Amiri-
Ahem, blatant Final Fantasy 7 rip-off... If Cloud were a woman, this is what she'd be like.. Come on guys!
Of course, many of the new school of gaming will shake their heads...
"Final Fantasy 7!?"
"What the heck is that?" or "Man, the graphics on that game were crappus maximus! GAG! ACK!"
"They named characters after visible manifestations of condensed water vapor for video games in the 90s? What a lame decade that was!"
I think you guys could do better, you are one of the most exciting companies in the RPG industry and this was a bit of a let down.
But, you are the uber corporation now, so I guess whatever floats your stufloaten.. (ah yes stufloaten.. How can a post like this be taken seriously with fictitious words)
Cheers-
GG
Well, some folks have said Amiri is their favorite so far, so different strokes for different folks, I guess. By the time we're done we'll have 12 of these guys, so everyone ought to be able to find a favorite.
Given...
However, if Congress has to take you before a committee as one of the top 5 gaming companies in the nation and during the hearing they throw up a picture of Amiri, and then a picture of Cloud..
Senator: "Ahem, Mr. Mona? Do you see the correlation?"
Eric Mona: "Yes, Senator, I do, but the fans wanted a female Cloud. We like to mix things up like Battlestar Galactica did with Starbuck."
Senator: "What the heck is Battlestar Galactica? And what does that have to do with national security?"
Eric Mona: "Beg your pardon Senator? But when did this ever have to do with national security?"
Senator: "Just as long as you know you're ripping off the Japanese son."
Eric Mona: "Begging your pardon Senator, some of our fans are big fans of the Japanese.. Ahem.. But not enough to comprimise national security. Now what about the rising prices of fuel and food?"
Senator: "Ahhhh... Rriiight.. This committee is adjourned."
Cheers-
GG
Hey, while I'm all about Final Fantasy, aside from both having large swords--which we did specifically want and is explained in her back story--I don't really see any correlations. Cloud's got a big worked metal sword, Amiri has a big frost giant sword (which she needs to rage to even use).
If you wanta talk rip-offs, though, check out Ezren. I mean, really, white hair, beard, staff, magic... come on, the Gandalf look was so out for wizards like twenty years ago.
laughter~ Yea. So retro!
Yeah, but Ezren's, like, grumpy Gandalf. Gandalf with attitude. What could be more 21st century than reviving a classic from the past with a surly edge?
I'll admit the 1st thing that went through my mind when seeing Amiri w/ that honkin' huge sword was Cloud from FFVII. But beyond the sword--which is given a great backstory, btw, by Paizo--there's nothing else connecting the 2. If it was another artist to do Amiri, w/ an obvious anime look, well, the OP might have had more of a point.
I'll agree w/ the others who find Amiri one of the most appealing iconics to date! She looks great, and her story kicks ass. About time we had a female barbarian, anyway!
Now if we can just convince the powers that be to give us a 12th iconic. I don't know...how about a Soulknife, so we can open the door a crack for us psionics fans? ;-)
Give cloud his sword back.
He cries and re-gels his hair every time you take it.
This is from another thread but it applies here so well I could not resist.
Didn't we have this argument on the threads already?
Or is it just the drugs?
Didn't we have this argument on the threads already?
Or is it just the drugs?
You mean the one where I likened my wang to an angry dumptruck?
It's a new flame reduction mechanism. Any time there is a thread where people are disagreeing, it autolocks after about a page and a half. This is where Gary found that people usually switch over from arguing over the basic premise, such as the relative lameness or coolness of swords that are as wide as they are long, to calling each other morons.
At this point, the thread has to be restarted, and everyone goes back to stating their basic position. This repeats until everyone gets worn out.
Ezren is hands down the coolest iconic.
First of all they went retro and pulled out the concept of wizards being old white bearded men.
Then they used the logic that adventurers wouldnt wear robes. They would wear traveling cloaks and boots and have backpabcks and equipment on their belts.
Hes just so cool that no one can touch him.
Second place is the Elf Rogue for being kinda hot. 8-P
Or we switch to smurfiness.
Can the 12th iconic be a Blue Goblin Psion? Call him Simon the Psi-Smurf?
tee hee
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Well, some folks have said Amiri is their favorite so far, so different strokes for different folks, I guess. By the time we're done we'll have 12 of these guys, so everyone ought to be able to find a favorite.
Given the reception to her general all-over hawtness, I predict a good few folk have already been having themselves a few 'different strokes'...
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Amiri-
Ahem, blatant Final Fantasy 7 rip-off... If Cloud were a woman, this is what she'd be like.. Come on guys!
The only thing I know about FF is that it's 1) a video game and 2) that sci-fi movie way back that got geek guys (and maybe a few women) downloading pics of the oh-so-realistic yet inhumanly virtual female lead. So how does this female "Cloud" -- whoever that is -- detract from module? (As for the Gandalf versus Ezren(?) comparo -- don't see it. The latter looks way too butch :) )
FF7 seems to have cornered the market on "large sword imagery". But thats kind of like saying that LotR has a monopoly on "magic rings" and Star Wars on "inborn powers" and Frankenstein on "humanity of the inhuman". But I don't often see people bring them up when someone designs an Uber Magic Ring, or comes up with a character concept for a sorceror with a flaming/brilliant energy sword, or a warforged.
I'm a super nerd. Heavily into anime, video games (local and japanese), comics (local and japanese), rpgs, mmorpgs, fantasy literature, minis (even WH40k), and all the rest.
Maybe its my over indulgence, but big swords don't immediately spark FF7 flashbacks in my mind. I think of Guts from the anime Berzerk, or Jenni from Rune Soldier Louie. Heck, I think of Sephiroth before I think of Cloud.
And I think the whole "clone of" mentality is a bit skewed. So carrying similar gear makes one a clone? What about physical features, or personality traits? What if the barbarian had spiky blond hair? Or amnesia, and a flower selling boyfreind?
Is the "clone" label actual an acknowledgement of the general failure of players to mimick the personality of the "cloned", such as in the case of many "Drizzt Clones"?
I am intrigued now, I must ponder.
Then they used the logic that adventurers wouldnt wear robes. They would wear traveling cloaks and boots and have backpabcks and equipment on their belts.
Yeah - I love that the iconics dress "like PCs". They are fully-loaded, like a veteran PC with a packed character sheet.
You may say it's too busy or that there's an encumbrance issue, but that's what most of my PCs would look like and I like the honesty.
I think one of my favourite touches of all the iconics so far has been the dangling "car keys" on the leg of the paladin. OK, they're probably not for her wheels, but it's a great item of detail.
Ezren is hands down the coolest iconic.
First of all they went retro and pulled out the concept of wizards being old white bearded men.
Then they used the logic that adventurers wouldnt wear robes. They would wear traveling cloaks and boots and have backpabcks and equipment on their belts.
Hes just so cool that no one can touch him.
Second place is the Elf Rogue for being kinda hot. 8-P
I think Seoni is actually more popular among the artists. I noticed in the artwork in Sins of the Saviour's that just about every picture that had iconics in it features Seoni and shes either jumping around so as to imply that she will not seem so modestly attired if you just wait for a few seconds and let gravity or inertial do its work or alternatively we are at some kind of an angle where we are looking down her ... uhhh, what is she wearing anyway? A robe maybe? Anyway we get various shots that seriously showcase her bust.
Not that I'm complaining or anything ... every time she comes up on the screen my monitor starts flickering and smoke pours from the vents.
Creative Director
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I think Seoni is actually more popular among the artists. I noticed in the artwork in Sins of the Saviour's that just about every picture that had iconics in it features Seoni and shes either jumping around so as to imply that she will not seem so modestly attired if you just wait for a few seconds and let gravity or inertial do its work or alternatively we are at some kind of an angle where we are looking down her ... uhhh, what is she wearing anyway? A robe maybe? Anyway we get various shots that seriously showcase her bust.
Not that I'm complaining or anything ... every time she comes up on the screen my monitor starts flickering and smoke pours from the vents.
The reason Seoni seems more popular with the artists, actually, is that for a LONG time, the only iconics we had were her and Valeros. We didn't have reference for Merisiel or Kyra until, If I remember correctly, like the fourth or maybe even the fifth Gamemastery Module. We generally don't let our artists pick which iconics they use in their art; we say "The iconic sorcerer fights a gnoll" and send the reference for Seoni and a gnoll and that's pretty much that.
Now that we've got reference for 10 of our 12 iconics, you'll soon be seeing a wider range of them appearing in the art.
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Yeah, but Ezren's, like, grumpy Gandalf. Gandalf with attitude. What could be more 21st century than reviving a classic from the past with a surly edge?
I thought he was a gimpy/hippie rip-off of Sean Connery. I'm hoping the 12th iconic is a cloistered cleric of Irori that looks like Alex Trebeck.
"Sanjo, you bookish bashtard, you've shtolen my lucky shock again!"
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Hmm I didn't think cloud when i saw the pick. Now my first thought at seeing the sword was anime, but then Mr Reynolds art has a very slight bent that way anyways.
I do think she is my fav or second fav so far. The fact she has scars on her face and side I just thought was so cool. Merisiel is my other fav so far. Though really can't say there has been anything that I didn't like a lot. I do agree Ezren does look a lot more like what I think a wizard would really look like as a adventure than most fantasy art.
I thought he was a gimpy/hippie rip-off of Sean Connery.
"Sanjo, you bookish bashtard, you've shtolen my lucky shock again!"
LOL! That' what I thought of when I saw Ezren - Sean Conneryish mage!
Ezren: "Our situation has not improved!"
Any other party member: "Would you stop saying that! You've said that every time we fight something in this dungeon!"
Only in anime world swords like that can be founded in Berserk or Record of Lodoss War ;) Is Cloud a copy of Orson or Gatsu?
And in D&D you have the fullblade in arms and equipment guide ;)
I think I was the first to reference cloud on the other thread about this chick...specifically to give his sword back before he starts crying and gelling his hair again.
That being said, I have no problem with the humongous sword (and the visible underwear for that matter).
I like a wide variety of art. Typically giants should wield a sword like that, but if the occasional female who violates the office dress-code policy with great abandon gets her hands on one, I can deal with it.
As long as everybody doesn't start hauling them around.
[So how does this female "Cloud" -- whoever that is -- detract from module?
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never stated that the module would be found deficient just because of an observation that one of its iconics bore a striking resemblance to a video game character.
Once the module comes out, we can make a more accurate assessment of what adds or detracts to the module. I will say this, it certainly isn't going to be one illustration that makes a detraction to the value of the module.
Paizo has consistently printed excellent gaming material in their Pathfinder line. At their worst, the material is still decent. Never have I seen a Pathfinder module thus far where once I received it, I was disappointed with its content.
My discussion is based entirely upon on an aesthetic opinion, and should be treated as such.. Along with some lame ass attempts as humor.
If this post has been considered as extremely abrasive ... Then I wholeheartedly apologize to anybody who was offended by my post. This means Mr. Mona, Mr. Schneider, and everybody else who read this post and deemed it offensive.
Cheers
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Okay, fine. Everybody hates giant swords. Final Fantasy, Bleach, Devil May Cry, only little kids and anime fans think that rediculously giant swords are cool.
But, In this case, I'm willing to accept it, for 2 reasons:
1. Explanation. It's a sword sized for a giant, taken from a dead giant, wielded by a character with a damn high strength score. It's not purely some stupid exaggerated character design, and it's admitted in-world that the sword is stupidly huge.
2. She suffers for her weapon selection. not terribly, but that -2 is there, and it has an effect. It's an interesting character hook, not a Final Fantasy ripoff.
I can bear with this iconic, as long as we dont see much more anime stuff.
She's cool.
You guys are acting like one friggin big sword is going to turn pathfinder into Big-Eyes-Small-Mouth
I like all the iconics so far, particularly Merisel and Sajan. The first because she's cute, the second because he's a monk that isnt some monastary-living wise man who knows kung-fu. you know, unlike every other monk, ever.
oversized weapons? hmmm...anyone taken a look at Frazetta's Death Dealer series lately. That axe is massive! ;) Or the bulk of Vallejo? Royo? Achilleos? or the comic character Slaine? Not like Stormbringer and Mournblade are often drawn to the scale of an actual great sword.
Stating oversized weapons is "Final Fantasy 7" is inane and ignores a long standing tradition of massive weapons in fantasy art.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
oversized weapons? hmmm...anyone taken a look at Frazetta's Death Dealer series lately. That axe is massive! ;) Or the bulk of Vallejo? Royo? Achilleos? or the comic character Slaine? Not like Stormbringer and Mournblade are often drawn to the scale of an actual great sword.
Stating oversized weapons is "Final Fantasy 7" is inane and ignores a long standing tradition of massive weapons in fantasy art.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
it doesn't make them less stupid looking though.
Its amazing how just when it dies down, someone says something to get it fired up again. Not like I'm not guilty of the same thing; just observing that it is actually amazing how badly the trend gets repeated.
it doesn't make them less stupid looking though.oversized weapons? hmmm...anyone taken a look at Frazetta's Death Dealer series lately. That axe is massive! ;) Or the bulk of Vallejo? Royo? Achilleos? or the comic character Slaine? Not like Stormbringer and Mournblade are often drawn to the scale of an actual great sword.
Stating oversized weapons is "Final Fantasy 7" is inane and ignores a long standing tradition of massive weapons in fantasy art.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Whether something looks stupid or not is a statement of personal aesthetics not imperical fact. Personally, I like everything from ultra-realistic to extremely fantastic weapons in art. More the composition and feel of the piece as a whole. And in my aesthetic view, the picture of Amiri is very fitting to her and the weapon's origin interesting. Overall, I love Mr Reynolds work, especially his panoramic art. It is a very distinctive and evocative yet very malleable style. The art for Pathfinder and Eberron create very solid feelings of the setting, yet are not the same.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
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Okay, fine. Everybody hates giant swords. Final Fantasy, Bleach, Devil May Cry, only little kids and anime fans think that rediculously giant swords are cool.
But, In this case, I'm willing to accept it, for 2 reasons:
1. Explanation. It's a sword sized for a giant, taken from a dead giant, wielded by a character with a damn high strength score. It's not purely some stupid exaggerated character design, and it's admitted in-world that the sword is stupidly huge.2. She suffers for her weapon selection. not terribly, but that -2 is there, and it has an effect. It's an interesting character hook, not a Final Fantasy ripoff.
I can bear with this iconic, as long as we dont see much more anime stuff.
She's cool.
You guys are acting like one friggin big sword is going to turn pathfinder into Big-Eyes-Small-MouthI like all the iconics so far, particularly Merisel and Sajan. The first because she's cute, the second because he's a monk that isnt some monastary-living wise man who knows kung-fu. you know, unlike every other monk, ever.
3. She's a BARBARIAN. Hitting like a train is preferred over accuracy by the "brute warrior" archetype. The thinking goes if you only need to hit ONCE you won't need to worry about accuracy as much. To pull that stunt off, though, the biggest, baddest, nastiest weapon you can get your hands on is usually a good idea. I've seen greatswords, greataxes, scythes, etc. A large bastard sword is that idea taken to its logical extreme.
Reminds me of Gerard from the Amber Chronicles. Sure Benedict was a better warrior, but it was suggested in the series that if Gerard landed even one blow he was so much stonger it would end the fight right then and there.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Whether something looks stupid or not is a statement of personal aesthetics not imperical fact.
I never claimed otherwise (besides imperical fact is over rated).
Whether something looks stupid or not is a statement of personal aesthetics not imperical fact.
I never claimed otherwise (besides imperical fact is over rated).
Whereas empirical facts are not? :?
Reminds me of Gerard from the Amber Chronicles. Sure Benedict was a better warrior, but it was suggested in the series that if Gerard landed even one blow he was so much stonger it would end the fight right then and there.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Makes me think of the fighter vrs the barbarian. The fighter has the same attack mod thanks to Weapon Focus. In fact, its better because the barbarian keeps blowing his base attack on power attack. But in the end, its an interesting race between +4 Longsword (1d8+2) and +3 Greataxe (1d12+6)... and thats before rage.
Sure, the fighter has better defense, wider crit range, etc. Im just saying, the mechanics parellel the quote.
Makes me think of the fighter vrs the barbarian. The fighter has the same attack mod thanks to Weapon Focus. In fact, its better because the barbarian keeps blowing his base attack on power attack. But in the end, its an interesting race between +4 Longsword (1d8+2) and +3 Greataxe (1d12+6)... and thats before rage.
Sure, the fighter has better defense, wider crit range, etc. Im just saying, the mechanics parellel the quote.
In a stand-and-deliver sort of fight, the new Pathfinder Fighter with the boosts to weapons and armor is a closer match for the barbarian . Which I am glad to see.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
don't get me wrong, just because I think gigantic over sized weapons in fanatsy art look dumb doesn't mean that I Dislike Waynes art... quite the opposite in fact... if anything I wish he would do more art for pathfinder then just the iconics and covers.
also, to be fair, I looking at the chick with the gaint sword did not make me immediatly think of Cloud from FF7, clouds "buster" sword was WAY more stupid looking then the one the barbarian iconic has.
Either way it's in no way overshadowed by the hammer of the Lawbringer in pathfinder 8 (I think), and that's one of my favorite pictures thusfar.
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I'll take Wayne Reynold's artwork over Tetsuya Nomura's any day of the week, and not just because Wayne actually knows the meaning of the word "restraint". As noted earlier, Amiri's sword isn't nearly as ridiculous as the Cloud's Buster Sword, and she herself looks sturdier than Cloud did. I admit I'd prefer it if she was a bit more buff(and maybe had a mohawk or topknot or some other such wilder "barbarian" hairstyle, but that probably wouldn't fly with an iconic), but at least she's not yet another whisper-thin figure lugging a hunk of metal around that often turns up in manga and manga-inspired art. And I absolutely LOVE that she has to rage to use it.
If I had to say it reminded me of any anime, manga, or game character upon first sight I would have to say Guts from Berserk, and even that's a stretch. Ridiculously oversized weapons are too widespread to attribute solely at FF7's feet whenever they turn up. It's not as if FF7 was even the first time that even turned up(on either side of the Pacific).
Again, I love Wayne's work. He's quickly become one of my favorite D&D artists. I have a huge soft spot for wilder character designs(which is one reason Tony DiTerlizzi's Planescape work is still my all-time favorite D&D art).