Designer Notes: Sneak Attack
Sneak attack now works against nearly every creature you might face. While some might have specific immunity, the change was made so that rogues might be more productive in combat regardless of the adventure. Now it represents being able to find a weak spot more so than striking at vital organs. Generally speaking, only creatures that do not have a
weak spot at all, either due to a homogenous nature or near indestructible build, are immune to sneak attack. Examples might include air, earth, fire, and water elementals, most oozes, and some undead.
On a final note, the changes to the rogue’s sneak attack ability brought up another point of discussion. Since Ivy the rogue could have conceivably utilized her sneak attack ability on the skeletons, if the opportunity had arisen, another question came to light: What about critical hits? The sneak attack is essentially a planned, precise shot to a weak point on a creature’s body. A critical hit is the same thing, though done through luck and circumstance. So it seems feasible that any creature a rogue can sneak attack should also be subject to critical hits. Just our two copper pieces…
The second quote is from my playtest thread for the Alpha 1 release. I thought this idea could use more discussion. As I've said, with the new description of critical hits, there seems to be a logical progression to allow the same rule to apply to critical hits. Comments?
I agree. If you can sneak attack something, you can crit it, too. Or, at least, that is the way it's supposed to be, if you ask me (and even if you don't)
Agreed.
The limitations are often the same, if not always.
I 4th this nomination.
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The second quote is from my playtest thread for the Alpha 1 release. I thought this idea could use more discussion. As I've said, with the new description of critical hits, there seems to be a logical progression to allow the same rule to apply to critical hits. Comments?
The question is whether Jason was trying surgically change just the Sneak Attack ability, or to make a sweeping simplification in the way that bonus damage works. I strongly suspect the latter (which would mean that critical damage is now viable against undead, constructs, etc), but ultimately this needs to be clarified in a future release of the PFRPG rules.
The question is whether Jason was trying surgically change just the Sneak Attack ability, or to make a sweeping simplification in the way that bonus damage works. I strongly suspect the latter (which would mean that critical damage is now viable against undead, constructs, etc), but ultimately this needs to be clarified in a future release of the PFRPG rules.
I suspect it's more the first option, give the rogue's main combat option less chance of getting voided by a significant portion of creature types.
The loss of crtitical hit vs certain creatures more or less affects all classes equally (since these types also have immunities to certain spells) and changing that mechanic would hurt backwards compatibility significatively. That's just how I feel about it but we'll see.
I, personally, am of the opinion that the new crit rules are good. Or, at least a step in the right direction for giving rogues some options in such fights.
At the same time I would like to see creatures types who use to have immunity to such attacks remain.
What I would suggest as a compromise would be:
Sneak Attack: Against creatures immune, now resistant, to crits and SA, have their extra damage dice cut in half (round down). 2d6 SA = 1d6 vs resistant creatures, 10d6 SA = 5d6 vs resistant creatures etc.
Critical Hits: Critical hits would still affect these creatures, though to a lessened degree. Where only the weapon damage gaind the crit multiplier and not any other bonuses due to strength, feats, etc.