Hi,
Can we create a separate primary topic for "new rule suggestions?"
I really really really really really don't care about any of them - I'm interested ONLY in the Alpha release and trying to wrest it into something I can use - and trying to wade through 2.2B posts is like trying to take a sip of water from a fire hose.
I have nothing against all the ideas people are having - it's great that they have lots of ideas, but the new ideas have absolutely nothing to do with playtesting the Alpha Pathfinder release.
I do not have time to read 12,000 posts (or whatever it has climbed to since I last added up the vast quantities of posts), and it seems to me that 95% of what is out there is new rule chaff.
EDIT: There are merely 10,801 posts at the present time, please excuse my exaggeration :)
I second this suggestion. First time posting and just like above can't really wade through the BS to find what I *want* to read.
BTW, Love the Alpha, Starting to hate 4ed more every day. This is what they should have done.
Oh... and if you are not one of the designers and you are trying to keep up on all 10K+ posts... then, well, good luck.
But see, that's part of the problem. Someone starts going off on how skill points should be based off of your constitution bonus or something like this, a lot of posters quit paying attention, and then all of the sudden there are fifty posts dealing with something that is in Alpha, and suddenly all over the board you get comments like:
"Well, it appears the majority of people really hate subsystem X, since there was such a backlash in the Constitution Skill Point thread," but a lot of people, that have just as much reason to post their opinion, quit following that thread because it veered into so much theoretical territory.
Yeah, it really does seem like waaaaaaaay too many posters have confused the call for input and playtest with a request to take over Jason's job. Also amusing is the vehemence with which certain super-fringe suggestions are defended as being exactly what Jason is asking for (or somehow otherwise worthy of Jason's consideration in a way all those "other" super-fringe suggestions are not).
Why doesn't Paizo just set up primary topic feedback threads to their tastes per the alpha document with a general comment thread for each chapter for other comments?
Something like a general topic races pages although breaking it down just a little further to Dwarves pages 3 - 4, Elves page 4, closing with Races general comments thread.
It will make it easier for the reviewers to post a short to the point comment. I like this or I don't like this because of ...... so don't change this from core or consider another alternative like........
Not so sure it is a good idea. For example, where would suggestions on Starting Hit points be? The Alpha document asks for this, but anything suggested is likely to diverge into the "new rules" territory pretty quickly.
How so? One thing that virtually everyone has ignored is the request that commentary include the section/page numbers.
It's pretty clear where commentary about starting hit points would go - in a topic titled "Starting Hit Points [page 11]."
It's also pretty clear that something about "Hey, we should get rid of iterative attacks" belongs nowhere in the context of commentary on the existing Alpha rules. I don't want to nix this stuff (even though I have my own opinion on how useful it is), but nor do I want to have to wade through it when all I'm trying to do is engage in discussion on the Alpha rules.
Should Jason mine the new rules section and decide that he wishes to include something, then sure, I'm willing to discuss it. Until then, I'd really prefer not to have to wade through 8,000 posts discussing house rules in order to find the few that are actually on topic.
I would also like to see a separate section for playtest reports. And a format for us to use to make the info more useful for Jason and co. Include in the format a preferred method of naming the playtest reports.
This topic pretty sums up my point when I started the "Posters Are Blowing It" thread. It's too hard to find specific Alpha 1 playtest discussions when you have to wade through Tom, Dick, and Harry's House Rules for Economics and Kobold Business Venutures.
I made that last one up.
While I must admit that I can count myself to the posting fraction mentioned above, ME TOO would like to see this kind of change.
As I found Pathfinder and this board, all those discussions were already going, so I thought it's the common way here.
But I think (being a hobby game designer myself) the house-rule bombardment should be reduced or better reaimed into those categories the lead designers are focusing at the moment.
The Design Focus topics are a good start (besides: make them sticky!), but there should be only one thread about Elves, one for dwarves, one for... where all posters can state what they like/not like/being changed, and leave the playtesting threads alone and clear.
Long text short sense.
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Some discussions will cover more than one topic, unfortunately.
Eg, "I think Half-Elves' racial mods should follow/differ from the humans' racial mods proposed in the human thread..."
is just as valid in the half-elf or human thread.
Just use common sense, and, if you can forsee your post will generate a lot of potential off-topic discussion, post a link to the other thread, so others can keep things in the relevant place.
Some posts are pleas to the devs to address key problems in DnD (and they might contain potential solutions). Where should they go?
Well I must admit that perhaps they should use a better forum software.
There are several other softwares which would improve structure and clarity a lot!
(I like this one here, don't know its name.)
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The problem isn't the software, it is the content of the posts (and their general irrelevance to the alpha). While the enthusiasm it has generated is great, I would favour a much more structured approach. Maybe they could set up a "speculative" section for more out-there, radical changes that are not currently being addressed in the alpha, but which might feasibly have worth in a beta or final version.
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I saw the deluge of posts on why "my house rule #432 is a must-have for PRPG" and haven't even attempted to participate in the alpha process because I felt it was headed toward the 4e/3e debacle.
I would love to see Paizo deputize a few of the more trusted board members to sort (not moderate/delete, just sort) the posts into useful categories so those of us that wanted to focus on the alpha rules could do so without clutter.
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Yes, I too call for any post that I don't agree with, or find boring to read, or think would detract from the amount of time that Jason has to minutely examine *my* very important and terribly serious ideas to be sorted into some other thread where I don't have to see it, and it won't waste Jason's time, which he absolutely should be devoted exclusively to suggestions that I like.
Also, there should be random shootings.
Just to spice things up.
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Yes, I too call for any post that I don't agree with, or find boring to read, or think would detract from the amount of time that Jason has to minutely examine *my* very important and terribly serious ideas to be sorted into some other thread where I don't have to see it, and it won't waste Jason's time, which he absolutely should be devoted exclusively to suggestions that I like.
Also, there should be random shootings.
Just to spice things up.
I don't agree with this post, and I am VERY important. Please remove this post from my sight....
;P
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Yes, I too call for any post that I don't agree with, or find boring to read, or think would detract from the amount of time that Jason has to minutely examine *my* very important and terribly serious ideas to be sorted into some other thread where I don't have to see it, and it won't waste Jason's time, which he absolutely should be devoted exclusively to suggestions that I like.
Also, there should be random shootings.
Just to spice things up.
I don't agree with this post, and I am VERY important. Please remove this post from my sight....
;P
Dear Paizo Moderators. Smite this heretic. Even his name, 'fake healer' is offensive to mine eyes!
Also, I'd like a pony. :)
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Yes, I too call for any post that I don't agree with, or find boring to read, or think would detract from the amount of time that Jason has to minutely examine *my* very important and terribly serious ideas to be sorted into some other thread where I don't have to see it, and it won't waste Jason's time, which he absolutely should be devoted exclusively to suggestions that I like.
I am not certain if this post was directed at my comment or not, but I will take the bait.
It isn't Jason's time that concerns me or posts that I disagree with, it is that finding useful commentary on the ARAW (Alpha Rules As Written) is difficult at best, which means both my time is wasted and the explicitly stated purpose of the threads is being co-opted. To be clear, I have posted only a few comments in the Alpha thread (none of them directly rules-related, just posts to point out mootness) and do not plan on posting any in the future but I am interested in what those playtesting and examining the material as written have found through their efforts.
I would absolutely love if the beta rules were made available for say, $200, and the beta forum open only to those that have ponied up their cash. It would rapidly sort the chaff from the wheat, or at least make sure the chaff had a vested interest in prattling on.
Also, there should be random shootings.
I couldn't agree with you more.
Well, $200 is a bit steep, but pretty much any amount of cash would separate a lot of the wheat from the chaff.
I'd be ecstatic if there were an "anyone who pre-orders the Beta" only forum. Does it exclude people? Absolutely. Does it only include people who are serious about Pathfinder? Absolutely.
Frankly, I'm ignoring Alpha 1.1 for now other than reading it - the changes as written are too large for me to practically do any playtesting in an existing campaign. Maybe in the next month or so I'll run a one-shot, but it's not likely - the one week a month I give myself for downtime is sorely needed these days.
Note that it's a damn shame, too. I run an epic campaign, and was really looking forward to playtesting Pathfinder at an epic level. It's just not feasible to redo that amount of material.