Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Answers seem to come in two flavors:
1. I'll never convert, and if Paizo does convert, I'll cancel all my subscriptions, tell my friends Paizo eats doggy doo, and never ever buy anything from Paizo again, not even insulin for my diabetic mother if she were on her deathbed and Paizo was the only supplier.
2. I'll probably (not) convert, but I like Paizo products enough that I'll continue to purchase from them no matter what and support in other ways or, with great regret, cease purchasing their edition specific products.
And people wonder what the difference is between a hater and a reasonable skeptic...
wonder if this will stay true in june
I've actually thought it was fairly reasonable - I think there have only been a handful of posts declaring that if Paizo goes to 4th Edition, they will be canceling their Planet Stories subscriptions and/or no longer buying anything from the Paizo store. With great regret, of course.
Answers seem to come in two flavors:
1. I'll never convert, and if Paizo does convert, I'll cancel all my subscriptions, tell my friends Paizo eats doggy doo, and never ever buy anything from Paizo again, not even insulin for my diabetic mother if she were on her deathbed and Paizo was the only supplier.
2. I'll probably (not) convert, but I like Paizo products enough that I'll continue to purchase from them no matter what and support in other ways or, with great regret, cease purchasing their edition specific products.
And people wonder what the difference is between a hater and a reasonable skeptic...
And a few in the first group seemed to feel the need to say "and there are at least 200 other people I know who aren't switching." =P
Frankly I find the vehemence a little amusing, since I still think the majority will convert eventually.Anyone else wondering if the "gut check" thread was inspired by the receipt (or at least the expection of imminent receipt) of the GSL?
Speaking of noticing things, anyone keeping some sort of tally (aside from, I assume, Erik?)
I'd go and run a tally myself, but I'm lazy! =P
1. I'll never convert, and if Paizo does convert, I'll cancel all my subscriptions, tell my friends Paizo eats doggy doo, and never ever buy anything from Paizo again, not even insulin for my diabetic mother if she were on her deathbed and Paizo was the only supplier.
I must have missed those posts... But I did only skim.
EDIT:: It seems the boards are acting strange again. This thread is supposed to have 9 posts, and I can only see five. That might be what happened in the Gut Check thread and why I missed the doggy doo posts.
i will not convert and if paizo does i dont have a need for there 4e stuff. im sure there still get my money on something i wish em the best but i cant throw away money on stuff i have no use for
~smiles~ Yes. I noticed that. All I can say is no matter what, Paizo has always been worth my dollar. Either to use the whole module in a game, to pillage and plunder parts of it for something else, to use for ideas for later, or just for a good read. ~thinks~ Oftentimes for all the above. ~shrugs~ Oh well.
I'm number 2 (wait, that doesn't sound right...)!
I noticed three trends.....
1. No I won't convert
2. Yes I am.
3. A fair amount of "not at this time".
Eyeballing it, I would say the converts are slightly ahead especially if you give them the "not at this time" votes. As far as people being more stern about subscriptions I wouldn't hold it against them. Why would one continue a subscription to something where you need to change a lot of material to make it compatable. I don't get pathfinder because I think it would be to difficult to drop into Greyhawk. This doesn't mean I hate pathfinder. As far as the doggy doo thing, I didn't see any of that, but then there are a lot of posts to read so one could easily miss it. Either way people are expressing their opinion for what will probably be the last opportunity before Paizo makes a decision.
Answers seem to come in two flavors:
1. I'll never convert, and if Paizo does convert, I'll cancel all my subscriptions, tell my friends Paizo eats doggy doo, and never ever buy anything from Paizo again, not even insulin for my diabetic mother if she were on her deathbed and Paizo was the only supplier.
2. I'll probably (not) convert, but I like Paizo products enough that I'll continue to purchase from them no matter what and support in other ways or, with great regret, cease purchasing their edition specific products.
And people wonder what the difference is between a hater and a reasonable skeptic...
Well, I didn't see many of the former, but then I didn't have the patience to read the entire thread. The majority of folks on the first page seemed fairly reasonable. I'd like to think of myself in the later group (reasonable skeptic). In fact if Paizo does convert I'm just going to switch my subscription from Pathfinder to a Planet Stories subscription. I want to continue to support Paizo, even if they switch. There's not many companies out there that are as top notch and friendly as these folks, and I really hope that the "haters" realize this.
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Answers seem to come in two flavors:
1. I'll never convert, and if Paizo does convert, I'll cancel all my subscriptions, tell my friends Paizo eats doggy doo, and never ever buy anything from Paizo again, not even insulin for my diabetic mother if she were on her deathbed and Paizo was the only supplier.
2. I'll probably (not) convert, but I like Paizo products enough that I'll continue to purchase from them no matter what and support in other ways or, with great regret, cease purchasing their edition specific products.
And people wonder what the difference is between a hater and a reasonable skeptic...
You know just because one doesn't phrase their opinion in the best manner doesn't make it any less valid. I don't see the need to criticize. Erik did ask after all.
One thing to remember as well: Not all opinions have equal weight.
It looks pretty even to me among the following:
1: Not converting!
2: I go where Paizo goes*
3: Yes, I'm converting!
*Bah! Get a backbone and choose!
(I kid! I kid!)
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I glanced at the first few posts and they seemed to be either eager to or willing to convert. I guess I would have had to be more patient to find the unreasonable haters that compose the entirety of what Sebastian saw.
Cue someone spewing negativity complaining about 'haters' spewing negativity. 'Cause *that's* always fun for extra irony.
Between the people who will convert, the people who are thinking about converting, and the people who will buy Paizo products regardless of edition, I'm seeing a much more positive trend than I thought I would see. That's good for my self-interest, as I want quality 4e Paizo products.
Hey look what I found.....I wonder if it will stay this time or if the people conspiring against me will return.
I noticed three trends.....
1. No I won't convert
2. Yes I am.
3. A fair amount of "not at this time".
Eyeballing it, I would say the converts are slightly ahead especially if you give them the "not at this time" votes. As far as people being more stern about subscriptions I wouldn't hold it against them. Why would one continue a subscription to something where you need to change a lot of material to make it compatable. I don't get pathfinder because I think it would be to difficult to drop into Greyhawk. This doesn't mean I hate pathfinder. As far as the doggy doo thing, I didn't see any of that, but then there are a lot of posts to read so one could easily miss it. Either way people are expressing their opinion for what will probably be the last opportunity before Paizo makes a decision.
I'm number 2 (wait, that doesn't sound right...)!
WHO DO YOU WORK FOR?
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Hi Sebastian,
I do consider you as one of the "lords of the boards" here (you may not be the highest ranking lord, but I still think you deserve that title).
I know you have been a strong defender of the "I'll proudly and happily go 4E" trend.
I sit on the opposite, and I may have been "4E hater", I do not care anymore, since I know I won't convert but, hey, people do as they wish, ain't it right ?
I went through the WHOLE "gut check thread", and I'll try to be as honest as possible regarding the trend.
Remember that the general trend on Paizo's boards have been higher toward "sticking to 3.5" until the end of 2007.
I would say I have seen 5 different trends :
1) People who will stick to 3.5 and will cancel (most of / or all of) their subsription(s) if Paizo goes 4E : I'd say about 40%
2) People who will go 4E and will cancel (most of / or all of) their subsription(s) if Paizo sticks to 3.5 : I'd say about 32,5%
3) People who will lean toward 4E OR stick to 3.5 but will keep their subscription : I'd say about 12,5%
4) People who will wait the rules before deciding ; most of them intend to buy Paizo products : I'd say about 10%
5) People who will eventually change to 4E but are still playing an AP / PF adv path / GMM or Dungeon adventures and will not change until the beginning of 2009 (to mid/end-2010) : I'd say about 5%
Whatever the decision is for Paizo, I guess it will be a tough and cruel decision to make, and a good bunch of people will be disappointed.
I am rather disappointed that the WOTC marketing has been so poor until now, so as to create such a gap in the D&D RPG community.
IMHO, I consider that saying / writing : "Wouah, look what my PC can do now with 4E, I couldn't do that with 3.5 !" is a rather poor communication, since what makes a RPG great is that you can do ANYTHING.
It's just the chance of success that may be different...
Some say "the show must go on", but this "4E show" has been a big failure, IMHO.
I do wish to everybody : "Play well, have fun, after all, that is what is important and makes RPG so special !!".
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I noticed three trends.....
1. No I won't convert
2. Yes I am.
3. A fair amount of "not at this time".Eyeballing it, I would say the converts are slightly ahead especially if you give them the "not at this time" votes.
I just wrote a post about it.
I would say (trying to be as fair and honest as possible) that the :
"yes !, go 4E" + "not now, but before mid-2010" is slighty under the trend "not converting".
If I get time and have nothing better to do, I'll count the answers according to the 5 general trends I have seen...
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I've actually thought it was fairly reasonable - I think there have only been a handful of posts declaring that if Paizo goes to 4th Edition, they will be canceling their Planet Stories subscriptions and/or no longer buying anything from the Paizo store. With great regret, of course.
I think that reasonable people (like myself, of course) may make that claim. Personally, I'm not too interested in the Planet Stories subscription for the sake of the Planet Stories subscription. While it is nice that Paizo is 'recommending' books for me to read, I can read many similar stories (and the authors) having access to a large public library and a large university library. Which means I can read books for free, as often as I want. The reason I pay money for the books (besides the fact that I might enjoy them) is that I am happier to pay money to Paizo for a book than to Tor or Ballentine because Paizo is more than a book publishing company. They are producing the highest quality adventure modules and game aids for 3rd edition. They very well may be ushering in a golden age of gaming.
But, since I don't intend to play 4th edition, if they convert, the new golden age ends. They become just another book publisher, no longer my favorite gaming company.
While I hope they remain with 3rd edition, I do fear that they will convert. I'm sure they'll do 4th edition amazingly well if they do switch, but I have no reason to start playing 4th edition. I actually do like 3rd edition, and I do have enough stuff for a lifetime. But I do like supporting the hobby, and therefore I'm happy to keep buying if they're producing for the system that I like.
Now, I do think that I will switch to a new edition of D&D sometime in the future. I think that 4th edition is too early, so I'll wait to see what 5th edition offers. Of course, if Paizo is still doing 3rd edition at that time, if I'm not impressed by 5th I'll still be buying their products.
And people wonder what the difference is between a hater and a reasonable skeptic...
Isn't there room in there for someone who just doesn't want to invest in a new system after dumping hundreds of dollars into 3rd edition? What about people who are pleased with 3rd edition or feel that there is more to do in the system and just aren't compelled to change?
Seems like you are unnecessarily stirring the pot. This is a difficult time for Paizo to be sure, but posts like this don't help the situation at all.
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I would say I have seen 5 different trends :1) People who will stick to 3.5 and will cancel (most of / or all of) their subsription(s) if Paizo goes 4E : I'd say about 40%
2) People who will go 4E and will cancel (most of / or all of) their subsription(s) if Paizo sticks to 3.5 : I'd say about 32,5%
3) People who will lean toward 4E OR stick to 3.5 but will keep their subscription : I'd say about 12,5%
4) People who will wait the rules before deciding ; most of them intend to buy Paizo products : I'd say about 10%
5) People who will eventually change to 4E but are still playing an AP / PF adv path / GMM or Dungeon adventures and will not change until the beginning of 2009 (to mid/end-2010) : I'd say about 5%
Thanks for doing the counting.
There's a small problem with the numbers, though. They don't account for subscribers vs. non-subscribers. My guess is there will be more weight for people who are subscribers than not. One might buy something at a store every month, but paizo is getting all the money from the subscribers, not just a cut, and that does mean a lot to the bottom line. I haven't read all the responses... are there any that are "If Paizo goes 4e, I will start subscribing"?|
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Curious as to where you got those numbers.I would say I have seen 5 different trends :
1) People who will stick to 3.5 and will cancel (most of / or all of) their subsription(s) if Paizo goes 4E : I'd say about 40%
2) People who will go 4E and will cancel (most of / or all of) their subsription(s) if Paizo sticks to 3.5 : I'd say about 32,5%
3) People who will lean toward 4E OR stick to 3.5 but will keep their subscription : I'd say about 12,5%
4) People who will wait the rules before deciding ; most of them intend to buy Paizo products : I'd say about 10%
5) People who will eventually change to 4E but are still playing an AP / PF adv path / GMM or Dungeon adventures and will not change until the beginning of 2009 (to mid/end-2010) : I'd say about 5%
Checking through the whole thread.
This is why I wrote : "I'd say ABOUT"
I have not paid attention to who is / who is not a subscriber.
However, I am sure Paizo will also check : who buys often or not;
Before subscribing to GMM (january 2008), I bought ALL of them, about 6 or 7 were already published !!
There's a small problem with the numbers, though. They don't account for subscribers vs. non-subscribers. My guess is there will be more weight for people who are subscribers than not. One might buy something at a store every month, but paizo is getting all the money from the subscribers, not just a cut, and that does mean a lot to the bottom line. I haven't read all the responses... are there any that are "If Paizo goes 4e, I will start subscribing"?
There's also the chance that those (outside of these boards) who don't convert to 4th edition will become new Paizo customers, should Paizo continue to put out 3rd edition material.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Isn't there room in there for someone who just doesn't want to invest in a new system after dumping hundreds of dollars into 3rd edition? What about people who are pleased with 3rd edition or feel that there is more to do in the system and just aren't compelled to change?
Seems like you are unnecessarily stirring the pot. This is a difficult time for Paizo to be sure, but posts like this don't help the situation at all.
I think he files them (us?) under #2. It fits me.
For the record, I expect Paizo to go 4.x, unless the GSL is too restricting. I think part of the reason it's taken so long is that they do have the "Can't use GSL and OGL license" in there, and are woking on making it less offensive. WotC wants if not needs the support of third party publishers, from Paizo to Dreamscarred to Necromancer, and if they have a GSL that will (for example) prevent them from supporting true 20, or M&M or another d20 deviation, they risk losing that free support.
(Personally I never understood why WotC didn't make a 3.x Unearthed Arcana a yearly book, chock full of OGL monsters, spells, classes, and mechanics from 3rd party publishers. Heck if a 'pocket PHB' sold, what's sauce for the goose is good for the gander)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Thanks for doing the counting.
There's a small problem with the numbers, though. They don't account for subscribers vs. non-subscribers. My guess is there will be more weight for people who are subscribers than not. One might buy something at a store every month, but paizo is getting all the money from the subscribers, not just a cut, and that does mean a lot to the bottom line. I haven't read all the responses... are there any that are "If Paizo goes 4e, I will start subscribing"?
I beleive I've seen one or two posts to that effect.
I'm number 2 (wait, that doesn't sound right...)!WHO DO YOU WORK FOR?
Man, that was a wackily cool show. Nice catch!
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I am just curious to see how many people convert to 4 E after the material comes out. I am sure the people that didn't convert from 2 to 3 will convert to 4 but I think at least half of the "convert over my dead body" group will sooner or later. Things change and it would be really hard not to see those new books on the shelf and not look at them. And then once you look it isn't that much of a step to buy one and then look you converted.
(This is all based on the fact that WotC doesn't put out some terrible crap for 4E which I doubt they will, they are a company that wants to make money which is a big motivator to put out something people will buy.)
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I think he files them (us?) under #2. It fits me.
Generally, yes. If you're not posting a little snit fit in your post, you're in category 2. I doubt I will continue purchasing pathfinder if it stays 3e, but I've seen posts from people indicating that they won't even buy non-D&D products from Paizo if they convert. Such people are category 1.
This thread is fun! I even got the dead horse to show up on the first page!
