I am not trying to start any hate, merely to get the word out to Josh Frost, Vic Wertz, Lisa, and other relevant folks.
My understanding from previous posts here on the board that the term "Adventure Path" is proprietary to Paizo. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Vic pointed that out to me specifically once (I remember because someone thought he was being terse with me and spoke in my defense, but I quite understood and was not offended).
Anyway, to cut to the chase:
James Wyatt of WOTC has participated in interview on ENWorld where he has cited that they are doing, quite specifically, an "Adventure Path."
Joe: So what can we expect from the new online format? It doesn’t seem much different than the old print magazines outside of the humorous interviews with the monsters.
James: What do you mean? We’ve got a new Adventure Path coming for example and…
Joe: Wait, there’s a new AP coming out?
James: Yes. It was a popular feature and we’re glad to be continuing it.
Read it for yourself here You have to scroll down a bit to see it.
FELLOW PAIZO FANS,
I would encourage you to just step back and let Paizo Staff do whatever they want to do. After all, I could be totally wrong about this 'proprietary' language stuff. And if I'm not, we'll all have Paizo's gratitude by letting them deal with it.
Jim / Watcher
Although I wouldn't mind if someone offical did tell me if I'm imagining that 'Adventure Path' is proprietary or not... I'd like to know if I'm mistaken.
I dunno, fighting about that would probably just open up a big can of worms and be unnecessary. After all all the Dragon/Dungeon magazine stuff is property of Wizards and that's where the APs started.
Perhaps.. but that's not our call to make.
My understanding is that you have to proactively defend things like trademarks and copyrights, or they lose their value in the eyes of the courts.
I swear there was a huge thread about this once.
:Watcher racks his brains:
Someone was proposing that Paizo just cede usage of the term for the common good of the whole role-playing community.. and the offical response was that Paizo worked hard to develop and market the concept, and they weren't about to just give the term away for free.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
|
I dunno, fighting about that would probably just open up a big can of worms and be unnecessary. After all all the Dragon/Dungeon magazine stuff is property of Wizards and that's where the APs started.
The term actually predates Shackled City, although it was infrequently used. My google-fu is failing me right now, but it was applied to the Sunless Citadel series of modules, and I believe used before they came out as well.
The term actually predates Shackled City, although it was infrequently used. My google-fu is failing me right now, but it was applied to the Sunless Citadel series of modules, and I believe used before they came out as well.
Hmmm.. then perhaps it's no big deal then?
I just swear this has come up before, only without an instance of an actual competitor using the term, and there was a pretty strong Paizo reaction even to the idea.
Hmmm.. maybe I dreamed it up then.
Hey y'all:
We thought about trademarking Adventure Path at one point, but decided to let the term reside in the common vernacular, so anybody can use the term.
-Lisa
Okay, false alarm...
Sorry!
Glad I didn't say anything over at the other board.
EDIT: Scooped by Lisa...
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
|
Hmmm.. then perhaps it's no big deal then?I just swear this has come up before, only without an instance of an actual competitor using the term, and there was a pretty strong Paizo reaction even to the idea.
Hmmm.. maybe I dreamed it up then.
Here you go, this is from wizards.com, and pretty well establishes prior use of the term adventure path by WotC to refer to a sequence of adventures:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/iw/iw20011007aThe one I *really* want to find is a pre-3rd edition instance of Ryan Dancey using the term, but will obviously be hearsay until I unearth it again.
I fully agree Paizo popularized the term and made it a brand, but they didn't come up with it. I also don't know enough about trademark law to even speculate if that would mean it is or isn't trademarkable now :)
Up until PF 4, there was a TM symbol after the words Adventure Path in the title. Starting with PF 5 (in January) Paizo removed it.
Now the question is...will Wizards try to trademark the term?
Contributor
|
I fully agree Paizo popularized the term and made it a brand, but they didn't come up with it. I also don't know enough about trademark law to even speculate if that would mean it is or isn't trademarkable now :)
It doesn't matter who comes up with a term. It only matter who pays the moneys to trademark it. And then, that company has to protect that trademark (i.e., be willing to go to court or at least hire a good lawyer) if it's already been put out into the common usage. If you don't protect your trademark, you lose it.
I also don't know enough about trademark law to even speculate if that would mean it is or isn't trademarkable now :)
All you really need to know about trademark law is:
- The side with the most lawyers wins.
Chief Technical Officer
|
It doesn't matter who comes up with a term. It only matter who pays the moneys to trademark it. And then, that company has to protect that trademark (i.e., be willing to go to court or at least hire a good lawyer) if it's already been put out into the common usage. If you don't protect your trademark, you lose it.
That's not quite true... you do have to assert first published use in trade in the relevant context. (I don't recall the actual legalese, but that's the gist.) While Wizards did use the term in-house, and in a couple of web articles like the one cited above, we don't think Wizards ever actually used the term in an actual product before we published the Shackled City.
Like Lisa said, we did let the trademark application drop, but we do think that we could have made it stick if we wanted to, and we could almost certainly prevent anyone else from trademarking the term.
So, what I'm saying with all of this is, while we've chosen not to assert ownership of the trademark, we think we can effectively prevent anyone else from doing so, so that should effectively keep it an open term.
So, what I'm saying with all of this is, while we've chosen not to assert ownership of the trademark, we think we can effectively prevent anyone else from doing so, so that should effectively keep it an open term.
Excellent news!
Hey y'all:
We thought about trademarking Adventure Path at one point, but decided to let the term reside in the common vernacular, so anybody can use the term.
-Lisa
Thank you. For once, "common" sense prevails.
While Wizards did use the term in-house, and in a couple of web articles like the one cited above, we don't think Wizards ever actually used the term in an actual product before we published the Shackled City.
So, what I'm saying with all of this is, while we've chosen not to assert ownership of the trademark, we think we can effectively prevent anyone else from doing so, so that should effectively keep it an open term.
I'm sure that I can speak for others when I say: "you guys are cool."
I hope being cool continues to be profitable for you.
While Wizards did use the term in-house, and in a couple of web articles like the one cited above, we don't think Wizards ever actually used the term in an actual product before we published the Shackled City.
So, what I'm saying with all of this is, while we've chosen not to assert ownership of the trademark, we think we can effectively prevent anyone else from doing so, so that should effectively keep it an open term.
I'm sure that I can speak for others when I say: "you guys are cool."
I hope being cool continues to be profitable for you.
And that is the problem...usually being uncool (read: pathologically selfish) becomes more profitable. It is all about externalizing costs and capturing profits, no matter how well intentioned you are when you start out.
I have to go back to eating granola now.
Well I regret stirring anything up, if I did.
And as Kruelaid said, Paizo is quite cool.
On a related side note: it would seem that they (WOTC) have identified a marketing weak point and are moving to try and fill that need. Of course, any discussion of that belongs in a different sub-board than this one.
...usually being uncool (read: pathologically selfish) becomes more profitable.Personally, I'd rather be profitable and cool than MORE profitable and uncool.
Good man.
I hope you guys are never bought out by someone who feels differently...like some other companies one might mention. :/
Personally, I'd rather be profitable and cool than MORE profitable and uncool.
Now that's a quote worthy of remembering.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
...usually being uncool (read: pathologically selfish) becomes more profitable.Personally, I'd rather be profitable and cool than MORE profitable and uncool.
Good man.
I hope you guys are never bought out by someone who feels differently...like some other companies one might mention. :/
A private company getting bought out isn't a passive decision. It's not as if someone says "Hey, I'll pay $15 million for Paizo" and everyone there goes "Aw shit, the price on the company is $15 million, I guess that dude owns it now." So, in order to be bought out by someone who feels differently, the owners of Paizo would need to feel differently, and hence be uncool.
So, I think what you want to say is to continue being cool, which includes not being uncool by selling ownership of the company to someone uncool.
(Of course, were Paizo to somehow become publicly traded, a hostile transaction becomes possible, it's just really unlikely that Paizo would somehow become publicly traded, particularly without decreasing their coolness).
A private company getting bought out isn't a passive decision. It's not as if someone says "Hey, I'll pay $15 million for Paizo" and everyone there goes "Aw s!@%, the price on the company is $15 million, I guess that dude owns it now." So, in order to be bought out by someone who feels differently, the owners of Paizo would need to feel differently, and hence be uncool.
So, I think what you want to say is to continue being cool, which includes not being uncool by selling ownership of the company to someone uncool.
(Of course, were Paizo to somehow become publicly traded, a hostile transaction becomes possible, it's just really unlikely that Paizo would somehow become publicly traded, particularly without decreasing their coolness).
that's cool...
If I ever won the lottery I'd try and buy Paizo =p, there'd be Pathfinder novels and video games and underwear, it'd be awesome.
Well I suppose if that new iconic can carry a sword that ridiculously large, Pathfinder underwear might be able accomodate me. I'm in.
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
If I ever won the lottery I'd try and buy Paizo =p, there'd be Pathfinder novels and video games and underwear, it'd be awesome.Well I suppose if that new iconic can carry a sword that ridiculously large, Pathfinder underwear might be able accomodate me. I'm in.
If properly funded, Erik Mona and I will ensure that dimensionally transcendental technology is created to ensure that your tighty-whities are bigger on the inside than on the outside.
The opposite would probably sell better, Vic.
BTW, Watcher, nice spelling in the thread title. Snickers maliciously.
If properly funded, Erik Mona and I will ensure that dimensionally transcendental technology is created to ensure that your tighty-whities are bigger on the inside than on the outside.If I ever won the lottery I'd try and buy Paizo =p, there'd be Pathfinder novels and video games and underwear, it'd be awesome.Well I suppose if that new iconic can carry a sword that ridiculously large, Pathfinder underwear might be able accomodate me. I'm in.
Tardis underoos. I like it!
The opposite would probably sell better, Vic.
So true, but the eventual unveiling of the goods ensures quite the disappointing shock.
Sigh!
I think we need to start something called "The Jade's Law". It works like Godwin's Law except that the longer a thread gets the more likely it is that The Jade will enter and write something that makes someone else's eyes water. :)
Sigh!
I think we need to start something called "The Jade's Law". It works like Godwin's Law except that the longer a thread gets the more likely it is that The Jade will enter and write something that makes someone else's eyes water. :)
I'm the onion of your eye! :)
So true, but the eventual unveiling of the goods ensures quite the disappointing shock.
Hmmm. Written on the same computer that is busy dispatching emails promising expansive girth and length to tiny phallused men (and women) everywhere?
Sigh!
I think we need to start something called "The Jade's Law". It works like Godwin's Law except that the longer a thread gets the more likely it is that The Jade will enter and write something that makes someone else's eyes water. :)
There are other factors at play, I think.
Which is to say, and perhaps it needs to be said in the midst of the Jade's underpants thread, length isn't everything.
Sigh!
I think we need to start something called "The Jade's Law". It works like Godwin's Law except that the longer a thread gets the more likely it is that The Jade will enter and write something that makes someone else's eyes water. :)
There are other factors at play, I think.
Which is to say, and perhaps it needs to be said in the midst of the Jade's underpants thread, length isn't everything.
You're right, length, thickness, natural ability and years of experience aren't everything. There's croissants and dandelions and they're darn important too.
Wow, for a second there, I thought I had opened my e-mail window.
Would you like a longer penis?
He's got me WAY beat. A guy like that has no choice but elephant porn.
BTW, Watcher, nice spelling in the thread title. Snickers maliciously.Can't believe I missed that. Fixed!
You guys got me..
Now I'm curious what I actually write.
BTW, Watcher, nice spelling in the thread title. Snickers maliciously.Can't believe I missed that. Fixed!You guys got me..
Now I'm curious what I actually write.
You wrote phase instead of phrase.
You wrote phase instead of phrase.
Now I'm curious what I actually write.
I can't believe I actually wrote: Now I'm curious what I actually write.
Frickin' fumbled my spelling grammer twice.
You wrote phase instead of phrase.
Now I'm curious what I actually write.
I can't believe I actually wrote: Now I'm curious what I actually write.
Frickin' fumbled my spelling grammer twice.
I saw that but didn't want to pile on. <:)
Well thank goodness for that; now I can start using the term "Adventure Path" again in normal conversation. Imaginary Property = preposterous, and I commend you (Paizo).
If properly funded, Erik Mona and I will ensure that dimensionally transcendental technology is created to ensure that your tighty-whities are bigger on the inside than on the outside.If I ever won the lottery I'd try and buy Paizo =p, there'd be Pathfinder novels and video games and underwear, it'd be awesome.Well I suppose if that new iconic can carry a sword that ridiculously large, Pathfinder underwear might be able accomodate me. I'm in.
About time! I have a 33 waist and a 45 seat, and I'm male. I need this product like you wouldn't believe!
A funny thing about the term "adventure path."
Wizards planned out a series of adventures for 3e so that you'd be able to play levels 1-20, and these adventures would probably be a community-common experience much in the same way that "basic" D&D people played Keep on the Borderlands and Isle of Dread, 1e players played GDQ, and so on. Thus, you have The Sunless Citadel, etc.
But they didn't want you to HAVE to have played the previous adventures in order to play the later adventures. Why? Because long ago they found that sales tend to trickle off the later numbers in a series, especially if book 1 is out of print and a new player is looking at the shelf and only seeking books 2+. So these adventures were never branded as an adventure path, they were never given a common letter designation (like G for the Giants series), nor were they given serialized numbers (like AP1, AP2).
In fact, one of the art directors overheard someone talking about the "adventure path" and was worried because they hadn't been trying to synchronize the art look across these various adventures. The brand team told them this was deliberate and not to worry about it.
So the Wizards adventure path was only informally so, and it was never intended to be a trademark or anything like that.
|
A funny thing about the term "adventure path."
Wizards planned out a series of adventures for 3e so that you'd be able to play levels 1-20, and these adventures would probably be a community-common experience much in the same way that "basic" D&D people played Keep on the Borderlands and Isle of Dread, 1e players played GDQ, and so on. Thus, you have The Sunless Citadel, etc.But they didn't want you to HAVE to have played the previous adventures in order to play the later adventures. Why? Because long ago they found that sales tend to trickle off the later numbers in a series, especially if book 1 is out of print and a new player is looking at the shelf and only seeking books 2+. So these adventures were never branded as an adventure path, they were never given a common letter designation (like G for the Giants series), nor were they given serialized numbers (like AP1, AP2).
In fact, one of the art directors overheard someone talking about the "adventure path" and was worried because they hadn't been trying to synchronize the art look across these various adventures. The brand team told them this was deliberate and not to worry about it.
So the Wizards adventure path was only informally so, and it was never intended to be a trademark or anything like that.
I remember that coming up at WOTC Q&As at GenCon back in the day. Still love hearing about what was going on in the offices though.