Error with Arcane School Powers DC? (Pg 46)


Combat & Magic

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

First thing I noticed while reading the Arcane Schools was that the DC for the Spells you get were 10 + the spells level + the caster's Charisma modifier. Huh?... This has got to be an error.. Why would a Wizards power be based on Charisma and not Intelligence?

I am thinking this is a misprint. If it is not, why?

If this has been addressed already I apologize *I looked did not find it*

Paizo Employee Director of Games

Dragnmoon wrote:

First thing I noticed while reading the Arcane Schools was that the DC for the Spells you get were 10 + the spells level + the caster's Charisma modifier. Huh?... This has got to be an error.. Why would a Wizards power be based on Charisma and not Intelligence?

I am thinking this is a misprint. If it is not, why?

If this has been addressed already I apologize *I looked did not find it*

Nope. This one was intentional. First, we wanted to spread out Wizards a bit so that they care about a stat other than Int. Second, many of these powers are Spell-like abilities, which are frequently based off Charisma as a representative of the character's Force of Will.

Hope that helps.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Dark Archive

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Second, many of these powers are Spell-like abilities, which are frequently based off Charisma as a representative of the character's Force of Will.

Isn't charisma a representative of that character's force of personality? Will seems to fit better with wisdom (since it does determine your "will save" and all).

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Nah... all spell-like abilities use Charisma to set the DC.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:


Nope. This one was intentional. First, we wanted to spread out Wizards a bit so that they care about a stat other than Int. Second, many of these powers are Spell-like abilities, which are frequently based off Charisma as a representative of the character's Force of Will.

Hope that helps.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Though I understand the Spell like ability reason..

Wizards do not need another stat to worry about other then Int. They already do.

Dexterity for AC *Lack of armor means they needs this*, and reflex saves, and if they want to hit anything with a Ray they will need to something in Dex.

Constitution for HPs and Fort, they have a low enough HPs already, with out something in Con they are even worse..

Making them put something in Chr now just hurts the Wizard IMO, and not only that, a lot will just take schools that have less powers that require saving throws so they don't have to worry about Chr.


I hope there are other things introduced to kill min/maxing.

The Exchange

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Nope. This one was intentional. First, we wanted to spread out Wizards a bit so that they care about a stat other than Int. Second, many of these powers are Spell-like abilities, which are frequently based off Charisma as a representative of the character's Force of Will.

Hope that helps.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

I still don't agree with the idea of that (in the same way I don't actually agree with the granting of spell-like abilities, but that is in another thread). A wizard's power should be based off his INT - it always has been in the past. Forcing a wizard to boost his CHA too is another reason why the spell-like abilities feel sorcerer-y - I just don't like the flavour of this, it flies in the face of what wizards have been about in 3E (and prior to then too).


I kind of like this idea, because it reinforces how I saw them, as sort of by products of the specialist knowing how to manipulate his "school energy" instead of actually casting a spell.


yay thats how I saw it too its not a spell but they know how to manipulate magic energy to produce the effect.


If the Wizard is gaining those special abilities through study and knowledge of how Magic works... then it's not an innate talent (like sorcerers) and should be based off Int.

Besides... It can be hard enough to get an Int score high enough to have a save DC that is actually tough for monsters to make... it seems to me the only way one of those special abilities will actually work in a very few circumstances (where the target fails or comes very close to failing its save).

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