Last Thursday my group got together once again, and was missing a few key players, but we forged ahead on the rules a bit more. There were fewer RP and skill related issues this session, with a bit more combat and traps being encountered.
The PCs involved were:
Goliath Rogue 3
Human Cleric 2/Rogue 1 (Healing and Strength Domains)
Half-Elf Bard 3
The party's human paladin 3 and gnome beguiler 3 were both missing in this session.
General Notes and Start Up
We started the session with a quick explanation/recap of the changes from versionn 1.1 to version 2. Several of my players liked the old skill system (level based), but I also found that once I explained the new skill system, it was pretty well received.
The players liked the idea that they could be decent, but not an expert, at a skill by investing a skill rank in a class skill. It didn't seem like too much to them, but it wasn't quite as "flavor only" as investing a single rank under 3.5.
Several fans of the "uncoupling" of Sense Motive and Bluff out of deception as well. Our adventures have been very investigation/role play heavy lately, and Deception become both the lying and figure out lying ability just didn't feel quite right. Especially with a paladin in the group that was good at sense motive before, but wanted no training with deception. The bard and the beguiler tended to be good liars, but were never roleplayed as being good at "reading" people before, so this change really did kind of "set things right" in the group.
Exploring the "Dungeon"
The party started the adventure in the basement of the warehouse where they ran into the dungeonbred hydra the session before. They knew there was a trap on the stairs, and carefully avoided it when they walked down into the area.
The cleric player is still getting used to the channel energy, unlimited cantrips, and domain abilities (he was actually fairly new to 3.5 in general when we started this campaign). This session he really started to get the hang of the new abilities. He realized with his rebuke death he really didn't need stabilize, and he got some mileage out of rebuke death this session.
The unlimited cantrips ability came up quite a bit, as both the bard and the cleric were using detect magic over and over again, and the cleric also used light on every level of the warehouse. Having a spellcaster seems to obviate needing a light source. It was nice to know that the PCs could worry about darkened levels without having to keep track of light sources (as far as expendable resources), but I'm still keeping an eye on this to see if it causes too much of a shift from "normal" D&D. It doesn't feel wrong, so far, but unlimited anything seems like it could find some kind of abuse, but so far, so good.
The cleric cast light on coins the first few times, but the PCs took to rolling a big log down stairs to set off tripwires, and he stared casting light on the logs before they rolled them down. It didn't help much with stealth, but given that goliath's propensity for breaking things, that wasn't ever really an option.
First Contact: Combat with an Animated Object
The first encounter was with an animated object that was a training dummy with weapons attached to it. The constant use of detect magic did bring up an interesting point here. There was a magical "animate object" trap on the training dummy, but the bard looked at it with detect magic. While I know he didn't detect the trap, it does seem odd that he could look at a magical spell trap and nothing happens. He wasn't upset by any means, be he noted this as well ("nothing magic here except that big training dummy that's trying to attack us now.")
I guess its something I rarely considered, because detect magic was rarely thrown around lightly before, and while it makes sense to not have magical traps detected so easily, it was just something I had never really stopped to think about before the constant scanning with detect magic came up.
(In anticipation, I gave the bard unlimited cantrips as well. I'm not sure if this is in, but it seem like every other class that has had cantrips has gotten the ability, so I jumped the gun and gave them to the bard as well, especially since I haven't had anything else to give him other than the d8 hit points).
One thing that I noticed in the fight with the animated object . . . the d8 hit points for "second line" fighters is a good thing, but it still doesn't quite let them replace a good "tank." The last few sessions, the paladin waded in, smacked things and smited what could be smited, and the rogues came in, flanked, and got their "support" damage. The "second line" fighters were a bit less effective on their own, which make sense.
I ruled that the animated object was one of those "creatures" that is still immune to sneak attack/criticals, since its literally just an animated object with no "vital" spots. Not only did the rogues not get a sneak attack, but this cost the bard a critcal hit when he pulled out his longsword as well.
None of the PCs had a problem with this not having a "weak spot," though we joked about the cleric using carpentry to figure out where to hit it. Just about everyone got that this thing wouldn't have any kind of vitals and it just needed to be beaten to pieces, and it did kind of reinforce that they were a bit out of whack without having a dedicated tank in the group.
Given that this was a large animated object with a CR of 3, with three 3rd level PCs (effective average party level of 2), that meant that this was a "challenging" encounter. It felt like a challenging encounter.
The bard sang to give everyone a bonus, as per usual, and the goliath and the cleric flanked the animated object. The goliath tends to fight unarmed, or with improvised weapons, so he went into this encounter without much in the way of armament. The cleric had his mace.
The cleric went down fairly quickly, and was at 0 hit points. He was afraid to cast a spell or do anything in range of the animated object, so the goliath asked if he could attempt to sunder the animated object.
I ruled that if he broke the weapon arm completely, that the animated object would just use another part to attack with, but if it only gained the "broken" condition, the object wasn't "smart" enough to switch to using a different "body part." Plus, this allowed the goliath to drawn an AoO so the cleric could heal himself without the animated object mauling him.
The animated object hit the goliath, but the goliath managed to hit it, barely overcoming his hardness, and gave the animated object the "broken" condition. The goliath also got an idea where the object's hardness was.
The bard cast grease on the object. The bard's player was a bit torn on the spell, since it had been a staple of his arsenal for many of the last few sessions, but he did like the trade off that it lasted longer, and was perhaps a bit more logical. He is anxious to try the "greasing a weapon" trick.
The object failed its save, and capsized in the grease, and all of the PCs got to take a whack at it as it righted itself. The bard normally used a masterwork rapier, but he used his longsword in this fight, because he nearly had to roll maximum damage to even damage the object. Most rounds he did one or two points of damage.
The goliath took the brunt of the attacks, since he was the primary attacker, and he went down below 0 hit points. The cleric got to use rebuke death on him, and the goliath used a potion to bring him back into positives. He also decided that he needed a "bigger gun," and went back to the greataxe trap.
I ruled that since he knew it was coming, he could make an opposed attack roll against the trap to grab the greataxe out of it, and he managed to do so, and move back into the fight, armed with a weapon that had a lot better chance of overcoming the animated objects hardness.
A note on the d8 increase for the bard. He still doesn't like combat, be he was usually the first one under 0 hit points before, and now that he has about five or six more hit points, when he does enter combat, he doesn't seem to go down right away.
The greataxe made a huge difference over an improvised club, but the animated object got a "blinded" critical on the goliath. The cleric treated him with his healing skill, and they party proceeded to take the animated object apart. If I recall correctly, this took two cure light wounds and two CLW potions before the fight was over.
Further Exploration
The perception checks to search the area didn't seem to be quite as "all or nothing" for people with perception as a skill as it seemed last time, probably due to the fact that they couldn't max out the skill as easily. Sill, the main difference was +6 versus +4, so maybe it was just the rolls.
While I like the perception mechanic, it did seem odd to call for a perception check for everything. Seaching a room? Perception. Trying to smell the sewer through a bricked over wall? Perception. Trying to find traps? Perception. It makes sense, but it also seems a little odd to call for the same skill over and over again. No one in the party seemed to mind though, and it certainly wasn't a "given" that they would perceive anything.
Also, while it was the same skill over and over, I like that the fact that perception covers more it also encourages things like trying to smell something to pick up some information, so in a way, it may be the same roll for the same skill, but its also creating a wider variety of reasons to use that skill.
At any rate, the PCs missed a fake door trap that blew up in their faces, although the goliath managed to duck out of the way of the blast due to his evasion class ability.
Final Conflict: The Big Bad Evil Guy . . . sort of
In the basement level of the warehouse, where the warehouse connected to Ordulin's sewers, was the lair of the local leader of the Cult of the Dragon, which in this case was a very young black dragon.
According to the CR chart in the Pathfinder Alpha 2, this would be a "hard" encounter, with a CR 4 creature against a CR 2 (modified) party.
The half-elf detected the secret door to the lair without even trying (due to his more elf like senses now), and in the PCs went. Of course, they constantly made sure everyone in the place could hear every step they made, since the goliath liked to break down doors and hack animated objects up, and the cleric liked to roll logs down stairs.
The black dragon had "average" stats out of the Draconomicon for a very young black dragon. I averaged his hide and move silent into a +7 for stealth. When the goliath went into the room first, he failed to notice the little guy, and the black dragon got a surprise round attack on the goliath.
The bard was right in line of the door, so the next round, the black dragon hit the goliath and the bard with acid in a stream, although the goliath managed to avoid the damage, and the bard only took half damage from it.
The bard asked if he could try to bluff the dragon, and he came up with a tale of the goliath being an oaf and the party being sent to make contact with the dragon from another cell of the Cult. The bard roll a 19, with his maxed out bluff skill, and convinced the dragon to pause, since the PCs hadn't attacked first.
The bard took the chance to spend a minute and diplomacy the dragon into believing that the party was here in the best interest of the dragon, and to make a good impression on him by praising his mighty prowess and his natural ability to hide in the shadows, and to command the Cult cell. Again, a good roll, and the dragon was willing to discuss matters with the PCs, potentially, but was wary (indifferent, I determined that the check was at +10 to the difficulty due to asking to not be killed and asking for the dragon to accept them as Cult members).
The cleric decided to use his channel energy to heal the bard and the goliath since the dragon had taken no damage, but the dragon's perception (again, averaged at +7 on the fly), picked up that the cleric's holy symbol was of Lathander, not usually a Cult deity to say the least, and the dragon tore into the PCs again.
The dragon hit the bard and the goliath again with its breath (since it had been listening to the bard for a minute), and the cleric spent the round using another channel energy to heal the other two at the same time.
The bard had a hard time hitting the dragon with his crossbow, and the goliath wasn't having much luck with his attacks against it either, and the cleric continued to channel energy until he was out healing the other two, while the goliath kept getting ripped up by the dragon's claws and bite.
The goliath decided to grapple, and since he had Improved Unarmed Attack, he didn't expose himself to any more risk. The check was fairly simple, and easier for the goliath to hit than the dragon's armor class.
The goliath had a decision to make, though, since he was badly hurt. He decided to pin the dragon to keep it from killing him, and bard bard was trying to fire into the melee while the cleric moved in to attack.
After another round of ineffectual combat, the goliath started to do damage to the dragon, but he missed his CMB roll to hold on the next round, and the dragon mauled him again, taking him below 0 hit points. The cleric maneuvered around to use rebuke death and the last of his healing on the goliath, and bard bard started using his wand of heat lightning (from Green Ronin's Advanced Player's Guide).
Luckily, the dragon rolled terribly for its save, and it took the heat non lethal damage and the fire damage from the spell. The next round, the goliath and the cleric were back to attacking it, and the bard hit it with another heat lightning, and another after that.
The cleric took the brunt of the dragon's attack after he rebuked death on the goliath, while the goliath used another potion to get himself back in fighting shape. The cleric went down into negatives.
The goliath had very few hit points, even after the potion, but decided to risk the grapple again, figuring that this was all or nothing with the cleric down for the fight. He managed to grapple the dragon, and take it down past 0, but it had a lot of non lethal damage to it.
So the goliath used a coup de grace to deliver, what he described as, the people's elbow on the dragon. In addition to the damage, the dragon failed its save, and it died. The party managed to get to the cleric in time to stabilize him and use up a few more potions on him to get him conscious.
Post Fight Thoughts
The goliath player liked that grappled had moved back to feeling more like 3.5 grapple, but with a simpler resolution, but wished there was more you could "chain" from in grapple, like throws or slams or some other unarmed combat grappling moves. He liked that he could pin, move, or damage, but just wished there was more he could do as well.
Wrapping Up and Other Thoughts on Alpha 2 From the Players
Again, XP assignment was very easy. On thing this session did make me think of was trap XP. Should everyone really get this? Should only the PCs threatened by this get it? Should it work the same for all encounters? It might be a hassle for backwards compatibility to change how this works, but I did think of this as I was assigning XP.
The PCs leveled up, and the goliath is taking a level of barbarian, and bard is remaining a bard, and the cleric took another level of cleric, so from this group we now have a goliath rogue 3/barbarian 1, a bard 4, and a cleric 3/rogue 1. Player's noted that while they want to keep with their initial character concepts, they may have "built" them differently if they had started the characters under Pathfinder (i.e. the number of rogue multi classers in the group).
Also, the cleric is actually excited to take item creation feats now that he has heard about the no XP penalty rule for making them.
One more thing that occurs to me, on the issue of the 15 min work day. Personally, I don't want resource management to go away, and it hasn't under this iteration. At the same time, the PCs discussed resting at one point, but due to the rebuke death ability, and their ever present detect magics and light spells, decided to press on for a bit.
Also, the PCs found several potions, scrolls, a +1 shield, and a +1 shield missile attractor, and the only one the bard failed to identify with his wand of identify was the +1 missile attractor shield, and due to the "only one chance per day" clause from Alpha 2, he still doesn't know what the shield is.
Very interesting read - thanks for posting! I'm looking forward to my group's game this coming weekend.... The Paladin and Sorcerer are going to get a thorough testing! ;)
Peace,
tfad
Thanks for posting this; it was interesting to see how the "rogue collective" concept worked with a small party. Damage reduction does make your life more difficult if you don't have a high-strength basher.
The unlimited cantrips ability came up quite a bit, as both the bard and the cleric were using detect magic over and over again, and the cleric also used light on every level of the warehouse. Having a spellcaster seems to obviate needing a light source. It was nice to know that the PCs could worry about darkened levels without having to keep track of light sources (as far as expendable resources), but I'm still keeping an eye on this to see if it causes too much of a shift from "normal" D&D. It doesn't feel wrong, so far, but unlimited anything seems like it could find some kind of abuse, but so far, so good.
A couple of people have suggested that spellcasters be limited to active one light spell at a time, but that doesn't really limit casters too much. If light spells weren't dismissable -and- there was only one at a time, then that would limit 1st spellcasters to at most one light spell every ten minutes. I don't know if light abuse is worth the complication, though.
I guess its something I rarely considered, because detect magic was rarely thrown around lightly before, and while it makes sense to not have magical traps detected so easily, it was just something I had never really stopped to think about before the constant scanning with detect magic came up.
I've had this happen before thanks to a ring of detect magic at will - it is an interesting question. I generally try to remember that detect magic requires concentration, but a slow-going party can discover magical traps. Generally I let it happen, but expensive traps could be covered with a lead sheet or maybe even a few solid coats of lead paint.
I've also run into the problem of 'what happens when you detect magic on an illusion'? My answer is that the first round works "presence of magic", but that's typically all you can focus in on. I suppose a three-round process to find an immobile invisible thing is no big deal, though.
Great report we need more reports like this one
Excellent report, KnightErrantJR. Thank you.
I created a couple of feats your goliath may be interested in Here.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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By rebuking death, you mean channel positive energy right? Cause otherwise it would damage the PC's.
As for Detect Magic, I'm guessing magical traps will be guessed at more often...
Do agree that more reports are needed.
'Rebuke death' sounds so much more cooler than 'Channel positive energy'
So far I've only ran one protoplaytest with the pathfinder rules. Rebuke death has been a lifesaver, and the battle sorcerer loves unlimited acid splash. We need to go back and rewrite her battle sorc with the draconic feats.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Even with Detect Magic at Will, the Caster needs to concentrate. Now against a static magic trap means that it takes 3 rounds to determine what it is and how to deal. This means that when placing magic traps the encounter needs to be a little more dynamic. Placing another trap (a mundane one) or a weak monster or npc that synergizes with the trap evens up the odds a little. A hidden sniper can certainly give the concentrating character a big headache.
So the party used two CLW, two CLW potions, cast grease, & used one rebuke death in the fight against the animated object? Were they still down any hit points after that and/or did they use any more healing after said fight?
If I remember correctly, the cleric hit the goliath one more time after the fight with a cure light wounds, but I'm not 100% sure.
Rough "Fifteen Minute Day" Summary:
The party explored three relatively small levels of a warehouse, had two "challenging" fights and a "hard" fight, and ran into 3 CR 3 traps (one way or another).
The bard expended all of his bardic music for the day, but not until the end of the black dragon fight (i.e. counting the hydra, the animated object, and the black dragon). He also used two charges from his mirror image wand and three charges from his heat lightning wand.
The cleric was out of spells by the end of the black dragon fight, and had used all of his channel energy abilities by the end of the fight. He still hasn't used his strength domain abilities yet though.
The goliath was low on hit points again by the end of the black dragon fight, but all three characters had more potions to use after the fight with the black dragon.
The gnome beguiler (when he was still with the party), used one spell and was at about 5 hit points after dropping below 0 due to the great axe trap and the assist by the goliath (heh), and being healed by the paladin's lay on hands.
The paladin lost no hit points, but did use up her entire lay on hands (9 hp) by the end of the hydra encounter and the great axe trap.
The gnome beguiler and the paladin are both missing after the first level of the warehouse was cleared.
Spoiler (just in case any of my players wander in here):
There is a "challenging" ambush waiting for the PCs, which will actually probably be easier if they leave the warehouse without resting (as it will be a straight up, but outnumbered, fight), since its a group of rogues that will sneak into the warehouse to deal with them while they rest.
Overall, in game time, the PCs spent at least three hours searching the warehouse, which doesn't sound like a bad day's work when you consider part of the work day involves people trying to kill you.
Rough "Fifteen Minute Day" Summary:
...at about 5 hit points after dropping below 0 due to the great axe trap and the assist by the goliath (heh)...
I did not 'assist' anything! He fell! It wasn't my fault!
Actually, I snuck up behind him with the dead hydra so when he turned around to tell us about the stairs, he was looking into one of the hydra's mouths. A failed Reflex save later and the gnome's a little smearier than he used to be and the paladin's giving me 'the look' again...
Totally worth it.
The paladin gives you "the look" often . . . ;)
Playtest Interlude: Blood Waters One Shot Night
We took a night off of the regular campaign to try out some of the classes and races that aren't being played by anyone in the regular campaign, and as a "one shot" adventure I chose to run Blood Waters from Sinister Adventures.
The PCs for this adventure were:
Half-Orc Druid (Weather Domain), 9th Level
Half-Orc Sorcerer (Abyssal Bloodline), 9th Level
Human Rogue, 9th Level*
Dwarf Fighter, 9th Level
*Foghorn's concept with this character was to have a CG rogue that never liked the restrictions on paladins, and thus traveled the countryside telling people he was a paladin but acting the way he wanted to.
To this end, the rogue picked up minor magic and major magic, learning how to use disrupt undead and true strike, in order to simulate "smiting" an opponent, as well as buying custom gloves that let him cast cure spells.
No one else in the party knew this particular quirk of the character, however.
Initially I was only going to have three players, so I told them to make up 9th level characters to compensate for the fact that its a 7th level adventure. Then we had an extra player, so I ended up trying to compensate "on the fly."
Set up (spoilers for Blood Waters):
So that the main crux of the combat was with the Benthic Serpent, the cultists were all low level mooks, and the customs ship had a spell on it to autofire the canons.
As has been said many times, no DM's plan survives contact with the PCs, as played out below. Since the opening encounter is only outlined, I'll go back to the "main" post for the combat and how it went . . .
The boarders surrounded the PCs, and their leader dove off the side while giving the signal to fire on the ship. My initial thought was that the PCs would get rid of the mooks first, but I should know better than that by now . . .
The rogue took down one of the mooks and got surrounded, and the dwarf decided to dive onto the customs ship to see if he could take out the canons, by himself (!). The mooks tried to aid another, but they did minimal damage to the rogue (who got mithril armor as well to keep him from having much of a penalty to his skills).
A note on skills . . . jump is a class skill for fighters, and the dwarf had a fairly good chance of making his jump, given that he had mithril armor, and due to the reduction of armor check penalty from armor training. The dwarf made his check to jump from one ship to the other, and ran below decks.
The rogue and the druid wondered if the mooks were really evil, or if they were mislead. The sorcerer didn't really ponder this much, and let loose with the wall of fire, taking out all of the mooks but two of them.
The druid decided to go after the man that gave the order to fire, and turned into a shark and dove into the water after him.
The two surviving mooks dove off the ship, and the rogue decided to jump off the ship onto the other ship and meet up with the dwarf, but wanted to jump directly to the canons. Thankfully, he invested even more ranks than the dwarf, and made the jump onto the canons.
The sorcerer cast fly so that he didn't have to worry about falling over when the ship was hit with canon fire. The druid couldn't find the man giving the fire order, but did find my "surprise" sooner than I was ready to reveal him, the Benthic Serpent, by swimming out to him.
The dwarf and the rogue decided to see if they could "disarm" the canons by aiming them at each other. I ruled that he could try to calculate the trajectory of the canon using his engineering skill, and he lined the canons up. The canons went off blowing up the middle canon, and doing area damage to the rogue and the dwarf.
The sorcerer flew backwards away from the ship, and upon sighting the Benthic Serpent, let loose with a fireball targeted above its head. The druid used his "natural spell" to cast flame strike on the Benthic Serpent as well.
Side Note: Everyone stopped for a bit to discuss this. The natural spell ability didn't really appear to be abusive in this situation, but the sorcerer's player just hates the thought of a shark casting flamestrike, but agreed, it could be much worse.
After getting hit with two spells, the Benthic Serpent focused its gaze on the druid, and used its attack to focus on him for another gaze attack, and dominated the druid, sending him after his friends (thankfully, he didn't know for sure where they were, so he drifted away from the fight).
The dwarf asked if he could use his engineering skill to set up a canon to fire on the serpent, and I set a DC for him. He did so and then waited to attack the serpent from the now open side of the ship (from the explosion of the middle canon). The rogue waited for the serpent to get close enough to attack.
The sorcerer continued to fly farther and farther back, throwing fireballs at the Benthic Serpent. The serpent had a terrible time making his reflex saves, taking full damage from the fireballs.
I had ruled that the other druid had been searching for survivors, but I allowed him to cast dispel magic on the druid, a focused dispel to break his domination. The druid began getting his Lightning Lord ability ready to attack the Benthic Serpent.
The Benthic Serpent bit into the dwarf, and the dwarf and the rogue hit the serpent. The dwarf's player was rather pleased with the extra bonus to his damage from his weapon training with his axe. He was glad that his output was significant compared to the rogue and his sword (even though the party thought he was a paladin).
The druid started calling down lightning on the Benthic Serpent, and the sorcerer continued to fly backwards even further and firing fireballs at the serpent's head.
Side Note: I had heard others complain about the long range of the fireball spell, and never though much about it, seeing most of them in relatively close spaces. Given that this encounter happened in the open waters, against such a large foe, the sorcerer kept flying further and further away to fire.
After discussing this, we all agreed that at some point, against a smaller foe, the sorcerer would have to actually make perception checks to see if he could see his target, but given the size, open air, and daylight, this wasn't a problem, but the sorcerer really kept out of harm's way while adding to the fight.
The rogue and the dwarf attacked the serpent, but the rogue was having a hard time hitting the creature. The dwarf hit easily, and did a good, solid amount of damage. Then the pain started.
A Moment That Will Live In Infamy: The Benthic Serpent got a critical hit on the dwarf, doing 52 points of damage. I was also using the Critical Hit Deck, and the dwarf took 3 points of damage from an "organ scramble."
The dwarf was not just at negatives, but fully at -13 hit points and was now an ex-dwarf . . . shuffled off his mortal coil . . . joined the choir invisible . . .
The druid and the sorcerer continued their cross fire on the Benthic Serpent, and the rogue managed to hit the beast as well. The serpent fell to the remaining, living PCs.
In order to make sure to have the dwarf's body to get him raised the druid shifted to an octopus to pick up the dwarf's body and haul him back to shore.
Things That Came Up In Combat:
The half-orc sorcerer wondered if claw "attacks" meant multiple attacks, i.e. a full attack allowed two attacks, and one attack with a move. He was worried that this sounded like a fairly powerful ability, potentially causing more damage than a greatsword.
However, we determined that at 9th level, the claws were definitely a weapon of last resort, and at lower levels, the sorcerer would have to get into combat to use them. The str bonus of the Abyssal bloodline didn't come until the claws were less useful.
The druid player liked getting to use nature spells and pick a domain rather than worrying about an animal companion.
The dwarf player, despite his death, liked that he had engineering as a class skill, and could come up with ideas for it, and liked that he felt more consistent in both damage and the ability to hit (instead of landing blows, but not doing all that much damage compared to the fireballs, for example).
Plot Points; Getting From Here To There
The following gets back into the plot of the adventure, so I'll summarize how I got to the next combat that they PCs got into (spoilers for Blood Waters):
The rogue "paladin" was bluffing left and right during these encounters, and the other PCs still didn't quite pick up on the fact that the paladin had no problem lying, nor being the prime negotiator of the group, with a rather cutthroat attitude.
Before the final fight, the druid took to using his orisons to cast virtue and resistance on everyone. Essentially, if he was suspicious of anything, out came the virtue and resistance spells.
Final Fight
So, going into the final fight, the PCs were a bit wary, and went in with the druid's standard precautionary spells on them.
Spoilers for Blood Waters:
The dwarf ran to the druid, and the druid cast Freedom of Movement on all of the PCs that crowded near him. The rogue tried his dazzling display, and he managed to intimidate the shark.
Side Note: There was a brief discussion about if you could actually intimidate a dire shark with the dazzling display. The description only says that the target needs to see and hear you, and that a larger creature can resist more easily. In the end RAW supports that you can do it, and I can picture a loud, skillful weapon master warding off a creature, so the shark was shaken.
This encounter didn't last too long. The sea hag thaumaturge managed to interrupt the sorcerers summoning spell with a searing light spell. The shark bit into the druid, but didn't ruin his spellcasting. The dwarf tore into the thaumaturge and everyone focused on the sea hag, after picking up on the fact that the king was dominated.
The dire shark bit the dwarf, and managed to hit his CMB defense to initiate a grapple, but the dwarf could automatically break this the next round due to the Freedom of Movement spell.
One round the rogue told everyone that he was "preparing" his smite, which he actually took the round to cast true strike, then hit the sea hag . . . he got a critical without the . . . ahem . . . "smite," but the true strike made sure the critical confirmed, and he killed the sea hag.
The dire shark continued his trend of big creatures rolling horrible saves, and the druid's dominate animal spell took the beast over, while the PCs flagged down help.
Observations After the Whole She-Bang
The rogue player actually really liked minor magic and greater magic, as he said he could easily see a rogue picking up some magical talents in a setting with wizards and sorcerers, and that a rogue that wanted to be an effective charlatan would be much better served by picking up a few spells, and that skill makes it so that multi classing isn't needed to pull this off. His theory was that its no stranger for a rogue to pick up these minor skills than to be able to pick up wizard or sorcerer levels.
Fifteen Minute Workday Assessment
In the first fight, the sorcerer used four fireballs, a fly spell, and a wall of fire.
The druid used two wildshapes, a flamestrike spell, and his "Lightning Lord" ability for the day.
The rogue lost a minimal amount of hit points from the wall of fire and the canons exploding.
The dwarf "spent" all of his hit points in the fight ;)
Also, in order to keep the adventure moving, the PCs had to pay for a raise dead, a restoration, and some healing, but due to the skillful diplomacy of the "paladin," they managed to convince the temple staff that they were heroes who kept the port city free of cultists and sea serpents, so they got their healing "at cost."
The second major encounter was lest costly to the PCs, with the druid using his Freedom of Movement spell and a Dominate Animal spell, the dwarf and the rogue loosing a few hit points, the rogue using his true strike major magic for the day, and the sorcerer loosing a few spells to being interrupted by enemy spells from the sea hag.
Threat Assessment
The first encounter with the Benthic Serpent was a "hard" encounter according to the Pathfinder rules. There was a fairly good amount of resources used, and the dwarf died in the fight, so I'm thinking this assessment was fairly close.
The second combat was "challenging," according to the Pathfinder encounter system. I didn't rework anything in the stat blocks, and the fight was fairly easy for the PCs, but it still took a few rounds, and a couple of spells from both the druid and the sorcerer, as well as the major magic ability of the rogue. Had the adventure continued, the PCs would likely ended up using a few more spells healing, and if the dire shark had not rolled poorly for his saves, it would have been more of a problem.
Regular Session Playtest Session
Back to the regular campaign last Thursday, i.e. the group currently in the warehouse in Ordulin. The players for this particular session were:
Human Paladin 3rd Level (She missed last session, so she is just enough XP behind to not have leveled up with the party)
Half-Elf Bard 4th Level (This may prove not to be true, but I've been letting him use his cantrips in unlimited fashion like other casters, given the fact that he's not gotten any other "conversion" material yet)
Human Cleric 3/Rogue 1
Goliath Rogue 3/Barbarian 1
One of the things that I allowed in this session was to give the players what they got from "leveling up." In other words, since they got their level on the fly last time, if they got an extra spell slot, or use of an ability, they got to use it this session, but nothing that they used up last session.
I normally don't do this, but I knew our number of players had been going up and down lately, so I didn't want to leave them completely out in the cold, and I also wanted them to have some kind of resource to manage this session.
Mainly this gave the cleric and bard another spell slot, and gave the bard another use of bardic music, as well as letting the goliath use his rage points.
Combat Encounter: Ambush
The cleric/rogue decided to be the first one to poke his head out of the warehouse to see what was going on, and unfortunately, managed to be the first target of the ambush.
The cleric, due to having a rogue level, had a pretty decent perception check, and wasn't surprised by the ambushing thugs, but he did loose initiative to them.
Side Note: Perception I'm noticing that everyone is pretty much used to perception after having used it for this many sessions, and that its also become fairly automatic for them to ask, when a perception roll is called for or when they try to use it, which senses are being used.
When I first read the various senses bonuses in the very first Alpha, this seemed like it would be so complicated, but Perception plus the individual bonuses seem so second nature now it almost doesn't seem like part of the playtest anymore, its just the way things work.
Also, as a part of this, I wrote the stats for all of the thugs using 3.5, and as such, its pretty simple to average the hide and move silent rolls into stealth, so backwards usefully seems pretty easy when it comes to these skills.
The first round, the rest of the party was sill inside the warehouse and unable to get to the cleric or the thugs. The thug's leader won initiative, and charged the cleric.
The thug attempted to trip the cleric with one attack, and attacked with the second attack. She missed with her trip attempt, and hit with her attack, doing minimal damage.
The cleric attacked the thug's leader and missed her, but once he had acted, he was no longer flat footed, so when the thugs started to surround him, he got an AoO on one of them as they ran by him, and most of them had to double move to get into place, but he cleric was, by the end of the round, surrounded.
The PCs in the warehouse got to where they could see the fight, but not act yet, and most of them were just ready to get out the door attack, but the paladin looked at the thug leader when she could see her to see if she was evil, and the bard decided to cast message in order to try and make a deal with the thugs and bluff them into letting them go.
The thug leader wasn't inclined to not attack, but the bluff was enough to convince her that the PCs may be rival thugs and not "heroic adventurers."
The thug leader with her first attack tripped the cleric, and he missed with his AoO. The trip resolution was very quick. She rolled, the cleric went down. If the cleric stood up, he would have gotten AoO by five rogues. So he stayed down and fought at negatives to hit.
Sidenote: Trip Strategy I have read a few people not thrilled with the lack of follow up attack with a successful trip, but tactically, this move still makes perfect sense without the follow up.
Especially in a case like this, standing up would have provoked all sorts of attacks, and if the tripped character doesn't stand up, he is at a serious disadvantage.
In short, I'm going to use it a bit more, but this seems to work pretty well so far.
The poor cleric managed to get a critical from the second attack from the thug leader (she had threatened a few, but missed, due to her rapiers). The cleric took double damage and was poisoned from a nicked organ, dropping his Con by one point.
The cleric didn't do well with his negatives to attack, and the thug leader was safe from his blows.
The paladin stepped out into the fray and used her smite on the thug leader, and hit fairly handily against her.
The bard used up his "new" last use of bardic music for everyone, and the goliath attacked across to a thug on the "corner" of him that had cover from the door, but his rage more than made up for the cover from the door.
Thug goes down.
Unfortunately, the flanked and surrounded cleric is hammered by several rogues getting (admittedly minor) sneak attack damage) and is driven down to -3 hit points. The thug leader, sure that the PCs may be another thugish group, has one of the rogues pull the cleric free to be questioned.
The next round, the thug leader scores a couple of minor hits on the paladin, and she connects to the leader as well, though without her smite the damage isn't quite as impressive.
The bard casts a spell that makes on of the rogues nauseated (and almost caught another one), and the goliath squashes another one with his makeshift great club.
The rogues didn't manage to do any significant damage to the rest of the party during this round. The next round, the leader attacked the paladin, missed, and the paladin put her down quickly with a blow from her longsword.
The goliath dropped another thug, and the two remaining ones took off running.
Side Note: The Chase The goliath decided to run down the thugs, and I decided to use the rules for chases that were presented in Kobold Quarterly #3. All references to checks for this chase refer to that. Overall, using the Pathfinder rules didn't seem to impact the optional chase rules at all.
Neither the thugs, nor the goliath had the run feat, and since the chase relied on str checks, the goliath, still raging, was more than able to check up to them on the second round.
Neither one having the run feat, they didn't have a dex bonus and were flat footed, and the goliath rolled high enough for an attack, and managed to drop the first thug handily with his normal damage and sneak attack damage.
The next round, he caught up to the other thug and dropped him in a less fatal manner. Being in a rage allowed the goliath to roll high enough not only to catch up, but to attack as well.
Out of Combat
Once the PCs were out of combat, there were some of the usual adventurer moments of talking their way out of trouble with the watch, between the paladin's diplomacy and the bard's bluff ability.
Ironically, the bard used his bluff on the paladin a few times, and the paladin was glad to have her sense motive back, even if it didn't always "win" for her.
In general, as far as the abilities go, everyone is glad that sense motive is out of deception.
The cleric is angling for the Shadowbane Stalker PrC, and didn't find it too hard to figure out what his requirements are for the class when looking at it in Complete Adventurer.
The paladin was thrilled to get her next level, and was glad to have spells and another smite at this next level.
As usual, under the new chart, XP was really easy to figure up and assign.
Threat Assessment
The average party level was essentially 4th level, given that the paladin was the only 3rd level character (and while I haven't been pushing it, the goliath is a bit more powerful than the other PC races).
With six 2nd level thugs and a 3rd level leader, the encounter comes in around a high challenging.
The PCs lost one PCs in the fight (the cleric, who was revived after the fight was over), the bard used a 2nd level spell and a bardic music, the paladin used a smite, and the goliath burned up his rage between the fight and the chase.
Fifteen Minute Day Assessment
The party was pretty much out of nearly everything but hit points, but given that this night saw them fight a hydra, run into three traps, an animated object, a very young black dragon, and the above ambush, this makes sense.
By the end of the ambush, the PCs had cut fairly heavily into their "reserves," i.e. their healing potions in order to make sure they had enough hit points "just in case."
The barbarian did run his rage points out in a single combat, but given that the goliath only took one level of barbarian and was fourth level, this isn't really representative of how he would have managed his rage had he started out as a barbarian.
Random Questions that Came Up I've long kept track of alignment using the point system outlined in Green Ronin's Advanced Player's Manual, but since the bard took an [evil] spell, I'm wondering if Pathfinder will make an official statement on how this works for arcane casters, who aren't automatically restricted from their use.
Using the GR point system, he just gets a point (my call) on using the spell, and if he does something "goodish" than the point goes away and he stays CN, but I was wondering if there needs to be any clarification on this for the game (I don't see it as a problem one way or another, but it is something that's kind of ambiguous right now in the rules).
Also, I'm using the concept out of the Magic Item compendium that you can make a gather information check (in this case a diplomacy check) to find someone with a magic item available, i.e. so that you can find magic items to buy, but there aren't automatic magic marts.
In other works, the PC asks what kind of magic item they are looking for, or what kind of caster they want to hire, and make the check, and if they miss the check, they aren't finding that item, even if its in the city somewhere.
I'm wondering of some variant of this system for finding available casters or magic items might not be adopted. You could easily base the check on the CL required of the item instead of the "item level" as established by the Magic Item Compendium, and it would probably be sufficiently different to work out for Pathfinder.