Print runs for APs

[XLordxErebusX]

I understand that Paizo is moving towards 2nd Edition and Starfinder, but can we get some Compiled Versions of APs or some reprints on APs for 1st edition? I worry that Paizo will basically forget about their APs and just do their soft cover version of core books.

Some of the AP books are going for hundreds of dollars for a single book online and I really dont want to spend 500-1000 dollars for a single AP. Sure, PDFs are a thing, but it makes it hard for me to run them, especially on my devices.

Just a loyal fan, hoping for paizo to hear my call for adventure. Surely I'm not the only one asking for this.

[Douglas Muir 406]

You're not the only one, but there aren't enough of you to make it a good deal for Paizo.

There have been two compilations -- the hardcover versions of the first two APs, "Rise of the Runelords" and "Curse of the Crimson Throne". That's all so far. There probably won't be any more until 2020 at the earliest, because Paizo will be very distracted by the rollout of 2.0 for the next two years. After that, perhaps they will do an update and compilation of some more older APs. Or perhaps not. Check back in a couple of years.

As for reprints, sorry! There will never be any reprints. Paizo only ever reprinted one volume of one AP, and they regretted it. Their policy now is to deliberately allow older APs to go out of print. -- Yes, you may not like that policy. But it has worked well for Paizo. Paizo is a business and they need to sell stuff. People rush to buy the older APs before they disappear, and then they subscribe to make sure they get the newer volumes. Win-win. Meanwhile, if you want older APs...

Suggestion #1: of the 20 APs, six or seven are still completely in print. Go buy Hell's Rebels or Ironfang Invasion or Strange Aeons. They're good APs! Heck, Second Darkness is still completely in print and last time I looked, it was on sale cheap -- $5/volume or $30 for the whole AP. Not everyone thinks Second Darkness is a good AP but, hey, thirty bucks.

Suggestion #2: if you absolutely MUST run Skull and Shackles or some other AP that's partially OOP, buy the .pdf, print it in a color printer (or pay a printer's shop to print it in color), and then either stick it in a binder or pay the printer's shop a bit more to bind it for you. Much cheaper than hundreds of dollars.

cheers,

Doug M.

[Path>Starfinder]

Anyone else having trouble with the store site? I go through the AP link, select an individual AP, it takes me back to the general Pathfinder store page.

[XLordxErebusX]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Suggestion #2: if you absolutely MUST run Skull and Shackles or some other AP that's partially OOP, buy the .pdf, print it in a color printer (or pay a printer's shop to print it in color), and then either stick it in a binder or pay the printer's shop a bit more to bind it for you. Much cheaper than hundreds of dollars.

cheers,

Doug M.

Its literally Skull and Shackles that i want, too.

Why not release them as a print option, on drive thru rpg or something?

[Joana]

Vic Wertz on why Paizo doesn't offer Print-on-Demand products:

Vic Wertz wrote:

First, as of yet, we haven't seen a print-on-demand solution that delivers the quality we're looking for. (They do get better every year, though, and I think that's just a matter of time.)

Second, we have a web store through which we sell tens of thousands of products, and we know that shipping costs are a big issue for our customers. If we outsourced our POD, we'd be unable to combine POD products with other products, and that's not great. (And we're not ready to invest in our own POD system—see the previous paragraph re: quality. Another company tried that recently, and... let's just say they're not doing it anymore.)

Finally, there's the notion of self-competition. If we give our customers too many similar products to buy, each of those products will sell fewer copies. Say a new player is looking to start playing an Adventure Path. If you have ten to choose from, odds are good that each one of those will garner about 10% of the new players. If you have five to choose from, each one will garner about 20%. Now, while our oldest APs are already profitable, our newest APs are just starting to contribute to the bottom line—if we don't get enough sales on the new ones to cover the costs, the line dies.

So the fact that our non-evergreen products do have a limited lifespan actually works for us in that respect. We need them to eventually get out of the way for the new guy, as it were.

As it happens, the graph of sales over time coincides pretty well with our needs, where:
A) the initial sales pretty much cover costs
B) ongoing sales provide a reasonable profit over a reasonable time
C) by the time a product is winding down, we have enough new products competing with it that having it go away is probably a good thing. (And if we don't want it to go away for some reason, we may figure out how to reinvent it, starting over at A.)

The issue has been brought up again several times since 2009, but each time Vic has said he is not yet satisfied enough with the quality to put the company's name on the finished product.

[Joana]

XLordxErebusX wrote:

Its literally Skull and Shackles that i want, too.

I don't know where you are, but in the US, Island of Empty Eyes is still available from Amazon, and Wormwood Mutiny and Tempest Rising are on eBay for less than $40 a book. Which, yeah, is overpriced, but not as ridiculous as the sellers on Amazon.

[Douglas Muir 406]

XLordxErebusX wrote:

Its literally Skull and Shackles that i want, too.

The first four are OOP, the last two are available at half price for $10 each. S&H on them should be about $8. The original price was $20 each. The .pdfs are $14 each.

1) Do what I suggested upthread, contact your local Kinkos/FedEx or other printer, and ask them what it would cost to turn a 96 page color pdf into 96 printed pages and bind it. Brief googling suggests that it should be about $0.60 / page for double sided color printing on good quality paper, and significantly less -- maybe $0.20 -- for black and white. So you can pay about $55 to get it nice in color, or about $18 if you're willing to live with black and white.

2) Do what Joana suggested and pick up the volumes on eBay. They seem to be around $40 including S+H.

Let's do a quick cost comparison.

Original AP list price -- $120
Original AP if you subscribed -- $102

Buy last two volumes, print four in color -- ~$248
Buy last two volumes, get other four on eBay -- ~$188
Buy last two volumes, print four in B&W -- ~$100
Buy last two volumes, suck it up and just get .pdfs of the other four -- $82

I absolutely agree that none of those four options are perfect or exactly what you want, but they are options and they don't actually suck. You have access to this content. It may not be exactly the way you want, but it's not like you're trying to score a mint copy of the AD&D Player's Handbook. There are also some tricks you can play to save a few dollars, like subscribing (10% off most Paizo products) or waiting for a sale (you just missed one, the next will probably be sometime this summer, 10% off again). Oh, and you could also try checking with your FLGS (I've seen copies of five year old modules at mine more than once) or just finding someone in your neighborhood who's been a Paizo subscriber for a while and asking if you can borrow or buy the print versions from them.

Good luck.

cheers,

Doug M.