Tumor Familiars Help

[SamaelTheOdd]

So, me(a Kitsune Alchemist) and my party of a Dwarven Ranger, Kitsune Ninja, and a Changeling Summoner just leveled up to level 2.

The others were pretty sure about what they wanted to do. I was a little split about what discovery I wanted. I eventually settled on a Tumor Familiar, and my whole party(and the DM himself) were confused why I would take it.(he would have a tumor and all that)

Personally I wanted a type of familiar so if we were in a pinch, they could help. Plus, an extra perception check never hurt anyone.

I've been confused about a few things though and tried to search them up. I couldn't find sufficient answers. These questions are:
Can you take the tumor familiar discovery multiple times?
Does a tumor familiar still count as a different being when attached?
Is your tumor familiar a new shape whenever it detaches?*cough*overpowered*cough*
This one may spark up a bit of an argument, but does a Tumor Familiar qualify for the improved familiar feat?

If you could explain benefits of a tumor familiar that I could tell my party about that would be awesome.
Or you can try to tell me how I should probably take another discovery at early levels...

[_Ozy_]

1) No
2) Probably
3) Probably not
4) Probably not, though it's not a bad house rule

Monkey familiar + poisoner's gloves = 2 free infusions at the start of combat

Protector archetype + attached (fast healing) = doubles your hit points (kinda)

[Lady-J]

tumor familiar is awesome take either the protector archetype(basically makes it a dmg sponge) or see if you dm will let you take some levels into vitalist(you can basically steal its fast healing). no you cant take multiple times, while attached it cant be targeted or effected by anything, tumor familiar is the same shape when it detaches chosen at time of aquireing, it cannot benefit from improved familiar

[Melkiador]

SamaelTheOdd wrote:

I've been confused about a few things though and tried to search them up. I couldn't find sufficient answers. These questions are:
Can you take the tumor familiar discovery multiple times?
Does a tumor familiar still count as a different being when attached?
Is your tumor familiar a new shape whenever it detaches?*cough*overpowered*cough*
This one may spark up a bit of an argument, but does a Tumor Familiar qualify for the improved familiar feat?

If you could explain benefits of a tumor familiar that I could tell my party about that would be awesome.
Or you can try to tell me how I should probably take another discovery at early levels...

1) You can't take a discovery more than once unless it explicitly lets you do that

2) It apparently remains a separate creature once it first separates. The die for your master feat from the same source makes this more obvious.
3) No. the new shape text is for the first time your tumor separates. After that, you benefit from your familiar bonus whether the familiar is attached or not, implying that it stays the same shape.
4) There is a FAQ that a tumor can't be an improved familiar. It is more questionable if you can replace your tumor with a non-tumor improved familiar though.

The most powerful benefit is taking the protector archetype for your tumor familiar.

[Grandlounge]

1) No

2) This is the conclusion I came to

Quote:

As a standard action, the alchemist can have the tumor detach itself from his body as a separate creature vaguely resembling a kind of animal suitable for a familiar (bat, cat, and so on) and move about as if it were an independent creature.

The emphasized portion indicates it is never it's own creature. It also follow the phrase "as a standard action, the alchemist can have the tumor detach" implying that it gets to act as an independent creature subsequent to the detachment. *see for counterpoint

3) Not likely, as there is no other case in the game of an at will changeable familair and as you said two powerful for one discovery.

4) Core rulebook faq says the improved familiars do not qualify for improved familiar.

*it has been explained to me that people read this as, once it has detected it acts as an independent creature and that is a permanent state that is invoked and unchanged once in is detached. **see follow up follow up.

**But, that then creates the follow up what if it has never detached?

*** it is in the same sentence as picking an animal but that is a parenthetical thought and the meat of picking a familiar is in different sentence.

[Melkiador]

Technically, the discovery grants nothing until you first detach your tumor. I don't find this to be too problematic.

[Grandlounge]

Seeing die for your master I have changed my opinion. Good point @Melkiador

[Melkiador]

There's also the part where the tumor couldn't benefit from fast healing while attached if it wasn't still a creature.

[SamaelTheOdd]

Okie dokie ^-^

[blahpers]

SamaelTheOdd wrote:

Can you take the tumor familiar discovery multiple times?

Does a tumor familiar still count as a different being when attached?
Is your tumor familiar a new shape whenever it detaches?*cough*overpowered*cough*
This one may spark up a bit of an argument, but does a Tumor Familiar qualify for the improved familiar feat?

1. No. Ability choices such as feats, rogue talents, and discoveries that can be taken multiple times will always say so.

2. Yes. Otherwise, it wouldn't have hit points when attached, so fast healing 5 wouldn't make much sense. Also, it can act as your familiar when attached--how can something that isn't a creature act as your familiar?
3. Since it provides a skill bonus when attached, and different forms offer different skill bonuses, it seems clear that you're supposed to pick a form and stick with it.
4. No. This FAQ specifically disallows it. If you're the GM, though, you should totally allow it.

[Nixitur]

_Ozy_ wrote:

Monkey familiar + poisoner's gloves = 2 free infusions at the start of combat

Protector archetype + attached (fast healing) = doubles your hit points (kinda)

I prefer Compsognathus, Greensting Scorpion, Hare or Dodo. Just give 'em Extra Item Slot instead of their one feat and you basically get Improved Initiative for free and can still do the Poisoner's Gloves shenanigans. Sure, that'll reduce their attack roll (by 3 for the dinosaur), but they get your BAB and it goes against touch AC , so it'll probably still be fine.

And yes, Protector is by far the best archetype for a Tumor Familiar.

[Louise Bishop]

My Favorite on an Alchemist is a Protector TUmor Hedgehog for the +2 will saves. Being your worst save. Pair it up with Iron will for +4 and you can end up with a decent will save.