Forum Suggestion - Burn Them

Physically set fire to the servers. Then set fire to the media. Maybe even write hate mail about the boards and burn that. Please? I don't want to get into how bad the boards are from a usability standpoint. I realized that I am (hopefully) covering ground that someone else has mentioned before, but really, unless you a) have a lot of time and want to manually search the boards, or b) it happens to be right near the top, how would you even search for a thread? How about more information on what people are thinking about Combat Feats in the Pathfinder RPG Alpha 2? I'm not interested in getting replies with a bunch of links or anything, but if I'm in the boards and go to the section "Forum Search" and type in "Combat Feats" (with the quotes) in the "Search Messageboards" textbox, it drives me to here. Ummm...no. Maybe? Please? (Just don't put Jason or any of the others working on Alpha 3 on it...let someone else do it).

/me sits back and waits on the flamage that is sure to come...

I'm not really sure what your looking for here.

This is essentially a problem with having a lot of posts of a very large message board and you typing in something that might well come up in a quarter of the threads ever made.

Instead of claiming that the servers should be destroyed why don't explain what it is you'd actually like to happen. Then there is at least some small chance that it will be implemented at some point.

Hmmm... what’s the problem exactly? In the page you linked to, the search settings seem to be set to “Everything” rather than “Messageboards” – which may or may not explain why the first five items found are product reviews (or maybe they come up under messageboards too? I’m not sure).

Then the next 95 things are messageboard threads, most of which seem to be to do with the Alpha Release and Combat Feats.

So the burning the servers and such seems a little extreme – unless there’s something I’m missing (and there may be).

... How about more information on what people are thinking about Combat Feats in the Pathfinder RPG Alpha 2...

I'm not completely sure I understand your concern, but to use the example above, of looking for posts regarding combat feats in the A2 draft--the process is fairly intuitive if you know the first place to look:

1) On the left of the screen you'll see the Browse box; the first headings are proprietary info; then Messageboards.

2) Select Messageboards and you'll be directed there.

3) On the Messageboards page you'll first see Paizo.com info, including customer service, product discussion and website feedback--click the arrow beside paizo.com to collapse this section; it will remain collapsed even after you exit your browser (at least that's the case with Safari)

4) Now, when you go to the Messageboards page the first topic visible is Paizo Publishing and Pathfinder--you can continue to collapse sections as far as you like, let's say, to the point that the Alpha Release 2 section is the first section of consequence.
***if you are most interested in a particular aspect of the A2 discussion, like Combat and Magic or Skills and Feats, then collapse the arrows until those are the only ones of consequence (that you can read)

5) Bookmark this page, then simply open the discussion to scan A2 threads of interest.

Hope this helps.

Something hasty.

Try this: A more precise search for the same term. Note the parameters in the search bar area.

You could also just navigate to here.

Or you could, of course, advocate immolating the servers in a fit of pique, if that is more to your liking.

Or subscribe to one of the RSS feed options for relevant posts or threads as you prefer. That's what I do: RSS topics I want to keep up with; RSS posters I want to keep up with.

Edit: If you're using Safari like Andrew above, you can even Spotlight for live search through all thread feeds by typing a couple of keywords, makes for instant find.

As a long-term RPG.netter, I couldn't give a flip about a search function.

It's the inability of the boards to quote an entire post, it's the inability to ignore users, and it's the inability to post inline images that get me.

=and it's the inability to post inline images that get me.

thats my favorite enhancement of these boards, they are clean and the only pictures are the avatars - if you need a picture load it to photobucket and post a link

cappadocius wrote:

=and it's the inability to post inline images that get me.

thats my favorite enhancement of these boards, they are clean and the only pictures are the avatars - if you need a picture load it to photobucket and post a link

Ditto. Love the lack of sensory overload. I come here to relax.

While I don't advocate anything near as extreme as the OP, I do think that the messageboards here lag behind standard forum systems (vBulletin, even phpBB) in functionality. Although I do really like that everything can be RSS'd, so that's a nice feature. I just wish it had some way of showing me which threads have new entries since my last visit.

While I don't advocate anything near as extreme as the OP, I do think that the messageboards here lag behind standard forum systems (vBulletin, even phpBB) in functionality.

That's deliberate. We don't want smilies or inline pictures or signatures or poster statistics with each post -- that stuff gets in the way of conversation.

Although I do really like that everything can be RSS'd, so that's a nice feature. I just wish it had some way of showing me which threads have new entries since my last visit.

That's the number one feature I want to add to our boards.

OK, number two. Number one is fixing the "eaten post" bug.... Unfortunately, anything that affects thousands of people and their money is a higher priority, and I've got several of those on my plate right now.

...

Wow. And here I thought the other boards with flashing lights, signatures and headache inflicting features were crap.

Have you not yet learned how to search a specific website with google? It seems to work really fine for finding the threads I want here.

Well, can't please everyone.

Ambush wrote:

...

Wow. And here I thought the other boards with flashing lights, signatures and headache inflicting features were crap.

Have you not yet learned how to search a specific website with google? It seems to work really fine for finding the threads I want here.

Well, can't please everyone.

I find the Google trick to be of limited use. If there are a lot of hits on the board your often facing an even larger haystack. Every entry in Google looks identical, contrast this with Paizo's own search function which identifies the avatar and name of the person who wrote the searched keywords. Thats a really strong feature in the search since I usually know who posted the comments and I can just scan for their name and avatar quickly dismissing the majority of irrelevant hits.

Physically set fire to the servers.... /me sits back and waits on the flamage that is sure to come...

So... you want to be flamed. Dude, you've got 4 posts in your history. Has anyone flamed him yet?

And Jeremy, between Paizo's crappy search function and google, I've never failed to find anything. That doesn't mean it don't need fixin' so I agree with you....

I've got my share of big gripes, too.

Not being able to find what I want in the blog (really irritating). Can we get some kind of referencing system? A workable search engine would probably alleviate this problem.

I'm working on putting most of this in the wikiso that if you look at the article for the thing you are looking for, wou will either see the information from the blog, or a notation of the day it was in the blog

It's the inability of the boards to quote an entire post....that get me.

If I see a huge post, that I wish to reply to, and the relevant points are near the end, I simply highlight the text, press 'Ctrl & C', to copy the whole thing to my clipboard, then hit 'reply' or 'new post', paste the text, and dissect it at my leisure.

Very useful for answering some of the more locquacious posters on these boards!

That's deliberate. We don't want smilies or inline pictures or signatures or poster statistics with each post -- that stuff gets in the way of conversation.

Oh, Thank you.

Open letter to all posters who ask for this stuff:

If you really feel the need to tell everyone about your 255th level paladin, or pass on a 'humorous' chain-letter that five million other people got before you did, or reprint five minutes of dialogue from a 30-year-old TV show, or a 'witty' one-liner from an action film, then post it on your profile page, where those who care can see it when they go there, to find out what a uniquely wise and perfectly-crafted snowflake you are.

Or, you can post your half-page of guff, between every post, on EnWorld Migraine Machine or the Gleemax Epileptic-o-tron.

Or subscribe to one of the RSS feed options for relevant posts or threads as you prefer. That's what I do: RSS topics I want to keep up with; RSS posters I want to keep up with.

How does this work?

I've clicked on a thread I liked; I was told the link was downloaded, and the icon is on my desktop, but I have yet to be given any notifications, despite the thread growing by hundreds of posts.

What am I doing wrong?

That's deliberate. We don't want smilies or inline pictures or signatures or poster statistics with each post -- that stuff gets in the way of conversation.

Hm. And yet RPG.net doesn't have any sort of problem with this stuff...

Just sayin'.

Something else I miss when I come to these boards is the ability to private message people. Sometimes I don't want to clutter up a thread with a tangent, and email runs into its own problems when discussing trivial messageboard topics, but those are my only two options.

Something else I miss when I come to these boards is the ability to private message people. Sometimes I don't want to clutter up a thread with a tangent, and email runs into its own problems when discussing trivial messageboard topics, but those are my only two options.

This one I'll agree with

Daeglin wrote:

Or subscribe to one of the RSS feed options...

How does this work?

I've clicked on a thread I liked; I was told the link was downloaded, and the icon is on my desktop, but I have yet to be given any notifications, despite the thread growing by hundreds of posts.

What am I doing wrong?

I am by no means an expert on this. I just click on things and hope the computer knows how to do the rest :) But this is what I've got setup (caveat: Mac OS 10.5 with Safari 3.1.1).

I put all the Paizo RSS feeds I'm following in a folder named "Paizo" up on my Bookmark Bar. Looking at it right now, there is a "14" in brackets telling me there are fourteen new threads on the messageboard since I last opened my browser. I did this by bookmarking the RSS symbol at the top of the Messageboard sidebar in the Paizo Blog. In my preferences, RSS feeds are set to update every 30 minutes. Each of the various sections of the boards has two RSS options to subscribe to: recent threads or recent posts. Another option is to click on the name of someone, such as Snorter, and on your Recent Posts page are options to subscribe to all posts by you (which I would do to keep track of you) or to subscribe to each individual thread you've posted in (which you might do to track responses to your posts).

I'm not sure how much help I can be for you, though I suspect most browsers handle RSS similarly. I know Firefox is pretty much the same (actually a bit better than the setup I have now). Are you using something other than a browser for RSS reader? Are you saving the link to the feed in the right location? My browser won't update the feeds automatically unless they are placed in a specific spot, and the option turned on in preferences.

Daeglin wrote:

Or subscribe to one of the RSS feed options for relevant posts or threads as you prefer. That's what I do: RSS topics I want to keep up with; RSS posters I want to keep up with.

How does this work?

I've clicked on a thread I liked; I was told the link was downloaded, and the icon is on my desktop, but I have yet to be given any notifications, despite the thread growing by hundreds of posts.

What am I doing wrong?

You probably want to read this.

cappadocius wrote:

It's the inability of the boards to quote an entire post....that get me.

If I see a huge post, that I wish to reply to, and the relevant points are near the end, I simply highlight the text, press 'Ctrl & C', to copy the whole thing to my clipboard, then hit 'reply' or 'new post', paste the text, and dissect it at my leisure.

Very useful for answering some of the more locquacious posters on these boards!

Which is what I suspect most of us do - that said its not really ideal.

Ditto.

It's not like I want to copy the whole thing. I always try to be concise with my citations.

It's an mild annoyance because copy and paste just adds one more step.

What am I doing wrong?

Using the wrong browser mate

As a newb myself, have to kinda agree that this site isn't like most others.

Everyone I have recommended this place to in the last few days said the exact same thing - its not very 'User Friendly'.

I like the 'clean' look, without any of the annoying animated stuff or mile-long Sigs, but the boards themselves are a bit rought to navigate through.

Maybe a bit more a graphical interface would help.

As a newb myself, have to kinda agree that this site isn't like most others.

Everyone I have recommended this place to in the last few days said the exact same thing - its not very 'User Friendly'.

I like the 'clean' look, without any of the annoying animated stuff or mile-long Sigs, but the boards themselves are a bit rought to navigate through.

Maybe a bit more a graphical interface would help.

Its worth pointing out that while its not 100% user friendly its constantly being improved upon. Essentially Paizo has decided to build the program that will run their business from the ground up allowing them to create a system that does exactly what they want and addresses their specific needs. On the plus side your not trying to use generic cookie cutter software to deal with you specific issues. Which is great in the sense that every time they make some new code its custom tailored to their needs but comes with the significant downside that there are not nearly enough hours in the day or days in the year to implement everything thats on their to do list.

On the other hand we may well see features eventually implemented that will really raise the bar. Personally I'm big into something that allows users to collaborate more effectively and I have a hunch that there are some big plans in store for using the website as part and parcel of PRPG. Skys the limit really if you build your own program - if only there where more hours in the day in which to build the mad creation.

On the other hand we may well see features eventually implemented that will really raise the bar. Personally I'm big into something that allows users to collaborate more effectively and I have a hunch that there are some big plans in store for using the website as part and parcel of PRPG. Skys the limit really if you build your own program - if only there where more hours in the day in which to build the mad creation.

Well... they will need to get Pathfinder Society stuff up just after Gencon so that Nick has something to do. um... i mean....

That's deliberate. We don't want smilies or inline pictures or signatures or poster statistics with each post -- that stuff gets in the way of conversation.

And thanks for keeping the Paizo boards uncluttered by avoiding the vanity signatures and parade of distracting smilies and images. The clean, straight content of these threads is much appreciated. And, I've always been able to find all of the forum content I've looked for over the years. If I've needed help, a friendly plea for help has netted results when I've been stumped.

No need to burn Paizo's servers. Go burn the forum database at Wizards of the Coast - those things are a disgraceful mess, right now.

Don (Greyson)
Nyrond Triad

The clean, straight content of these threads is much appreciated. And, I've always been able to find all of the forum content I've looked for over the years.

Three cheers for the minimalist approach.

It is a HUGE benefit of this site, that I can come here, and it (mostly) looks like work-related activity; something that is plainly not the case with other boards.

Paizo! Aiding slacking for bored gamers!

If I've needed help, a friendly plea for help has netted results when I've been stumped.

And three cheers to the staff and regulars, who provide such timely and helpful advice.

While I don't advocate anything near as extreme as the OP, I do think that the messageboards here lag behind standard forum systems (vBulletin, even phpBB) in functionality.

That's deliberate. We don't want smilies or inline pictures or signatures or poster statistics with each post -- that stuff gets in the way of conversation.

Although I do really like that everything can be RSS'd, so that's a nice feature. I just wish it had some way of showing me which threads have new entries since my last visit.

That's the number one feature I want to add to our boards.

OK, number two. Number one is fixing the "eaten post" bug.... Unfortunately, anything that affects thousands of people and their money is a higher priority, and I've got several of those on my plate right now.

I wasn't even talking about all that kind of garbage. I'm glad it's not here. I meant the simple step of being able to pull up a forum and easily, quickly, and without question know which threads have new posts since my last visit, which posts I have participated in, and which posts staff/moderators/whatever have posted in. In my opinion those are things that are needed for a forum system to be user friendly.

The dot was nice, but it was just a small step in the right direction. Surely it would be easier to start with the whole package and pare it down to what you actually want/need rather than reinventing the wheel over and over?

As for your lack of assistance.... talk to whoever it is that insists someone who is going to work on programming needs to sit his butt in an office next to you instead of wherever he currently sits. You'd have had help long ago if the relocation requirement was dropped, I bet.

Don't get me wrong - I think you're doing a great job. I just don't think you're doing the most efficient job you could be by creating the forums from scratch when there are a *lot* of really good options that don't bloat to the unreadable mess that is the wotc forum or whatever that other place is that everyone seems to also go (obviously I don't :).

As for your lack of assistance.... talk to whoever it is that insists someone who is going to work on programming needs to sit his butt in an office next to you instead of wherever he currently sits. You'd have had help long ago if the relocation requirement was dropped, I bet.

I'd like to comment on this. There seems to be a general idea out there that programmers can work remotely as easily as they can work when they're onsite. That's simply not true. If Paizo were to bring someone on board who didn't work onsite, they'd probably spend at least as much time on the specs, documentation, and management of that person as they'd get from them in productivity. The reality doesn't line up to what you'd expect if you hadn't tried it.

It works when you've got a team of people working remotely since you get the specs to that team and now you have several people working on them. It works when the person originally worked as part of the onsite team and relocated. By "works" here, I mean "has better than a 20% chance of netting you a benefit."

That goes for all kinds of corporate workers.

Hiring a new worker long distance is a mess. Old worker, sometimes doable.

An employee needs to be involved in more than sitting in his workspace to really learn what's going on, and this goes double for a company like Paizo I reckon.

But look at their situation... How long has that job been posted? It's obviously (painfully so, at times) needed. They've said they can't pay market value for the job, and need someone to do it "out of love of the game". Love of the game doesn't pay for a moving truck to cart your crap across the continent, I'm afraid. :) If they really aren't interested in finding anyone that quickly, then fine they can leave it posted and let it just sit there online until the perfect candidate appears (or is born, fully-formed from the forehead of some powerful deity, perhaps :). Meanwhile the work that needs to get done piles up. As I said, a tremendous job is being done at the moment, but I think that the "requirements" of the job are unreasonable (and just for the record, I have no interest in applying for it - this isn't just me whining because I feel like I am missing an opportunity or something).

Anyway, I'm just sayin. I don't think they're being realistic with their expectations and should start making other arrangements to ensure stability and the ability to recover from unforeseen circumstances (ie. perhaps the current guy actually wants some time off - or the doctor tells him to take some time off because he needs stress leave ;).

Anyway, that's how it looks from here. There is obviously a great deal I don't actually know about the situation. I do know that with all of the options for electronic communication that I find it hard to believe that someone couldn't be effective in the position if they were located somewhere else in the U.S.

Anyone who complains about this site has never been to Radiohead's website. Try to find anything, just try. You'll go mad, and if you'll already mad, you'll go sane.

"I need an old priest and a young priest..."

I wasn't even talking about all that kind of garbage. I'm glad it's not here. I meant the simple step of being able to pull up a forum and easily, quickly, and without question know which threads have new posts since my last visit, which posts I have participated in, and which posts staff/moderators/whatever have posted in. In my opinion those are things that are needed for a forum system to be user friendly. The dot was nice, but it was just a small step in the right direction. Surely it would be easier to start with the whole package and pare it down to what you actually want/need rather than reinventing the wheel over and over?

The minimum needed to be user friendly, AFAIC. I was "excited" about the dots (now gone, I see) that made it ever more slightly useful - of course, even when they were here, they laughably only lasted a week or two. Pffft.

Of course, just like that past thread, this thread too is loaded with that silly little false dichotomy that it's an either/or situation: the abomination that is Gleemax vs. the uselessness that is Paizo's boards. Whatever.

Of course, ignoring that vBulletin can have individual users decide for themselves whether signatures/pics/smilies get in the way or not is disingenuous. (Yes, I browse vBulletin boards with annoying sigs turned OFF, for example. Nice that I have that option, you see.)

vB is probably the best and most configurable forum around. And not that expensive - probably cheaper than paying someone to write one from scratch. :)

And I definitely wouldn't say these boards are useless. They lack some functionality that would make them easier to navigate, for sure. I took a half hour or so and set up a group of RSS feeds for all the threads I'm participating in, and one for each of the major categories in the ALpha 3 forum subsections. Now I just refresh them all when I want to see if there are any new posts, and that works. It's not ideal, but it's a handy workaround. Now I just need to keep on top of the RSS feeds, making sure to add any new threads in which I post and to remove old ones that I don't care about anymore.

(If anyone's interested, I use the Brief plugin for Firefox for managing the RSS feeds.)

EDIT: Gleemax is possibly the worst thing I have ever seen on the internet as an attempt at a "community" site. Whoever is writing that should make sure nobody knows his/her real name because it will haunt the person should he/she ever try to get a job anywhere else.

vB is probably the best and most configurable forum around. And not that expensive - probably cheaper than paying someone to write one from scratch. :)

All the vB site I've been on have tons of trouble with search also. In fact most forums I've been on have searching woes.

What you seem to be missing is the fact that Paizo's site is much more than a simple forum. The entire site is integrated fairly seemlessly, store, blog, forums, pdf downloads, one integrated site. Compare this to the hacks done to integrate vB into Gleemax... I know, bad example and an extreme but most sites I've seen that take a product like vB and try to integrate it into their full offering wind up with a cludgey hack. Further, while vB might be cheaper than a home grown setup integrating vB into an existing site the way Paizo's board is might not be.

And I definitely wouldn't say these boards are useless. They lack some functionality that would make them easier to navigate, for sure.

These forums are decent for discussion. I wouldn't mind a few more features but I much prefer the board be on this end of the forum spectrum than the Gleemax side.

Ask yourself this question, given the choice between hiring another web admin or two or hiring another game designer which would you prefer Paizo did? Hire more web designers or high more game designers? Personally I would much rather Paizo kept their current web offerings which are quite decent and focus their efforts and money on making PfRPG and Pathfinder into the best possible products.

Personally I would much rather Paizo kept their current web offerings which are quite decent and focus their efforts and money on making PfRPG and Pathfinder into the best possible products.

I agree.

Ask yourself this question, given the choice between hiring another web admin or two or hiring another game designer which would you prefer Paizo did? Hire more web designers or high more game designers?

But what about our Digital Imperative?!

Seriously though, I won't have time to work on the messageboards for at least a few weeks because there are other things that involve people and their money ahead in the bug/feature queue. That said, I'm pretty sure everyone will like our long-term goals for the messageboards and non-ecommerce features for the site. Those goals include enhancing navigation and usability, and increasing ways for Paizo fans to create and share content.

(And yes, we did get a stack of resumes from the recent email push, and yes, I'll look at them soon, but probably not before next week. Gotta finish rewriting our POS system for Origins.)

But what about our Digital Imperative?!

Bwahahahaha...

Seriously though, I won't have time to work on the messageboards for at least a few weeks because there are other things that involve people and their money ahead in the bug/feature queue. That said, I'm pretty sure everyone will like our long-term goals for the messageboards and non-ecommerce features for the site. Those goals include enhancing navigation and usability, and increasing ways for Paizo fans to create and share content.

The forums are fine. I wouldn't have a problem if they stayed the same, you do a great job on the site and I'm sure whatever changes you make will be great. I don't begrudge you another helper to keep the site running and make some improvements but as far as I'm concerned it's all about the games.

I almost applied for that open job you have but I can't relocate until next year.

-- Dennis