Hello all,
I've pretty much decided that I'm not converting to 4.0, for multiple reasons which have been discussed elsewhere. So, I'm trying to decide what non-WotC books I should pick up.
I was hoping I could get some advice from all of you as to what books/supplements have been the most helpful to you, either as a player or DM/GM. I prefer a physical product, but am not completely against PDFs if that's the only way to get the info.
I already own pretty much every WotC 3.5 book that isn't setting specific, and thanks to the Green Ronin sale here, I picked up the three 'Advanced' titles.
Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide!
Later,
JTStorm
Well I seem to be in a similar state of mind like yourself but further along the line in acquiring non WoTC books.
Ones I'd recommend are as follows:
"Book of Fiends" (Green Ronin), this a great addition and fairly compatible with the Fiendish Codex series.
"The Avatar's Handbook" (Green Ronin)and "Anger of Angels" (Malhavoc Press), these 2 books should cover things for the good guys not covered by WoTC like in the Fiendish Codices, the former book being more the opposite equivalent of the "Book of Fiends".
"Tome of Horrors I, II and III", these 3 books should provide extra Monsters to go along with your Monster Manual collection; the former being of greater importance if you are interested in what happened to 1st and 2nd edition monsters that didn't make the cut for 3rd edition. Note that some of them did appear later officially by WoTC in later manuals or other official sources.
The following I cannot give a clear guidance on but I have ordered them since they were dirt cheap:
"Book of Iron Might, The"
"The Wurst of Grimtooth's Traps"
"The Book of Roguish Luck"
"Aasimar & Tiefling" (Green Ronin)
"Monsters of the Mind" (Green Ronin)
For something a little different I bought these books to get ideas from:
"Arcana Evolved" books
"Iron Heroes" books
and you have wisely bought the "Advanced" titles.
And finally a really great product is "The City of Brass" if you like to have really cool fluff on it. I like it because of the nostalgia from 1st ed days and no one until now decided do a proper write up on it.
Hope this helps in some way. I too would be interested to hear from others what they think is worthwhile picking up.
Cheers
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I strongly recommend these from Expeditious Retreat Press:
A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe
And, if you can find them, the Game of Thrones RPG and Monte Cook's Ptolus, which are both out of print.
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I'll throw in a recommendation of Tome of Horrors I, II, and III as well. Simply amazing books.
If you're a fan of monster manuals I'll also recommend the Creature Collections I, II, and III. They have some truly unique, if somewhat setting specific (nothing big, mind you, easily changed) beasties to throw up against a party.
If you're looking for spells I recommend Relics & Rituals I and II. Again they have some setting specific materials in them (notable the introductions and whatnot) but most, if not all, of the spells are setting neutral.
I was hoping I could get some advice from all of you as to what books/supplements have been the most helpful to you, either as a player or DM/GM. I prefer a physical product, but am not completely against PDFs if that's the only way to get the info.
Stuff that I bought that I use constantly:
Arcana Evolved (and supplements)
Tome of Horrors (already mentioned)
Eldritch Sorcery
Complete Book of Eldritch Might
Book of Hallowed Might
Chaositech
Book of Iron Might
Book of Roguish Luck
Requiem for a God (This is campaign specific, so I would only pick this up if you want to kill gods.)
Poisoncraft, from Blue Devil Games. (This may be out of print, so you'll have to buy as a pdf. It's excellent.)
Airships from Bastion Press.
Mechamancy from EN Publishing.
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3rd party stuff I love;
Arcana Unearthed (Malhavoc)
Kingdoms of Kalamar Players Guide (Kenzer & co)
Arcane Mysteries: Necromancer's Legacy (Mystic Eye Games)
Ghelspad Campaign Setting, Relics & Rituals 1 & 2, Creature Collection Revised, all five of the Players Guides to... (Sword & Sorcery / White Wolf)
Plot & Poison, Secret College of Necromancy, Arcana: Societies of Magic, most of the Freeport stuff, Hammer & Helm, Complete Psychic's Handbook, Advanced Player's Manual, Advanced Bestiary (Green Ronin)
I got the Magical Medieval Society thing after it was *raved* about on EN World and it's probably the most disappointing thing I've ever gotten from 3E. The Mongoose books had more useful stuff. I can't understand why it's so popular. I even bought multiple books from them, and they turned out to be the *exact same information.* I musta bought all the wrong books or something and ended up with updated versions of older products that I already had... 2e had a World Builder's supplement thingie that was about a billion times more useful to me.
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Anything Midnight. Seriously good stuff.
Wilderlands of High Fantasy.
Bard's Gate and City State of the Invincible Overlord. Awesome city books.
Races of Ansalon and Knights of Krynn. Both excellent books. RoA is what every race book needs to strive to be. Knightly orders has some good info to adapt to any game.
I'm desperately trying to finish up my MWP 3.5 Dragonlance books before they can't sell the books anymore myself. If you are any bit interested in Dragonlance these books have done a much better job of presenting the setting for gaming than has ever been done before, even sans mechanics.
I only recently started looking at the Midnight setting, but what I saw really blew me away. I'm not quite ready to commit to it given everything I have and that most of my campaigns are FR (and if they aren't FR, they would likely be Dragonlance or Pathfinder), but they are really, really tempting. Great setting.
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Midnight is worth the purchase of the core book for reading alone. I just really can't say enough good about this setting. I'm currently running a mini-campaign set there for C&C. Pretty cool stuff.
I have all the books for this system and love the world,but could not find enough adventures to run too many games.
I only recently started looking at the Midnight setting, but what I saw really blew me away. I'm not quite ready to commit to it given everything I have and that most of my campaigns are FR (and if they aren't FR, they would likely be Dragonlance or Pathfinder), but they are really, really tempting. Great setting.
Fantasy Flight recently had a sale on the books ($5 a pop, $10 for the main book) and they have firesales once or twice a year. Don't know if you keep up on their sales (I usually hear about them over at Boardgamegeek) but with the 3.X purge going on, you know they'll have another one in the next year.
Thanks for all of the great ideas everyone!
I guess I better start warming up the credit/debit cards...
There are some nice ideas here. I will have to check them out.
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I need help, too.
Since I don't have time to do the research on the web -- and certainly don't have time to browse an LGS inventory -- I'm hoping for a little info on these recommendations. If some owners could post, it'd be reallynice.
Tome of Horrors??
Are these Monster Manuals? If so, are the entries good on fluff, ecology, habitat/society stuff. That's what like; I care almost nothing for crunch.
Midnight
Okay, this is a campaign setting; what's the basic premise (setting style)?
Arcana Unearthed, Arcana Evolved
Well I have Unearthed Arcana which is WotC. What are these?
Book of Eldritch Might
Is this kinda like Complete Arcane, along with the others that sound like the "Complete" books (IronMight, Rogue's Luck, Eldritch Sorcery)?
Chaositec
What the hell is this?!
Monsters of the Mind
This just sounds cool. Lemme guess, a "Lords of Madness" kinda thing? Which monsters does it have?
Thanks bundles, guys!!
-W. E. Ray
Tome of Horrors??
Are these Monster Manuals? If so, are the entries good on fluff, ecology, habitat/society stuff. That's what like; I care almost nothing for crunch.
I only have the first, but they take a lot of 1st edition creatures and restat them for 3E. The other ones I don't know.
Arcana Unearthed, Arcana Evolved
Well I have Unearthed Arcana which is WotC. What are these?
Alternate PHB, IIRC. Don't have them, sorry!
Book of Eldritch Might
Is this kinda like Complete Arcane, along with the others that sound like the "Complete" books (IronMight, Rogue's Luck, Eldritch Sorcery)?
Kinda sorta - they present some interesting methods of looking at magic. Good ideas in there, from both a player and DM perspective.
Monsters of the Mind
This just sounds cool. Lemme guess, a "Lords of Madness" kinda thing? Which monsters does it have?
Not really. Lots of psionic monsters, ties into the Mindshadows book from Green Ronin. Includes some psionic slaadi and yuan-ti.
Midnight
Okay, this is a campaign setting; what's the basic premise (setting style)?
Midnight is dark fantasy. The best way I've found to describe it: Image Lord of the Rings (but with your other D&D fantasy races romping around with the dwarves and the elves). Sauron fighting against the Valar in the west. Now... imagine if Sauron won.
The whole idea is an evil dark god named Izrador was cast out of the planes of the gods to the realm of mortals. As he was cast out he shut the two planes off from each other, and over millennium of building up troops, and his own personal power (remaking and regaining what lost) and fighting the "goodly" races he finely conquered the human lands and have subjugated them. Doing this he split off the dwarves and the elves. He's seeking out magic, and enslaving all sentient life all to get more power... It's good fun!
If you like really bleak nihilistic settings (and I do), this is a must. The main rule book alone is worth having on your shelf, as others pointed out, it's a damned fun read. On top of that, there's some really cool stuff in the main rule book mechanic wise: bloodlines, channeling magic (very neat low magic spell mechanics), some different takes on the core classes (not everyone's cup of tea). If you can, get the campaign setting book.
Also, if you don't have them: Iron Kingdoms Character Guide, and the Monsternomicon Volume 1. Great setting, also fun reads. (This is steam punk meets ... horror... meets... well, it's hard to nail down).
I certainly wish you luck in your searches. I too am doing the same thing as far as 3.5 go. I'm gathering up what I can. I'll be checking this thread regularly... i hope... for suggestions.
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I can really recommend the Iron Kingdoms stuff from Privateer.
There are lots and lots of cool ideas in there. The IK are mostly a dark and grim Steampunk setting, but many of the stuff in the books can be used without any problems in traditional fantasy games.
Besides the world Guide (which is my favorite fluff book ever!) I can really recommend the following IK-books:
Monsternomicon I & II
These are monster books with really great creatures in it. Though designed for the IK, about 80% of the content could be dropped into any fantasy game without any changes.
The entries are presented in the form of a journal by a scholar/monster-hunter and contains very flavourful descriptions and nice adventurebooks.
The first one is a 'must have' in my opinion and the second is also very, very good.
The second has also details about a specific region in the IK which may not be very useful (but contains many interesting ideas). So it's 2/3 monsterbook and 1/3 setting book.
Five Fingers : Port Of Deceit
This one won an ENnie and it deserves it for sure! This is a scource book about a harbour-city in the IK, but it could be dropped into any fantasy campaign with only slight modifications.
This book is way better than Freeport, imho.
It has so many interesting locations, NPCs, adventure hooks, crime organisations, sinister cults, streetgangs, bands of pirates and on and on...
It is written very well and flavourful and fuels my imagination whenever I flip it open. This is a great, great book and I wouldn't want to miss it.
Besides these I second the comments about 'Complete Book Of Eldritch Might'. The 'Book Of Roguish Luck' is cool too, but not one of my favorites.
If you are into planes and PS stuff, then I recommend having a look at 'Beyond Countless Doorway' by Malhavoc, which introduces nearly a dozen variant planes to drop into the Great Wheel or any other cosmology. There are really cool planes in there and whenever I run an adventure set on the planes, I'm looking at BCD for inspiration. Tons of great fluff!
It seems that the community needs a collectors guide to 3.x.
Any volunteers?
This hypothetical guide should contain the following criteria: What type of product it is (rules, setting, adventure, mixed); HC book, SC book, box, other; standalone, additional; page count; production values (like art), availability (In print, OOP, if known, how many have been printed), price (new and used, ebay), usefulness, dependance on other products, if it is tied to a specific setting and how much work it would be to use it without the setting. And a rating system with easy access to the produtcs rated most useful (or whatever criteria are important for a user.)
Of course, these contents should be filled in by reviewers.
At the moment, we have the paizo product discussion for this, but this will be only available for products still in print, I guess. And I would imagine such a database to be searchable with criteria like usefulness. I know that these ratings would be highly subjective, but if enough reviewers participate, you can get an average.
Just as an idea.
Stefan
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What could help is if we got more product reviews and product discussion threads going. Tag a descrip to a discussion thread, and a couple people review each product. That way, information from a thread such as this doesn't disappear into the Archives of Necropoloss; it stays attached to a product entry.
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Contributor
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What could help is if we got more product reviews and product discussion threads going. Tag a descrip to a discussion thread, and a couple people review each product. That way, information from a thread such as this doesn't disappear into the Archives of Necropoloss; it stays attached to a product entry.
Yup, good idea. We need more reviews in general, so get on it, people! Every time you write a review, a kitten gets its wings.
Wait, no... um... you know what I mean.
I love almost all the Kalamar stuff, especially the Player's guide and Dangerous Denizens.
I also like Bad Axe Games Heroes of High Favor books, though they are not 100% balanced.
Kenzer doesn't get enough cred. I think for DMs, the Villain Design Handbook is a must.
People who like scoundrels (especially bard-flavored ones), and who already have Book of Roguish Luck and Complete Scoundrel, might be interested in Stealth and Style. It gives tips for producing Basiran dancers.
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Kenzer doesn't get enough cred. I think for DMs, the Villain Design Handbook is a must.
All their Kalamar products are very well put together. Their Villain Design Handbook did really help me in creating some good villains.
Their orc book, Fury in the Wastelands, is very good IMO. And to me, Kobolds will now always be unisex creatures (From their book on Gnomes and Kobolds).
I love almost all the Kalamar stuff, especially the Player's guide and Dangerous Denizens.
I also like Bad Axe Games Heroes of High Favor books, though they are not 100% balanced.
Kenzer doesn't get enough cred. I think for DMs, the Villain Design Handbook is a must.
I've been wanting to hunt down Kenzer's stuff. I have Dangerous Denizen and I love it. Some really cool monsters in there. The setting looks cool in general. Some what standard, but with a twist of lime... i like limes.
Speaking of Bad Axe Games, I have one book by them The Book of Unusual Treasures. Really cool stuff. No real magic items, but stuff to make the treasure hoards more interesting, there's also rules for unique spell components in the book that really put a flair in the game.
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I've been wanting to hunt down Kenzer's stuff. I have Dangerous Denizen and I love it. Some really cool monsters in there. The setting looks cool in general.
When the setting was released, I noticed people either loved it or hated it. Those of us who loved it saw within the campaign setting a very well thought out world with a little bit of everything.
Those that disliked it thought it was presented in too dry a manner and lacked flare.
I concede that the Campaign book is presented in a dry manner and that makes a lot of people overlook all the cool things going on in the setting. You can play any sort of game type in Kalamar, from Gothic Horror to Low Magic to Standard Sword and Sorcery to Cthulhuesque Fantasy. The setting actually leans a little by design towards the low magic spectrum (which I like) but leaves the door open for DM changes.
Oh. And I absolutely love the way the religions of Tellene were set up.
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Thanks for the extra input, everyone.
The Iron Kingdoms material sounds good for my taste; I'll have to do some looking.
The Tomes of Horror get so much praise but it seems to be just that, praise with little or no explanation. They're "old school" Monster Manuals, right? (Thanks, Lilith!) but I'm not sure what that means -- is it like the Pathfinder goblin?! You know, same monster, different look. Or is it more like Monster Ecologies? Are the Tomes big on fluff? or crunch? or art?
Thanks for the Midnight description. Very good explanation for someone who knows nothing about it.
Chaositech is like a book of a certain kind of template, then?? Or more like grafting "magical items" to a PC/NPC's body? What is chaos magic, just the basic premise?
-W. E. Ray
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The Tomes of Horror get so much praise but it seems to be just that, praise with little or no explanation. They're "old school" Monster Manuals, right? (Thanks, Lilith!) but I'm not sure what that means -- is it like the Pathfinder goblin?! You know, same monster, different look. Or is it more like Monster Ecologies? Are the Tomes big on fluff? or crunch? or art?
The Tome of Horrors is big on monsters. It has a lot of monster classics that were ignored by WotC at the time(Like the Wolf in Sheep's Clothing, the Flumph, Orcus, etc.). Art is black and white, ecology is minimal. Think the feel of the 1st edition Monster Manual.
If you want ecology with your monsters get Dangerous Denizens.
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I should share, too.
Sanctuary by Green Ronin details the title town and its history and immediate region. Sanctuary is the dark, nearly closed economy, corrupt town of thieves and politicians from Bob Asprin's Thieves World anthologies of short stories from the '80s. Lots of beggars, destitute kids, prostitutes, thieves. No monsters, low magic.
The campaign book by Green Ronin is half-and-half for the two "generations" of the town's history -- seperated by political stuff specific to the literature. And it gives advice on which "generation of Sanctuary" a gaming group might want to use depending on what kind of campaign flavor you play.
Ultimately, if you use it as is, Sanctuary will be only half usable. Also, unless you're familiar with Thieves World, there will be some definate questio marks as to what some of the references are.
The art and maps aren't that good at all.
It is mostly a book of fluff: low magic, good for "rogue friendly" campaign groups. Not a campaign for PG, or maybe even PG-13 groups.
-W. E. Ray
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I've got to throw in my recommendation here for an alternative setting:
Dragonstar by Fantasy Flight Games.
It is the best sci-fi/fantasy hybrid I've ever seen and I have many fond memories of it.
I also highly recommend the Iron Kingdoms books already suggested above.
I picked up the Witchfire Trilogy; it was great great stuff.
I've been wanting to hunt down Kenzer's stuff. I have Dangerous Denizen and I love it. Some really cool monsters in there. The setting looks cool in general.When the setting was released, I noticed people either loved it or hated it. Those of us who loved it saw within the campaign setting a very well thought out world with a little bit of everything.
Those that disliked it thought it was presented in too dry a manner and lacked flare.
I concede that the Campaign book is presented in a dry manner and that makes a lot of people overlook all the cool things going on in the setting. You can play any sort of game type in Kalamar, from Gothic Horror to Low Magic to Standard Sword and Sorcery to Cthulhuesque Fantasy. The setting actually leans a little by design towards the low magic spectrum (which I like) but leaves the door open for DM changes.
Oh. And I absolutely love the way the religions of Tellene were set up.
Well, I'm stoked, to find the books now! Sounds very flexible, which I like. As for it being dry... I read philosophy texts (early 20th century philosophers) and really anthropological texts for fun... so, i don't think a little dry text is going to hinder me any.
I've got to throw in my recommendation here for an alternative setting:
Dragonstar by Fantasy Flight Games.
It is the best sci-fi/fantasy hybrid I've ever seen and I have many fond memories of it.
I also highly recommend the Iron Kingdoms books already suggested above.
I really like Dragon Star, overall. There's one or two things that annoyed me about it, but it's minor fluff that I can change easily enough. I've got everything but the licensed adventures and the Imperial Supply, which seems to be notoriously difficult to track down.
Another one I liked by Fantasy Flight Games was DawnForge. Love the feel of the setting. Sadly, got very little support. There were only three titles released, one of which was an adventure. A lot of alternate rules and classes though, which may prove problematic. (It was one of the finalists in the contest that WotC held oh so many years ago).I can't give enough praise to the Iron Kingdoms!
I picked up the Witchfire Trilogy; it was great great stuff.I've got to throw in my recommendation here for an alternative setting:
Dragonstar by Fantasy Flight Games.
It is the best sci-fi/fantasy hybrid I've ever seen and I have many fond memories of it.
I also highly recommend the Iron Kingdoms books already suggested above.
Three posts in a row... I need to settle down...
I'm currently running the WitchFire Trilogy (about once a month). I love it! Many of my players have picked up the main rule book, and another picked up a copy of the campaign itself (which is sitting safely on MY bookshelf till the campaign finishes).
It seems that the community needs a collectors guide to 3.x.
Any volunteers? Stefan
I nominate Stebehil.
Any second?
Too much an honor... I have no idea how to set up a database like that. That´s why I asked for volunteers.
Stefan
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Chaositech is like a book of a certain kind of template, then?? Or more like grafting "magical items" to a PC/NPC's body? What is chaos magic, just the basic premise?
Well, it's really weird stuff and might not be everyone's cup of tea. I like it, but I know more ppl that don't...
It's like stuff from Cronenbergs movie 'Existence' if you know it.It contains rules that lets you fuse flesh with arcane or mechanical/technical devices and contains really disturbing stuff.
It feels like something that you'd expect to be in a cyberpunk-setting transferred to D&D. And it has a little far realm flair to it.
Well, I don't know, it's actually really hard to explain! :)
It doesn't really fit into classic, greyhawky fantasy-settings, imho, only if you like to introduce something really alien.
I used it in Iron Kingdoms once and I found it to be fitting, but some of my players complained that it was too weird.
It has some really cool monsters with far realm-flair and cool parts on grafts and mutations.
Hope this helps...
I used it in Iron Kingdoms once and I found it to be fitting, but some of my players complained that it was too weird.
It has some really cool monsters with far realm-flair and cool parts on grafts and mutations.Hope this helps...
I may have to check it out. Sounds like it might work well for the Cryxians and the infernals in the Iron Kingdoms, or at least some of it might.
EDIT: One thing I loved about the Hounds of Tindalos in Pathfinder 4 was how well they would integrate into IK as one of the infernals (or at least servants as such). I'm always on the look out for more things along those lines.
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I may have to check it out. Sounds like it might work well for the Cryxians and the infernals in the Iron Kingdoms, or at least some of it might.
Yes, I used stuff from Chaositech for infernals. Cryx would fit too, though. But be aware that there's some stuff in there that would be too weird and SF-flavoured even for the IK. But if you can get it cheap somewhere, than it's really worth having a look.
It shouldn't be forgotten that it is written by Monte Cook who has a name for doing quality and imaginative stuff. But this is his weirdest work, for sure...