing I am deathly curious about is the brainwashing program to create new Grey Maidens.
What are the initiation rites necessary to join?
Where and how do they train (seperate from the Korvosan Guard and the Sable Company)
Does Lorthact or the devils have some stake in this program?
I don't have my book with me, but I was thinking about putting their facility in one of the upper levels of the pyramid.
In my campaign, I may have these women be "augmented" with forced pacts with devils to make them far more potent than any human army.
Horrible ritual disfigurement will take place as well. The woman will be so broken by the time they take their vows that they will not object to cruel and permanent rites that would please even Kazavon's dark patron.
The end result will be a fanatically devoted, fiendishly augmented army of armored female soldiers who would die for their living goddess: Ileosa. I may even have them address each other with a unique, but slightly obscene salute reminicent of Nazi Germany.
Of course, one of Ileosa's tasks for her new army might be the burning of books and heretics who do not properly worship her as the living manifestation of an extremely ancient dark power.
Perhaps Ileosa may transform Old Korvosa into a death camp to hold rebels and dissidents. Horrible screams can be heard from that direction as people are slowly tortured to death or transformed into something much worse.
A frontal assault on the castle proper is impossible. A thick gray fog surrounds the skeletal towers of Castle Korvosa consisting of the writhing spirits of Ileosa's countless victims. Kept on the material plane by the sheer power of queen's evil, these spirits sap the youth and life essence of anyone who tries to pass through uninvited.
Of course, all this is done for one sole purpose: the ultimate ascension of Ileosa to god-dom
Anyone have any other ideas?
I introduced the Grey Maidens at the end of Edge in epilogue and during a chat with Grau Soldado. The captain mentioned that Queen Ileosa is searching for willing maidens to form her own palace guard and special unit.
So one of my players a female Varisian fighter wants to join and see what the queen is up to!
IMHO she won't pass the tests of loyalty to the queen and Sabina knows that she is an agent of the Korvosan Guard, so she very likely to disappear. But that would be somewhat hard, wouldn't it?
As she will be alone in the castle, perhaps two Grey Maidens try (half heartedly on my part) to catch her and pu her in the dungeons below. I don't know...
Any suggestion?
IMHO she won't pass the tests of loyalty to the queen and Sabina knows that she is an agent of the Korvosan Guard, so she very likely to disappear. But that would be somewhat hard, wouldn't it?
As she will be alone in the castle, perhaps two Grey Maidens try (half heartedly on my part) to catch her and pu her in the dungeons below. I don't know...
Any suggestion?
You could have an investigation reveal that people seem to disappear for great lengths of time, suggesting a long training period outside of town.
You could have her rejected out of hand, without ever beginning training, by a recruiter who knows immediately that she doesn't fit the queen's arbitrary standards of beauty.
You could have her fail the tests and then throw her in the dungeons beneath the Longacre Building. Play it out. Then ask the player what she wants to do. Perhaps the rest of the party can hear about it. Maybe they'll buy some scrolls or whatever and break her out, though that would a) be expensive and b) put them in opposition to the queen earlier than the path expects.
I think that the third option would be the most interesting, personally.
Have Field Marshall Kroft explain that everyone who went to the Gray Maidens has never been heard from again.
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Hello all, well I've come to a similar point in CoCT as the adventurers have had just about enough of creepy masked ladies in stormtrooper armour. The plague has gripped the city and they've dealt with the vamps in Wracker's Alley. Its a five person party (lvl 4). They've done some investigating by questioning family members of those that were drafted and of course found that once admitted they had never heard from them. So far they have not actually tried jumping one of the maidens as PC paranoia has played in nicely (they don't think the maidens are human). I made an off-hand reference to a training ground outside of Korvosa on the south shore across from Veldraine. The party seized this and has decided that they want to mount an expedition and scope it out. Luckily I delayed the party with Wracker's Alley until I could come up with some semblance of a plan.
So what I've brainstormed thus far is that there was an abandoned Sable Marine outpost, Valur's Eye, that has served as a lighthouse for the last century to warn ships away from the Lasting Churn (the whirlpool of Reefclaws mentioned in EoA). Ileosa w Togomor reclaimed the outpost and converted it into a secluded facility for Gray Maiden 'processing.' Togomor with his expertise has created a regiment of drugs, torture to literally break minds and then program them to design. It is a non-magical process though requires various exotic drugs such as shiver and others. This program is run by several imps and perhaps one chain devil or other baddie. Togomor might be around but obviously a confrontation with him at this point would be TPK. I wouldn't mind throwing out the name just to foreshadow him later.
The party is told of a recent inductee to the GMs that the family wants to retrieve after hearing from others what happened to their daughters/sisters. The party heads out of the city to Veldraine to meet Obed, the former lighthouse keeper who is bitter after losing his position. Obed is however under surveillance by a group of volunteer citizen's watch. The party either loses them or dispatches these toughs quietly. Obed can suggest either to smuggle themselves aboard a supply ship bound for Valur's Eye or to sneak into the compound via the sea caves that connect to the dungeons though requires going through midden heap (where there are probably bodies of failed Gray Maidens). After some exploration in the interrogation wards the party finds out a) how the GMs are 'created b)rescues the half-processed recruit. The party won't be able to shut the operation down as they're vastly outnumbered but will answer some of their questions.
So was wondering if anyone had any thoughts. Do you think this might preemptively blow up the plot of the AP?
One thing I am deathly curious about is the brainwashing program to create new Grey Maidens.
I think back to when I went into Army Basic Training and the kind of folks I met there... (These are examples of "volunteers")
A. 17-18, Fresh out of High School with no plans or money to go to college and ready to be on my own.B. Mid 20s to early 30s, I need to change my life and this seems like a promising concept; physical fitness, a paycheck, see the world, and get money for further schooling.
C. Do Not Pass GO: Various criminal records, go in the Army or go to jail. (Unpaid child support was a big one.)
D. Empty Promises: I talked to a recruiter and he said... ( LIES! Get it in WRITING! ) I would get to pick where I was stationed and I choose Japan/Italy/etc., it's gonna be awesome. Various things were promised depending on how creative your recruiter was, fancy exotic locations was just one of them. (The locations are possible, but usually involved a job opening and a long list of high ranking individuals with first choice.)
E. One or more of the following: I love guns, I love hunting, I love violence, I wanna jump out of planes, I wanna blow things up, Camoflague is hawt, I wanna drive a HUMMV, I can't get a job, There are lots of D&D players in the military, etc.
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IMO Once in the military you fall into one of two categories, you're either "Touched" or "Traumatized" (there ARE other smaller categories)...
Touched - Those who enjoy every single bit of everything they encounter no matter how abusive or how many hoops they may have to jump through. A touched individual will listen to and perform pretty much every task you request of them with little to no reward even offered. (Movie examples: EVERYONE in Platoon except Charlie Sheen, Rambo, Chet(Bill Paxton) in Weird Science, Animal Mother in Full Metal Jacket.) Also includes a good 90% of all D&D adventurers, lol.
Traumatized - Those of us who realize common sense was not invented by the Army, nor is it apart of their common practice. Unfortunately, this realization comes too late and you have literally signed your life (away) to the government for several years. The phrase "What in the HECK was I thinking?!" comes to mind frequently, even more so during the first week to 2 months. (Movie examples: Private Pyle & Joker in Full Metal Jacket, Bill Murray & Harold Ramos in Stripes.)
Mind you all that is MY opinion, others may vary. It is an attempt to share MY experiences with 'military' training/brainwashing. This doesn't even get into the folks that actually end up in a war/conflict and how much they enjoy or hate having been there, that's a different kind of "Touched" and "Traumatized", niether really being a good thing.
This could be applied to Grey Maidens or Hell Knights. Hell Knights being the zealots that they are would most likely fall under "Touched".
You could have her fail the tests and then throw her in the dungeons beneath the Longacre Building. Play it out. Then ask the player what she wants to do. Perhaps the rest of the party can hear about it. Maybe they'll buy some scrolls or whatever and break her out, though that would a) be expensive and b) put them in opposition to the queen earlier than the path expects.
I did this (except incarcerated in the dungeons of Castle Korvosa) when one of my PCs wanted to become a Gray Maiden. Actually letting the character pass the tests would open up too many problems, IMO. This way, the group realized something was amiss, but couldn't exactly be sure what.
What eventually happened was that the PC managed to break out on her own, using her Soulknife ability to create a sword inside the lock of her cell, then breaking out all the other hopefuls that had been rejected along with her, among much commotion and guards being hot on their heels.
Sadly our group's play sessions have not continued further since then (and likely won't, due to RL commitments across the board), but it would have been great fun to play out the fallout from this escape.. Plus the PCs were currently planning to blow up one of the Arkona warehouses at the time; also something that could lead to a lot of fun roleplaying :)
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I inserted an interlude (a party at the Carowyn Manor) during Edge of Anarchy. The queen was promised to show up, to "comfort the nobility, and remind them of their responsibilities in these troubling times." When the Queen showed up, she had a retinue of young warrior women enter first forming an honour guard, wearing the masks of the grey maidens. Then entered Sabina Merrin, (unmasked, at which point Vencarlo made a surreptitious exit). Followed by the Queen.
She announced that she had little comfort to give her people in these trying times, as she had discovered from the new royal physician Doctor Davaulus that her husband had been poisoned. She even knew the identity of the assassin, and was offering a bounty on the girl's head.
At which point Grau Soldado shows up (sneaking through the bushes, Perception Check 20 to realise he is trying to keep out of Sabina's eyeline). He requests the PCs return to the Citadel immediately to meet with Field Captain Cressida Kroft.
This lead into the shingles chase.
The Dwarf Paladin wondered: "Where did the queen get all of these personal guards so quickly after her husbands death?"
GM response: "Good question. Maybe you should follow that up sometime."
Also my Elf Wizard PC mentioned he had a sister in the military, I thought it would be good to have her be a member of the Grey Maidens too. Now to think about how to incorporate such into an adventure...
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So I finished this side-trek yesterday with my group it seemed to go well.
I made some adjustments to my plan. In the background of Valur's Eye (the fortress that the Gray Maidens were using) I decided that it had been built over top of an old derro complex that had been sealed for centuries. The presence of the complex had led to the fortress holding a reputation for bizarre events and soldiers going mad. Rolth had obtained research from his derro minions on the mind altering properties of derro fungus and had passed this on to Togomor. The bloatmage using this information and other drugs notably shiver had created a regiment to break minds to the purposes of the Queen and her infernal allies.
The party entered the dungeons of Valur's Eye via the sea-caves and soon found vast amounts of the strange derro fungus growing in the storage vaults. They recalled seeing this same fungus from the Dead Warrens. After dealing with Fungal Crawlers and various traps to keep out intruders they discovered the torture chambers and cells where Gray Maidens were being processed. The party confronted two imp surgeons and what they assumed to be a human guard but soon found out was in fact a bearded devil. A good old big combat in the torture chamber followed as cauldrons of burning pitch and fiery glaives made life difficult for the party. They defeated one imp and the bearded devil but the other imp escaped to get help from upstairs. The party found Togomor's notes in code and found a few lobotomized/drugged Gray Maidens in their cells. They rescued the one that they had come looking for even though she was in a catatonic stupor. The party looked around finding a pit leading down to the old derro temple but upon hearing the shlunk-shlunk of full plate armour coming down the stairs they made a quick get away leaving obstacles in their path behind them.
The party seems satisfied that they learned the nature of the Gray Maidens and now aware of an infernal influence in the events seem to think that the Queen is more dangerous and powerful than they supposed. So it would seem that this trek revealed enough to satisfy their curiousity but are also aware they don't have enough power to take on the force threatening Korvosa head-on. Seems to be a win-win.
Wasn't there a thread where one GM had the PC's thinking that the Queen was magically "feminizing" the male soldiers in the castle?
I still kind of like that ominous threat. (Might steal it when I run COCT...or at least imply it).
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I began the introduction of the Maidens by actually introducing a ward to one of the players, one of the Lambs who was old enough to be just about ready to be put to the gator. She appealed to the player, served as mentor to his sister (who'd been his link to Lamm). She was very focused on swordplay and practicing, and had some natural ability.
Then I introduced the recruiting posters for the Maidens following the end of book 1. Shortly after that, the ward approached the player and asked him for sponsorship into the new guard. He's agreed, happy to have something to do with her, and the wheels are turning now...