Ya, that's right. I'm starting a new thread because I'm too lazy to read 1600+ posts that seem to be mostly flames about flames and jokes about thread size.
I didn't think there were huge problems with 3.5, but I did find playing outside of the level sweet spot a bit annoying, and hated running out of things to do in combat. I'm glad that they are addressing these issues in 4E. I also really like the idea of healing surges so that all characters can take some measures to ensure they're own survival, allowing the cleric to occasionally use other abilities.
I'm not interested in D&D Insider or the Game Table. The latter seems ambitious but will probably find it's niche eventually. And, like many others, I'm worried about the cost of yearly PHBs, rotating campaign settings, and subscription fees. I will not buy everything. Hardly.
Yes, stuff you buy now will eventually be obsolete and WotC will continue to try to find new ways to get money from you. They are a company and we are their customers. What else are they going to do besides try to make new products that they think we'll want to buy? Is that so bad? You can pick up a 1st Edition boxed set and play D&D forever if you want to.
So, why should Paizo switch? Well, there's lots of 3.5 material available right now. I think there are five adventure paths. Has anyone actually played all five? I'm playing in one, running one, and lurking in another. And I still haven't looked at Savage Tide or the Curse. But when 4E comes out, I will be itching to start a new 4E campaign. I'm hoping Paizo will step up to the plate with a suitable adventure path. I'm not a Pathfinder subscriber, but I would definitely purchase and run the first Foruth Edition AP.
And hey, if 4E sucks, Paizo can always go back to 3.5 after a year. But let's face it. 4E is not going to suck. And most people will eventually make the transition. You might not like every single change or the WotC marketing strategy, but it will be a fun game. It's not a CCG or WoW. Those comparisons don't make sense at all. You can role-play an elf and fight a bunch of orcs by rolling d20s. It is a table-top RPG. And it is D&D. Square fireballs and starting hit points will not change the flavor of the game.
There is a need for 4E adventures and adventure paths. Paizo should hop on the WotC bandwagon and produce material to satisfy that need, rather than focusing on supporting a fading game system and adding to an already saturated 3.5 market.
That's my opinion and I welcome all others. I'm against censorship, don't care about board etiquette, and am willing to be proven wrong on any points. I also think that anyone who complains about a lack of WotC support for Linux hilarious. So please talk about that :)
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Yes switch so I can save more money for mods on my car.
Seriously though I'm glad you feel the way you do but this topic has reached supersaturation. Let me clue you in. Nobody is listening anymore.
People have picked their camp, nobody is going to be swayed one way or another. It's gotten so bad that lately people just talk about the people posting rather then what they're saying. I'm pretty sure that at this point neither Paizo nor WoTC will be swayed from their course of action no matter how much you guys jump up and down and scream. But hey if it passes the time until the GSL and the books are released feel free.
I disagree with the OP.
:)
So you have made a point of why not to stick with 3.5. Ok, but why does that mean they should go with 4th edition, an untried, unproven system. Why not switch to some other system out there? From some of the folks that have played various systems, much of the things 4th edition is suppose to have has already been seen in other systems. Why take the knock-off when you could go to the original system? Hey you could even get a free Exalted 2 book by trading in your 3.5 PH. That seems like a good trade if one hates 3.5 so much.
http://secure1.white-wolf.com/graduateyourgame/
But let's face it. 4E is not going to suck.
I dissagree. Theres a pretty darn good chance it will. From what I've seen to date it sure seems that way.
Let the Dead Horse beating commence:
4th edition seems not so great to me and also to alot of other 3rd edition fans. Though I have no crystal ball nor am I an oracle, I think 4th edition will split the D&D playing community in two.
It may not be a 50/50 split..but it will be signifacant enough where, from a corperate perspective, 4th edition will be a failure. Instead of bringing in lots of new players it will push more away than it will pull in.
4th edition may be around for a year or two..but Hasbro or Wizards of the Coast may pull the plug and D&D will go the way of Dragondice, Heckatomb and Dreamblade.
If Paizo switches to 4th edition they could be abandoning a perfectly good ship to climb aboard a sinking one.
If they stay 3.5 they will pretty much be one of the only sources of 3.5 material. Depending on how many D&Ders stay with 3.5 this may be a prety successful nitch corner of the market to take advantage of.
Take what I say with a grain of salt...Like I said I have no powers of divination.
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I think this thread may be viewed after Paizo gets the GSL and says "OK, NOW we need to make a decision, let's go to the messageboards again."
The only problem is that could be sometime in 2009. I figured by now Paizo would be in a position to make a decision, but they can't. When they do, however, I am hoping the good points made elsewhere on these baords convince them 3.5 is worth sticking with.
-DM Jeff
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And hey, if 4E sucks, Paizo can always go back to 3.5 after a year. But let's face it. 4E is not going to suck.
That, as with almost everything created by man, lies in the eye of the beholder. If the game does not suck for a large enough community to support 4th Books from WoC and Paizo. 4th edition does indeed not suck businesswise.
And most people will eventually make the transition.
This statement is repeated over and over and crowds a lot of threads. To state what was stated often before: compared to 1st and 2nd edition 3.5 has solid enough mechanics. You can not compare the switch form 2nd to 3rd with the swicth from 3rd to 4th. So a lot of people who state that they will not switch over might really not switch over.
You might not like every single change or the WotC marketing strategy, but it will be a fun game.
As in your first point "fun" is defiend by the individual gamer. So 4th might be fun for you and a lot of other gamers but not for other gamers.
It's not a CCG or WoW. Those comparisons don't make sense at all.
There are a lot of good and informative threads out there who do comparisons on the game or only aspects thereof. Most are speculative and done with the knowledge freely available on the boards. One thread, I can not remember where I read it, made a comaprison between CCg and 4th and it sounded very good. Mind you, the poster had not much more knowledge of the rules than me. But to me it made sense.
You can role-play an elf and fight a bunch of orcs by rolling d20s. It is a table-top RPG. And it is D&D. Square fireballs and starting hit points will not change the flavor of the game.
Mechanics flavor the flavor. It is easier to play in the Warhammer world with the Warhammer FRP engine than with amber diceless. Or play a grim and gritty Conan Style cmapaign with Exalted. All possible but the mechanics might not be ideally suited to the flavor.
And so I believe, that 4th edition will favor the cinematic and gamist style of play compared to the grim and gritty simulationist style of play. So 4th will still have the D&D name but it MIGHT (and this is a might because I do not know all the rules yet) be a different expereince playing it than 3rd edition.
You might not like every single change or the WotC marketing strategy, but it will be a fun game.As in your first point "fun" is defiend by the individual gamer. So 4th might be fun for you and a lot of other gamers but not for other gamers.
I might also point out a game system might be fun, but not be the same type of experience as something else. I have fun playing Lord of the Rings Trivial Pursuit, but it is no substitute for D&D. It is a different game style. Likewise, I have fun playing my old HeroQuest, but again, it is not D&D. Will the fun of 4th be the same type of fun (but better) as 3rd edition. Who knows? But being fun isn't enough.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Hello, Jonventus.
You make one excellent point. 4th Edition is going to need a kick-butt Adventure Path.
I am myself not planning on switching. I myself don't intend to buy anything for 4th Edition. So, I'm disadvantaging myself for saying this:
If Paizo switched to 4th Edition, it would probably be better for the health of the industry.
If Paizo switched to 4th Edition, it would probably be better for the health of the industry.
However, with roughly 56% of their customers saying they aren't switching (and an additional 18% undecided), it may not be better for the health of Paizo.
I very, very strongly feel that this thread should be 20 pages long.
So, why should Paizo switch? Well, there's lots of 3.5 material available right now. I think there are five adventure paths. Has anyone actually played all five? I'm playing in one, running one, and lurking in another. And I still haven't looked at Savage Tide or the Curse. But when 4E comes out, I will be itching to start a new 4E campaign. I'm hoping Paizo will step up to the plate with a suitable adventure path. I'm not a Pathfinder subscriber, but I would definitely purchase and run the first Foruth Edition AP.
I'm not going to get into a 3.5 v 4e slogfest, but I do want to point out that the Paizo folks have repeatedly said that they are quickly reaching the point where the Second Darkness AP will have to be 3.5 just because they still haven't seen the GSL or 4e rules. Simply put, production time requires them to make a decision soon.
I very, very strongly feel that this thread should be 20 pages long.
Give it a couple of hours.
If Paizo switched to 4th Edition, it would probably be better for the health of the industry.However, with roughly 56% of their customers saying they aren't switching (and an additional 18% undecided), it may not be better for the health of Paizo.
And, of course, by continuing to stay with 4E, Paizo leashes itself to the whim of WotC. By striking out with their own game (even if it's essentially a 3.5 reprint), they put themselves in control.
They can then release their own "new edition" over time and no longer rely on another company to dictate their product schedule.
Heck, at this point, maybe the best thing is for Paizo to promote Necromancer Games as their 4E line and keep their own stuff as 3.5.
Everybody wins!!!!
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I very, very strongly feel that this thread should be 20 pages long...
...And still fail to actually resolve anything.
My gut feel is that Paizo will convert to 4e, mainly because there will be a commercial imperative to do so. But I say that while having no idea of the ruleset and the details of the GSL, so I really don't know. Paizo don't know. In fact, no one knows. These threads are really just an exercise in futility until these issues are resolved.
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Assuming that this number is derived from the messageboard posts, keep in mind that the replies to that thread are a self-selected sample, and are not necessarily indicative of the entire customer base. I'd be shocked if even 10% of Paizo's customers have even visited the boards, let alone answered one specific thread.
But considering that Paizo cannot contact all of their customers (both regular and irregular) and compel an answer to these questions, this is about the only information they can get. Dismissing this data would logically require dismissal of all such polls on other forums, resulting in the companies involved making blind guesses as to market trends and demands.
Are thread polls 100% accurate, by no means. But when you have no other information to go by, inaccurate information can be better than no informaation (depending on how inacurrate).
I strongly feel that Paizo should NOT switch to 4th edition. For me, there are a number of issues with 4.0 that I just don't like. You can read about them in other threads. Has Wizards, for me, ethically lost the right to call the game Dungeons and Dragons? Absolutely!
My main reasons are largely ethical. Revising the OGL into a GSL and then realizing that they need more time to work on it tells me that Wizards dropped the ball in the operations department.
I'm concerned that Paizo won't be able to tell the stories it likes to in a Good/Evil/Unaligned World.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing that Paizo is capitalizing on a customer base that Wizards is rejecting. If I had my absolute choice of what to do, and limitless capital, I would publish things in both rules systems.
But most importantly, at least psychologically, I'm frustrated by the idea that 4th edition breaks the core concepts of Golarion, and all the wonderful stuff Paizo has done with it over the past year. Are they going to be forced to create a new world again? That would be very aggravating, and unsatisfying. I still want to know what the Land of the Linnorm Kings looks like, and how merchant houses function. The magic of Golarion, as well as Dragons, completely break.
That being said, if Paizo does create a new world for 4th edition, what happens to Golarion? If it gets put on the shelf, there's still enough gaming material to play it until 5th edition comes out, if Wizards hasn't screwed the pooch with 4th edition.
What's best for the industry? In my opinion, OGL is best for the industry. I actually find it offensive that Wizards is setting up a D+D review board to determine what is and isn't D+D according to the GSL, and that the stories that you may be allowed to tell in published products will be limited by the Sorcerers of the Fjords or whatever they're calling themselves this week.
I didn't think there were huge problems with 3.5, but I did find playing outside of the level sweet spot a bit annoying, and hated running out of things to do in combat. I'm glad that they are addressing these issues in 4E. I also really like the idea of healing surges so that all characters can take some measures to ensure they're own survival, allowing the cleric to occasionally use other abilities.
Really? Did 3.5 get rid of healing potions and wands that cured wounds? Please, Any character can heal themselves. What this has done is turn every character into Wolverine, who can take a pounding and then pop up in a round or two perfectly fine. It really is ridiculus.
So, why should Paizo switch? Well, there's lots of 3.5 material available right now. I think there are five adventure paths. Has anyone actually played all five? I'm playing in one, running one, and lurking in another. And I still haven't looked at Savage Tide or the Curse. But when 4E comes out, I will be itching to start a new 4E campaign. I'm hoping Paizo will step up to the plate with a suitable adventure path. I'm not a Pathfinder subscriber, but I would definitely purchase and run the first Foruth Edition AP.
My wife ran Shackled city (And finished it.) I ran Savage Tide (And finished it.) She is running Age of Worms (We are just past the half way point.) And I am running Rise of the Runelords (And have just started part three). No, wh haven't run part five yet given that Curse of the Crimson Throne part one just arived in the mail yesterday. As far as 4E Adventure Paths? From what I here WotC is going to be running their own version. Given the few modules from WOtC that I've run, so far what I've seen has been crap that I've had to scrap and completly rewrite to make it useful (Anoruch Empire of the Shade comes to mind). SO I can see you wanting Paizo to continue supplying your Modules. But don't start with the assumption that on one could possibly have gone through four (I say four because when only the first module has barely been released, it doesn't count as a Full AP.)Adventure Paths. Sorry you don't get to play as much as we do.
And hey, if 4E sucks, Paizo can always go back to 3.5 after a year. But let's face it. 4E is not going to suck. And most people will eventually make the transition. You might not like every single change or the WotC marketing strategy, but it will be a fun game.
If 4E suck, WotC will come out with 4.5 in a year or two. They won't go backwards, That market is all tapped out. As far as 4E not sucking? That remains to be seen. And as far as everyone eventually making the transition? I doubt that too.
Square fireballs and starting hit points will not change the flavor of the game.
No, but Points of Light, Elemental Chaos, Jacking Forgotten Realms and making every character a clone of the one next to it will change the flavor. And it's leaving a bad taste in alot of peoples mouths.
Paizo should hop on the WotC bandwagon and produce material to satisfy that need, rather than focusing on supporting a fading game system and adding to an already saturated 3.5 market.
A Game system fades only when it stops being supported. Paizo needs to do what is best for Paizo, not WotC. Because WotC is damn sure doing what it thinks is best for itself and hasn't flinched about leaving other companies hanging waiting for the GSL. I have no intention on jumping on a band wagon that looks like it's getting ready to go over a cliff. I think that if WotC wanted Paizo to produce APs for them then they should have left Dungeon and Dragon Magazines alone. Then Paizo wouldn't have had a choice but to follow. But now they do. ANd so do the rest of us.
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Ya, that's right. I'm starting a new thread because I'm too lazy to read 1600+ posts that seem to be mostly flames about flames and jokes about thread size.
This thread is too short.
However, with roughly 56% of their customers saying they aren't switching (and an additional 18% undecided), it may not be better for the health of Paizo.
A not insignificant portion of both those saying they're switching and those saying they aren't switching say they'll buy Pathfinder regardless of edition, so that takes a little bit of sting of either decision away. Assuming you believe them.
Paizo's problem is obvious: if 4e is a wild success they'll be stuck with a small and dwindling market if they don't switch. If it's a flop, they'll be stuck with a nonexistent market if they do. If the community splinters, either decision is going to lose a significant portion of their customer base, and I'm not sure their profit margin is such that Paizo can survive on half the subscription base.
Add in factors like 4e is likely to sell very well at first, as people look for supplements to the base 4e system in an uncluttered market and Wizards foots the bill for a large marketing push. Also the possibility that people dissatisfied with 4e switch to True20 or go back to 2e or quit playing altogether. And the GSL is currently an unknown quantity, which means it could be so restrictive as to be unworkable.
Frankly, I think the only real option for Paizo in the long run is to switch to 4e: if it succeeds it's the right decision, and if it fails I think the RPG market is going to fragment so much that there just isn't going to be a business model for the kinds of products Paizo makes. Given the obvious, that Paizo's decision is going to influence the decision to switch of a number of gamers, they can help it succeed or fail. And it's better for the market as a whole if it succeeds.
But then, I'm sure Paizo has thought about all of this, and they're actually sitting with the subscription numbers and production budget to know more about it than any of us. Which means, they'll make a better informed decision than any of us are capable of.
I feel that paizo can make their own g*~-d#~n decision. They aren't seven years old and proclaiming your view the loudest sure isn't going to make them automatically think your right.
I grow very tired of these "Lets use titles for threads that proclaim how someone else should make their decision".
You want a "Why I am Switching to 4E" thread? Go right ahead.
But for the love of all that is arcane can we stop proclaiming what other people should do? Especially when their possible paycheck could be riding on it? They will decide on their own like good girls and boys. You want to influence that? Then state how you, their customer, are planning to go with both your edition and the types of materials you wish to buy for it.
Edit: I started writing before CNB's post above which I agree with.
As a person who is switching to 4E as soon as it comes out, I'm still hoping Paizo converts to 4E eventually.
HOWEVER - I've reached the point where I can support Paizo 100% if they decide not to worry about 4E during the "pay $$$, publish before 2009" phase.
I'd much rather continue to buy well-written 3.5-compatible adventures and convert them myself (with the assistance of others on these boards) than have Paizo rush to market with an attempt to make Second Darkness work under the new rules.
If Paizo ever gets the new rules (or the option to look at them), it's their decision to make. And if they're confortable buying in to 4E and producing 4E products during that timeframe, I'd be delighted. But if they're already past the point where they can master the new rules sufficiently and publish something they're happy with, then I'd rather they wait, even if it means they not "buy" early access to the rules.
I very, very strongly feel that this thread should be 20 pages long.
Heh. Good response!
People have picked their camp, nobody is going to be swayed one way or another.
Mostly, but not totally. I've been planning on playing 4e, but am slowly trending away from it due to GSL concerns. I think there are probably others who also are still on the fence, too.
Good stuff
Wow CNB. Really well said. I'm impressed.
And QFT.
I also wonder how many people would fall into a larger ignored group. Those being people that plan to play both 3rd and 4th edition. In this case it is not so much as an "upgrade" but as playing a different system at different times. In that case those groups are still going to probably look for 3rd edition products, as well as looking for 4th edition products. Frankly, I think the best thing for Paizo to do is to produce products for both, of course that depends on if they will even be allowed to.
If Paizo switched to 4th Edition, it would probably be better for the health of the industry.
And that's an interesting thought. 4e, it would appear, is by no means a guaranteed success. So Paizo would be put in the wonderful position of actually helping WotC push 4e after the magazines were pulled out from under them and WotC has already fumbled the ball with helping them develop 4e products. It's funny really. WotC could use help guaranteeing the success of 4e as a commercial product, yet they want to charge other companies to even look at the rules so they can make a proper decision.
No they shoudln't. I would respond to your claims, but I can't be bothered to read it all. So I call it all wrong in general and say that the best thing for them to do is to stick to 3.5.
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To those who see Paizo going 4E as the only option:
Paizo has been extremely open and honest about why they are waiting. As they have said several times in several blogs, posts, and news releases;
Due to the unknown content of the new gaming license, Paizo may not be able to produce the types of products it wants to under 4E rules. (paraphrasing)
I think it is pretty clear that going 4E is still an uncertainty.
If Paizo switched to 4th Edition, it would probably be better for the health of the industry.However, with roughly 56% of their customers saying they aren't switching (and an additional 18% undecided), it may not be better for the health of Paizo.
You mean with roughly 56% of thier customers who read the messages boards AND who bothered to answer saying they aren't switching. And that is if you ignore the fact that consumers are notoriously bad at predicting their own behavior in the near term, let alone SEVERAL YEARS in advance.
In the meantime, I hope Paizo puts their decision into historical context by looking at what happened last time. And the time before. And the time before.
Note: This assumes the GSL isn't foolishly short-sighted. If it is then of course Paizo may not go. I hope WOTC is smarter than that...
P.S. Before anyone responds to this post and says I'm calling people liars: I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that deciding now what you are or are not going to be doing in several years is highly suspect at best. I'm going to try 4E, and I *expect* I'm going to end up switching, but I MIGHT CHANGE MY MIND when I see the rules.
No they shoudln't. I would respond to your claims, but I can't be bothered to read it all. So I call it all wrong in general and say that the best thing for them to do is to stick to 3.5.
Wrong.*
*how is that for arbitrary? :D
Frankly, I'm at the point now where I don't care anymore. I've said my peace. If they go 4E, I buy some planet stories off them and I cancel my subscription with the end of CotCT. If they stick with their own system based on 3.5 (or anything else for that matter), I stick with them. Beyond that, I don't care anymore.
To those who see Paizo going 4E as the only option:
Paizo has been extremely open and honest about why they are waiting. As they have said several times in several blogs, posts, and news releases;
Due to the unknown content of the new gaming license, Paizo may not be able to produce the types of products it wants to under 4E rules. (paraphrasing)
I think it is pretty clear that going 4E is still an uncertainty.
You're assuming that what Paizo decides to do and what is ultimately best for Paizo long term are the same thing. If only it were that simple.
To be fair, statements like "paizo has no choice but to go 4E" aren't very clear; did the writer mean Paizo is absolutely going to go 4E, or that not going 4E would ultimately be a mistake?
Finally, a 3.5e vs. 4e thread! Hooray.
The truth of the matter is that, sometime around Day 2 of GenCon Indy 2008, 3.5e and 4e will destroy each other in a massive matter/antimatter detonation that will cost millions of lives and leave our world greatly retconned.
The future core of gaming lies in DragonDice and Spellfire cards. Those who possess the rare and powerful Pop-o-Matic technology will dominate the landscape as lords of warring fiefdoms.
I gotta agree with the op.
Why? Because I want to try out 4e and I want a really great adventure path to try it out with so as to not waste my very limited playing time on some crummy dungeon crawls.
It is entirely selfish, which as it happens is how I make all my major spending decisions.
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The boards hiccupped and ate a longish post while I was writing it. I decided to come back a bit later to say what I tried to say.
First of all, the title is a little misleading. A better title for the thread is 'why I hope Paizo will switch to 4th edition'. There appears to be nothing in the OP which indicates that they should. My interpretation is 'I am switching to 4th edition, I'd like to buy an AP for 4th, so please support my edition of the game because it will be fun.'
My response 'I am not switching editions, and I'd like to buy more APs for 3.5, so please support my edition of the game which I still think is fun.'
I do think other posters are right when they say that 'the industry' will benefit if Paizo goes 4th edition. Of course, this doesn't mean other third party publishers - depending on the OGL it may have no effect on them one way or another - but it definitely would help WotC. WotC wants as many people to play their edition of the game as possible. A large number of people (even relatively speaking) are going to hold out with whatever edition Paizo supports. The 3.5 community will be a large and vibrant community with Paizo's support. The community could continue to grow - it isn't a forgone conclusion that it will waste away. With support from a major publisher like Paizo, it likely would grow.
In any case, I don't care whether 4th edition succeeds or fails. I can see benefits to me personally and the hobby in general either way. But for equally selfish reasons as the OP, I want Paizo to stay 3.5. As for the reasons that they SHOULD - they are myriad and have been explained in various other threads so bringing them up here is unnecessary.
...sometime around Day 2 of GenCon Indy 2008, 3.5e and 4e will destroy each other in a massive matter/antimatter detonation that will cost millions of lives and leave our world greatly retconned.That's not good ... I was thinking about going. Maybe I'll rethink that.
How do you think I feel? I got a room in the reserved block!
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I very, very strongly feel that this thread should be 20 pages long......And still fail to actually resolve anything.
My gut feel is that Paizo will convert to 4e, mainly because there will be a commercial imperative to do so. But I say that while having no idea of the ruleset and the details of the GSL, so I really don't know. Paizo don't know. In fact, no one knows. These threads are really just an exercise in futility until these issues are resolved.
Don't trust your gut feeling. }: P
HOORAY!!!!
I think Paizo made a logical decision in going with 3.75 - it seems very likely it will have short term success and act as a great advertisement for the company.
Long term, I believe that at least 80% of D&D players will switch to 4e, but 20% of D&D's fanbase is more than enough to provide for an RPG company.
It may even supply enough money to the company for them to support both editions well, which will cost them money and focus, but provide them greater coverage.
Meantime, with the Pathfinder discount, even folks switching to 4E like myself have more than enough reason to stick with Paizo at least through the initial storm.
I like a lot of the ideas behind what I see in the pdf, even if I disagree with the underlying math behind some things... but I'm tired of the math of 3.x, so I'm not the target audience. I am curious how well they'll sell in August 2009... more than a year after 4E comes out, with everyone already having 3.x books.
Of course, in 10 years they might be selling reasonably to people who need replacement books.
Or have switched to 4E, with leisure, and retrospect, and ability to make an educated decision.
I wish them all the luck.
I'm still going to 4E, but how can I NOT go Pathfinder as well? I mean, come on!
The bad part is .... I guess I have to buy 3.5. >;-( Unless I can make enough out from the SRD, but I hate getting rules in online/pdf format. I much prefer them in book form so I can throw myself on the couch and read in peace.
EDIT: Ah, nevermind. I'll just use the SRD. I refuse to buy a 3.5 book, refuse!
The bad part is .... I guess I have to buy 3.5. >;-( Unless I can make enough out from the SRD, but I hate getting rules in online/pdf format. I much prefer them in book form so I can throw myself on the couch and read in peace.
You realize Pathfinder RPG will be a completely self-contained system when it's officially released, right? No need to buy any 3.5 books. In fact, they'll be out of print by then.
So you have made a point of why not to stick with 3.5. Ok, but why does that mean they should go with 4th edition, an untried, unproven system. Why not switch to some other system out there? From some of the folks that have played various systems, much of the things 4th edition is suppose to have has already been seen in other systems. Why take the knock-off when you could go to the original system? Hey you could even get a free Exalted 2 book by trading in your 3.5 PH. That seems like a good trade if one hates 3.5 so much.
I don't hate 3.5. I think it's great. But it's not perfect. And now that there will be an edition of D&D that addresses some of the things I don't like about 3.5, I'm looking forward to trying it.
I don't have any good reason for switching to 4E rather than some other non-d&d system. Name recognition I suppose. Expected supporting publications. Mostly, d&d is what my friends and I play. It would be a hard sell to get everyone to migrate to a new system, and how would we choose which one? Our default will definitely be to try 4E first and look for something else (even 3.5) if it does not meet expectations.
I would be willing to trade or sell my 3.5 books though, since you mention it.