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For a program of breeding as mentioned taking men makes more sense.
Adventurer: "We will protect your daughters from the orc menace."
Village Elder: "They're not here for the women, you idiots! They're after the men."Does become a bit of a surreal image of orc raiders running off with several strapping young farm boys over their shoulders instead of the usual tavern serving girl. Logically, they would also take the apparently strongest and smartest they could...sustained raiding by the orcs may result in a village of physically weak and mentally slow humans whom the orcs eventually lose interest in raiding and move to another village.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Yes there is a certain evil logic to that...the Prospect of My Male Apprentice Wizard being abducted for breeding purposes sounds rather scary...
Then the Prospect of Human Women having to rescue their men from certain sex...
WE WANT SNU SNU!!!!
For a program of breeding as mentioned taking men makes more sense.
Adventurer: "We will protect your daughters from the orc menace."
Village Elder: "They're not here for the women, you idiots! They're after the men."Does become a bit of a surreal image of orc raiders running off with several strapping young farm boys over their shoulders instead of the usual tavern serving girl. Logically, they would also take the apparently strongest and smartest they could...sustained raiding by the orcs may result in a village of physically weak and mentally slow humans whom the orcs eventually lose interest in raiding and move to another village.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
WE WANT SNU SNU!!!!Yes there is a certain evil logic to that...the Prospect of My Male Apprentice Wizard being abducted for breeding purposes sounds rather scary...
Then the Prospect of Human Women having to rescue their men from certain sex...
ya made me spit out my drink.
nah just water. damned funny though.i miss that show
I have only skimmed the bulk of this thread, but I just wanted to pop in and say that in my opinion, the text for these races is fine as is.
All of those are by the same couple of guys, right?
There is a ton of research on the subject.
http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/THOUH/thornhill-preface.pdf
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_1_38/ai_75820043/pg_1
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/92013847/ABSTRACT
http://iranscope.ghandchi.com/Anthology/Women/rape.htm
I didn't do an extensive literature search for a tangental subject. My point was that the general statement that rape is not about sex is not uncontroversial in the scientific community. I was not making an appeal to authority but providig a few sources because soneone requested them. I don't see anyone requesting sourves for the initial assertion.
Sexual violence is a signficant part of reproduction among some species of animals.
The previously mentined concepts of orcs commiting organized rape raids or capturing prisoners for reproduction is not that far-fetched. It could certainly add an element of "damnsel in distress" to some adventures.
Mike
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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My point was that the general statement that rape is not about sex is not uncontroversial in the scientific community. ... The previously mentined concepts of orcs commiting organized rape raids or capturing prisoners for reproduction is not that far-fetched.
I said rape was about power not desire. I never said it wasn't about sex. The power to control a woman's reproductive capabilities is a form of power.
Anyone who thinks that sexual attraction to persons of other demihuman races would be at all uncommon is blissfully new to the deeper horrors of the Internet.
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Still, this is taking us down a path where Being raped by five male Dwarves causes facial hair growth, and height and weight issues...
Should the Half Orc be restricted to Fae Races...Half-Elf/Half-Orc (Midden Elf) and Half-Elf/Half-Troll (Bog Elf)?
They dont go round refering to them as Half-Orcs...
"Psst!" Searo the Farmer nudged his companion.
Kalvo looked up. It was a Half-Orc that caught Searo's attention.
"Rapeborn!"
It is a widely accepted fact that people do want to procreate. Call it a biological clock, call it whatever, but eventually, most people do want children... or perhaps we'd better call it spreading their genes.
So... people do want to spread their genes. Not a hard fact to accept, right?
Now, we do know that rape has been a fact in every human society we know anything about, and that people came down like a ton of bricks on it in the typical case. Rape has always been cause for ostracism and expulsion, sometimes death penalties.
So... rape is not something most people use to procreate, because it costs way too much. However, if you either have nothing (status, whatever) to lose, or if you are in a place where said ton of bricks will not catch up with you (such as fighting a war in a foreign land), using rape for spreading one's genes might not look like such a bad concept to certain people.
We also know that people get murdered for ten bucks. So, if people are obviously prepared to commit the most heinous crimes to get even minimal rewards, why is it impossible to accept that yes, some people will use force to get sex and a chance to spread their genes?
People burp up "rape is not about sex, it's about power" without ever questioning it. As stated, it is not an uncontroversial statement in science today. Please, people, keep the ideologically motivated burpings out of discussions of half-orcs, ok?
In general, I have to come in on the side of keep the color text as is. Since pathfinder orcs do not differ from the basic type found in the monster manual it is likely true at least 95% of the time that a half-orc is the result of rape..with another 4% who are second generattion of later half orcs. Maybe 1%, probably less are the result of a lving relationship between an orc and a human and most likely both parents are actively evil.
If the default pathfinder orcs were closer to Eberron orcs or Faerun's Gray Orcs i would take exception with the text, but for default orcs i dont.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
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The Middenborn
middenelf
(halfelf/halforc)
FORT+1 REF+0 WILL+0
STR 12, DEX 11, CON 9,
INT 10, WIS 9, CHA 9
Height 5'-6',
Almost human except for the ash coloured skin and hair, enlarged pointy ears and deformed lower jaw (with sideways protruding lower canines).
bogelf
(halfelf/halftroll)
FORT+5 REF+2 WILL+1
STR 17, DEX 13, CON 16,
INT 9, WIS 10, CHA 8
Height 7'-8', claw 1d4+1
With the appearance of a giant elf with leathery ash coloured skin, curly bronze hair, and clawed hands. Perhaps they are the superior of all the bastard breeds.
plagueelf
(halfelf/halfhuman)
Because of the threat these pose to elvenkind (they serve as a conduit for the transfer of human diseases to elves), they are most often abandoned.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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People burp up "rape is not about sex, it's about power" without ever questioning it. As stated, it is not an uncontroversial statement in science today. Please, people, keep the ideologically motivated burpings out of discussions of half-orcs, ok?
This bothers me. The assumption that because there are obvious ideological dimensions to a claim (as opposed to the less obvious, e.g., naturalized, essentialized, and hegemonic ideological dimensions to the counter-claim) does not make that claim an unexamined burping. In fact, what I see more and more of these days is a willingness to dismiss arguments out of hand as ideological because they are made by feminists or pro-feminists.
To say that rape is about power has ideological dimensions. It is also true, perhaps tautologically so. By definition, rape is a crime in which power is used or abused. To say that it is not about 'desire' is more tenuous. It may be about a desire for power or a violent desire. It may be connected to sexual desires. It is not, however, the sexual desire that is the crime. It is the abuse of power.
When a feminist says it is 'not about desire' or 'not about love', they are attempting to deromanticize rape. In literature and history, rape has at times been romancticized as a crime of passion, de-emphasizing the systemic, repeated, and violent consequences of the crime.
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Terren, I think you are making very good points in this thread. Yet I felt bad your link to Dictionary dot com had the first definition of rape specify women as primary victims. This is most likely true, but if we as a society are willing to talk about rape in terms of structures of power rather than focusing on the gender of the victim, it opens up our dialogue to discuss even more "taboo" subjects s/a prison rape and gay-bashing, and further de-mystifies those acts of violence. I agree with your argument, but just wanted to point out how your link's list of definitions still "ghettoizes" rape as a "woman's problem" first.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Terren, I think you are making very good points in this thread. Yet I felt bad your link to Dictionary dot com had the first definition of rape specify women as primary victims. This is most likely true, but if we as a society are willing to talk about rape in terms of structures of power rather than focusing on the gender of the victim, it opens up our dialogue to discuss even more "taboo" subjects s/a prison rape and gay-bashing, and further de-mystifies those acts of violence. I agree with your argument, but just wanted to point out how your link's list of definitions still "ghettoizes" rape as a "woman's problem" first.
Fair enough. Thanks for pointing that out. The first definition did specify women (as an online dictionary it could be changed so there is some possibility there). The second definition and the American Heritage dictionary below that allowed for rape as a crime against men.