Brains; more brains; must see the super brains; ahem; sorry bout that; glitch in my programming; was channeling Uberzombie for a minute; reboot in progress; system up and optimal, new instructions; must order "special" flea collar for Heathydog; must tablulate and cross reference all laws with powers given; hmm; what is this pattern emerging....
Oh, this is going to be bad, really bad, I'm expecting worse than the Dominator invasion. Ok, Brainiac 5, what is your multi-facet plan? You aren't going to send anymore Legionnaires home are you? I say we throw the dog into a time bubble and jet send him to Noah's Arc and hope he doesn't make the two by two animal pairs going up the plank....problem solved. Right????
You really are a heathen, you know that? Ok, I just read issue #37 of the current Legion comic and boy did it feel like they jumped ahead. Am I the only one that felt like this? I liked it, I just thought to myself....did I forget what happened in issue #36...I'd better go back and read it. After flipping back to the last page of #36, I decided it seemed like a big jump. Maybe it had everything thing to do with the fact that the writer and artist team changed. It was great to see Jim Shooter's name back on the cover though.
Anyone else think the same thing?
kinda makes you wonder how much of that is gonna happen; I have noted over the years that new guys often take the story in directions that are booring or not as interesting as the previous guys, but sometimes you get lucky and they bring a lot of new intrigue and depth to the characters; skips like your describing is a good way to clear the slate so to speak; allow for some backshadowing without getting swallowed by the current history of the characters.
I agree that it cleans the slate and I can understand that. I was disapointed how in issue #36 they suddenly wrapped up all of their problems though. That was way to rushed....but things go on. Did I miss something with Cosmic Boy...they still haven't found him have they? I had the impression this was going to revealed, yet I don't recall that happening. If I forgot something I'll have to go back and re-read.
One thing I was going to mention....I'm sure it isn't the case but I did think of it when I was reading issue #37.
Does anyone recall the original series in which Invisible Kid died by the hands of Validus (issue #203 of Superboy starring the Legion of Super-Heroes). In that issue, they introduced a story saying that Invisible Kid had been visiting a lady named Myra who was already dead. Only when he was invisible state could he somehow visit her. Naturally, they fell in love. At the end of the issue, Validus kills Invisible Kid. The Legionnaire and Myra apparently live happily ever after.
I don't expect anything to happen to Invisible Kid anytime soon, but foreshadowing did occur to me.
What do you folks think? I probably read into things to much.
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They haven't found Cos, and won't be able to until he returns from the future. The whole 'seach for Cosmic Boy' thing was a series of plots by Brainy to tidy things up and keep the team busy. Dream Girl (who is kinda/sorta dead at the moment) has assured Brainy (and Imra) that Cosmic Boy's disappearance will sort itself out soon enough...
I'm very excited to have Shooter back on the book, and Manapuls art is different than my ideal, but still excellent.
Jim Shooter has suggested in interviews that he could have just 'rebooted' the team back to the team he was familiar with, and gotten rid of Mark Waids 'threeboot' changes (Gim as part of a race of giant humans, multi-dimensional Tinya, african-Xanthu'an Thom, etc.), but he felt that Legion fans had already suffered through enough 'reboots,' and that they would be better served by having a creative team respect what had come before and move it organically in a direction that will evoke the 'classic' Legion, without mashing the 'Superboy punches reality' button.
I respect this choice, 'cause it sure isn't the easy one, even if I'd have chosen the 'reality-punch' un-boot option myself.
So it does seem that Shooter will be working on tweaking the team back towards the pre-Waid days (as has already started to happen, with the re-introduction of Wildfire and Tenzil Kem), without just sweeping it all ignominously under the rug, as happened with previous incarnations.
I'm (obviously) not a fan of Waid's threeboot, but Shooter's decision not to just junk it and walk away is pretty darn mature. He recognizes that it may not be the Legion us old-timers most strongly identify with, but it's still got fans and we all remember quite well how *our* favorite incarnations were crapped upon and abandoned, so doing that to the fans of *this* incarnation just to reclaim our glory days would be kinda hypocritical.
That said, there's also elements of Waid's run that I very much enjoyed and would like to see stick around, such as the new take on Brin Londo, or Dream Girl's more active presence. Even 'dead,' she's had more screen time than Colossal Boy!
Well said; cool post.
I skipped pretty much everything that happened in the mid 80's on up to the current comic. I've collected quite a bit to fill in these gaps but I'm holding off on reading a lot of it until I have full storylines in succession, so as mentioned before, a lot of the re-boot stuff I'm slow on.
Some of the changes made in the current comic I like, others not as much as the original. For example, I didn't care for the reversing of Colossal Boy and Shrinking Violet powers, though I do like the idea of him being a giant and living in giant personal quarters and her having that little bubble/ball she lives in. So these are give and take issues for me.
I love the idea of going back to more "classic legion" feel and doing so gradually rather than once again, starting all over. This does a complete diservice to the fans and each new start up never seems to last. To simply go with the flow and slowly incoporate the writer's ideas is best in this case.
I hope he keeps the personalities pretty much the same. As much as I loved the old series, the characters just didn't have a difference in personality, everyone seemed to be the same. This has changed dramatically and I hope it continues.
I also like the higher tech sci-fi feel of today. I did like this in the original series as well (more in the 70's), but I think that the way comics are written today, they can go into a lot more detail.
I'm doing a bit of a mish mash for my game at the moment, pretty much using the original mixed with the better elements of the new stuff. At this point I'm skipping over the years of adding and retiring legionnaires (seems to me in the late 80-90's they apparently added so many weird characters I have yet to be able to relate to it. They are probably well liked by others but I need the familiarity when designing a game. That's what the supplements will (hopefully) be for, or I can add it eventually as I become more familiar with the material.
So just out of curiousity, what would you folks reccomend for including in a bit of a mish mash of comic changes/series for my game? Would you go strictly current stuff? Strictly old stuff? Pick and choose? Keep things separate? Feedback please!
Also, for a super-hero game, do you prefer rolling for stats, spending points to buy attributes/powers, or does someone else have another suggestion? Looking for input so I can consider as many options as possible. Here are the basic goals for character creation..but not necessarily in any kind of order..
1. Fun for the players to do
2. Generates very quick NPC (like in mere minutes so I can whip up a needed individual in the middle of the game without slowing things down.
3. Maybe provide better or more options for PCs than say quick NPCs.
4. Major NPCs should be just as detailed as PCs.
5. All of the core Legionnaires will follow the character creation rules without being slighted in the least.
More Feedback please!
Well, truthfully, most gamers are make terrible super heroes; they just dont seem to get the point of the game; sad to say, but that is my experience; if you have players that actually read comic then you are way ahead and will probably have a good time; sadly, only a couple of my players read comics.
well; as for running a game; I wouldnt run anything to close to any current comic thread or you will bring the rules lawyers out of the closet; I really recommend that you do your own timeline and events.
now; are you asking for gaming advice on plots and threads common to comics to throw at your players; am a little confused; can do this, but really want to understand what your asking for.
whenever I set up a game, i always sit down and talk to my players about several things about the game world; I make my games to suit my players desires; so i try to find out things like how silly or serious they want the game to be; both can be fun; how dark or grey vs black and white they want the game to be; what era they want to play in like golden age of the 50's, cold war era (one of my favorites) or some post modern or futuristic world; a great gm would probably prepare all these settings so their gamers can explore all of this, keep in mind that silly is very hard to do; the mojoverse in marvel was mostly just crap for example, but some of the ambush bugs stuff or that elf like guy with the real long name you have to trick him into saying three times is some classic stuff.
another thing I try to find out is the characters feelings bout long drawn out campaigns vs games that last 3 or 4 sessions; I try to do a mix of both; most scenarios are 3-6 sessions but may give clues to general overall campaign ideas. I have found that players like the feeling of accomplishment, but some players want long term stuff they can sink their teeth into; so I do both.
send me an email at valgrymr@gmail.com and I will try to email you some stuff to look though that might help. give it heading superheroes or something close.
as for character generation; for supers I prefer point buy; played villian and vigilanties once and rolled a complete wimp that was almost no help to the party; if you do rolls; I suggest you let them roll 3 characters and choose one so you can avoid this sort of thing. point buy is much harder of course, as you both have to have a good understanding of the rule set.
just some thoughts.
I'm (obviously) not a fan of Waid's threeboot, but Shooter's decision not to just junk it and walk away is pretty darn mature. He recognizes that it may not be the Legion us old-timers most strongly identify with, but it's still got fans and we all remember quite well how *our* favorite incarnations were crapped upon and abandoned, so doing that to the fans of *this* incarnation just to reclaim our glory days would be kinda hypocritical.That said, there's also elements of Waid's run that I very much enjoyed and would like to see stick around...
Preach. On.
Well said. Couldn't have said it better myself. There are a few things I like here. I find Colossal Boy's origin to be hilarious, but not in a demeaning or insulting way- I think it's genuinely funny. I LOVE his take on Triplicate Girl, and as tiring as "stuff it grandpa" gets, I love the fact that this new legion is open to kids of all ages, powers or no powers- I always thought that was rather dumb, probably because when I was young and in my "make mine marvel" days, the only dc comics I read were Legion of Super Heroes and Batman..I always wondered what he would have to say about that team.I'm sure I said this before, but I grew up on the somewhat more "mature" version of the Legion in the 80's, so I like the idea of the Legion gaining respect as time goes on, but still playing second fiddle to the science police in some areas/worlds. I'm very interesting in seeing where this legion is going, especially with the wanderers/legion of super villains out there as an alternative.
Valegrim said:
"Well, truthfully, most gamers are make terrible super heroes; they just dont seem to get the point of the game; sad to say, but that is my experience; if you have players that actually read comic then you are way ahead and will probably have a good time; sadly, only a couple of my players read comics."
Eileen Says:
The individuals I play with are strictly family and very good roleplayers. I'm creating the game primarly because it is what I like to do. In the process, I hope that we will sit down and play when I have enough material worked out. I'm the only one big on comics and the family size will be dwindling down as one is already in high school. I have always worked on games and thought I would love to bring my two favorite passions together. I don't expect to commercialize it or anything like that. The players are exceptional roleplayers, well beyond most people so I think there is room for learning the game. Even if I'm wrong, I still want to make it because that in itself is great fun for me.
Valegrim said:
"well; as for running a game; I wouldnt run anything to close to any current comic thread or you will bring the rules lawyers out of the closet; I really recommend that you do your own timeline and events."
Eileen says:
Since it is family and I don't have anyone who is a rules lawyer type, I'm ok here as well. I know what you mean though. I have played with other gaming groups where things like this would have been a big issue. Playing with just family reduces a lot of the problems a regular group has. I don't forsee adding players in the future but when I do work on rules I try and write them in a way that allows for the possibility of new people down the road. Mainly because I'm kinda a perfectionist personality type when it comes to things like this.
Valgrim said:
"now; are you asking for gaming advice on plots and threads common to comics to throw at your players; am a little confused; can do this, but really want to understand what your asking for."
Eileen says:
No, I'm not looking for plots or anything like that yet. I have to get the rules mechanically sound and then start working on the fluff for the legion universe world, create villains, Legionnaires, etc. lots of work to do.
Valegrim said:
"whenever I set up a game, i always sit down and talk to my players about several things about the game world; I make my games to suit my players desires; so i try to find out things like how silly or serious they want the game to be; both can be fun; how dark or grey vs black and white they want the game to be; what era they want to play in like golden age of the 50's, cold war era (one of my favorites) or some post modern or futuristic world; a great gm would probably prepare all these settings so their gamers can explore all of this, keep in mind that silly is very hard to do; the mojoverse in marvel was mostly just crap for example, but some of the ambush bugs stuff or that elf like guy with the real long name you have to trick him into saying three times is some classic stuff.
another thing I try to find out is the characters feelings bout long drawn out campaigns vs games that last 3 or 4 sessions; I try to do a mix of both; most scenarios are 3-6 sessions but may give clues to general overall campaign ideas. I have found that players like the feeling of accomplishment, but some players want long term stuff they can sink their teeth into; so I do both."
Eileen says:
I pretty much do the same thing, I talk to the players a lot about the campaign, or in this case the game and what it would be like, what they would be interested in doing, that sort of thing. Since I'm making up the game mechanics now, I check with them and see what they think about this or that, if they see problems with them, if I have more than one way of doing something I present both and see which idea is better from their point of view, that sort of thing.
Valegrim said:
"as for character generation; for supers I prefer point buy; played villian and vigilanties once and rolled a complete wimp that was almost no help to the party; if you do rolls; I suggest you let them roll 3 characters and choose one so you can avoid this sort of thing. point buy is much harder of course, as you both have to have a good understanding of the rule set."
Eileen says:
I've been working on the character creation rules (have a long way to go) and find it nice to be able to discuss it with someone outside of my little circle here at home. I try and exaust my ideas at first, then look at some other game and see if it is better, worse, good for ideas, that sort of thing. I guess my asking questions has more to do with getting over various stumbling blocks on the design and looking for better ways to do things.
I'm trying to take a different appropach the development of the game than others I have worked on in the past, D&D and Top Secret/S.I. Some basics behind the game include:
Each player will have 3-4 Legionnaires they play, although only using one at a time. This allows for small groups of heroes to work together in order to deal with complex plots similar to the comics. One of the Legionnaires they play is intended to be a character of their creation, the remaining 2-3 are those from the comics.
You know how a small group of Legionnaires head out to planet "X" to check this situation out, meanwhile another small group goes to check "X" out somewhere else, and yet a third group is returning from a previous mission and gets attacked by some evil race....then eventually it all ties together....this is what I'm kinda going for.
I think of each group as an encounter, then switch to the next pocket group, then the third, then back to the first, all within one game. Each is played out until their situation ends, then go to the next group, etc. Eventually as mentioned, it all ties together.
The games sessions last generally around 6-8 hours at a time, sometimes longer. I was thinking of a story line lasting about 4-6 games and then moving on to some new material, probably similar to a soap opera on tv, add bits and pieces so as one plot is close to ending, another is starting to come to the forefront.
Roleplaying is intended to be huge and the game mechanics are being designed to promote that.
In regards to my asking about using just the original Legion or the new stuff, or blending some together, I guess what I was asking is what interests others? What would appeal to them if they were playing? What are the better points of each Legion reincarnation? Kinda a food for thought request on my part.
The bottom line is I like working on games and I love the Legion. I like the idea of bouncing ideas off of others because it gives me feedback on better ways to do things. My Legion knowledge is so old that I want to see what others would like to do if they were playing this game, makes me more comfortable and happy about the work I put into it I guess. Hope I'm not wasting your time here.
Well, truthfully, most gamers are make terrible super heroes; they just dont seem to get the point of the game; sad to say, but that is my experience; if you have players that actually read comic then you are way ahead and will probably have a good time; sadly, only a couple of my players read comics.
well; as for running a game; I wouldnt run anything to close to any current comic thread or you will bring the rules lawyers out of the closet; I really recommend that you do your own timeline and events.
now; are you asking for gaming advice on plots and threads common to comics to throw at your players; am a little confused; can do this, but really want to understand what your asking for.
whenever I set up a game, i always sit down and talk to my players about several things about the game world; I make my games to suit my players desires; so i try to find out things like how silly or serious they want the game to be; both can be fun; how dark or grey vs black and white they want the game to be; what era they want to play in like golden age of the 50's, cold war era (one of my favorites) or some post modern or futuristic world; a great gm would probably prepare all these settings so their gamers can explore all of this, keep in mind that silly is very hard to do; the mojoverse in marvel was mostly just crap for example, but some of the ambush bugs stuff or that elf like guy with the real long name you have to trick him into saying three times is some classic stuff.
another thing I try to find out is the characters feelings bout long drawn out campaigns vs games that last 3 or 4 sessions; I try to do a mix of both; most scenarios are 3-6 sessions but may give clues to general overall campaign ideas. I have found that players like the feeling of accomplishment, but some players want long term stuff they can sink their teeth into; so I do both.
send me an email at valgrymr@gmail.com and I will try to email you some stuff to look though that might help. give it heading superheroes or something close.
...
Valegrim, great post, and I agree with you wholeheartedly on almost everything(mojoverse was stupid when it wasn't absolutely frightening, I forget who the artist was, but there was a time where mojo was in my nightmares). So few gamers nowadays read comics, although I suspect that's almost always been the case- the ones I know are far more familiar with classics than classic DC or Marvel, although they read a surprising amount of vertigo stuff.
In my experience with MSH, it was classic gaming staples to the point of cheesiness- weekly warlord promising to take over the world or somesuch, and we always found a way to defeat him, however temporarily, within three or four sessions. But that was what made the games long term, in time we had a sizable rogues gallery and a few "acts of vengeance"-esque storylines and even one take on crisis on infinite earths.... Ah, memories.
I would start with a series of unconnected adventures that create a rogues gallery for the players, and then have those villains start to work together and create a power base to rival the PC's as time goes on, maybe even form their own legion of super villains. Make sure the PCs face opposition at every turn, and that they always find a way to save the day.
I dont understand why you are trying to reinvent the wheel and make a whole gaming system; there are quite a few to choose from that are pretty good; does anyone know if DC has any game system out?
Freehold, thanks for the advice on plotting. How long did you play MSH? Was it a long lasting serious campaign or something to past the time and kinda goof around with?
I like you villain intro ideas.
I dont understand why you are trying to reinvent the wheel and make a whole gaming system; there are quite a few to choose from that are pretty good; does anyone know if DC has any game system out?
Oh, I'm sure their are lots of good games out there, that isn't it at all. I'm doing it because I like to make games. It's fun! I get a good feeling from working from scratch and making things turn out as well as possible. I worked on my Top Secret/S.I. game for many years, adding information to the rulebooks, eventually more than doubling the size of the game. It was fun. Now I want to work on this idea for the next ten years or so.
Freehold, thanks for the advice on plotting. How long did you play MSH? Was it a long lasting serious campaign or something to past the time and kinda goof around with?
I like you villain intro ideas.
Oh man, MSH was my first experience with roleplaying- we played from my sophomore year into my senior year, when I started getting into White Wolf(at that time I was, to my shame, on the anti-D&D wagon). That was ages ago though, I played a few one shots in college, but I really haven't played since...1997? Yeesh, over ten years ago! Yikes! I'll thumb through the rules again just to make sure it's not nostalgia telling me that it's the greatest hero system ever.
Eileen, I'll be visiting the Twin Cities this coming weekend, and I can bring my copy of the LSH sourcebook, if you'd like to borrow it.
After browsing through the LSH sourcebook and the DC game system I saw a lot of ideas which can spur direction for me, which is exactly what I have been hoping for. I'm always trying to take a unique approach to common aspects of role playing games.
For example, the character creation system. DC offers a point build system which from what I have gathered is popular with super-hero games. So in return I'm trying to come up with something that is different yet just as good. Another area I have been debating about is the use of drawbacks. My Top Secret/S.I. game has disadvantages which are similar. I know I want to cover these aspects of characters, its just a matter of how. Reading this kind of material not only pushes the brain for ideas but also gives excellent comparisons from one hero to the next as well as what kinds of problems they have in the comics that I may not have been aware of.
Once again, thanks.
Looking forward to your email Valegrim. I'm sure what you scan will be quite valuable to me as well.
I was hoping to try and get some excellend discussions going on this thread...I could propose a question or two and see where it goes but I would like to see someone else discuss what they want to talk about as well. So lets see if we can come up with something specific for the sake of interaction for awhile.
You start, what's the topic?
Eileen, get back to Canonfire! where you belong!
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I like the idea of playing 3-4 characters and the little group adventures that are all part of the whole. Cool idea.
Give them a character from the Substitute Legion to play too. ;)
I haven't read all the posts. :(
Have you tried/looked at Champions system?
I think it's the best for superhero RPG's.
Yeah, it uses point buy system.
Another game to reference is Providence. (out of print unfortunately...) But you can probably find it out there.
Link of a review
I'm working on making that system into D&D, but I'm going very slowly since I don't have a gaming group to play with right now.
Are you making the game from scratch?
Here's my question:
What are the game systems you like?
I'll also answer:
Deadlands
Cyberpunk
Castle Falkenstein
Amber
Providence
Feng Shui
Over the Edge
Champions
Qin
Dragon Fist (basically D&D)
Weapons of the Gods
Hong Kong Action Theater
Earth Dawn
and D&D
Bubbagump...I was on Canonfire and left some new threads which you didn't bother to respond to......Sniff...Sniff.....now my feelings are hurt!
I like the idea of playing 3-4 characters and the little group adventures that are all part of the whole. Cool idea.
Give them a character from the Substitute Legion to play too. ;)I haven't read all the posts. :(
Have you tried/looked at Champions system?
I think it's the best for superhero RPG's.
Yeah, it uses point buy system.Another game to reference is Providence. (out of print unfortunately...) But you can probably find it out there.
Link of a review
I'm working on making that system into D&D, but I'm going very slowly since I don't have a gaming group to play with right now.Are you making the game from scratch?
Here's my question:
What are the game systems you like?
Thanks for commenting on the idea of small group/bigger part of the plot concept. I do plan to include the Substitute Legion as well. Won't be in the first trial run of rules/characters but will get thrown into the mix down the road. But what do I do with the Super pets?????
I don't have Champions but I have looked at it in the stores....is it still in print? I will closely check out your Providence game as well. Thanks for the link.
Yes, I am making the game from scratch. I don't have a lot done, but in short I have the basic combat rules, ability scores (which will need some major polishing as time goes on), the concept of how it is to be played in regards to flavor not rules), misc. combat rules which need to be rewritten (they came from the 1st combat rule concept which fell flat before it even got off the ground), right now I'm working on accomplishments (skills), and assigning stats to the Legionnaires. Much discussion has been done on how powers for homemade characters will work as well.
One player wants to play a Legionnaire who sort of steal (borrows) an opponent's super power (kinda like duplicate boy), only can they can continue to use the powers they are exposed to for a short while. Think of it as an energy drain and you gain the ability for awhile. The other wants to play a character with cold-based powers. I'm thinking mine will manipulate but not create energy. I need a character name as well, the origin is pretty much figured out for this indivdual.
My background in roleplaying games started with D&D (I was in 9th grade). I'm a huge Greyhawk fan, though when I was I was in high school I would bounce back and forth from homebrew to Greyhawk. Eventually I stuck with Greyhawk and incorporated the better homebrew ideas into it.
I have played a little Marvel Super Heroes, Superworld a few times, Star Frontiers once or twice. I am a huge fan of the Top Secret/S.I. game of which most of my game design efforts derived from. I more than doubled the size of that game and have played it for many years.
Currently, I seem to be taking a break from actually gaming. Sad to say! Schedules have become to demanding for certain individuals and as a result things have for the time slowed drastically.
My primary games...D&D and Top Secret/S.I.
Eileen, get back to Canonfire! where you belong!
Heathansson wrote:
"Too late, Bub. She's ourn'. Okay, we can work out a joint custody deal."I said:
I feels so used!!!!!
Do you really want to be a super pet?
Hmmmm....then it is a shame you are a member of the wolf family. Guess that puts you on the bottom of the pile. But that's ok, here at the Legion of Super Pets tryouts we don't discriminate. Heck, if a monkey can get in, surely you can Heath!
Monkeys are all evil thieves. They should be destroyed.
Ok....? If that is how you feel I will have super monkey removed from the Legion of Super Pets and I certainly won't include him in my game. I apprecaite the head's up on that issue. I had no idea that all monkeys were thieves. Apparently my knowledge of the animal kingdom is considerably limited. Please forgive me....
"Sorry supermonkey, but the big bad wolf doesn't like you, so you need to go now. Go on, back to the jungle where you came...and take that bannana peel with you."
Apparently there is an opening.....Could you suggest a suitable replacement for supermonkey?
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King Kong isn't a monkey... so Heathy needn't worry...
Super Pets... hmm... I'd leave them out to start. Add them in after you have the rest ironed out.
I played some Top Secret but I don't have the books anymore, not do I remember the rules... been too dang long don't cha' know.
Yes, Champions is still in print. Currently in 5th edition. It's the biggest game book I've ever seen. (Bigger than Synabarr)
I've only played Marvel Super Heroes for the one campaign. My char was too powerful for my idea of what he should have been. I thought the rules for rolling a char made the char slightly broken. (but I still loved ready the gaming materials.)
I'd like to see how your game progresses and would give you help/feedback if you would like.
Super Pets... hmm... I'd leave them out to start. Add them in after you have the rest ironed out.Eileen said:
The inclusion of the super pets at this point in time was a joke. I do plan to include the Substitute Legion members within a reasonable amount of time.Fray said:
I played some Top Secret but I don't have the books anymore, not do I remember the rules... been too dang long don't cha' know.Eileen said:
As mentioned my work on this game is considerable. All the the game mechanics still exist or have extended versions of them written. The core rules out of the box left me a lot of room to work with. Sometimes I think I like game design more than playing...Fray said:
Yes, Champions is still in print. Currently in 5th edition. It's the biggest game book I've ever seen. (Bigger than Synabarr)I've only played Marvel Super Heroes for the one campaign. My char was too powerful for my idea of what he should have been. I thought the rules for rolling a char made the char slightly broken. (but I still loved ready the gaming materials.)
Eileen said:
I'll have to poke around at the Source Comics and Games in the Twin Cities for Champions. Seems to me the book was pretty expensive, really thick hard cover, right?I didn't play Marvel a lot, but when I did, the character I created was called the Gremlin. Green, small (5' or so), always crouched down, some hair, long claws and tail, had the power to climb and give opponents bad luck, which was how opponents were defeated. Probably played about 5-7 times tops. My older brother was the game master and he didn't stick with things very well. Games consisted of nothing more than a brawl with some villain robbing bank.
Fray said:
I'd like to see how your game progresses and would give you help/feedback if you would like.
Eileen said:
I would be happy to get some feedback. Please understand that I really don't have much written yet though. I thought I would get just enough done to play, then come up with most of the rules as I saw they needed to be included/changed, etc. Keep an eye on your emails.And thanks for the offer.
King Kong? I heard he has a rubber ding dong.
Sounds like the wolf is going to be howling at the moon tonight!
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Super pets....
I nominates
Hong Kong Phooey
The Kangaroo that's always kicking the crap outta Sylvester
Animal (from the freakin muppets)
Ignatz Mouse
and
Fritz the Cat.
Give them a shakedown mission LOSH issue, like Kitty Pryde in X-Men #143. See who makes the cut and who burns up on reentering the atmosphere.
I laughed when you said Hong Kong Phooey....that was good!
Just got back from Super Walmart....you'd think you could find a soundtrack with super hero music....but NO!!!! Explain to me why they call it SUPER WALMART then. It is terrible business practices like this which explain why we don't see Walmart in the 31st century. All I wanted to do was listen to some DC hero music...is that to much to ask?
Apparently so!!!!!!!
ack; am such a twit; was up gaming to late last night and forgot to bring that stuff to work to scan it; will try to get it to you soon; many appologies.
Eileen, I'll be visiting the Twin Cities this coming weekend, and I can bring my copy of the LSH sourcebook, if you'd like to borrow it.After browsing through the LSH sourcebook and the DC game system I saw a lot of ideas which can spur direction for me, which is exactly what I have been hoping for. I'm always trying to take a unique approach to common aspects of role playing games.
For example, the character creation system. DC offers a point build system which from what I have gathered is popular with super-hero games. So in return I'm trying to come up with something that is different yet just as good. Another area I have been debating about is the use of drawbacks. My Top Secret/S.I. game has disadvantages which are similar. I know I want to cover these aspects of characters, its just a matter of how. Reading this kind of material not only pushes the brain for ideas but also gives excellent comparisons from one hero to the next as well as what kinds of problems they have in the comics that I may not have been aware of.
Once again, thanks.
Looking forward to your email Valegrim. I'm sure what you scan will be quite valuable to me as well.
I was hoping to try and get some excellend discussions going on this thread...I could propose a question or two and see where it goes but I would like to see someone else discuss what they want to talk about as well. So lets see if we can come up with something specific for the sake of interaction for awhile.
You start, what's the topic?
I really suggest using Champions as there are some basic caviats of the game system that make things generally easy for both players and the gm; in the most basic sense the game is based on the idea that 1d6 = 5 game points and this is the general idea that glues the whole game together; so a normal person starts with 10 in most characteristics; take str for example; with a 10 str you can do 2d6 of damage or with some type of normal ranged attack that you spend 10 game points on; you do 2d6 damage; so generally speaking in the game; you spend game points to buy +d6 points to increase an abilities capability no matter if it is a blast of some kind to do damage or a mind scan to find someone; the basic premise is that it is your sum of the d6 you roll for effect that you purchased vs the amount of defense vs that effect that they bought in game points.
I have found that quite often the most difficult thing for a gm to avoid in the Champions game system has to do with losing sight of that premise. This lost sight comes when a player confuses the gm on what something may look like on film vs game mechanics. It does not matter to the game mechanics if a 4d6 energy blast is red, blue, green, or whanot, but it does matter in consistancy that the energy comes out of the players hand, eyes, or whatever the same way; and always does so and does not change without some agreed upon condition. hmm, I am not really stating the problem well; what i am trying to say is try not to get caught in the fluff of what an effect looks like; the game mechanic is only there to provide the math in game terms and should be invisible to the story.
I highly advise using the champions system; anything 2ed to current is good so if you can pick up 2ed ed at a used bookstore that is just fine as the the other eds are just refinements of the system to help peeps understand it better; I dont recommend 1st ed only because it is in about 4 different books; 2ed is consolidated as are the rest.
so; if you pick up the system; you will probably have a few questions right off; ie want help understanding real vs active points; and determining how many points to base your game on <= this means how many points a player adds to his character to buy skills, talents, and powers; ie the power level of your game. +150 is a typical medium to low supers game where characters maybe break doors or dent walls; +300 is a very high point game with characters that can level cities.
The high point of this game is that it is very very versatile and nearly anything you can think of can be generated using this ruleset.
Valegrim:
Seems champions takes a different approach to base combat then. I like that. I am working on ways to increase one's chance of success with attacks, that part is pretty easy, assuming the general system works in the first place. I must say, your advice in regards to the power fluff was not something I had considered. Last night I started working on stats for core Legionnaires with a little bit of attention put into powers. Your post definently is going to make me think that sort of thing through more than I would have otherwise. Thank You.
Last night I realized that the basic character creation system wasn't going to work. So rather than building the creation system first and the Legionnaires second, I chose to try doing it backwards. I'm going to try and select what the core Legionnaires abilities are and then build a system that meets their requirements. So we will see....The way it looks right now, if I do it this way I'll be able to go back to the original material and restructure it (in other words fix what was broken and not discard the basic idea).
At the moment, since each player will have 3-4 characters they are responsible for (one being a Legionnaire of their creation), the others part of the core comic Legionnaires (they only play one at a time), I am planning on having each select 1 character that is a heavy hitter (meaning very powerful), and the probably 1-2 in the middle, with the last being on the weaker end of the scale. If the player wants their homemade character to be the heavy hitter, that's fine, then the others they select will be weaker. If they want to play Supergirl then the Legionnaire they create will be in the middle to low end. Bottom line isn't that each hero is even, it is that the group you selected to play is. So we will see how that goes.
One player wants to have a character who utilizes cold powers. It's easy to think of different types of attacks the character could do, even visualize them. With the comics we have the advantage of the artist to help tell the story....in RPG's at best it is the game master being descriptive (descriptions which often players visualize differently unless the game master makes a point of adding detail to the encounter).
So far I have concentrated on mechanics and roleplaying. Your advice is an excellent direction I was over looking.
Hey! What happened to my post? I had an entire humorous thing on DC music...*sigh*
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I laughed when you said Hong Kong Phooey....that was good!
Just got back from Super Walmart....you'd think you could find a soundtrack with super hero music....but NO!!!! Explain to me why they call it SUPER WALMART then. It is terrible business practices like this which explain why we don't see Walmart in the 31st century. All I wanted to do was listen to some DC hero music...is that to much to ask?
Apparently so!!!!!!!
If I go crazy, then will you just call me Superman?
Hey! What happened to my post? I had an entire humorous thing on DC music...*sigh*
You did....where did you post it? What did it look like? What did it say? If you can properly identify it word for word (including any possible spelling and grammer errors, we might give it back to you!!
Try again, I want to read what you wrote. I had a glitch Jan. 1st in which my post errored and never showed up.
If I go crazy, then will you just call me Superman?
I love that song...who sings it? I need to compile some good super-hero music to work by.
Heath wrote:
Spider man, Spider man
Doin them things a spider can
does.
Uhh.....Legion Heath....Hello....anyone home....Are you in there? Tap...Tap...Tap...Clunk....
Heath wrote:
Neener neener neener neener
Neener neener neener neener
Batman
neener neener neener neener
Batman
neener neener neener neener
Batman Batman
Neener neener neener
Batman Batman Batman
Nananana nanananana
Batman!
A little closer...right company anyway!
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Oh, yeah if he was in the Losh he'd be "Spider Lad."
Alan Ladd was not in the Losh. He was in Shane.
3 Doors Down did the song "Kryptonite." I don't know who does what song anymore; I have to wikipedia that stuff. I had to wiki "emo" to know what that was; I thought all the kids were into Emo Phillips or something.
I still don't quite know what "emo" is. I guess it's Goth with t-shirts and jeans.
I had to wiki "emo" to know what that was; I thought all the kids were into Emo Phillips or something.I still don't quite know what "emo" is. I guess it's Goth with t-shirts and jeans.
I don't speak the language either....Hang on Let me check...I have a teenage source upstairs....(leaves the computer hoping to return).
I don't speak the language either....Hang on Let me check...I have a teenage source upstairs....(leaves the computer hoping to return).
I had to wiki "emo" to know what that was; I thought all the kids were into Emo Phillips or something.I still don't quite know what "emo" is. I guess it's Goth with t-shirts and jeans.
Apparently I returned....I also caught one of those "KIDS" that keeps running through my yard and making all sorts of noise in the middle of the night....Under unpleasant circumstances this is what she had to say....
The word "emo" is the shortened way to say "emotional". "Emo" describes someone who is emotionally unstable. These are the people who are most known for cutting themselves. Someone who is considered "emo" commonly wears black and looks kind of gothic; they are commonly known as people who hate life and feel that their life is horriable and a waste of space. Usually they inflict wounds and pain on themselves to make the pain and suffering of life go away.
Hope that helps!
Jillion Tealleaf